Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

monument

sligotrain wrote: »

I actually think we are closer in agreement than at first sight. I am not at all against the proposed greenway - though I think marketing Tubercurry as a world class cycling destination might be a bit of a tough sell.

This would be a tough sell to international and even urban Irish dwellers??!!


(The alignment just north of Tubercurry from Google Street View)


(the same location looking the other way)


(from the N17 just south of Tubercurry, looking towards the alignment)


(from a the road level of a bridged crossing right beside Tubercurry -- I'm sure it looks better on the elevated crossing)

Each to their own but I'm used to it -- and like it -- and a huge amount of tourists would lap up that kind of scenery!

westtip

eastwest wrote: »

Even the various campaigners for the railway haven't a clue; one of the leading lights in that organisation said recently on Midwest Radio that the Westport greenway had something that Claremorris didn't, i.e scenery!

Yes indeed this was an interesting comment on MidWest Radio. Others on this thread have said there is nothing interesting to see on the route of the proposed sligo mayo greenway. What they are forgetting is the old rail alignments - unlike the road alignments have not been bungalow blitzed with urban ribbon development - the old rail alignments offer nothing to see but open countryside, clearly the chap from Claremorris who made these comments on Midwest cannot comprehend the beauty of simple open countryside, which is the kind of idyllic view of rural Ireland our visitors are denied on our bungalow blitzed arterial roads. The photographs posted in the previous post by Monument say it all - who would have a problem walking and cycling through this peaceful scenery.

All the other points made by East West are perfectly valid - doing nothing is now the best option for the politicians as it upsets neither side, and of course costs nothing and creates no jobs.

LivelineDipso

That whole stretch from Clarelestown to Coolooney runs alongside the Ox Mountains which are wild and beautiful. The beauty of the cycleway is it allows access into areas where there are no roads so you are in the wilds and well off the beaten track. That INCREDIBLY inviting to many people these days. Away from the roads and the cars. That's also very appealing to nature watchers and people who want to get away from towns.

Honestly, some of the comments on this thread against the Greenway are very odd. South Sligo may not be the Ring of Kerry or Achill, but compared to most of the world it would be considered a place of outstanding natural beauty.

We sometimes forget how beautiful ALL of our country is. Go to Holland and see how their countryside is like a boring pool table. Yet they cycle in the wind and rain.

The Irish just love pointless excuses at the end of the day.

parsi

sligotrain wrote: »

What's all this talk about Golden Tickets? Has Willy Wonka been doing another promotion or have you been at the Sean Barrett Sherbet Dib Dabs?

Surely you've heard of them ?

Big market in counterfeit ones or so they say. Used by ne'er do wells to crisscross the country apparently.

parsi

monument wrote: »

This would be a tough sell to international and even urban Irish dwellers??!!

Surely you're not necessarily selling each small town or village but rather the concept of a grand cycling route that takes you away from the roads ?

There are a few greenways in Cork and they are very busy with cyclists, runners, joggers, speed-walkers, slow walkers and shufflers.

westtip

parsi wrote: »

Surely you're not necessarily selling each small town or village but rather the concept of a grand cycling route that takes you away from the roads ?

There are a few greenways in Cork and they are very busy with cyclists, runners, joggers, speed-walkers, slow walkers and shufflers.

I think monuments point was - after the comment about who on earth would want to go to Tubercurry on holiday he highlighted just what the cyclist on the sligo mayo greenway would enjoy on that part of the greenway. Yes indeed - I think Monument is saying in the photographs that every part of this greenway will have something to offer - and a greenway does not have to go through spectacular countryside moutains by lakes or the shore to be beautiful and tranquil. You are quite right - most of us here promoting a greenway on the route see it as part of a wide national network which will attract tourists and add value to the lifestyle of locals living near the route.

monument

parsi wrote: »

Surely you're not necessarily selling each small town or village but rather the concept of a grand cycling route that takes you away from the roads ?

Sure. But he was trying to make out there was something unattractive about that one place but for users of a greenway the views are great.

