Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

westtip

The Idyl Race wrote: »

Golly, lots of shouting. Can't hear your message for the noise..

Indeed apologies for the use of Capitals that is indeed shouting, however after all the years of claiming to be the voice of the community along the western rail corridor its probably worth shouting out loud that the people want a greenway - in terms of who will use it: A dam site more than a railway thats for sure - look at folks out for an evening stroll on the hard shoulder of the N17 how pleasant can that be and ask all the hotels, BnB and restaurants near the Great Western Greenway if it will be used and you will get an easy answer - if the Swinford Vision of the future happens and a greenway connects say Swinford and Kiltimagh and then on to Castlebar to connect to the Great Western Greenway the economic impact on Swinford, Kilkelly,and Kiltimagh will be significant - this piece of news leaked out by sensiblegovernment.com is excellent lets hope West on Track don't try to scupper it like they did the motion in the Sligo county development plan by putting in a "spoiler" about the greenway only be allowed in sofar as it does not interfere with the Western Rail corridor - Little wonder Father Macgreil made his comments last week at that launch of the book about Great Western greenway.

sligotrain

A more logical place to run a greenway would be along the coast from Ballina to Enniscrone, Easky and onto Sligo via Ballysadare. The greenway could then go on up to Rosses Point.

Enniscrone in particular deserves not to be neglected, as it is lovely. This one man campaign to use the Claremorris-Collooney section of railway line as a cycle path is really an anti-rail campaign isn't it?

Grandeeod

sligotrain wrote: »

A more logical place to run a greenway would be along the coast from Ballina to Enniscrone, Easky and onto Sligo via Ballysadare. The greenway could then go on up to Rosses Point.

Enniscrone in particular deserves not to be neglected, as it is lovely. This one man campaign to use the Claremorris-Collooney section of railway line as a cycle path is really an anti-rail campaign isn't it?

On the 3rd Anniversary of this thread, may I remind you to grow up and stop trying to make the discussion personal. If you have any info regarding the cycle path campaign, then spit it out. Or rather back up your assertion about it being a one man anti railway campaign. As they say in the real world, piss or get off the pot. Over to you. Lets hear it.

end of the road

sligotrain wrote: »

This one man campaign to use the Claremorris-Collooney section of railway line as a cycle path is really an anti-rail campaign isn't it?

well if it is, and it succeeds in stoping phaze 2 of the WRC from going ahead, hopefully meaning no more closures of railway lines which might have a chance of surviving, then i'm all for it.

Sponge Bob

Time for the people of Swinford to put it up to the Jim Higginses of this world too. Well done Westtip. The WRC is a dead parrot.

dowlingm

When the "Sensible Government" people have the guts to sign their names, I'll take it seriously. That said, Sligotrain, your defensiveness is not endearing.

corktina

it's been said time and time again and backed up with photos a Greenway and a Railway can exist side by side perfectly satisfactorily and a Greenway would in fact preserve the alignment for any future use as a Railway.

westtip

sligotrain wrote: »

A more logical place to run a greenway would be along the coast from Ballina to Enniscrone, Easky and onto Sligo via Ballysadare. The greenway could then go on up to Rosses Point.

Enniscrone in particular deserves not to be neglected, as it is lovely. This one man campaign to use the Claremorris-Collooney section of railway line as a cycle path is really an anti-rail campaign isn't it?

would not disagree with anything you say - apart from the one man campaign bit:

• Two and a half thousand friends of the campaign on Facebook
• Apparently over 1300 people took part in the survey about the future of Swinford - and the vast majority supported the Greenway idea.
• Many councillors in both Sligo and Mayo support the idea - go ask them
• As do many hotels along the route.

Your idea of a coastal greenway is a good one - problem is - unlike the redundant rail line the land along the route is not in public ownership - from Enniscrone to Easkey would be a good starting point - a path along the coast has been suggested for sometime but it has run into problems with some landowners.

