Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

Sponge Bob

While Leo was keeping it country for the Weekend I hope he took the opportunity to Condemn Fine Gael Councillors in Kerry and Sligo ( I have a name) from Encouraging Squatting on state land and that Leo laid down a Zero Tolerance Policy of these antics.



I hope the thugs from Kerry shown in the photos from a few weeks back did not spoil what promised to be a pleasant occasion n West Limerick.

http://www.radiokerry.ie/news/minister-visits-contentious-greenway-project/

Let me also point out that being an FG councillor does not automatically mean that one supports squatting. However one fears that squatters seem to have the support of the council in Listowel.

http://www.radiokerry.ie/news/former-councillor-interrupts-listowel-town-council-following-railway-line-presentation/

12/02/13

The presentation passed without incident, however as the meeting continued, former Fine Gael Cllr Robert Pierse stood up in the public gallery and said it was a disgrace the councillors didn’t pass a resolution on the project, saying the councillors had no courage to try to better their town.

Markcheese

So are they protesting about having to give back the railway line ? Is there a right to pass along the line still ? I suppose it could get expensive if stock (eg a bull) interfere with walkers, farmers public liability'd want to be good especially if they prevented decent fencing /gates being constructed...

westtip

Markcheese wrote: »

So are they protesting about having to give back the railway line ? Is there a right to pass along the line still ? I suppose it could get expensive if stock (eg a bull) interfere with walkers, farmers public liability'd want to be good especially if they prevented decent fencing /gates being constructed...

Its "outsiders" using the route for leisure and bringing money into the local economy they are protesting against - they are seeing the chance to make a few quid by giving up the land they have squatted on - the truth is with the fortunate fact that the route is still in use by IE - by virtue of the fact (I believe this to be right but correct me if im wrong) that there is a fibre optic cable running the length of the line which IE allows the transmission of data along - in other words the route is still being used commercially and no-one has the right to take it over. I would say from what I have read that the farmers are hanging out for a vestige of a hand-out - being Ireland they will probably get it - and then these very same farmers will start milking (sic) the tourists that come to use the greenway. Tis a strange country indeed. Its a pity West on Track hadn't insisted on a cable being laid along the Western Rail corridor instead of trying to stop the greenway they should have been trying to stop the extensive squatting taking place on the line from Athenry to Collooney, they have taken their eye off the ball being obsesses with the old rail tracks staying in place in the belief these would protect the line from encroachment - they haven't and sooner or later when the direction is made to turn this route into Greenway - there are going to be similar squatters rights issues. West on Track have effectively failed to protect what they were hoping to see restored, and Irish Rail and Sligo and Mayo county councils will also share the blame.

galwaycyclist

I am working on a discussion paper on Irish cycling policy at the moment and I would like to work in the WRC. Can anyone point me at a recent and reasonably accurate/defensible estimate of the projected costs of restoring the WRC as a railway either in sections or as a whole from Athenry to Collooney?

dowlingm

galwaycyclist wrote: »

I am working on a discussion paper on Irish cycling policy at the moment and I would like to work in the WRC. Can anyone point me at a recent and reasonably accurate/defensible estimate of the projected costs of restoring the WRC as a railway either in sections or as a whole from Athenry to Collooney?

Be pretty difficult unless you asked yer man McCann for the working data his report was based on before the political "instagram filter" was added.

Richard Logue

galwaycyclist wrote: »

I am working on a discussion paper on Irish cycling policy at the moment and I would like to work in the WRC. Can anyone point me at a recent and reasonably accurate/defensible estimate of the projected costs of restoring the WRC as a railway either in sections or as a whole from Athenry to Collooney?

I'd suggest you try West on Track and Iarnrod Eireann as a starting point.

lockon...

galwaycyclist wrote: »

I am working on a discussion paper on Irish cycling policy at the moment and I would like to work in the WRC. Can anyone point me at a recent and reasonably accurate/defensible estimate of the projected costs of restoring the WRC as a railway either in sections or as a whole from Athenry to Collooney?