You're selling the package alright but it also helps if the areas are at least half attractive for tourists -- and they are more than that.

parsi

monument wrote: »

Sure. But he was trying to make out there was something unattractive about that one place but for users of a greenway the views are great.

You're selling the package alright but it also helps if the areas are at least half attractive for tourists -- and they are more than that.

Thanks ( and WestTip) - I had misunderstood the OP

Sertus

You had your chance. The EU structural funds that were available for this sort infrastructure were wasted away in Ireland years ago on parish pump politics projects.

The bondholders have to be sorted out for the next few generations.

eastwest

Sertus wrote: »

You had your chance. The EU structural funds that were available for this sort infrastructure were wasted away in Ireland years ago on parish pump politics projects.

The bondholders have to be sorted out for the next few generations.

With regards to funding for this kind if infrastructure, it is true that EU structural funding was often wasted - building a motorway to Waterford when a dual carriageway would have been more than adequate for the levels of traffic is a good example. However although the provision of a national route network for walking/ cycling would require some funds, the beauty about this particular section is that it could be developed at no net cost to the state.
How? Somebody has already calculated that the value of the scrap rails would be the same as the cost of levelling the stone ballast and blinding it with 804 and grit to form a path. In addition, routing broadband cabling under the path could add revenue. Waterways Ireland already operates this model, collecting a tariff on every bit of data that passes under the royal canal towpath from Dublin to Maynooth.
Alternatively, the dept of transport could do a deal with a phone company to provide the path at no cost to the taxpayers.
Real high speed broadband in the towns along the route would be an advantage in attracting industry, apart from being great for the residents. Additionally, there is a technology called 'leaky co-ax' that is used in tunnels to provide WI-fi. If laid under this route it would give WI-fi to everyone using it, with implications for targeted marketing of everything from accommodation to food etc for tourists using the route.
All of this requires imagination and a willingness to learn from what works elsewhere. However the west of ireland is mired in an entitlement culture that is fed by politicians providing well-directed crumbs from the national table to retain their power bases, with no interest whatsoever in the common good. The likelihood of logic being applied in this case is slight, I'm afraid. Ignorance and a backward-looking ethos is the order of the day in public life in mayo and Sligo.

Clareboy

The reality is that most Irish people have little interest in using public transport, either rail or bus Our population is now too scattered due to disastrous planning policies, so a properly functioning public transport service in rural areas will never happen.

westtip

Clareboy wrote: »

The reality is that most Irish people have little interest in using public transport, either rail or bus Our population is now too scattered due to disastrous planning policies, so a properly functioning public transport service in rural areas will never happen.

I share your pessimism - but the only real hope of providing an effective public transport system in rural ireland lies in good quality rural bus services; the WRC is not really a runner due to the exact points you have made. But for the health of the population in rural ireland - a greenway network would bring health and social benefits to connect townlands, villages and small towns with a cycle network that would be used.

eastwest

westtip wrote: »

I share your pessimism - but the only real hope of providing an effective public transport system in rural ireland lies in good quality rural bus services; the WRC is not really a runner due to the exact points you have made. But for the health of the population in rural ireland - a greenway network would bring health and social benefits to connect townlands, villages and small towns with a cycle network that would be used.

The problem is that all this is completely logical, but there is nothing in it for politicians. Promising a railway sometime in the future is a safe bet; a bit like draining the Shannon, it will never happen because it is impractical, but it is a great weapon to have in an arsenal of promises come election time. The public don't see the merits of a greenway, or at least not enough of them do. Additionally, there is a very poor understanding among local politicians of the merits of infrastructure like this. Most of them never cycle or walk, and can't understand that somebody might come here to cycle around the country for a week.
The local benefits of a greenway, such as leisure and commuting to school, are also lost on these guys. Their stock in trade is making promises of funding from Dublin for projects, regardless of the merits of such projects.
The west was dying forty years ago, but the same people or their descendants are still
In control and none of them have managed to reverse the trend.
I'm pessimistic about it. In Carlow they are at the planning stages of a greenway linking Dublin to Rosslare. When that happens, it's by bye to cycling tourism in the west.

monument

eastwest wrote: »

The public don't see the merits of a greenway, or at least not enough of them do. Additionally, there is a very poor understanding among local politicians of the merits of infrastructure like this. Most of them never cycle or walk, and can't understand that somebody might come here to cycle around the country for a week.
The local benefits of a greenway, such as leisure and commuting to school, are also lost on these guys.

