Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

Grandeeod

Lets talk about this Tuam angle. I know nothing about any greenway up there and I have no wish to draw the wrath of wind up merchants who still think that the WRC is a viable concern. However, since joining this forum after many long hours spent researching the history of the WRC, I still believe that the thing is a turkey. But and I mean this, greenways will not kill off the WRC. While I think that greenways are a fantastic amenity, what will ultimately kill off the WRC is hard economic fact. That said, the Tuam - Athenry section was perhaps the only section that stood any chance of decent usage. But during the whole parish pump/national/internet/government debate, reality got side tracked. I realise that the discussion has gone on and on and on, but I reckon the Ennis - Athenry section got the nod based on milege and its rather dubious claim to being a sustainable intercity link. Well we know its not. Go back a few years and the real credibility for rail reopenings was commuter based. Mideleton got the go ahead after very genuine years of studies and related planning. Its working because its commuter based. Galway never carried out similar studies. Navan was on the cards, despite being off the scale in terms of a CBA. We got Pace, which was always the preferred option, despite it being an absolute waste of time and it really is. But Tuam - Athenry may have had a chance because the road infrastructure was poor. The commuter traffic was substantial in western terms. However WOT never really understood this. They really just wanted the entire route reopened in any way possible so as to reinforce the dream of a fiddly diddly railway up the west coast. A dream that was promoted by a cleric circa 1980 based on a very different Ireland. I've had the pleasure of reading Fr. McGreils original report.:rolleyes: WOT have completely ruined the further development of the WRC. They have created a case for closing railways. People like the guys from Platform 11 were so correct regarding the WRC. That said, I do realise that the ultimate responsibility lies with the politicians. They argued. The Government reacted. We had more money than sense in those days. If common sensed had prevailed Tuam - Athenry would be open and maybe delivering more revenue. But its not.

Grandeeod

Rocky Bay wrote: »

"Enough already - Next stop Derry", I could not put it better myself except to add one of my favourite phrases and possible epithaph ..."Keep on trucking...by train". Imagine seeing containers coming off ships in Cork or Waterford harbours and being railed all the way to Derry. I hope I live to see it. And when the first train out of Cork for Derry departs I hope to be on that as well.

You are having a laugh. In the grand scheme of things and based on reality, that could constitute trolling. Seriously.

Grandeeod

Richard Logue wrote: »

On a more serious note, the sheer inadequacy of the public transport system across the West is set out in this letter following on from a piece in Saturday's Irish Times where Cancer patients from Donegal have to rely on volunteers to get transport to Galway for their chemotherapy sessions.

Donegal in particular is almost completely isolated from the rest of the state, while busy locations like Cork, Galway and Dublin get their luxury private coaches to compete with railway services, Donegal gets...almost nothing.

Never mind pandering to foreign tourists who want to buy the odd gansey in a craft shop, what about looking after our own and start thinking about a properly integrated transport system for the West!

http://www.irishtimes.com/debate/letters/cancer-the-toughest-journey-1.1324594

Properly integrated transport system for the west?

Despite the population differences, properly integrated transport in the east is still lacking. Cart before horse and all that. Alternatively you could blame it on the fact that the majority of Irish politicians are rural based and havent got a clue about transport except for the car. But thats the system for you. Ireland lags way behind the rest of Europe in terms of population density. Maybe it needs an Irish solution. Maybe not. But a friggin rail line up the west coast via no mans lands, shouldn't be a priority.

westtip

fullgas wrote: »

I don't see how spending €38m and a 95% (at least) operating subvention represents good value for money. Imagine the opportunity cost in operating a train for c. 8 people.

Does anyone have a link to the revised costings by IÉ?

I shouldn't worry too much about it, WOT are just putting out a bit of spin as the Greenway lobby is growing the whole way along the line from Athenry to Colooney - they (WOT) really don't like the people saying this is what they want as for so long the WOT view has been the only view in town - so they spin out lines usually along the lines of the democratically elected councillors in the west support it, that every quango in the west supports it but guess what , there is no longer a crying demand for the WRC from Da People of the Wesht. In fact Da People of da wesht who are far more astute than many give them credit for - know full well there is going to be no railway, they no full well we need places to walk and cycle, they can see the success of the great western greenway - and this simple idea to have a greenway on this old rail line is how the penny is beginning to drop for many of da people of the wesht. Its no longer being the drivers of the debate that WOT don't like - the new view is the one that is winning all the arguments.

Sponge Bob

Indeed Rocky Bay, after a long cold winter spring is in the air and them freight trains are the new Gold standard.