If there were the demand for the rail line it would be a great idea - simple thing is - there isn't. This campaign is not just about the Sligo mayo greenway its about the failure of successive goverments to cop on to the value of long distance walking and cycling - If a walking and cycling greenway were put on the WRC it would be a phenomenal success, I don't need to prove this because there are endless case studies around the world that show these things work (for locals and visitors) and we all know about the GWG. The Sligo Mayo greenway is just a cost effective way of using a public facility.

Wake up. smell the roses.

dowlingm wrote: »

When the "Sensible Government" people have the guts to sign their names, I'll take it seriously. That said, Sligotrain, your defensiveness is not endearing.

Leaking documents is all about anonymity. Anyway the good thing is the document is now out in the open and hopefully cannot be adulterated by efforts of West on Track.

The Idyl Race

Grandeeod wrote: »

On the 3rd Anniversary of this thread, may I remind you to grow up and stop trying to make the discussion personal. If you have any info regarding the cycle path campaign, then spit it out. Or rather back up your assertion about it being a one man anti railway campaign. As they say in the real world, piss or get off the pot. Over to you. Lets hear it.

As it says in Saint Paul's Cathedral, Si monumentum requiris, Circumspice.

Victor

The Idyl Race wrote: »

As it says in Saint Paul's Cathedral, Si monumentum requiris, Circumspice.

= "if you seek his monument, look around"

Translations are nice. Hints of bitchiness are not.

Moderator

Sponge Bob

I'm afraid this issue will always be fraught Victor. Eventually the railway enthusiasts will realise that a Greenway is a better medium term alignment preservation measure than building bungalows willy nilly on CIE owned land, as has been the case in the last 30 years.

Or indeed ROADS > http://binged.it/SNKZ0f

Judgement Day

As one of the few posters here - I imagine - who has ever travelled over the Burma Road I'm intrigued as to why people think it would make a good Greenway. The Westport/Achill route passes through stunning scenery but Claremorris/Collooney is anything but scenic. Just curious. Over to you westtip.

LivelineDipso

sligotrain wrote: »

Enniscrone in particular deserves not to be neglected, as it is lovely. This one man campaign to use the Claremorris-Collooney section of railway line as a cycle path is really an anti-rail campaign isn't it?

Nasty.

LivelineDipso

Judgement Day wrote: »

As one of the few posters here - I imagine - who has ever travelled over the Burma Road I'm intrigued as to why people think it would make a good Greenway. The Westport/Achill route passes through stunning scenery but Claremorris/Collooney is anything but scenic. Just curious. Over to you westtip.

The views across towards the Nephin, Ox Moutains, Knocknashee and up around the craggy rocks of Coolooney is nothing to scoff at.

Sponge Bob

Judgement Day wrote: »

As one of the few posters here - I imagine - who has ever travelled over the Burma Road

It does make a good greenway as part of a NETWORK of Greenways JD.

The plans ( long term) are to have a north south greenway along the west coast with tentacles punching west to the coast itself as oportunitie spresent. There is a separate plan to connect Swinford across to Westport via Castlebar and there are separate plans again to connect Dublin and the Shannon on hard shoulders of former N roads or by Canal Towpaths.

In the context of a gridded network this Greenway is most useful and it is in public ownership by and large. Whether we co lo a railway line along it in future is highly moot, but remains possible after the ownership issue fully resolves itself.

Future road developments on N roads north of Tuam will likely be 2+2 standard which does not come with hard shoulders so cyclists need to be taken offline.

corktina

cycling on a road must be no fun, so a reserved formation must be better even with no view.

westtip

Judgement Day wrote: »

As one of the few posters here - I imagine - who has ever travelled over the Burma Road I'm intrigued as to why people think it would make a good Greenway. The Westport/Achill route passes through stunning scenery but Claremorris/Collooney is anything but scenic. Just curious. Over to you westtip.