I usually border on the cynical side, I don't but any of that. The public and politicians in and around Mayo have a fairly high awareness of greenways, at least compared to elsewhere in Ireland.

A notable percentage of the public walk -- that's shown in census for commuting and, for exercise alone, its can be seen in most towns around Mayo in the winter and much more so in the summer. As for cycling -- most people may think cycling on the road is madness, but off-road cycling is a far more attractive idea for enough of the population for it to matter.

And while I'm sure more local people won't personally be interested cycle around the country for a week -- they see enough tourists do it in the summer to know that you could attract even more of them.

When you talk to non-cycling parents about allowing children to cycle to school their main problem is again the roads and drivers -- so if a greenway can help link or mostly link homes to schools, parents will get that idea too.

Like any other idea -- it needs to be pushed and sold to them.

eastwest

monument wrote: »

I usually border on the cynical side, I don't but any of that. The public and politicians in and around Mayo have a fairly high awareness of greenways, at least compared to elsewhere in Ireland.

A notable percentage of the public walk -- that's shown in census for commuting and, for exercise alone, its can be seen in most towns around Mayo in the winter and much more so in the summer. As for cycling -- most people may think cycling on the road is madness, but off-road cycling is a far more attractive idea for enough of the population for it to matter.

And while I'm sure more local people won't personally be interested cycle around the country for a week -- they see enough tourists do it in the summer to know that you could attract even more of them.

When you talk to non-cycling parents about allowing children to cycle to school their main problem is again the roads and drivers -- so if a greenway can help link or mostly link homes to schools, parents will get that idea too.

Like any other idea -- it needs to be pushed and sold to them.

There has been a concerted effort over the last couple of years by various campaigners to sell the idea of a full-length greenway in Sligo/mayo, and of a linked network of trails all over ireland.
In the case of Sligo/mayo, opposition by politicians is the key obstacle. Senior TDs and one MEP are on record as supporting the so-called western rail corridor over a greenway, although at least some of them privately admit that the rail project will never happen.
The politicians in Kildare/Carlow/Kilkenny are more clued in, and that is where real development will take place in coming years. 'Plugging in' a long greenway to Dublin will capture a significant slice if the market that currently has to drive to Westport to get a half day's cycling on the short route from Westport to Achill. If they can ride on a route that is three to four times as long, either without leaving home or by driving a shorter distance, why would they go to Westport?
The west of ireland had the lead in this business but rested on their laurels. The old rail line is the key to providing significant and rapid extension of the existing route, and can be connected to Sligo through the Coillte-owned Union Wood at Collooney. That would join the route to the north west trail, and potentially to the Leitrim railway. At a stroke, the west could become a sugnificant destination.
I repeat though, it won't happen. Politics for a TD is all about getting re-elected, and that requires the support of councillors. Too many of those are part of the pro-rail lobby. It's as simple as that. The best interests of the population don't get a look in.

westtip

monument wrote: »

I usually border on the cynical side, I don't but any of that. The public and politicians in and around Mayo have a fairly high awareness of greenways, at least compared to elsewhere in Ireland.

A notable percentage of the public walk -- that's shown in census for commuting and, for exercise alone, its can be seen in most towns around Mayo in the winter and much more so in the summer. As for cycling -- most people may think cycling on the road is madness, but off-road cycling is a far more attractive idea for enough of the population for it to matter.

And while I'm sure more local people won't personally be interested cycle around the country for a week -- they see enough tourists do it in the summer to know that you could attract even more of them.

When you talk to non-cycling parents about allowing children to cycle to school their main problem is again the roads and drivers -- so if a greenway can help link or mostly link homes to schools, parents will get that idea too.