Old figure but:

17 May 2005
The Athenry to Tuam and Tuam to Claremorris stages of the line could be treated as one stage with a link to Galway because it is shorter in distance than the Claremorris to Collooney stage and would cost approximately €93 million.
http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/seanad2005051700010?opendocument

Then you also have:

24 January 2013
Deputy Robert Dowds: I entirely accept that public transport will generally operate at a loss, but what about where it is operating at a gross loss? Mr. Murphy may not have the figures on this, but I would be curious to know, for example, what it costs to run the Limerick-to-Athenry line on a yearly basis and how much money the company takes in from customers. My guess is that probably under 5% of the running costs would come from customers. Would I be correct?

Mr. Gerry Murphy: Deputy Dowds is correct. There is a significant subsidy going into that corridor.

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/Debates%20Authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/committeetakes/ACC2013012400019?opendocument

LOL

Sponge Bob

galwaycyclist wrote: »

I am working on a discussion paper on Irish cycling policy at the moment and I would like to work in the WRC. Can anyone point me at a recent and reasonably accurate/defensible estimate of the projected costs of restoring the WRC as a railway either in sections or as a whole from Athenry to Collooney?

Almost €10m a km. Source Irish Rail P5

http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/CommunityCulture/Publications/FileEnglish,4505,en.pdf

180 divided by 21 is actually €8.6m but IE owns almost all that land already.

LoonyLovegood

I was on the WRC on Sunday, and the amount on the train was pitiful. GRANTED, it was the 8:30 Galway - Limerick, but until Ennis it was myself and one other woman on it. It was seriously delayed - I missed my connection to Dublin and almost missed the Limerick Junction connector, which would have left me in Limerick until after 1pm. 25 minute delay like! I understand that some was because of the works between Athenry and Galway (we were bused to Athenry), but there was signal failure at Gort...surely a new enough line shouldn't have a signal failure already?

Judgement Day

I was having a trawl on YouTube tonight, looking for DW's "A West of Ireland Epic" which seems to have been taken down but found this strange little gem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ6JNE625x4

westtip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KypTTQQDAlU

but this is the real story isn't it - the film was very esoteric JD but we all know the truth lets all watch primetime again - just to keep our feet on the ground.

westtip

Richard Logue wrote: »

I'd suggest you try West on Track and Iarnrod Eireann as a starting point.

well that will really give the truth!!! LOL. Look at McCann - they divided the line up into four sections. compare its costs with those that actually were spent on phase one and factor in some inflation or even deflation.

http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/6645-0.pdf

This is from Section 3 - Specific recommendations

The WRC can be broadly divided into four basic sections of line*. Table 1 lists
these sections, the distances involved, the capital costs and the averages costs per mile. This data is taken from the FaberMaunsell capital costs study.
Table 1
Section Distance Capital Cost Average Cost Per Mile
Ennis to Athenry 36 miles €74.7m €2.1m
Athenry to Tuam 15.5 miles €34.7m €2.2m
Tuam to Claremorris 17 miles €58.9m €3.5m
C/morris to Collooney 46.25 miles €197.4m €4.3m

They got the capital costs wrong as they were probably fudged by Faber Maunsell in the first instance. Ennis to Athenry cost €105 million - some of that went on the Athenry - Galway section, so you can take something out for that section of the capital cost, but not much. Lets say they got it wrong by a factor of 30% or whatever reasonable figure you feel can be justified.

Have a good laugh at those figures for Claremorris collooney - factor them up and then think about why we can't have a greenway for maybe 2 million tops 3 million, about the cost of subventing the southern branch line for a year on current operating costs - €3 million on a greenway now would bring tourist revenues in straight away. Let's just suppose the €197 million projection for C/morris Collooney was now say €290 million! LOL Can you imagine the public response to such an idea!!!! good luck with your report - Looking forward to reading it.:D

serfboard

From The Galway Independent:

The Galway Independent wrote:

People travelling from Galway to Limerick by train will be able to book their tickets on line in the next two months, as Irish Rail steps up its efforts to rescue the struggling service.

The Galway Independent can reveal that, while overall passenger numbers for the route increased from 224,166 to 235,555 in 2012, the number of travellers using the city-to-city service has continued to under-perform.

Figures provided by Irish Rail for the ‘Ennis to Athenry’ route, which includes Galway to Limerick passengers in addition to those travelling from Gort, Ardrahan and Craughwell, showed that just 34,235 used the midsection of the service in 2012. This is in line with a continuing downward trend, with a reduction of 266 passengers over the 12-month period.

