Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

Sponge Bob

http://www.radiokerry.ie/news/cie-says-it-owns-north-kerry-rail-line/

CIE has told Radio Kerry News that it owns the old north Kerry rail line and the land it runs on.

and

The company added that it is happy for plans to develop the section of the line for tourism purposes to go ahead.

HOWEVER do note that CIE are only prepared to deal with County Councils. (This quoted below from 1994 page 7 of 26) . These guys in Limerick/Kerry did all the hard slog for everyone else, fair play.

http://www.southerntrail.net/documents/Great%20Southern%20Trail%20Review%201994.pdf

A Catch 22 situation had arisen. At a meeting attended by the Action Group, Limerick
& Kerry Co. Development Officers and Shannon Development the Action Group were
advised to develop a pilot stretch of about 1 mile to prove the worth of the project. The
County Councils were unwilling to purchase any of the land needed for this pilot stretch
although they had bought other stretches of the line for road widening schemes.

Determined to prove their serious intent the Action Group approached C.I.E. and offered
to buy not one but eight miles of the line. Here the plot thickened! C.I.E. responded by
stating that while they wished the project every success they would not sell to any
Community group. (Rathkeale Community Council had a similar reply to an offer of
purchase which they have made.) C.I.E. wished to sell to the County Councils and the
Councils appeared to be reluctant purchasers. This 1992 scenario is the one still
pertaining today.

As 1993 came into view the Action Group still continued the campaign. A stand was
taken at the West Limerick Trade Fair in Newcastle West in June. Interest was very high
and throughout 1993 several hundred Friends of the Trail enrolled. Hundreds also
participated in two separate walks. The first, in August, from Tullig Wood
(Templeglantine) to Abbeyfeale was led by Limerick s Mayor Jan O Sullivan and
Abbeyfeale s Cllr. Sean Broderick. The second, in late September from Ardagh to
Newcastle West (and back via the Old Mill) was started by Donncha O Dulaing.
This huge increase in public participation in Trail events was mirrored in the responses

The pesky councillors will then come back to bite you on the arse because of Leader Projects where they get Board representation.

This is an illustrative example of a Leader Board (IE feckin massive) that SUPPORTS a Greenway in its area. There are 4 leader groups covering the area betweeen Athenry and Colooney and it only takes one ( either way ) to get behind a cause or cause major issues. One must identify the most compliant and get them on board pronto. The least compliant will have cross membership with councillors on the Western Intercounty Railway Committee. These cross members will be MAINLY but not always FG councillors, FF has not controlled a council west of the Shannon in years.

http://www.forumconnemara.ie/index.php?module=site&show=stuff

Leader Groups can access tourist development and EU Rural Development funds ...and are essential for the latter. A new Rural Development plan is in train for the 2014-2020 period and the oar needs sticking in now.

EG >

All

http://sligo.leaderpartnership.ie/

Locally there are four of these. They may be abolished this year and their functions transferred to County Enterprise or County Development.

http://www.sligoleader.com/about/board/
http://www.mayonortheast.com/board-staff.asp#page
http://www.southmayo.com/index.php/contact-us (oops, Patsy Alert , p5 , execute evasionary shimmy for now. )
http://www.grd.ie/About/directors.html

And Good Luck to the Galway- Sligo Greenway

steamengine

Spongebob : Therefore the situation is so parochial, and convoluted, and requires so much grovelling, to these shysters on their little power trips, that the most likely outcome is indeed a stalemate. But the cause is correct - all those lines belong to the public and the public have a right determine their future use - by consensus agreement of course.

Sponge Bob

steamengine wrote: »

Spongebob : Therefore the situation is so parochial, and convoluted, and requires so much grovelling, to these shysters on their little power trips, that the most likely outcome is indeed a stalemate. But the cause is correct - all those lines belong to the public and the public have a right determine their future use - by consensus agreement of course.

Indeed Steamengine, One must have ones strategy and tactics separated out.

In terms of strategy I am a big fan of going to the top: The strategy is to preserve ownership and remove day to day liability for the preservation of ownership from CIE themselves ....and with an inalienable permanent right of repossession for railway purposes.

http://www.transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=356

Because good relations with the top are always more important than grinding through the 'partnership' sludge in the lower middle order.

And get the public walking early and walking often. Bringing slash hooks not recommended .....try some sneaky roundup appliqué and fence snippage instead.

