Are you more or less likely to vote FF/Green after the Budget?

nesf

Well?

PeakOutput

i am more likely to but im still not going to

old boy

cabinet ministers get a 5% deduction, as an invilaid on a pension i get a 4.1% cut, the cabinet minister has a nice expenses claim i dont, i am not cribbing about having to do my bit for my country, but why the hell cannot a cabinet minister do the same, luckily we do not have kids depending on us, people on low incomes with kids, both working and on welfare, they definitley have been denobbled without anistethic,

Max Power1

No, but I wouldn't have voted for them regardless of what they did

brianthebard

In fairness the Green Party and FF are still separate parties, shouldn't they be treated as such? I would never vote FF before or after yesterday, but I could still possibly vote Green under certain circumstances.

murphaph

I'll be honest. I hate FF and what they've done to the country, but would Gilmore (no chance) or Kenny (not sure) have made the cuts required yesterday?

I doubt it tbh. Would likely still not vote for FF with current front bench though. Coughlan (useless) and Cowen (even more useless) would have to go first. I think Lenihan would make a better Taoiseach in these tough times as Gilmore or Kenny, but he's in FF!

FF really need a kick in the head for what the've done and they probably will lose the next election anyway, but I hope the incoming lot don't think we're punishing FF for a tough set of budgets, instead of punishing them for ruining the boom in the first place-they might misinterpret it and start public sector and welfare increases straight away! I'd be very wary of Labour getting into power with any coalition partner. Perhaps if FG ditch Kenny before the next election I'll go with them.

We have to be pragmatic though. If FF show more determination (esp. Lenihan) and continue to push through pay cuts and major public sector reform and redundancies where necessary, then we should return them to power in the absence of a credible alternative IMO. Yuck! Best bet is for the ordinary private sector PAYE worker to join the party in my sig and do what's right for Ireland.

Rookster

murphaph wrote: »

I'll be honest. I hate FF and what they've done to the country, but would Gilmore (no chance) or Kenny (not sure) have made the cuts required yesterday?

I doubt it tbh. Would likely still not vote for FF with current front bench though. Coughlan (useless) and Cowen (even more useless) would have to go first. I think Lenihan would make a better Taoiseach in these tough times as Gilmore or Kenny, but he's in FF!

FF really need a kick in the head for what the've done and they probably will lose the next election anyway, but I hope the incoming lot don't think we're punishing FF for a tough set of budgets, instead of punishing them for ruining the boom in the first place-they might misinterpret it and start public sector and welfare increases straight away! I'd be very wary of Labour getting into power with any coalition partner. Perhaps if FG ditch Kenny before the next election I'll go with them.

We have to be pragmatic though. If FF show more determination (esp. Lenihan) and continue to push through pay cuts and major public sector reform and redundancies where necessary, then we should return them to power in the absence of a credible alternative IMO. Yuck! Best bet is for the ordinary private sector PAYE worker to join the party in my sig and do what's right for Ireland.

Spot on. I agree totally with you.I was very disappointed by FG/Lab response to the budget. They seem to all over the place with their policies to such an extent that I don't no where they stand on anything.FG were looking for Public Sector paycuts and when FF delivers they disagree with it. I would doubt very much if FG/Lab would get an effective budget through.I was never going to vote FF again in my life but now I am not so sure.

hinault

I've never voted FF and probably never will.

I have never voted for the Greens either.

Klingon Hamlet

Fianna FAIL

bijapos

Will still give Greens 1 so long as there is no alternative.

Will still put FF at the bottom of the ballot paper, FG just above it and fill the rest in whatever way.

Idbatterim

Fianna Fail did exactly what any other party in goverment would have done during the boom! now atleast they have implemented some tough decisions! would the other parties do this? probably not! Id only consider voting for them because the other parties, even out of power are so useless!

gandalf

Idbatterim wrote: »

Fianna Fail did exactly what any other party in goverment would have done during the boom! now atleast they have implemented some tough decisions! would the other parties do this? probably not! Id only consider voting for them because the other parties, even out of power are so useless!

I don't think that is the case, their "special relationship" with their developer donors blinded them and even made them believe that the bubble would continue without correction. I do not think the other parties would have gone two feet in as much as they did.

They also appeased the unions without ensuring the reforms that were and are needed were delivered. Basically they allowed the snake oil salesmen of ICTU to convince them to pay up front for goods that were never delivered. Its kind of ironic as they (FF) were snake oil salesmen themselves. Unfortunately we the taxpayers have lost out in a PS that is still using outdated work practices and the members of that service having to take a cut in their wages.