Like any other idea -- it needs to be pushed and sold to them.

I agree with what you are saying Monument, although eastwest has a good handle on our political psyche in the west. The people of Swinford, one of the key towns on the northern section of the WRC have come out as being right behind the Greenway idea - as recently shown in the Swinford Vision of the Future document from Mayo County Council, and as many of us know the likelihood of a railway every happening between Claremorris and Colooney is bordering on the realms of fantasy that even Tolkein would not have ever dreamt up. But....the fly in the ointment is a long established campaign that took the moral high ground some years ago and won over the mindsets of councillors making them believe that for some apparent reason the concept of a railway line from Limerick to Sligo ....made sense. This campaign was largely driven by a perceived attitude that Dublin does nothing for the west that the west needs this railway, simply because there used to be a railway there 40 odd years ago. There are simply no rational arguments in its favour, there are countless rationale arguments in favour of the greenway, and slowly but surely the message is getting through. In the media, both local and national, in the minds of national and local politicians, and from the people. Slowly but surely the issues is becoming when will we have our greenway, not when are we never going to have the railway that no-one at this stage really wants.

It's an uphill struggle but it is being won. Your recent photos were once again truly brilliant - they said it all.

monument

eastwest wrote: »

There has been a concerted effort over the last couple of years by various campaigners to sell the idea of a full-length greenway in Sligo/mayo, and of a linked network of trails all over ireland.

I was under the impression that the concerted effort to date has focused only on the northern end of alignment and not full-length from the Galway mainline to the Sligo mainline, which is what's needed.

No offence in anybody involved in the effort so-far, but at a local level has the coverage been very Sligo based? The first mention I've seen of it in Mayo newspapers (which fair enough I have not read constantly over the last few years) was a cover story in the Mayo Advertiser just before Christmas about the transport minister's comments which heavy highlighted the greenway side as if it was a new one.

eastwest wrote: »

In the case of Sligo/mayo, opposition by politicians is the key obstacle. Senior TDs and one MEP are on record as supporting the so-called western rail corridor over a greenway, although at least some of them privately admit that the rail project will never happen.

The Great Western Greenway should be an eye-opener for many and Varadkar seems dead set on pushing the Dublin-Galway route -- and, for Mayo and Sligo, not wanting a connection to it is like not wanting to be connected to broadband or gas networks.

Most politicians should slowly turn as public and business support is clear.

Building the support might be hard but it's not anywhere near imposable.

eastwest wrote: »

The politicians in Kildare/Carlow/Kilkenny are more clued in, and that is where real development will take place in coming years. 'Plugging in' a long greenway to Dublin will capture a significant slice if the market that currently has to drive to Westport to get a half day's cycling on the short route from Westport to Achill. If they can ride on a route that is three to four times as long, either without leaving home or by driving a shorter distance, why would they go to Westport?

Westport have little to worry about one-way or another.

It's a destination on a level few towns of any size match, expect for the likes of Tralee and Killarney. Westport is the way it is because the people of Westport have tirelessly and, unusually, unitedly worked for decades in slowly improving the already attractive offering they had.

Regardless of what happens elsewhere, Westport is likely to still get tourists by car, coach, and train who will rent bikes and use the greenway.

It's the rest of towns alone the WRC route and routes which could be attached to it will be the big losers. Westport might lose out a bit -- but not nowhere near any other town or village along the way.

eastwest wrote: »

The west of ireland had the lead in this business but rested on their laurels. The old rail line is the key to providing significant and rapid extension of the existing route, and can be connected to Sligo through the Coillte-owned Union Wood at Collooney. That would join the route to the north west trail, and potentially to the Leitrim railway. At a stroke, the west could become a sugnificant destination.

Agreed on the potential of the WRC as a greenway but at the same time, there's already progress on extending routes from Westport (the quality of such will be key, but that's for another thread).

sligotrain

We have to be careful in that promoting any greenway along the WRC it is not seen as an attempt to scupper any railway development that may happen on that route in the future.

