What Sort of Life do the Complainers Lead?

Kintarō Hattori

I'm curious as to what sort of life those people who have been on television complaining about the budget lead. Apparently life is going to be extremely difficult for them, having to shop for budget food, second hand clothes, not taking foreign holidays etc.

At the height of the good times I was earning a modest 30k working in retail while my other half was earning about the same working for a bank. By all accounts we had a nice lifestyle, taking a foreign holiday or two, going to restaurants now and again, treating ourselves to luxuries such as nice clothes, electronics etc. We looked at buying a house or apartment in Ireland but agreed that the prices were ludicrous so with the money we saved we bought an apartment in Poland as a long term investment. Our mortgage is modest and it makes sense for us as the other half is Polish.

For varying reasons my lady left the bank and after about 8 months or unemployment she got another job. It wasn't exactly what she wanted so she went part time and used the rest of the time to study. She wasn't earning as much money as she was in the bank and I had taken a paycut at work as has been the norm in the private sector. Despite this we have still managed to save a significant amount of money for a deposit on a home here and while not what it once was our lifestyle is still pretty good.

Granted we don't have children but, if my lady had stayed working in the bank (it was her decision to leave) we would still be enjoying a high quality of life. Children wouldn't be a problem, the mortgage would be covered had we bought something and foreign holidays wouldn't be a struggle.


Our wages were modest so I am assuming that these people I see complaining are earning at least what we were and in alot of cases probably alot more. So what kind of lifestyle are they living that cutbacks in the budget are supposedly going to wreak havoc on their lives virtually forcing them onto the breadline?

KC JONES

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I'm curious as to what sort of life those people who have been on television complaining about the budget lead. Apparently life is going to be extremely difficult for them, having to shop for budget food, second hand clothes, not taking foreign holidays etc.

At the height of the good times I was earning a modest 30k working in retail while my other half was earniing about the same working for a bank. By all accounts we had a nice lifestyle, taking a foreign holiday or two, going to restaurants now and again, treating ourselves to luxuries such as nice clothes, electronics etc. We looked at buying a house or apartment in Ireland but agreed that the prices were ludicrous so with the money we saved we bought an apartment in Poland as a log term investment. Our mortage is modest and it makes sense for us as the other half is Polish.

For varying reasons my lady left the bank an after about 8 months or unemployment she got another job. It wasn't exactly what she wanted so she went part time and used the rest of the time to study. She wasn't earning as much money as she was in the bank and I had taken a paycut at work as has been the norm in the private sector. Despite this we have still managed to save a significant amount of money for a deposit on a home here and while not what it once was our lifestyle is still pretty good.

Granted we don't have children but, if my lady had stayed working in the bank (it was her decision to leave) we would still be enjoying a high quality of life. Children wouldn't be a problem, the mortage would be covered had we bought something and foreign holidays wouldn't be a struggle.


Our wages were modest so I am assuming that these people I see complaining are earning at least what we were and in alot of cases probably alot more. So what kind of lifestyle are they living that cutbacks in the budget are supposedly going to wreak havoc on their lives virtually forcing them onto the breadline?

Disabled who do not make 30/60K between them and partner?

dan_d

God knows. They weren't saving , you see and well, when you can't have at least 3 holidays a year, you're really deprived.
Sarcasm aside, I don't know. I'd wonder how many of these people are actually on the breadline, and how many are just upset because they can only buy 1 bottle of wine a week instead of 2. Or they've to shop in Dunnes instead of BT.
Don't know. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

jake59

dan_d wrote: »

God knows. They weren't saving , you see and well, when you can't have at least 3 holidays a year, you're really deprived.
Sarcasm aside, I don't know. I'd wonder how many of these people are actually on the breadline, and how many are just upset because they can only buy 1 bottle of wine a week instead of 2. Or they've to shop in Dunnes instead of BT.
Don't know. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

or they have a huge amount of personal debt ? who knows? everyone's situation is different and for anyone looking in its really just guesswork isn't it?!