This whole incident sickened me. Private property? No it isn't, they're the ones tresspassing, not the GST walkers. :mad:

Sponge Bob

Karsini wrote: »

This whole incident sickened me. Private property? No it isn't, they're the ones tresspassing, not the GST walkers. :mad:

Make the next walk bigger and send the whole shaggin St Patricks Day parade out there next time from BOTH Abbeyfeale and from Listowel as the spot is about half way. Then send the Easter Parades out there a few weeks later ( weather permitting)

The alignment seems substantially intact to me save where the Listowel bypass was built on part of it.

http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,498483,634045,6,0

Sponge Bob

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Make the next walk bigger and send the whole shaggin St Patricks Day parade out there next time from BOTH Abbeyfeale and from Listowel as the spot is about half way. Then send the Easter Parades out there a few weeks later ( weather permitting)

The alignment seems substantially intact to me save where the Listowel bypass was built on part of it.

http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,498483,634045,6,0

By and large it is intact. I used to live in Listowel so I've walked the trackbed quite a few times, well whatever parts are passable.

westtip

Karsini wrote: »

This whole incident sickened me. Private property? No it isn't, they're the ones tresspassing, not the GST walkers. :mad:

It is indeed a shocking story, and one could say, only in Ireland, what is wrong with this country, I always thought tourism was sacrosant in Kerry as a main driver of the economy and a few are stopping this development from happening, it really is a sad and pathetic story I really wonder what overseas readers must think reading a tale like this. What a sad country.

Seaswimmer

Karsini wrote: »

By and large it is intact. I used to live in Listowel so I've walked the trackbed quite a few times, well whatever parts are passable.

How come all the focus is on the Western Greenway in Mayo.. I never heard of this trail until this topic..

It seems like a great amenity..

westtip

Seaswimmer wrote: »

How come all the focus is on the Western Greenway in Mayo.. I never heard of this trail until this topic..

It seems like a great amenity..

Its in Enda's constituency, its in Rings constituency. That's why it gets so much focus. Plus to give them some credit it has had great support from Mayo County council who have pushed it hard for every award going and who have a very active walking development office. I am surprised though that Mayo County council haven't stood up to West on Track and say they want more greenway and to extend it to the sligomayo greenway proposed on the Western Rail Corridor north of Claremorris - some politics involved in this one as there seems to be a view if Westport isn't the beginning and the end of the trail Westport will suffer - instead of seeing Westport as a pivotal stoppover on the network of greenways utilising such facilities as the Western Rail corridor as part of a national network. If Varadkars plan for an east west Dublin Galway greenway happens - and if this route is not somehow "greenway connected" (ie not via the road network), to the Great Western Greenway - Westport will miss out on this greenway network connectivity. Those reading this who have some understanding of the parish pumpism in Mayo politics will understand what I mean! For those reading from outer space (outside the wesht) don't even begin to try and understand it.

GearoidP

Hi, we've a facebook page now to push for the extension of the Great Southern Trail extension to Listowel. All "likes" greatly appreciated: www.facebook.com/Listowelrailwalk

I attended the Urban council meeting in Listowel last Monday 11th Feb. All councillors present (except 1) spoke in favour of the trail being extended to Listowel, with only 3 of then "qualifying" their support by saying that it would need to be achieved through consensus.

Hopefully at the next sitting of Listowel Urban Council, they will actually pass a motion in support.

After the meeting, a team of us distributed 1000 brochures (with map of the trail etc) to houses in Listowel. Everyone we spoke to in Listowel was in support of this. There are a lot of closed shops in Listowel and anything like this that can bring in tourists will be welcome, as well being a great amenity for the people of Listowel.

Hungerford

I have a question: can anybody explain the issue in North Kerry and this squatters group? What do they want?

I have read Sponge_Bob's post and the links he included but it doesn't make any sense to me.

westtip

Simple answer they want compensation for land they have stolen, that never belonged to them but now they have squatted on - they have also seen how well Mayo farmers did out of the GW greenway in terms of fences built, road crossings made safer, state of the art gateways, etc etc. The greenway itself does no harm to any farmland in Mayo but there have been some serious benefits in terms of farm infrastructure put in place along its route.

It is all about money. simple as.

Instead of welcoming the North Kerry and Limerick Greenway (great Southern trail) and seeing the opportunities it will bring to their area they just want to see how they can get a cheque for doing sweet fanny adam.