JD I am surprised at you - have you read any of my posts? - its about the connectivity of a network of cycling and walking trails - its not just about the parts but the sum of the whole. The Burma road, the Sligo mayo greenway etc is about connecting to a national network. What's more its about safety - we simply don't have a touring cycle product to speak of because our roads are so bloody dangerous - the GWG is fine for a day trip - mine and other peoples vision is to provide a network people can enjoy for say a ten day cycling holiday in ireland, about giving those marching mums on their evening walk in towns like tubercurry, charlestown, Swinford a safe place to walk - or to push a buggy for parents or to push a wheelchair. The burma road would make a good greenway because of its historic railway heritage - it would make good use of that heritage by generating tourist euros in the west. Long distance walking and cycling is about destination activity tourism - people are now going to Wales to do the full coastal walk around the welsh coast - is the bit around Cardiff bay spectacularly attractive - No but that part of the coastal walk is part of the sum of the whole. Try to understand this concept and you will grasp why the Sligo mayo greenway is important and the burma road greenway is important! thanks for your question!

rainbowdash

I think the point about the 1 man campaign is the 3 year hijack of this thread titled "Western Rail Corridor" which should be a discussion of a line that broadly goes from Limerick to Sligo, much of it in daily use.

By all means have a western greenway thread and post relevent information in that.

But this thread should be discussing functional matters like timetables and fares, not discuss the rights and wrongs of sticking a greenway on a disused stretch.

westtip

ah yes but it's been a lively debate, and its not just this thread but its predecessor closed down by who - was in Calina? I can't remember, the debate is about the future of the Western Rail Corridor so why not on WRC thread, of course comments about the timetable and the running speeds of trains and new platforms at Crusheen etc have all fallen in the mix, but even that bastion of West on Track - and the WRC entered the debate just a week or so ago when he (Father McGreil) at a book launch about the Great Western Greenway said more or less thou shalt not have a greenway on our Western Rail Corridor. Greenway/Railway or both - its all part of the debate about what should happen to the rest of the Western Rail Corridor, so this thread is a perfectly legitimate place to debate it, and lets face it talking timetables is not going to take us far.

In view of the leaked document from sensiblegovernment.com isn't that a newsworthy item about the Western Rail corridor? The two issues are intertwined so why not debate them in one place. Isn't that the raison d'etre of Boards.ie - now you're talking and all that - isn't debate what its all about?

And by the way I am not anti rail - but as I think corktina phrased the term once I am anti "fail rail" this is what the WRC southern branch line has been and it would be what the northern branch line is should it come to pass.

dowlingm

rainbowdash wrote: »

I think the point about the 1 man campaign is the 3 year hijack of this thread titled "Western Rail Corridor" which should be a discussion of a line that broadly goes from Limerick to Sligo, much of it in daily use.

By all means have a western greenway thread and post relevent information in that.

But this thread should be discussing functional matters like timetables and fares, not discuss the rights and wrongs of sticking a greenway on a disused stretch.

That's your opinion. It's not shared and not just by one person. Start a "Rail from Athenry to Collooney only and no haterz" thread or even your own discussion forum if you don't want other opinions - particularly ones grounded in economic and technical reality not to mention the possibility of low-capital spend economic development. After all it is a *Corridor* not a religious trail - other uses can and should be contemplated while preserving options for rail use should realistic business plans be presented.

The reality is that the greatest threat to the line is from non-use - a cyclist or walker travelling over the line will report fencing across it by an encroaching landowner or a decaying bridge long before CIE notice it happening.

westtip

rainbowdash wrote: »

which should be a discussion of a line that broadly goes from Limerick to Sligo, much of it in daily use.

.

Just want to come back on this one ---- broadly goes from Limerick to sligo - err actually at the moment it goes from Limerick to Athenry where it joins the galway Dublin line - yes lets remind folks the bit from Athenry to Galway is not actually on the Western rail corridor, that is where the Western Rail corridor joins the Dublin Galway line, lets not ever forget that - to hear some people talk you would think Athenry - Galway was built to accomodate the branch line coming up from Ennis - it wasn't.