ParkRunner

I think it's partially a fear of the uncertainty ahead. People have money saved up but they are just too afraid to spend it, simple as.

seclachi

Its people from all walks, so its really hard to capture I guess. I`m in a similar situation to you, no kids, no mortgage, so life is pretty darn comfortable. That probably biases me a bit, because 30k seems like a decent wage to me I wonder why somebody would complain. But if you add kids & and a mortgage into the mix it because really difficult to cover in such an expensive country.

I did see something on the news that made my blood boil though, a 18 year old on the dole living at home with no dependants giving out about the cut. I dont know his circumstances, maybe he had to get his own food or pay a rent to his parents, but I feel in that kind of situation its more than likely he just pisses away most of it, I know I would have if I was 18 and got the dole, when I was that age I got 100 euro a month off the parents (for farm labouring), which was a small fortune to me at the time, but I still had to be careful how I spent it. Its just such a waste of money we will be paying off for years to come .

irish_bob

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I'm curious as to what sort of life those people who have been on television complaining about the budget lead. Apparently life is going to be extremely difficult for them, having to shop for budget food, second hand clothes, not taking foreign holidays etc.

At the height of the good times I was earning a modest 30k working in retail while my other half was earniing about the same working for a bank. By all accounts we had a nice lifestyle, taking a foreign holiday or two, going to restaurants now and again, treating ourselves to luxuries such as nice clothes, electronics etc. We looked at buying a house or apartment in Ireland but agreed that the prices were ludicrous so with the money we saved we bought an apartment in Poland as a log term investment. Our mortage is modest and it makes sense for us as the other half is Polish.

For varying reasons my lady left the bank an after about 8 months or unemployment she got another job. It wasn't exactly what she wanted so she went part time and used the rest of the time to study. She wasn't earning as much money as she was in the bank and I had taken a paycut at work as has been the norm in the private sector. Despite this we have still managed to save a significant amount of money for a deposit on a home here and while not what it once was our lifestyle is still pretty good.

Granted we don't have children but, if my lady had stayed working in the bank (it was her decision to leave) we would still be enjoying a high quality of life. Children wouldn't be a problem, the mortage would be covered had we bought something and foreign holidays wouldn't be a struggle.


Our wages were modest so I am assuming that these people I see complaining are earning at least what we were and in alot of cases probably alot more. So what kind of lifestyle are they living that cutbacks in the budget are supposedly going to wreak havoc on their lives virtually forcing them onto the breadline?

you and your other half are part of the silent majority , the others you speak of are part of the noisy minority , in the eyes of the media , people like you are boring , the moaners on the other hand are ratings gold

Dr Kamikazi

Let me see...
Nice house in an estate, paid about 400k for it, now worth 200k. Everything in the house bought in one go brand spanking new. Entire house finished professionally by the most expensive tradesmen available. Marble tiles, oak floors. Spent several grand on curtains alone. Still looks cheap and nasty. Now stuffed full of electronic garbage from Argos by the kids.
50 inch flat screen plus cinema system.
Two cars, one SUV, one people carrier (08 and 07), 2.5 kids, everything bought for them brand spanking new.
Crèche fees, childminders (so they can go out a few times a week to a nice restaurant).
Hired limos and entertainment for kids communion and every birthday party.
Trips abroad: A few days in Paris for Valentines, 2 weeks on the beach (nothing as vulgar as Spain, we're talking Asia or Caribbean here) in summer, skiing over Xmas and one or two more weekends away in various destinations.
No shopping in Aldi or Lidl EVER.
Maybe bought some land somewhere so could keep horses for the kids, maybe holiday apartment somewhere nice.
And just like P Flynn, you will notice that the 110k combined income doesn't cover it anymore.
And just like P Flynn, instead of cutting down, you'll go for more a be damned anyone who gets in your way.

cson

I think many who complain are complaining due to the fact that they won't be able to maintain their Celtic Tiger standard of living and will have to slum in their eyes. Reality has pierced their bubble of decadance and they'll always be the ones to complain loudest when it does.

aurelius79

How about the family on 40k with three kids who had cash, credit, and 100% mortgages thrown at them by the banks during good years and now have massive mortgage and credit card bills to pay or they lose their house and car and everything else.