I spoke to a farmers wife in Derbyshire last summer on a walking weekend away, my partner and I had stopped at a house that said "tea and scones please knock on the door". After a plate of scones and pot of tea for a fiver (between us) she said this little business had transformed their farm, they had started taking in walkers for BnB, they were looking at converting the barn to holiday cottage for walkers, she said they make more selling tea and scones to walkers than they do rearing lambs. This is what the farmers and landowners in kerry don't get. The rural economy is changing. Grasp the change and milk the townies for all you can within reason - the fiver for the tea and scones was good value and about £4.00 at least was profit; do that 30 times a day in the high season and ten times a day in the low season and it soon mounts up...

pigtown

westtip wrote: »

It is all about money. simple as.

Instead of welcoming the North Kerry and Limerick Greenway (great Southern trail) and seeing the opportunities it will bring to their area they just want to see how they can get a cheque for doing sweet fanny adam.

Much and all as I disagree with their claims of ownership, wouldn't they be mad not to look for some kind of benefit out of this? If you don't ask then you don't get afterall.

westtip wrote: »

I spoke to a farmers wife in Derbyshire last summer on a walking weekend away, my partner and I had stopped at a house that said "tea and scones please knock on the door". After a plate of scones and pot of tea for a fiver (between us) she said this little business had transformed their farm, they had started taking in walkers for BnB, they were looking at converting the barn to holiday cottage for walkers, she said they make more selling tea and scones to walkers than they do rearing lambs. This is what the farmers and landowners in kerry don't get. The rural economy is changing. Grasp the change and milk the townies for all you can within reason - the fiver for the tea and scones was good value and about £4.00 at least was profit; do that 30 times a day in the high season and ten times a day in the low season and it soon mounts up...

Does this imply that only people that have direct access to the greenway will benefit? If this farmhouse had been half a mile walk off the greenway track would you have made the detour?

what_traffic

Anybody know how is the progress of the new Garraun railway station coming along on the WRC?:rolleyes:

CrowdedHouse

Maybe..unlikely but maybe they've abandoned it.They copped on and stopped wasting money on yet another station that no one will use.

westtip

what_traffic wrote: »

Anybody know how is the progress of the new Garraun railway station coming along on the WRC?:rolleyes:

Where is this station planned for on the WRC - its a new one on me? There isn't seriously another halting stop planned is there?

Is this the one at Crusheen? Dick Fearn gave me the impression that he really didn't want it, but it went ahead anyway.

westtip

Karsini wrote: »

Is this the one at Crusheen? Dick Fearn gave me the impression that he really didn't want it, but it went ahead anyway.

Remember that Eco Eye programme on the WRC about 3 or 4 years ago - Hilarious stuff about what demand there would be for commuter trains at Crusheen, and using the excuse that all the commuter traffic and lorries and trucks going through Crusheen would seemingly go away if a train line opened then the Gort/Crusheen M18 section opened up....What happened to Crusheen after that, well the through traffic went away to the bypass and I imagine it is a much more pleasant place to live in now. But just how many of the people in Crusheen who demanded and campaigned for the railway are using it on a regular basis. A handful - if that.

Another total waste of money - a station at Crusheen that is.

what_traffic

westtip wrote: »

Where is this station planned for on the WRC - its a new one on me? There isn't seriously another halting stop planned is there?

Being a bit cheeky here - am talking about the "Oranmore" station(which is being built in Garraun) that's on the Galway-Dublin line.
Here is a thread on it in the Galway City forum
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056237295&referrerid=233766

and a good post in thread
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70309633&postcount=5

if you want to see the planning application map and location of the station.
If it was being built in Oranmore itself it might work.

westtip

Drove through Tuam last week on the N17. at the railway crossing I noticed four people walking the line with two dogs - clearly the people of Tuam are already using their greenway.

what_traffic

westtip wrote: »

Drove through Tuam last week on the N17. at the railway crossing I noticed four people walking the line with two dogs - clearly the people of Tuam are already using their greenway.

When you look at Tuam on Google Maps - aerial view; it is clear to see what a great cycling and walking resource the railway line greenway would be for local residents. It is in the heart of the town.

foggy_lad

what_traffic wrote: »

When you look at Tuam on Google Maps - aerial view; it is clear to see what a great cycling and walking resource the railway line greenway would be for local residents. It is in the heart of the town.