The remainder of the errr Western Rail Corridor from Athenry to sligo ....could you please tell us about what part of this is "in daily use" - you see this is why we are all debating about what should actually to this part of the WRC. So that is why myself and others have talked about alternative and lets face it practical uses of the line that may come to pass. The news leaked out from Swinford is the end of the line for the railway north of Claremorris - the practical pragmatism of the people of Swinford has been a game changer as one commentator said on mid west radio this morning, this small piece of news from a small town in the west of ireland has changed the mindset of what the WRC will ever become. It seems now the greenway is what people actually want.

Grandeeod

I am truly saddened by the level of paranoia displayed on this thread. How can a greenway be anti rail or a threat to a disused route that will never be of any kind of economic benefit as a railway in our lifetimes or ever? Having had to educate myself on the history of the line, the only damaging campaign of any kind is the one cheerleaded by WOT and in particular its patron Michael McGreil. I fear he has foisted an outdated dream upon the WRC supporters, that is completely devoid of any economic reality. Its astounding that after many warnings about potential failure and the disaster that is the Ennis-Athenry line, WRC supporters continue to move the goalposts via new and rediculous excuses. As an Irishman abroad, its embarrassing to look at. It reinforces my belief that episodes like this are rife in Ireland and contribute to holding it back. Shocking stuff.

The Idyl Race

Grandeeod wrote: »

I am truly saddened by the level of paranoia displayed on this thread. How can a greenway be anti rail or a threat to a disused route that will never be of any kind of economic benefit as a railway in our lifetimes or ever? Having had to educate myself on the history of the line, the only damaging campaign of any kind is the one cheerleaded by WOT and in particular its patron Michael McGreil. I fear he has foisted an outdated dream upon the WRC supporters, that is completely devoid of any economic reality. Its astounding that after many warnings about potential failure and the disaster that is the Ennis-Athenry line, WRC supporters continue to move the goalposts via new and rediculous excuses. As an Irishman abroad, its embarrassing to look at. It reinforces my belief that episodes like this are rife in Ireland and contribute to holding it back. Shocking stuff.

The preventable death of Savita Halappanavar is what I am shocked, saddened and embarrassed internationally about. Not about the non-issue of the WRC. This falls under the category of "someone is wrong on the internet".

LivelineDipso

The Idyl Race wrote: »

The preventable death of Savita Halappanavar is what I am shocked, saddened and embarrassed internationally about. Not about the non-issue of the WRC. This falls under the category of "someone is wrong on the internet".

The poster is entitled to make his opinion on the WRC - it was a valid opinion too and I agree. The greenway is a wonderful idea, the railway line is pointless in the 21th century.

Victor

sligotrain wrote: »

A more logical place to run a greenway would be along the coast from Ballina to Enniscrone, Easky and onto Sligo via Ballysadare. The greenway could then go on up to Rosses Point.

Enniscrone in particular deserves not to be neglected, as it is lovely.

Feel free to start your own thread / campaign.

sligotrain wrote: »

This one man campaign

Keep it constructive please.

The Idyl Race wrote: »

The preventable death of Savita Halappanavar is what I am shocked, saddened and embarrassed internationally about. Not about the non-issue of the WRC. This falls under the category of "someone is wrong on the internet".

Lets not go there

Moderator

westtip

http://www.advertiser.ie/mayo/article/57346/west-needs-to-develop-network-of-cycle-trails-to-boost-local-economy

West needs to develop network of cycle trails to boost local economy
MAYO ADVERTISER, DECEMBER 14, 2012.
By Geraldine Carr

“The west needs to wake up before their thunder is stolen,” says John Mulligan, who is one of a number of people who are interested in creating a national network of cycling and walking trails.