In many respects a more sensible route for a new greenway would be actually along the north west coast from Ballina to Sligo. Ballina has the advantage of already having a rail connection and there are many lovely towns along the coast.

Note to mods: Can we split this thread off from speculation about the proposed Greenway into a dedicated Greenway speculation thread? I think there's a wholly separate discussion needed on Greenway schemes as opposed to railway schemes. We seem to be discussing greenways far more than railways in this thread.

eastwest

sligotrain wrote: »

We have to be careful in that promoting any greenway along the WRC it is not seen as an attempt to scupper any railway development that may happen on that route in the future.

In many respects a more sensible route for a new greenway would be actually along the north west coast from Ballina to Sligo. Ballina has the advantage of already having a rail connection and there are many lovely towns along the coast.

There are two issues to consider. First, the cost of establishing a coastal route would be prohibitive, given that most if it would be on private land. In the case of the WRC, we already own the route and it is almost ready for use. If the rails and sleepers were removed, the existing ballast just needs levelling and topping.
The second issue is the one of keeping the route in public ownership. A greenway would do that very effectively, and if the route was kept in the ownership of CIE with permissive access, a railway could be developed at any time.
Leo Varadker is clearly on record as stating that the Claremorris Collooney line will 'not even be looked at in this decade.' This would suggest, given the lead-in times of such projects, that a railway is a minimum of ten years away at best, assuming that the project is seen as being more urgent that metro north, Mullingar-Athlone, or other proposals on the table. Many politicians will admit privately that this route will never see a train, but it would certainly be logical to suggest that we are twenty years away from seeing the WOT proposal coming to anything. Not developing the route now will lead to loss of too much of it to make any development -- rail or leisure -- impossible.
In the interim, given that there is pretty much zero cost involved in providing a greenway on the route, you would have to ask, what are we waiting for?
The answer of course is that it makes more sense for politicians to promise the impossible at some time in the distant future than to deliver jobs and facilities now.

westtip

sligotrain wrote: »

We have to be careful in that promoting any greenway along the WRC it is not seen as an attempt to scupper any railway development that may happen on that route in the future.

In many respects a more sensible route for a new greenway would be actually along the north west coast from Ballina to Sligo. Ballina has the advantage of already having a rail connection and there are many lovely towns along the coast.

Note to mods: Can we split this thread off from speculation about the proposed Greenway into a dedicated Greenway speculation thread? I think there's a wholly separate discussion needed on Greenway schemes as opposed to railway schemes. We seem to be discussing greenways far more than railways in this thread.

note to mods. discussing what happens on the route of the Western Rail corridor is what this thread is about. the issue of greenway versus railway is part of the public debate going on about the western rail corridor, this is a vibrant discussion why dilute it? The reason a greenway on this route is being discussed more because its the one option that is more likely to happen.

Sligotrain Yes that route from Ballina would be a good route for a greenway - just as a greenway the whole way round the coast would be a good idea - or at least a path - the Wales Coastal path is already proving a huge tourist success but where is the money coming from to buy the land and get all the easement rights on the fields and gardens that run up to the shoreline. The whole point of promoting a greenway on the claremorris - collooney section is

1) A railway is not going to happen on that route in the next 50 years.
2) A greenway will protect the route from further encroachment
3)There is no buying land costs because the route belongs to the public.
4) the 70km greenway from Claremorris to Collooney would be part of a new tourism infrastructure, cost virtually zero to maintain and no subvention and in terms of capital costs would be negligible compared to the cost of a fantasy rail line.

De facto the greenway is the only realistic option for the western rail corridor which is why it is being discussed on the Western Rail corridor thread. Does that make sense to everyone else here?

Finally in terms of what East West said about our politicians - here is a reminder of what eamon o'cuiv said at West on Track conference back in May 2009:

Eamon O’Cuiv: In a speech at a conference about the Western Rail Corridor in May 2009. Mr O’Cuiv when Minister for Community and Gaeltacht affairs said:

“should we use the section of the railway line north of Claremorris as a walkway and cycleway while it is not open as railway?” - A Good question Mr O’Cuiv and why not?