A greenway would do more for the town in a few years than the railway ever did!

westtip

foggy_lad wrote: »

A greenway would do more for the town in a few years than the railway ever did!

#

Thats what the folk in the tuam greenway project think see them on facebook http://www.facebook.com/groups/213079802087801/?fref=ts

IN the meantime here's another interesting piece in the Examiner about that dispute down in Kerry

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cie-lays-claim-to-disputed-rail-line-221870.html

I think we are going to miss the boat on the Western Rail Corridor greenway as the rather moribund councillors in Mayo Galway and Sligo seem to have their heads stuck in the sand believing what they have heard time and again from WOT, too many councillors careers are pinned to the Western Rail corridor :-(

yer man!

what_traffic wrote: »

Anybody know how is the progress of the new Garraun railway station coming along on the WRC?:rolleyes:

Ya it was stopped for a while but it's back up and running again. Concrete was being poured for the past two weeks to make the platform and the car park is all levelled out. The line is being closed this weekend in order to do more work on the station and lough atalia bridge.

It's main purpose will be P&R as far as I can see. I would gladly use it if it will be competitively priced, the bus fare seems to go up and up every year it's €3.80 single and €5.50 return on that and it is and takes 30 minutes (shuttle bus), horrible service!!

yer man!

what_traffic wrote: »

If it was being built in Oranmore itself it might work.

I think one of the reasons that it couldn't be built near the old station (which is pretty central) was that the N18 would have to be grade separated (would cost a fortune!!) as the tailback in the morning and evening from that level crossing is terrible as it is. It's not uncommon to see a 400M line of traffic either side of that level crossing during the day. Having a train come to a complete stop in the area would cripple the place.

Sponge Bob

Yeah but they are bypassing that with a new N18.

westtip

yer man! wrote: »

I think one of the reasons that it couldn't be built near the old station (which is pretty central) was that the N18 would have to be grade separated (would cost a fortune!!) as the tailback in the morning and evening from that level crossing is terrible as it is. It's not uncommon to see a 400M line of traffic either side of that level crossing during the day. Having a train come to a complete stop in the area would cripple the place.

Ah sure don't you know that once the station is in place everyone will give up their private cars and cheaper buses, just like they have all along the Western Rail corridor......:D

yer man!

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Yeah but they are bypassing that with a new N18.

After gort the new M18 gets a tad grassy though..... old N18 is much better ;-)

yer man!

westtip wrote: »

Ah sure don't you know that once the station is in place everyone will give up their private cars and cheaper buses, just like they have all along the Western Rail corridor......:D

Do you commute into Galway? do you get the bus? I'm just stating fact, jesus once western rail corridor is mentioned in a sentence it has to be a bad sentence according to you. This station just happens to come under the same phase of funding as the WRC, it doesn't have an awful lot to do with the line itself, it would mainly service commuters in and out of Oranmore. I'm not saying it will be a good or bad idea, but I do drive, driving into Galway is a nightmare (45mins from oranmore to eyre sq some mornings). If I was to get the bus it would take just as long if I wanted to park at the oranmore stop with parking next to it.

westtip

yer man! wrote: »

Do you commute into Galway? do you get the bus? I'm just stating fact, jesus once western rail corridor is mentioned in a sentence it has to be a bad sentence according to you. This station just happens to come under the same phase of funding as the WRC, it doesn't have an awful lot to do with the line itself, it would mainly service commuters in and out of Oranmore. I'm not saying it will be a good or bad idea, but I do drive, driving into Galway is a nightmare (45mins from oranmore to eyre sq some mornings). If I was to get the bus it would take just as long if I wanted to park at the oranmore stop with parking next to it.

Fair point - and no I don't commute into Galway but do use the N17/18 on a regular basis. Of course you are right the oranmore station isn't actually part of the WRC and probably should have been built before the branch line from Athenry to Ennis was built - and IMO is far more important than say the Crusheen station. I have advocated in previous posts that double tracking or at least more loops on Galway/Athlone and having a good stopping/commuter service between Athlone and Galway would have done a great deal more for the west and indeed for the Galway/Dublin intercity services.

You are quite right though the Oranmore station has nothing really to do with the western rail corridor as its on the Dublin Galway line. It's really the development of the branch line from Athenry to Ennis I see as the real waste - and an extension of the northern branch line from Athenry to Tuam and Claremorris as a complete and utter waste of resources, as for Claremorris - colloney we all know what I personally think of that little myth.