Speaking to the Mayo Advertiser, Mr Mulligan said that because of the inaction of the Government in developing such a network, that thousands of jobs and business opportunities are being missed. “If the routes were developed it could bring 5,000 jobs.”

Mr Mulligan is part of a hill-walking fraternity who go abroad as there are not enough long distance routes in Ireland, which if created would encourage people to visit. Mr Mulligan said that The Great Western Greenway is a “superb local attraction for half a day cycling” but would only attract more tourists if it was connected to national links. “There is a huge gap” in this industry and he said that unless the west wakes up and develops more trails other locations in Ireland will do it and steal the west’s thunder.

According to Mr Mulligan, politicians seem to favour West on Track rather than developing this idea. He said that West on Track’s “aspirations are very noble”, but “realistically we all know that the train is not coming”, therefore the train tracks should be used for a greenway.

Mr Mulligan highlighted a recent Mayo County Community Forum survey carried out for the Community Futures Action Planning initiative. This showed that the majority of residents in Swinford favoured the disused Claremorris-Collooney line being used as a greenway. Mr Mulligan also said: “The other key point about the route from Claremorris to Collooney is that it should be used to carry a high-speed broadband cable to give city-style broadband to the towns and villages along the route, allowing for high-tech industries to locate in these towns.”

A website which is a platform for these groups’ views is www.sensiblegovernment.com[/end quote]

Mayo Advertiser covers leaked document from Swinford showing the demand for a Greenway on the WRC alignment that runs through Swinford.

there has been a lot of coverage of this on the Midwest radio this week on the Tommy Marren show, with John Mulligan of www.sensiblegovenrment.com speaking about the document and West on Track trying to kill it off.

The truth is now out - it appears the people of Swinford want a Greenway for themselves not just for tourism.

rainbowdash

westtip wrote: »

“If the routes were developed it could bring 5,000 jobs.”

This sh1t really annoys me. I saw one about Shannon developing thousands of jobs in some tourism venture the other day.

If all these plans were so easily implemented to deliver jobs there would be zero unemployment in the country.

At best tourism jobs involving the outdoors inIreland will bring jobs for 6 months, and really its only July and August that there is peak employment.

corktina

Tourism is just about the only area we have to bring in jobs surely.

The kind of tourist that would use a Greenway would be all-weather 24/7/365 types in the main not day trippers on a sunday in August.

westtip

rainbowdash wrote: »

This sh1t really annoys me. I saw one about Shannon developing thousands of jobs in some tourism venture the other day.

If all these plans were so easily implemented to deliver jobs there would be zero unemployment in the country.

At best tourism jobs involving the outdoors inIreland will bring jobs for 6 months, and really its only July and August that there is peak employment.

Does it really annoy - oh dear. Check out a few quotes from West on Track about how many users would use the southern branch line and how many jobs it would create, would those quotes annoy you? The quote you have attributed to me actually comes from the Mayo Advertiser article; the claim for 5,000 jobs incidently is based I think on an entire network of greenways being built around the country - not just the Sligo Mayo Greenway - the sum parts of the whole make the whole; The figure I think was based on the economic papers put in the public domain about the value of greenways to local economies by Sustrans. I ask you to venture to the sustrans website and do some research of your own. It might annoy you even more.:D

BTW hurrah and congratulations to Derek Wheeler - who started this thread after the original thread was closed down, we have now reached post, 3,000.

3,000 posts well done Derek on re-starting the infamous WRC thread.

rainbowdash

corktina wrote: »

Tourism is just about the only area we have to bring in jobs surely.

The kind of tourist that would use a Greenway would be all-weather 24/7/365 types in the main not day trippers on a sunday in August.

Do you honestly believe there as many on the Newport Achill route today as there were on a Sunday in July?

24/7 types would be up on mountains anyway and living in tents, not taking up beds in hotels and sitting in the pub half the time spending money.

Yes it will bring in jobs but certainly not 5000 and whatever jobs are brought in are seasonal.