Grand Canal Theatre

westtip

Has anyone been to this venue, the website is pretty poor and doesn't give any auditorium shots - it seats 2100.

Wonder what it would be like for opera?

http://www.grandcanaltheatre.ie/venueguide/index.php

Anyone been there give a view on it please!

mambo

Try google image search for images
http://images.google.ie/images?rlz=1C1GGLS_enIE291IE304&sourceid=chrome&q=grand%20canal%20theatre&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi

e.g. some at
http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=6461&page=3
including interior shot

westtip

Looks good -should be the new home of Opera Ireland, the Gaeity is a shambles for opera, the acoustic is crap.

Pity their website doesn't have better shots from within the interior - they have missed out on that one.

Have I missed out on something or has the opening of this venue been very low key?

mambo

westtip wrote: »

Have I missed out on something or has the opening of this venue been very low key?

Er, it doesn't open until March 2010.
http://www.grandcanaltheatre.ie/venueguide/whats_on.php

westtip

Fair enough I guess it is the advertising for the ballet that made me look at the site. Should be good though. I hope OI move there.

The Mad Hatter

I'm off to see Derren Brown there in April. Will let ye all know what it's like afterwards.

TimmyTarmac

Looks nice from the photo. The acoustics will be the real test if it is to live or die for opera, concerts etc. I'm presuming it has a tower over the staging area for flying sets etc. Hard to see from that photo.

westtip

TimmyTarmac wrote: »

Looks nice from the photo. The acoustics will be the real test if it is to live or die for opera, concerts etc. I'm presuming it has a tower over the staging area for flying sets etc. Hard to see from that photo.

Can't see them building a modern theatre without state of the art staging facilities and something as basic as a fly tower - anyway I hope that is the case.

westtip

TimmyTarmac wrote: »

Looks nice from the photo. The acoustics will be the real test if it is to live or die for opera, concerts etc. I'm presuming it has a tower over the staging area for flying sets etc. Hard to see from that photo.

Just looking at it again its hard to see from the photo what the orchestra pit is like too, although this may well answer the question!

http://www.e-architect.co.uk/dublin/jpgs/grand_canal_square_dublin_sdl151008_11.jpg

JonnyBlackrock

mambo wrote: »

Er, it doesn't open until March 2010.
http://www.grandcanaltheatre.ie/venueguide/whats_on.php

From their website it looks like they're going to turn it into yet another pop venue. Typical Irish approach - always go for the lowest common denominator. God forbid that anything should actually be challenging and stimulating.

JonnyBlackrock

JonnyBlackrock wrote: »

From their website it looks like they're going to turn it into yet another pop venue. Typical Irish approach - always go for the lowest common denominator. God forbid that anything should actually be challenging and stimulating.

Although I might take my kids to see Chitty Chitty Bang Bang next summer.

westtip

Jonny you must stop this opera snobbery attitude!!!! (joke please forgive me) and give them some credit they are opening the theatre with the ballet!

We are not going to get another new venue in Ireland and this one must pay for itself so it will have to have "more popular stuff" in it.

The house size (I think it is 2100), falls shy of being big enough for rock/pop concerts although it should attract the more acoustic end of rock/pop genre, but it won't compete with the Point as a large rock venue.

It is a general entertainment theatre! If you look at the venues Welsh National Opera play at - Birmingham Hippodrome, Southhampton Mayflower and their home Cardiff Millenium Theatre - they all cater for all sorts of entertainments.

I think from what I have seen of the photos and plans it would cater for opera very well.....

Lets be positive Jonny - a new theatre in Das Kapital capable of showing opera.

I think if a new Irish Opera comapny (see that thread) said we want to make this our Dublin venue - and guarentee houses for three nights of every year - the management would bite their hands off.

JonnyBlackrock

westtip wrote: »

It is a general entertainment theatre! If you look at the venues Welsh National Opera play at - Birmingham Hippodrome, Southhampton Mayflower and their home Cardiff Millenium Theatre - they all cater for all sorts of entertainments.

I think from what I have seen of the photos and plans it would cater for opera very well.....

Lets be positive Jonny - a new theatre in Das Kapital capable of showing opera.

Yes, I don't have a problem with general entertainment theatres, if they really do strive to show ALL kinds of entertainment. Opera along side musicals, popular music, ballads, stand-up, whatever, is just fine. And the GCT indeed mentioned opera in its initial publicity posters. It's just that I have a feeling that they won't have the guts to do "original" things like bringing over a full blown foreign opera company and will just stick with pop hasbeens like Don Maclean.