He knew the writing was on the wall - I spoke to him at that conference at the time West on Track were trumpeting the opening of the first section of line, and talking about the inevitable drive northwards towards Claremorris, O'cuiv told me privately on the day - that nothing would ever happen north of Claremorris. Almost four years after that speech a change of government and a decision that nothing will be looked at until 2016. EastWest is right - the politicians in this country are professional ditherers, don't make a decision unless you have too and long finger as much as you can.

sligotrain

It's a pretty wild statement to say that a railway is not going to happen on that route in the next 50 years. None of us have a crystal ball and I certainly wouldn't make such a prediction. How do you know with any certainty what government policy will be in 5 years time let alone 50 years time.

I am certainly supportive of the concept of a greenway alongside the rail alignment but will not support a greenway in an either/or scenario, which appears to be one Westtip is trumpeting.

westtip

sligotrain wrote: »

It's a pretty wild statement to say that a railway is not going to happen on that route in the next 50 years. None of us have a crystal ball and I certainly wouldn't make such a prediction. How do you know with any certainty what government policy will be in 5 years time let alone 50 years time.

I am certainly supportive of the concept of a greenway alongside the rail alignment but will not support a greenway in an either/or scenario, which appears to be one Westtip is trumpeting.

I think you are right it is wildly optimistic to say 50 years - 100 maybe - but yes you are right 50 is a wild statement.

I can certainly say in 5 years time government policy will not have changed on this issue - because we will still be in the financial quagmire, with far greater social and infrastructural priorities than a railway from Kiltimagh to Tubercurry. I also think by this time, there will be bulldozers extending the N17/18 to intersect with the M6 near Athenry; why ? because that is one of the few infrastructural projects that looks like it will be a runner; A good quality road from limerick to north of Tuam - once ithappens the WRC is a dead duck in any event. In fact this road may even be built by that time.

By the way on this subject this is the news in a press release last week from Leo Varadkar released on 2nd January:

Priorities for 2013

4. Restart the PPP roads programme by commencing work on the N7 (Newlands Cross), N11 (Rathnew) and N17/18 (Gort-Tuam) projects;

He listed 19 other priorities but regarding the future of the Western Rail Corridor my guess is the announcement on the Gort Tuam road project has the greatest relevance.

By the way I am not "trumpeting the greenway" as I have always said, as have many others including East West recently, we need to create jobs quickly - a greenway will do this - both in construction and in the jobs in services to users of the greenway - hospitality jobs in tourism, the greenway could be built cheaply and cost nothing to subvent., the railway could be built expensively and cost a lot to subvent. A greenway will protect the alignment for ever - so in 100 years time a railway can be rebuilt if necessary. As ever in Irish Politics why isn't there a will to just get on with it.

monument

sligotrain wrote: »

We have to be careful in that promoting any greenway along the WRC it is not seen as an attempt to scupper any railway development that may happen on that route in the future.

If required agreements can be put in place that it can be put back into rail use or mixed rail and greenway use.

sligotrain wrote: »

In many respects a more sensible route for a new greenway would be actually along the north west coast from Ballina to Sligo. Ballina has the advantage of already having a rail connection and there are many lovely towns along the coast.

How would that be more sensible?

As others point to, you'd be talking about crazy money to put such a route in place -- greenways are usually built around old or new canals, railways, rivers and coasta where there's already a fairly level alignment. There is none in north-west mayo. Even the Killala-Ballina railway line (a very small part of the route you're suggesting) is almost gone besides some small traces left over.

sligotrain wrote: »

WeNote to mods: Can we split this thread off from speculation about the proposed Greenway into a dedicated Greenway speculation thread? I think there's a wholly separate discussion needed on Greenway schemes as opposed to railway schemes. We seem to be discussing greenways far more than railways in this thread.

It's simple: A greenway has a chance, while a railway has none. So the discussion is going towards the realistic option.

westtip

monument wrote: »

Even the Killala-Ballina railway line (a very small part of the route you're suggesting) is almost gone besides some small traces left over.
.