However, the popularity of the Athenry to Galway service continues to grow, with passenger numbers increasing from 123,315 in 2011 to 133,944. A slight increase was also recorded on the Limerick to Ennis line, with figures rising from 66,390 to 67,376.

8.5% increase for Athenry->Galway and 1.5% increase for Ennis->Limerick.

And despite this good news, Ennis->Athenry numbers are decreasing. 658 per week spread over 18 services = 36 per train. Less than a busful.

Grandeeod

Judgement Day wrote: »

I was having a trawl on YouTube tonight, looking for DW's "A West of Ireland Epic" which seems to have been taken down but found this strange little gem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ6JNE625x4

Is this it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1bzLCIV54U

foggy_lad

serfboard wrote: »

From The Galway Independent:

8.5% increase for Athenry->Galway and 1.5% increase for Ennis->Limerick.

And despite this good news, Ennis->Athenry numbers are decreasing. 658 per week spread over 18 services = 36 per train. Less than a busful.

All paying passengers? or are free travel pass holders included in the figures?

corktina

serfboard wrote: »

From The Galway Independent:

8.5% increase for Athenry->Galway and 1.5% increase for Ennis->Limerick.

And despite this good news, Ennis->Athenry numbers are decreasing. 658 per week spread over 18 services = 36 per train. Less than a busful.

the usual massaged figures. The increase is Galway to Athenry (which no doubt includes Dublin bound passengers!) which was always there and Ennis to Limerick which was running well before 105 million was wasted joining the two together, this being borne out by Atherny to Ennis usage dropping again

Poxyshamrock

Add to this the confirmation this afternoon that the rest of the M18 (from Gort to Athenry) is to begin before the end of the year. An even quicker bus service presumably


http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0227/369895-funding-cleared-for-new-gort-to-tuam-motorway/

westtip

serfboard wrote: »

From The Galway Independent:

8.5% increase for Athenry->Galway and 1.5% increase for Ennis->Limerick.

And despite this good news, Ennis->Athenry numbers are decreasing. 658 per week spread over 18 services = 36 per train. Less than a busful.

I make it 5 Athenry - Ennis trains per day Mon-Sat and 7 Ennis Athenry trains mon Sat and 4 each way on sunday = 80 trains per week not 18 = 8.225 (658/80) passengers per train - open to scrutiny if others want to look at the timetable. Thats 8 people on each train making the intercity journey isn't it?

corktina

looks like it.. a minibus load...

I'll be on it on Friday and I'll count em and report back

foggy_lad

westtip wrote: »

I make it 5 Athenry - Ennis trains per day Mon-Sat and 7 Ennis Athenry trains mon Sat and 4 each way on sunday = 80 trains per week not 18 = 8.225 (658/80) passengers per train - open to scrutiny if others want to look at the timetable. Thats 8 people on each train making the intercity journey isn't it?

An 8 seater taxi could do the trip a lot cheaper than IE!

westtip

Originally Posted by The Galway Independent

Figures provided by Irish Rail for the ‘Ennis to Athenry’ route, which includes Galway to Limerick passengers in addition to those travelling from Gort, Ardrahan and Craughwell, showed that just 34,235 used the midsection of the service in 2012. This is in line with a continuing downward trend, with a reduction of 266 passengers over the 12-month period.
.

I am just requoting the figures posted up a few posts back they are astounding.

658 people per week using this route???? down again on 2011
80 trains per week with an average payload of 8 passenger???
€105 million in capital cost to accommodate 34,235 passenger trips per annum???

Why is the debate about further extensions north and reviews in 2016 even being contemplated. What is wrong with Government when No minister can simply say enough is enough this charade is over. The WRC is over, we will no longer listen to or even contemplate this nonsense any longer.

WTF is actually going on in Government - Decisions need to be made what is all the dithering about?

what_traffic

westtip wrote: »

well that will really give the truth!!! LOL. Look at McCann - they divided the line up into four sections. compare its costs with those that actually were spent on phase one and factor in some inflation or even deflation.

http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/6645-0.pdf

This is from Section 3 - Specific recommendations



They got the capital costs wrong as they were probably fudged by Faber Maunsell in the first instance. Ennis to Athenry cost €105 million - some of that went on the Athenry - Galway section, so you can take something out for that section of the capital cost, but not much. Lets say they got it wrong by a factor of 30% or whatever reasonable figure you feel can be justified.