Foynes is a special case, lots of exploration for Zinc around there at present. Might be back in action in about 3 years. As for Derry mmmmmm yah!

westtip

Richard Logue wrote: »

I don't think anyone needs to provide proof of their personal opinions, this is not a court of law.

Not suggesting you do - but you did make a rather sweeping statement that seemed to suggest the WRC would take high volumes of trucks going from Cork to Derry off the road, West on Track made ludicrous forecasts for passenger numbers between Ennis and Athenry, so at some point those asking for this railway to be built will be asked to quantify the demand for it? At some point proof will be needed.

corktina

i've no problem in accepting freight trains to Derry, just that we don't need to pay for a railway line first as there already is one. I've lost count how many times I've pointed that out and not once has the person in question come back and said "oh yes, forgot that"

Sponge Bob

corktina wrote: »

I've lost count how many times I've pointed that out and not once has the person in question come back and said "oh yes, forgot that"

WOT would not overtly campaign for a Cooloney - Enniskillen - Derry line or for something further west again along the coast would they....people would think they are pure cracked if they did.

They will stick to Athenry - Tuam for now, the only heavy rail alignment on the entire route they selected.

nebel1

corktina wrote: »

How do you propose Patients from Donegal get to Galway by train? Even if the WRC was fully reopened, that would only run as far north as Sligo.

On the other hand, the ROAD improvements proposed for the Atlantic corridor would serve their needs and those of a vast number of people from Donegal to Kerry and Cork.
Just to remind you, the section of the WRC already open, which runs between the two main cities in the west, carries an average of just over 8 passengers per train.
I would suggest that as many patients from Limerick attend hospital in Galway as from Donegal, and yet they patently are not using the train to get there!

I read that article and the main thing that came out was that cancer patients has to use a bus funded by bucket collections to get to Galway.

It wasn't a case of why they couldn't get a train but more a case of why couldn't they have a proper state-funded service be it via Bus Eireann or a steady/reliable/regular private service.

corktina

nebel1 wrote: »

I read that article and the main thing that came out was that cancer patients has to use a bus funded by bucket collections to get to Galway.

It wasn't a case of why they couldn't get a train but more a case of why couldn't they have a proper state-funded service be it via Bus Eireann or a steady/reliable/regular private service.

I realise that....but as this is a thread on the WRC, one would presume anyone quoting the need for Hospital visits to Galway is demanding that a rail line should be provided. But as we are so far off topic, I'd like to point out that in cases of real hardship, a call to the Social Welfare Officer would suffice to pay the bus fare.

Richard Logue

corktina wrote: »

I realise that....but as this is a thread on the WRC, one would presume anyone quoting the need for Hospital visits to Galway is demanding that a rail line should be provided. But as we are so far off topic, I'd like to point out that in cases of real hardship, a call to the Social Welfare Officer would suffice to pay the bus fare.

I dont think it's in any way off topic. The point of the article was that as Donegal cancer patients have to travel all the way to Galway for treatment and the existing bus services take far too long as they stand. Donegal is isolated enough from Dublin but to get to Galway via Bus Eireann takes far too long at present.

The public transportation system for Donegal to the rest of the state is woefully inadequate and I make the point that while private operators are happy to cream off the key Inter City routes neither Bus Eireann or the private operators seem to be giving Donegal the transport system it needs. This is a wider issue for the west rather than just a train service to Tuam.

corktina

Richard Logue wrote: »

I dont think it's in any way off topic. The point of the article was that as Donegal cancer patients have to travel all the way to Galway for treatment and the existing bus services take far too long as they stand. Donegal is isolated enough from Dublin but to get to Galway via Bus Eireann takes far too long at present.

The public transportation system for Donegal to the rest of the state is woefully inadequate and I make the point that while private operators are happy to cream off the key Inter City routes neither Bus Eireann or the private operators seem to be giving Donegal the transport system it needs. This is a wider issue for the west rather than just a train service to Tuam.

Well one things for sure, IE won't be stepping into the breach to take patients from Donegal to Galway!

I would suggest you start a new thread asking for improved bus services and the implied road improvements that would need (both on the so-called Atlantic Corridor and to Dublin no doubt, as that is where the biggest demand for transport surely lies).You will get a lot of support for that, but not a lot for an impractical Railway Line.

Sponge Bob

Richard Logue wrote: »

I dont think it's in any way off topic. The point of the article was that as Donegal cancer patients have to travel all the way to Galway for treatment and the existing bus services take far too long as they stand. Donegal is isolated enough from Dublin but to get to Galway via Bus Eireann takes far too long at present.