I am extremely surprised at the 25% number of people saying they would vote them in again because of the budget. All they are doing is a minor correction because of the monumental clusterf*** that they themselves have caused.

Sandwich

Are the "No, but I wouldn't have voted for them regardless of what they did." voters people who:
- vote unthinkingly for one party out of tradition/habit/blind support
- make no assessment of what a govt is actually doing but are always just against whatever govt is in power
- want revenge on someone, whether it would harm recovery or not
- other ?

efb

FG without Lab?
Can't abide labour and their policies or lack thereof

gandalf

Sandwich wrote: »

Are the "No, but I wouldn't have voted for them regardless of what they did." voters people who:
- vote unthinkingly for one party out of tradition/habit/blind support
- make no assessment of what a govt is actually doing but are always just against whatever govt is in power
- want revenge on someone, whether it would harm recovery or not
- other ?

I am one of those. This is the third time that FF have broken the bank but it looks like it may the first time that they have to try and fix the mess they made.

I do not believe they are the right material to govern this country. They are tainted by the excess of the celtic tiger and I still remember that crook Haughey telling people to tighten their belts when he was living it large.

I was a Labour supporter and I was a member of the party as well. They have turned me against them with their blind support of the unions over the last few weeks. I will not be voting for them again until the sever the links with the unions formally and remove people of the calibre of Jack O'Connor from their central Committee.

holdfast

I come from a FF family supported them all my life. Never again, they are crooked and too likely to look after themselves or developers, tax exiles or other ready to stump up. I can’t see a change in the future which really depresses me. The whole lot are Val Falvy TD in real life. We won’t learn from the lessons of given stupid tax incentives, allowing TD`s take back hander’s, no jail white collar criminals and bankers think we are there to bail them out every decade when they made a mess of it. It’s not the recession that get me it’s we will never change. Anyone voting for FF really needs to see the wood from the trees, not saying they are the only one but they are the biggest chancers of them all.

Rujib1

Was definitely going to vote FG / Lab even though I cannot stand either Gilmore or Kenny.
However, we sadly need the policies of the current government and there is not a chance in hell FG / Lab could deliver such policies.

gandalf

To be honest the whole Political system needs to be overhauled.

We need to cut out parochial politics from the national platform for good and remove Gombeen politicians like Jackie Healy Rae, Michael Lowry and company from the scene.

I would suggest a list system where parties fill whatever seats they get in the elections from a set list. Taking the whole personality incentive from politics. We also need to take at least one third of the Dail seats away and abolish the Seanad.

the_syco

Too early to tell what effect that the budget has on me.

As for FG, and their plan of sacking 10,000 public sector people... I wonder how they'd sack them, and how much money would have to be paid to each of the 10,000 people?

holdfast

I agree with Gandalf the whole lot need to be given their march orders. We need some new blood, not the son of some thick skinned gobeen

sold

old boy wrote: »

cabinet ministers get a 5% deduction, as an invilaid on a pension i get a 4.1% cut, the cabinet minister has a nice expenses claim i dont, i am not cribbing about having to do my bit for my country, but why the hell cannot a cabinet minister do the same, luckily we do not have kids depending on us, people on low incomes with kids, both working and on welfare, they definitley have been denobbled without anistethic,

I'm not going to compare Cabinet minuster with Invalid, but the cut in 2009 is 15% not 5% total in 2009 (just to set record straight)

Rujib1

Rujib1 wrote: »

Was definitely going to vote FG / Lab even though I cannot stand either Gilmore or Kenny.
However, we sadly need the policies of the current government and there is not a chance in hell FG / Lab could deliver such policies.

Sadly, I'm almost in the same boat.

I never have voted for FF, but tbh it seems that now FG/Lab have resorted to FF's old routine of promising people the sun, moon and stars when we can't afford any of it. At least FF are making tough decisions (Well we need tougher decisions tbh) right now and are attempting clean up the mess they, along with *us* got the country into.

Now if they'd only taken on the banks instead of lumping NAMA on us they would have had me at 'hello'..

irish_bob

efb wrote: »

FG without Lab?
Can't abide labour and their policies or lack thereof

providing lennehan replaces cowen as taoiseach before the next election , then i will vote for fianna fail next time round as i dont believe fine gael can secure an overall majority while enda kenny is leader and keeping labour out of goverment is more important to me than getting rid of fianna fail

Rb

I will never, ever, ever give the greens even the sight of a vote from me ever, ever again after they showed their true, spineless colours during the year.