Monument - just to put you right on Geography a Ballina - Sligo coastal path would not go towards Killala but if you want to LOL have a look at http://www.facebook.com/killala.ontrack?fref=ts

That's right if you thought Claremorris-Collooney was pie in the sky there is actually a group of people who think Ballina-Killala railway is a runner "killala on track" find them on FB - now this would be a fantastic greenway and bring untold help to tourism to Killala which has always suffered a bit on the tourism front from its rival across the bay Enniscrone. But a greenway from Killala to Ballina using parts of the old line and running down through Beleek Woods would be a superb local facility - imagine how many ballina folk would cycle out to Killala have some lunch and cycle home. These greenways are about encouraging local usage as well. But thought you would like this one Monument! I digress here from the Western Rail corridor so apologies for going "off track"

sligotrain

Now this chap is promoting a Gas pipeline on the WRC back in 2009:

..."What is needed when looking at this stretch of unused infrastructure is some lateral thinking. We should revisit the ideas expounded by Felim O'Rourke several months ago - and need to ask some questions: So I beg Champion readers to think about these four questions: 1) Would Sligo and towns along the Western Rail Corridor north of Claremorris benefit from having piped natural gas? 2) Would they benefit more from this more than say - a railway line, with a very limited service connecting them? 3) Would they benefit from a piece of tourism infrastructure that would bring hungry tired tourists into their hotels shops B&Bs and pubs on their doorstep at relatively low capital cost and low maintenance? 4) Would they benefit if a high speed technology communication infrastructure were laid on the alignment of the railway at the same time as the gas pipeline? I believe the answer to all four questions is a resounding Yes."...

Source: http://www.sligochampion.ie/temp/collooney-to-claremorris-line-unlikely-to-reopen-1955155.html

monument

westtip wrote: »

Monument - just to put you right on Geography a Ballina - Sligo coastal path would not go towards Killala but if you want to LOL have a look at http://www.facebook.com/killala.ontrack?fref=ts

That's right if you thought Claremorris-Collooney was pie in the sky there is actually a group of people who think Ballina-Killala railway is a runner "killala on track" find them on FB - now this would be a fantastic greenway and bring untold help to tourism to Killala which has always suffered a bit on the tourism front from its rival across the bay Enniscrone. But a greenway from Killala to Ballina using parts of the old line and running down through Beleek Woods would be a superb local facility - imagine how many ballina folk would cycle out to Killala have some lunch and cycle home. These greenways are about encouraging local usage as well. But thought you would like this one Monument! I digress here from the Western Rail corridor so apologies for going "off track"

I know the area well -- I misread his post and thought he said the Mayo north-west coast and on Sligo from Ballina.

Grandeeod

sligotrain wrote: »

It's a pretty wild statement to say that a railway is not going to happen on that route in the next 50 years. None of us have a crystal ball and I certainly wouldn't make such a prediction. How do you know with any certainty what government policy will be in 5 years time let alone 50 years time.

I am certainly supportive of the concept of a greenway alongside the rail alignment but will not support a greenway in an either/or scenario, which appears to be one Westtip is trumpeting.

With all due respect, can you seriously back up any assertion that the WRC from Claremorris to Colooney would ever be a runner in any economic climate? Do you honestly believe that the alignment is really worth protecting and could contribute to the economic growth and well being of that region now or in the future?

What if it was decided to reopen it and relay the line. Its a slow meandering route, like a small rollercoaster in places. Speed will never be an option. I know all this ground has been covered before, but at what point would you finally realise that both protecting the alignment or reopening it is absolutely pointless. I'm sorry if this doesn't concur with your beliefs, but in my opinion you are wrong. The case against this line is strong now and even without a crystal ball, I'll predict it will be even stronger in the near and far off future. There will never be an economic case for its reopening in my lifetime (and I aint that old) and even if an economic case became apparent, its route and initial engineering would render it outdated and useless.