With the debt they were barely scraping by and now they're making less money and paying more for petrol and other things. Now one of them has lost their job so the family is only on 20k with the same debts and cost of living.

Maybe it's those people who are complaining?

hinault

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I'm curious as to what sort of life those people who have been on television complaining about the budget lead. Apparently life is going to be extremely difficult for them, having to shop for budget food, second hand clothes, not taking foreign holidays etc.

At the height of the good times I was earning a modest 30k working in retail while my other half was earniing about the same working for a bank. By all accounts we had a nice lifestyle, taking a foreign holiday or two, going to restaurants now and again, treating ourselves to luxuries such as nice clothes, electronics etc. We looked at buying a house or apartment in Ireland but agreed that the prices were ludicrous so with the money we saved we bought an apartment in Poland as a log term investment. Our mortage is modest and it makes sense for us as the other half is Polish.

For varying reasons my lady left the bank an after about 8 months or unemployment she got another job. It wasn't exactly what she wanted so she went part time and used the rest of the time to study. She wasn't earning as much money as she was in the bank and I had taken a paycut at work as has been the norm in the private sector. Despite this we have still managed to save a significant amount of money for a deposit on a home here and while not what it once was our lifestyle is still pretty good.

Granted we don't have children but, if my lady had stayed working in the bank (it was her decision to leave) we would still be enjoying a high quality of life. Children wouldn't be a problem, the mortage would be covered had we bought something and foreign holidays wouldn't be a struggle.


Our wages were modest so I am assuming that these people I see complaining are earning at least what we were and in alot of cases probably alot more. So what kind of lifestyle are they living that cutbacks in the budget are supposedly going to wreak havoc on their lives virtually forcing them onto the breadline?

Depends who you are referring to, when you say "the people on the television".


Many people in this country are dependent upon social welfare payments to make ends meet.
Old age pensioners, people who cannot work through serious medical conditions, physically and mentally disabled.
If it's these people on the television that you have a problem with - tough.
Genuine disadvantaged people living in a modern State likes ours, in those conditions, should be looked after.
That's what this country was founded upon.
Perhaps this doesn't apply in your country - but it applies here.


However, if you are referring "to the people on the television" who are professional talking heads, complaining about their lot - you're right they have little to be complaining about.

KC JONES

I was visiting a hospital yesterday and saw a nurse come out and get into one of those big truck like vehicles. i am not sure the term it has a 4 door at front like an suv but the back is open like a truck. No INO poverty there it seems

Kintarō Hattori

aurelius79 wrote: »

How about the family on 40k with three kids who had cash, credit, and 100% mortgages thrown at them by the banks during good years and now have massive mortgage and credit card bills to pay or they lose their house and car and everything else.

With the debt they were barely scraping by and now they're making less money and paying more for petrol and other things. Now one of them has lost their job so the family is only on 20k with the same debts and cost of living.

Maybe it's those people who are complaining?

A 100% mortage is ALWAYS a bad idea and when the bank is 'throwing' things at you, you really need to stop and ask yourself why. If they were greedy or didn't think things through then it's hard to have sympathy for those folk. As I said a few years back we considered buying a place here but the prices were simply insane. They weren't worth the asking price. We stood back, put our money elsewhere and are biding our time.

seclachi wrote: »

Its people from all walks, so its really hard to capture I guess. I`m in a similar situation to you, no kids, no mortgage, so life is pretty darn comfortable. That probably biases me a bit, because 30k seems like a decent wage to me I wonder why somebody would complain. But if you add kids & and a mortgage into the mix it because really difficult to cover in such an expensive country.

We enquired a few months ago about getting a mortage for a house about 5 minutes away from where we are currently renting. In that case the mortage would actually have been cheaper than renting.

If it was just 30k coming in yes it would be virtually impossible to have a high quality of life and cover the bills but with a 60k combined income it would be more than enough to have the lifestyle and kids.

cson

aurelius79 wrote: »

How about the family on 40k with three kids who had cash, credit, and 100% mortgages thrown at them by the banks during good years and now have massive mortgage and credit card bills to pay or they lose their house and car and everything else.