FF definitely moved up a notch or two for me, I wouldn't give them number 1 but I'd certainly consider putting them above Labour, Sinn Fein and the rest.

murphaph

gandalf wrote: »

I would suggest a list system where parties fill whatever seats they get in the elections from a set list. Taking the whole personality incentive from politics. We also need to take at least one third of the Dail seats away and abolish the Seanad.

The List system and a reduction in TDs to around 100 (same as in NZ I believe) is advocated by Amhrain Nua for precisely this purpose. I'm a strong supporter of the party for that reason alone. It really is important for the Dail to grow up and mature into a proper national legislature. That won't happen so long as we maintain PRSTV IMO and so long as it doesn't happen then everything else is ignoring the elephant in the room.

CityCentreMan

In overall terms I think that Brian Lenihan did a fairly good job with the budget. Govt expenditure has to be reduced and frankly I am surprised that he had the bottle to see it thru.

That said, I think that it is Brian Cowan's natural inclination to back down to the unions and it was only the strength of the public reaction against the "12 days for christmas " proposal that stopped a climbdown.

I wish that we had a proper leader who:
a) could inspire us as a country;
b) could set out a credible vision for the future that we would all aspire to achieve and ;
c) get us all working together in the right direction.

Brian Cowan does not inspire me

Unfortunately neither does Enda Kenny and Eamon Gilmore is worse than the other two.

I wonder if we could persuade Declan Kidney to enter politics.

thebman

NAMA so no won't vote for them. If it turns out to be an amazing success I might :pac:

nkay1985

I can't see myself ever voting for them but yesterday is one of the first things I've ever seen from that would help them get my vote. I've always seen them as too weak to make any real decisions but yesterday they made a decision that had to be made and finally stood up to the unions. There's so much badness in their past that I don't think I'll ever vote for them but yesterday was definitely a positive.

Sand

Nope - I wont vote for either FF or the Greens, I'll be voting for FG instead. We might as well declare a monarchy if Fianna Fail arent voted out at the next election. I know the opposition are lousy, terrible, inept and craven, but for the love of christ, lets given their chance to be just as terrible as Fianna Fail. Just vote FG, not Labour.

Lenihan is not doing anything on the fiscal issues that he is not being *forced* to do. He has stupidly and imorally bailed out the banks with his inept guarantee and the theft of taxpayer cash in this corrupt NAMA deal is breathtaking. He has poured billions into financial blackholes like Anglo Irish, AIB and Bank of Ireland. Fianna Fail have learned nothing. And worse, the Greens when given the opportunity to voice their opinion when it was most influential sold out this country for the price of a few cycle lanes.

They could have led this country - they could have slashed political rates of pay, expenses. The richer amongst them could have volunteered to work for free or nominal sums ( even evil scum like some bank CEOs are working pro bono to demonstrate some leadership).

They deserve to be wiped out electorally. Both of them. Utterly. The elections in 2012 need to be the end of the line for Greena Fail.

Yes, they could have collapsed in the face of the unions - but lets be clear, it doesnt take much moral backbone to sit across a table from characters like Jack O Connor and say "Jack - theres no ****ing money. Really. None. Nada. Zero. Nothing. No ****ing money." Especially when the script is being read to you by the ECB/bond markets, with a loaded gun held to your head. When the public is practically spitting in rage when another feckless surrender is leaked with breathless excitement.

Now if only a fiscally disciplined, economically and socially liberal party would arise...

catat2ee

A lot of people applauding yesterday's decisive action. Why? These are some of the highest paid politicians in the world and they can't even nod towards a stimulus package.. Eamon Ryan trumpeting our burgeoning "smart economy" doesn't count, though he does seem to be well on top of the roll out of dial up! Also, if it's seen as fair game to cut sub 30k public sector workers and social welfare recipients then surely pensioners should have been included also... though hang on, pensioners have proven themselves to be highly effective protesters already... Lenihan and his "TOUGH DECISIONS" indeed. Hip hip... ah **** it

thebman

nkay1985 wrote: »

I can't see myself ever voting for them but yesterday is one of the first things I've ever seen from that would help them get my vote. I've always seen them as too weak to make any real decisions but yesterday they made a decision that had to be made and finally stood up to the unions. There's so much badness in their past that I don't think I'll ever vote for them but yesterday was definitely a positive.

Same, its one of the few things I can put down in their positive pile although its more than negated by their policies requiring it in the first place.