After all, look what happened at the Helix. They started out with very good intentions, but attendance at all their classical concerts was abysmal (I went there to hear the Bremen Chamber Orchestra, one of the best in Germany, with Sabine Meyer playing the clarinet. In lots of places people would have been banging on the doors and windows to get in, but the hall was about a quarter full), and now all they have there is You're a Star and all kinds of terrible rubbish, which is a shame because it really is an excellent concert hall, far superior to the NCH.

westtip

Agreed. i fear for the location of the grand canal theatre, but if the re-structuring of opera in ireland can be done properly - ie the Westtip plan, then there is no reason why this venue can't become the Dublin base of the new opera company!

PerriBlack

At 2100 seats, would Opera Ireland be able to fill the GCT. I was at Macbeth in the Gaiety recently and there was a lot of empty seats. Also, there appeared to be a lot of younger people on freebees - friends of the chorus?

westtip

PerriBlack wrote: »

At 2100 seats, would Opera Ireland be able to fill the GCT. I was at Macbeth in the Gaiety recently and there was a lot of empty seats. Also, there appeared to be a lot of younger people on freebees - friends of the chorus?

No Perri I don't think they could fill it with the current schedules they offer - and yes I agree with you about Macbeth. But Opera Ireland or whatever comes out of OI/OTC merger needs a fresh start - it needs (IMHO) to get away from the Gaiety which is still full of the ghosts of DGOS.

Macbeth was pretty dreadful and OI will not fill theatres with current standards in any event - which is why we do need change.

Under the plan I envisage for Opera the three Dublin seasons would be five nights of two operas doing a 3:2 ratio. Currently in the Gaiety they do two seasons of two operas and usually run eight nights with two operas 4 and 4 they got the mix completely wrong last time with Macbeth for 5 nights and Rheingold for 2. I predict the same problem next Spring with a 5:2 split on Gounods romeo and Juliette and Bellinis I Capuletti, the latter only gets a two night outing.

The capacity of the Gaiety, is just over 1300 for an eight night season thats 10,400 seats they are trying to sell, which actually surprise me!

a 5 night season in the Grand Canal is 5 x 2100 which comes at 10,500 seats almost the same - in a new theatre with we hope will have a better acoustic and stage facilities - therefore giving a better "grand opera" experience. It might be a push to do it three times a year - but it would take time to build the audience in a new venue, some people will stadfastly not leave the city centre. The cost in savings of putting on 5 nights as opposed to 8 nights should be considerable in terms of principal singers fees, orchestra fees etc, hang some numbers on this and it begins to make some sense.

Sandwich

It is a bit Spartan, but i had thought when it opened that there was an opportunity for the middle size theatre in the Helix. Was at a good Cenerentola there. Far from ideal, but better than most of the theatres OTC tours (toured?) to. Audience capacity was about right for opera in Dublin. Grand Canal Theatre just too big I fear.

Helix in financial difficulty I read somewhere lately.

westtip

Sandwich wrote: »

It is a bit Spartan, but i had thought when it opened that there was an opportunity for the middle size theatre in the Helix. Was at a good Cenerentola there. Far from ideal, but better than most of the theatres OTC tours (toured?) to. Audience capacity was about right for opera in Dublin. Grand Canal Theatre just too big I fear.

Helix in financial difficulty I read somewhere lately.

Yes OTC do go to some different venues - but the kind of chamber scale opera they put on is often suited to smaller venues - they go down really well in the small Hawkswell in Sligo, I certainly don't think OTC in their present structure would entertain the Grand Canal Theatre (lets call it the GCT!), but it looks like the only new venue we are going to get in Dublin with a decent stage facility. 2100 is a big theatre - and ENO struggle to fill the Colisieum in central London on most nights, so maybe I am being over optimistic - we do need to grab the bull by the horns though and maybe (just maybe) my idea of shorter OI seasons in Dublin at the larger venue might work.

Perhaps with some creative thinking like don't sell the upper tier at all unless sold out below might help with filling the stalls and circle....

They (OI) made a real blunder trying to put on 5 nights of Macbeth last month and I think they will come unstuck with 5 nights of Romeo and Juliette in Spring with many seats still available.

Is the Helix more a concert hall than theatre I must admit to never actually having made it there - I am not based in Dublin so its not always possible....

JonnyBlackrock

westtip wrote: »

ENO struggle to fill the Colisieum in central London on most nights,

The reason for that is not the size of the opera going population in London, it's that nearly all of their recent productions have been absolutely DIRE. They give total freedom to every weird director they can find, usually David Alden. A critic in the Sunday Times recently said about these directors that they treat operas as "background music on which to super-impose their ludicrous ideas", or something to that effect.

JonnyBlackrock

westtip wrote: »

Is the Helix more a concert hall than theatre I must admit to never actually having made it there - I am not based in Dublin so its not always possible....