My opinion is harsh but to be honest if you got yourself in those circumstances you deserve to lose everything and shouldn't complain.


Thrown at them? Then they should bathe in the mess it brought them, they didn't have to catch it to continue with your analogy. Theres a certain something called responsibility. Adults are expected to have some notion of it, it's not children they were offering mortgages to.

ixoy

Yeah I wonder that too at times. I'm renting but not an excessively cheap price and I'm saving 30% or so of my monthly wages and am still able to afford my holidays, some meals out, et cetera. My wage is not all that good (not relative to my experience) and yet I'm not close to even struggling.

Is it just that I'm prudent with my finances or did that many people really splash out during the last few years (and are now asking me and others like me to help them clean up)?

cbreeze

I was looking at interviews on tv with people who have been hit hard by the budget and the economic downturn. When you look at their surroundings it is very hard to understand, because they look quite prosperous. Examples:
A young single public sector worker with no kids in an apartment who owns a dishwasher
A family with a very nicely decorated home and furniture that looks quite good
People with great big christmas trees twinkling away in the background while being interviewed by the sympathetic reporter.

They all look to have a good standard of living, could even own cars, but they did not film those.

Kintarō Hattori

cbreeze wrote: »

...A young single public sector worker with no kids in an apartment who owns a ...

I think I saw her a while back, was she a physiotherapist? If it was, she was complaining that she bought an apartment at the height of the boom and now had a big mortgage.

aurelius79

cson wrote: »

My opinion is harsh but to be honest if you got yourself in those circumstances you deserve to lose everything and shouldn't complain.


Thrown at them? Then they should bathe in the mess it brought them, they didn't have to catch it to continue with your analogy. Theres a certain something called responsibility. Adults are expected to have some notion of it, it's not children they were offering mortgages to.

First, I'm single with no kids and I've never taken out a loan for anything and never owned a credit card. I've also never made more than 20k in my life but that's besides the point.

These people I speak of were told time and time again how safe it was to borrow money because Ireland's economy was built on a solid foundation and would continue indefinitely. The truth of the matter was that Ireland's economy was being built on foreign investment, ECB loans, and foreign labor and the government knew this! Yet they still lied to the people of Ireland and squandered any real money we were making for the country.

starbelgrade

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Our wages were modest so I am assuming that these people I see complaining are earning at least what we were and in alot of cases probably alot more. So what kind of lifestyle are they living that cutbacks in the budget are supposedly going to wreak havoc on their lives virtually forcing them onto the breadline?

You are making BIG assumptions there. Yes some people who are complaining are doing so because they can't have the luxuries they once had, some are complaining because they just like complaining, but some are also complaining because they are genuinely on the breadline.

You seem to be fairing pretty well, by your own admission, but you can't assume that there are not some people facing very hard times who were not earning good or even reasonable salaries before the recession.

The_Honeybadger

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I think I saw her a while back, was she a physiotherapist? If it was, she was complaining that she bought an apartment at the height of the boom and now had a big mortgage.

Yup and earning 55k if you don't mind! I was earning close to that until the end of 2008 and was able to save plenty, while living very comfortably (granted I had no mortgage but rent was 700 pm). I honestly have no idea what these people spend so much on. I now have two kids so I know how expensive that can be and will probably have a mortgage eventually so life will get tougher, but a young single person on 30k+ who says they will be on the breadline after this really needs a dose of reality. All it means for them is maybe one night out less per month or something.

Kintarō Hattori

starbelgrade wrote: »

...You seem to be fairing pretty well, by your own admission, but you can't assume that there are not some people facing very hard times who were not earning good or even reasonable salaries before the recession.

I would never assume that everyone has it rosey and I know that some people are genuinely struggling. I'm just curious as to how many of the whingers really are going to struggle and why.

jimmycrackcorm

aurelius79 wrote: »

How about the family on 40k with three kids who stupidly abdicated all personal financial responsibliity during good years and now have massive mortgage and credit card bills to pay or they lose their house and car and everything else.