Its not a crime to support the WRC and its not a crime to oppose it. I couldnt care less if a greenway was built on it or not. What concerns me is the level of paranoia, spin and financial waste linked to it. WRC supporters are clearly linked to the aforementioned. The WOT campaign has been woefully unprofessional and based on parish pump politics. To say they have been successful is a complete ignorance of their failure and those in Government who colluded with them. They have generated a failure of a railway, that is costing the taxpayers even more. Furthermore recent statements from WOTs patron re a greenway fully expose the complete disconnect with reality that they suffer from. Only some rail enthusiasts, politicians on the make and jolly do gooders with a West of Ireland complex ,can defend this rediculous scenario. In a way its up there in the category of national disgrace and I really don't think thats overstating it.

The Idyl Race

Grandeeod wrote: »

In a way its up there in the category of national disgrace and I really don't think thats overstating it.

It isn't unique to this thread, here's a good observation elsewhere about the vociferous opposition to rail expansion from some Irish people:

http://corkpolitics.ie/wp/?p=5386

Southern Observer says:
September 18, 2012 at 9:54 pm
Many good comments here – I would ask those opposed to even modest rail re-opening proposals such as this one – why are many Irish so vociferously anti-rail?

All the arguments are in favour (and rail subsidies are a fraction of road), but there is continual, irrational, resistance.

Why do we think the American Way is so good, when it is so demonstrably wasteful, inefficient and unsustainable?"

Ireland often equals Little America

sligotrain

Grandeeod wrote: »

Only some rail enthusiasts, politicians on the make and jolly do gooders with a West of Ireland complex ,can defend this rediculous scenario. In a way its up there in the category of national disgrace and I really don't think thats overstating it.

With all due respect to you I think you are overstating it.

Meanwhile SF are coming up with their own proposals for rail in the West...

Sinn Féin MLA Sean Lynch has called on both the Irish Government and Regional Development Minister Danny Kennedy to work within the Trans-European Transport Network (TEN-T) to develop the railway network along the Western corridor to connect Belfast to Sligo through Derry.

Mr. Lynch said,

“There is funding available through TEN-T, which has a budget of €49 billion, to develop transport systems across the EU.

“Sinn Féin MLA’s brought forward a motion in the Assembly this week that called on Minister Kennedy to work with Irish Transport Minister Varadkar to look at acquiring funding to develop a railway system that would connect Belfast and Sligo through Derry.

“This Western Arc project would include a western rail network extending through from Belfast through Derry, Sligo, Knock, Galway to Shannon/ Limerick. This project would go a very long way to re-establishing an all-Ireland rail network.

“Sinn Féin has been working vigorously in an attempt to acquire the inclusion of a project we feel would benefit the whole island of Ireland.

“Our elected representatives have had discussions in Europe, met with the various councils and various organisations North and South in order to gain more information and to keep moving our project forward.

“The use of an all-island rail passenger/freight network would reduce road traffic congestion, protect the environment by reducing toxic emissions and open the entire western corridor of Ireland North and South to economic development.”

Source: http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/25133

Like it or not these guys may well be inside the next government so it's worth paying attention to what they're saying.

westtip

sligotrain wrote: »

With all due respect to you I think you are overstating it.

Meanwhile SF are coming up with their own proposals for rail in the West...



Source: http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/25133

Like it or not these guys may well be inside the next government so it's worth paying attention to what they're saying.

They would promise central heating to Eskimo's for their igloos if it got them a vote. For the west I guess this plan is so much more important than completion of the good quality road from Letterkenny/Derry to Cork - so much more important than good quality cancer care in the west of ireland, so much more important than building an infrastructure that tourism will benefit from like the national cycle network. It is clearly what the west and north west is crying out for (sic), they SF seriously have lost the plot if this is part of their transport planning thinking.

They may well end up in government - glory be - another party to join the long fingering brigade promising the holy grail of a railway from Kiltimagh to Tubercurry. Wake up folks - smell the coffee. If they got into government with this promise on the ticket - they would be in coalition (with who - scary I know), and as part of the coalition programme for government guess which item would be long fingered for cost benefit analysis some four years into government. Don't you gettit, unless something like the greenway happens this route is going to be "long fingered" over and over again.......groundhog day here we come.