The Helix have three halls, a concert hall (which is excellent), a theatre (which I've never been to) and some kind of "multi-purpose hall". www.thehelix.ie

PerriBlack

westtip wrote: »

No Perri I don't think they could fill it with the current schedules they offer - and yes I agree with you about Macbeth. But Opera Ireland or whatever comes out of OI/OTC merger needs a fresh start - it needs (IMHO) to get away from the Gaiety which is still full of the ghosts of DGOS.

Macbeth was pretty dreadful and OI will not fill theatres with current standards in any event - which is why we do need change.

Under the plan I envisage for Opera the three Dublin seasons would be five nights of two operas doing a 3:2 ratio. Currently in the Gaiety they do two seasons of two operas and usually run eight nights with two operas 4 and 4 they got the mix completely wrong last time with Macbeth for 5 nights and Rheingold for 2. I predict the same problem next Spring with a 5:2 split on Gounods romeo and Juliette and Bellinis I Capuletti, the latter only gets a two night outing.

The capacity of the Gaiety, is just over 1300 for an eight night season thats 10,400 seats they are trying to sell, which actually surprise me!

a 5 night season in the Grand Canal is 5 x 2100 which comes at 10,500 seats almost the same - in a new theatre with we hope will have a better acoustic and stage facilities - therefore giving a better "grand opera" experience. It might be a push to do it three times a year - but it would take time to build the audience in a new venue, some people will stadfastly not leave the city centre. The cost in savings of putting on 5 nights as opposed to 8 nights should be considerable in terms of principal singers fees, orchestra fees etc, hang some numbers on this and it begins to make some sense.

The plan for a reduced length OI (or National Opera Company) season but with the same number of seats, makes sense, provided that GCT acoustics are up to it, with out the dreaded 'acoustic enhancements'.

I'll post more comments on proposed new Opera seasons on the "New structure for opera in Ireland" thread.

westtip

JonnyBlackrock wrote: »

The reason for that is not the size of the opera going population in London, it's that nearly all of their recent productions have been absolutely DIRE. They give total freedom to every weird director they can find, usually David Alden. A critic in the Sunday Times recently said about these directors that they treat operas as "background music on which to super-impose their ludicrous ideas", or something to that effect.

I know they have gone down hill from the halycon days of Mark Elder in charge in the 1980s and early 1990s. They really used to have a great reputation.

Thanks for that information about the Helix, does Dublin really deserve it?

JonnyBlackrock

westtip wrote: »

I know they have gone down hill from the halycon days of Mark Elder in charge in the 1980s and early 1990s. They really used to have a great reputation.

They did indeed. I have seen some fantastic productions there, including the very famous Jonathan Miller Rigoletto.

westtip wrote: »

Thanks for that information about the Helix, does Dublin really deserve it?

That's a very good question.

Sandwich

JonnyBlackrock wrote: »

That's a very good question.

A good question alright, but only as an academic one. Irish opera going public is so sparse, that as our capital and only moderately sized metropolis, unfortunately Dublin is the only practical base.

westtip

sandwich I agree about Dublin being the base for a national opera company but it must be a base they can venture out of - otherwise it is just OI/DGOS all over again.

Dirigent

[not strictly classical but related to the thread topic]

I got a flyer in my letterbox in the last few days advertising a Chinese troupe due to perform in this new venue in March. I remember seeing some of these shows in Bejing some years ago, they were simply spectaclar. But needless to say, ticket prices in our Emerald Isle will be double they are anywhere else, as usual.

irishdub14

Grand Canal Theatre has just launched a new website this week. Its a pretty nice website, with loads of info!

www.grandcanaltheatre.ie

HELM

Hi,
Just wondering if anyone has been to Grand Canal Theatre since it opened on Thursday?
I am going to Swan Lake tomorrow night and am unsure about where to park. We really have to drive as coming from Drogheda but it's advised on all web sites to take public transport.
Any ideas on where we can park would be great, I am hoping there will be street parking near the venue so would appreciate any suggestions as to where might be the best spot.
Many thanks!

LikePlace

I was there last nite. Nice set up. Tho' I thought the ceilings in the atria very v low, and the roof balcony quite small.

I took some video of the atrium and main auditorium, showing the orchestra pit and balconies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk9q4YM_IM0

Grid.

irishdub14 wrote: »

Grand Canal Theatre has just launched a new website this week. Its a pretty nice website, with loads of info!

www.grandcanaltheatre.ie

Nice site but there doesn't seem to be any pics of the interior (bar one) that I could find!

Dirigent

HELM wrote: »

Any ideas on where we can park would be great, I am hoping there will be street parking near the venue so would appreciate any suggestions as to where might be the best spot.

I haven't been there yet, but on street parking should be available. You may have to hoof it for five or ten minutes, though. But make extra sure you're legal or the clampers will get ya!