With the debt they were barely scraping by and now they're making less money and paying more for petrol and other things. Now one of them has lost their job so the family is only on 20k with the same debts and cost of living.

Maybe it's those people who are complaining?

FYP

starbelgrade

cbreeze wrote: »

A young single public sector worker with no kids in an apartment who owns a dishwasher

You can buy a dishwasher for €300.

cbreeze wrote: »

A family with a very nicely decorated home and furniture that looks quite good

You can decorate a home quite cheaply & tastefully if you shop around.

cbreeze wrote: »

People with great big christmas trees twinkling away in the background while being interviewed by the sympathetic reporter.

You can buy a Christmas tree & lights for €100 that will last you 20 years.

cbreeze wrote: »

I was looking at interviews on tv with people who have been hit hard by the budget and the economic downturn. When you look at their surroundings it is very hard to understand, because they look quite prosperous.

You can sit on your armchair & make judgements on people you know little about, based on soundbites fed from the media through your televison.

cbreeze wrote: »

They all look to have a good standard of living, could even own cars, but they did not film those.

They usually leave that kind of thing to the likes of MTV Cribs.

starbelgrade

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I would never assume that everyone has it rosey and I know that some people are genuinely struggling. I'm just curious as to how many of the whingers really are going to struggle and why.

If you know that some people are genuinely struggling and it really matters to you as to how many of the whingers are genuine, then why not head down to your local St.Vincent De Paul centre to get a better idea of the whole picture?

It's easy to post a thread about how you managed to avoid the hardship & keep afloat, but not so to see the real hardship that some are facing, or the reasons why.

starbelgrade

starbelgrade wrote: »

If you know that some people are genuinely struggling and it really matters to you as to how many of the whingers are genuine, then why not head down to your local St.Vincent De Paul centre to get a better idea of the whole picture?

It's easy to post a thread about how you managed to avoid the hardship & keep afloat, but not so to see the real hardship that some are facing, or the reasons why.

I've friends that worked for SVDP. They left because they got sick of walking into houses where the parents would be locked, with smokes in their hands complaining that they can't afford the heating bill.

That said, there were some genuine cases, but from the sounds of it the majority were just irresponsible with their money and turned on the auld "Oh, poor me" routine.

DERICKOO

Iv just left a friend who survives on €197 per week he is unable to work.

I call on him to help with daily essentials shopping news chat.:pac:

What he has said to me truly amazes me :P.
This is word for word.:pac:
We all have to take the blunt, there may be people who would prefer we went back in our hole and hide so that they cannot see us, they live in there own world of spender and opulence we are there subservient serfs, have you not listened to there higher authority there superiority over there subservient employees mostly in the public service this he said is where most of our problems lye.:cool:
Especially in the hospital and legal side it is what they want that is what the politicians will listen to.:mad:
I can except bankers made greedy mistakes with bonuses and commission payments is now the time for reason the time to see where they have gone wrong or is the greed so overwhelming it controls the individual.:p


I might be on disability but i am not dead.:mad:
This guy was a PUBLIC EMPLOYEE.

My answer
I guess it is time to take the blunt NOW. Next time we have an election we can have a convincing election.:eek:

Inspector Coptoor

This is the kind of thing that gets to me.
I was in college from 2001-2007 getting a degree in Biochemistry and PGCE (H.Dip equivalent) in education. I started working in September 2007 as a sub teacher and subbed for 2 years all around the country and went unpaid for my summer "holidays" which are effectively enforced unemployment if you're a sub teacher.

I was "lucky" enough to get a one year contract this year so have some security until aug 31st of 2010. the contract will not be renewed and there are NO permanent jobs out there. there is this HUGE misconception out there that every teacher has a permanent job when it's simply not the case.

On top of that, we are teaching in bigger classes, with less resources and with no promotion prospects as A and B posts cannot be applied for due to the moritroium.