Have a good laugh at those figures for Claremorris collooney - factor them up and then think about why we can't have a greenway for maybe 2 million tops 3 million, about the cost of subventing the southern branch line for a year on current operating costs - €3 million on a greenway now would bring tourist revenues in straight away. Let's just suppose the €197 million projection for C/morris Collooney was now say €290 million! LOL Can you imagine the public response to such an idea!!!! good luck with your report - Looking forward to reading it.:D

Westip your figures for Greenway are probably about right. FYI Galway County Council estimate that Clifden to Oughterard Greenway will cost 6-7 million; that has not been a functioning Railway Line since 1937 so much more work's required. Still 6-7 million is good value for 55km of Greenway in Connemara.

westtip

what_traffic wrote: »

Westip your figures for Greenway are probably about right. FYI Galway County Council estimate that Clifden to Oughterard Greenway will cost 6-7 million; that has not been a functioning Railway Line since 1937 so much more work's required. Still 6-7 million is good value for 55km of Greenway in Connemara.

When you consider virtually zero subvention costs (ie minimal maintenance) and this will be a route that will deffo bring the tourist money in - and generate internal spend as well with domestic usage. It will probably pay for itself inside 3 years in increased revenue in the economy VAT intake, employment taxes intake on jobs created by the greenway, even down to silly things like increasing bike sales (VAT intake) will have an effect.

No brainer really.

what_traffic

Some figures of usage on the Galway - Limerick WRC line.

Online bookings for Galway – Limerick line
http://galwayindependent.com/stories/item/6151/2013-9/Online-bookings-for-Galway-%E2%80%93-Limerick-line
Posted on 27/02/2013 by Marie Madden @galwayindo

corktina

yep we already have them. Traffic between Ennis and Athenry has fallen again. Average usage just over 8 passengers per train,.

dowlingm

CTYIgirl wrote: »

I was on the WRC on Sunday, and the amount on the train was pitiful. GRANTED, it was the 8:30 Galway - Limerick, but until Ennis it was myself and one other woman on it. It was seriously delayed - I missed my connection to Dublin

Galway-Limerick-Dublin? Was there a reason you were routing through Limerick?

end of the road

dowlingm wrote: »

Galway-Limerick-Dublin? Was there a reason you were routing through Limerick?

she probably got on at one of the stations outside athenry? or got on at ennis? but knew that the train originated in galway?

LoonyLovegood

dowlingm wrote: »

Galway-Limerick-Dublin? Was there a reason you were routing through Limerick?

Didn't realise that there were bus transfers to Athenry, barely missed the bus to Athenry, and with a broken ankle the 3/4 hour bus to Dublin can't happen

rainbowdash

westtip wrote: »

I am just requoting the figures posted up a few posts back they are astounding.

658 people per week using this route???? down again on 2011
80 trains per week with an average payload of 8 passenger???
€105 million in capital cost to accommodate 34,235 passenger trips per annum???

Why is the debate about further extensions north and reviews in 2016 even being contemplated. What is wrong with Government when No minister can simply say enough is enough this charade is over. The WRC is over, we will no longer listen to or even contemplate this nonsense any longer.

WTF is actually going on in Government - Decisions need to be made what is all the dithering about?

I don't think anybody seriously expects the phase to Tuam to start anytime soon, parish pump politicians will play along and promise things they can't deliver though, nothing new there.

As for Ennis - Athenry, the €105m has been spent, closing the line won't get it back, the trains are already bought, there are excess trains all over the network now, so they are not taking from services needed elsewhere.

The actual operating cost of running through from Galway to Limerick with 1 driver instead of the trains turning around in Ennis or Athenry etc. is not that high, I am not sure what sort of real saving would be made in closing the line at this stage.

monument

rainbowdash wrote: »

The actual operating cost of running through from Galway to Limerick with 1 driver instead of the trains turning around in Ennis or Athenry etc. is not that high, I am not sure what sort of real saving would be made in closing the line at this stage.

Except it is not just one driver and there's loads of other costs, such as fuel costs, the maintenance of the line, the maintenance of the trains, etc...