My current gross salary is 44,500 and i'm going to lose 5.8% percent of that from Jan 1st after already taking 11.5% of cuts in the last year.
my net salary.
I'll probably clear 30,000 net this year out of that 44,500.
last year it would have been an awful lot more.

at the moment, im down 225 euro a fortnight on my net wages from this time last year. that will turn to being down 300 euro a week from Jan 1st.

Don't get me wrong, I'll still have enough to get by and im lucky that i'm only 26 and dont have a mortgage, i'm lucky that i live in the west of ireland with rent of 250 a month (although i pay about 400 a month in petrol costs going to and from work), but 300 a fortnight is a substantial amount of money. that would have paid for my petrol or gone into savings for a deposit on a house sometime down the line.

How are these cuts going to affect me?
as people have already outlined, I've had to begin shopping in Lidl/Aldi and buying tesco brand products. I can't afford to change my car (fairly modest 03 corrolla). I'll have to take on more work next year, i.e. correcting mock exams, supervising state exams and correcting state exams, (all subject to application and approval, and believe me, they will all be highly competitive from now on you can be sure) things i wouldnt have done before.

Basically, and forgive me if this sounds like i'm throwing my toys out of the pram, my quality of life has been dramatically altered. I dont have the disposable income to do all the things i want to do anymore and quite frankly, i dont like it.

My final point on this would be that if more and more cuts keep coming in future budgets and mini budgets, teachers, and other public sector workers will begin to leave their jobs and leave the country.
No one enters teaching to be rich. I entered teaching because i love doing my job and because it used to be bring with it a comfortable salary where i could have a good work/life balance.
that doesnt exist anymore.

at the end of the day, if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. do you all really want talentless teachers in your classrooms in 5/10 years?


Aplogies if some of this was rambling or a bit off topic

aurelius79

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I've friends that worked for SVDP. They left because they got sick of walking into houses where the parents would be locked, with smokes in their hands complaining that they can't afford the heating bill.

That said, there were some genuine cases, but from the sounds of it the majority were just irresponsible with their money and turned on the auld "Oh, poor me" routine.

What about those who were very careful with their money and only had a mortgage to pay. They walk into work one day and are told to go home, no more work. What about the thousands in that situation?

DERICKOO

DERICKOO wrote: »

Iv just left a friend who survives on €197 per week he is unable to work.

I call on him to help with daily essentials shopping news chat.:pac:

What he has said to me truly amazes me :P.
This is word for word.:pac:
We all have to take the blunt, there may be people who would prefer we went back in our hole and hide so that they cannot see us, they live in there own world of spender and opulence we are there subservient serfs, have you not listened to there higher authority there superiority over there subservient employees mostly in the public service this he said is where most of our problems lye.:cool:
Especially in the hospital and legal side it is what they want that is what the politicians will listen to.:mad:
I can except bankers made greedy mistakes with bonuses and commission payments is now the time for reason the time to see where they have gone wrong or is the greed so overwhelming it controls the individual.:p


I might be on disability but i am not dead.:mad:
This guy was a PUBLIC EMPLOYEE.

My answer
I guess it is time to take the blunt NOW. Next time we have an election we can have a convincing election.:eek:

Smoking a blunt more like..

starbelgrade

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I've friends that worked for SVDP. They left because they got sick of walking into houses where the parents would be locked, with smokes in their hands complaining that they can't afford the heating bill.

That said, there were some genuine cases, but from the sounds of it the majority were just irresponsible with their money and turned on the auld "Oh, poor me" routine.

It's not a case of majority when it comes to society - the true value of any society is how we look after those who need our help.. and that includes the drunks, the addicted & the finacially needy.

It's easy to walk away from these responsibilities.

aurelius79

aurelius79 wrote: »

What about those who were very careful with their money and only had a mortgage to pay. They walk into work one day and are told to go home, no more work. What about the thousands in that situation?

Mortgage relief, then go to the bank and tell them you wont be able to pay to try get a freeze on payments for a while. Cut back on what you can and pay off what you can. Extend the mortgage. Sell up and rent somewhere, even if you take a hit on negative equity.

There's lots of options. Sitting around moaning is the worst one.