Richard.

Limerick patients will also be sent to Galway for ongoing cancer treatment. They are also in that catchment.

Imagine a cancer patient from Limerick Junction stuck on a train for 3 hours to get to a hospital less than 100 miles away and a Rail based experience hardly trumps that of a Bus on a substandard road which is what Donegal people are exposed to.

I can get from Galway to James' hospital in well under that time by an almost hourly express bus and including a 10 minute walk at the end or taxi from Heuston.

Westtip and I have extensively commented on the need for a decent road network and express buses in the west. None of this is new.

Rocky Bay

Grandeeod wrote: »

You are having a laugh. In the grand scheme of things and based on reality, that could constitute trolling. Seriously.

Not having a laugh and could not be more serious. 29 years on the railway have taught me that the most efficient way to move is the steel wheel on a steel rail bar none with exceptions acknowleged. I may not live long enough to purchase a ticket from Cork to Derry via the WRC or to observe a northbound container train out of the Cork harbour area but at least I can see beyond the ......"tip" of my nose.

loyatemu

Rocky Bay wrote: »

I may not live long enough to purchase a ticket from Cork to Derry.

isn't this already possible?

corktina

Rocky Bay wrote: »

Not having a laugh and could not be more serious. 29 years on the railway have taught me that the most efficient way to move is the steel wheel on a steel rail bar none with exceptions acknowleged. I may not live long enough to purchase a ticket from Cork to Derry or to observe a northbound container train out of the Cork harbour area but at least I can see beyond the ......"tip" of my nose.

29 years on the railway and you don't know you can get a train from Cork to Derry TODAY and whats more ON A PRIV TICKET! Oh dear oh dear

foggy_lad

corktina wrote: »

29 years on the railway and you don't know you can get a train from Cork to Derry TODAY and whats more ON A PRIV TICKET! Oh dear oh dear

You can get a train a luas or bus then two further trains before you reach Derry, If using a free travel pass you will have to pay for the Belfast-Derry part of the journey.

corktina

foggy_lad wrote: »

You can get a train a luas or bus then two further trains before you reach Derry, If using a free travel pass you will have to pay for the Belfast-Derry part of the journey.

and the alternative route via the WRC? :rolleyes:

foggy_lad

corktina wrote: »

and the alternative route via the WRC? :rolleyes:

I don't think it could ever be done in a day or even two days.

Hungerford

foggy_lad wrote: »

You can get a train a luas or bus then two further trains before you reach Derry, If using a free travel pass you will have to pay for the Belfast-Derry part of the journey.

Unless you are over 65.

Rocky Bay

loyatemu wrote: »

isn't this already possible?

Yes, via Belfast.

corktina

Rocky Bay wrote: »

Yes, via Belfast.

and thats bad because....?

foggy_lad

Hungerford wrote: »

Unless you are over 65.

Only if you have applied for and received the senior smart pass for travel in the north.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

westtip

MayoForSam wrote: »

From that article: Big push on in Tuam at the moment to get the politicians off the fence and start making decisions, time to get the public engaged: http://www.tuamherald.ie/2013/03/13/tuam-greenway-group-step-up-campaign-for-controversial-cycle-route/

The WOT conference in Tuam in May could be interesting

Apparently Tuam Greenway project have got thousands signed up on a petition of support, I wonder how the local councillors will react. The Tuam Greenway project had a float in the parade in Tuam yesterday. They are really giving the idea a big push and getting a lot of support in the town. West on Track have tried to push the idea away but it seems local support is growing.

corktina

perhaps cleverly (and seeing the writing on the wall) they are pushing for a Greenway NORTH of Tuam afaik

Sponge Bob

corktina wrote: »

perhaps cleverly (and seeing the writing on the wall) they are pushing for a Greenway NORTH of Tuam afaik

They are. Tuam Athenry is a sort of no mans land for now, the Greenway people are ignoring WOT which is the best thing to do anyway and WOT are claiming it will cost less than previously estimated to reopen Tuam - Athenry. Big Conference in Tuam in May...whos got the Invite so far???

Making matters even more fluid is the construction of the M17 due to commence in 2013 ...some time...and including a dual carriageway non motorway Tuam Bypass at its very northen end.

I have even heard a tiny rumour of a Tuam Parkway station being punted on the western outskirts of Tuam. Some might even call it the "Sugar Factory Station" but it is allegedly aimed at Park and Ride traffic......to Dublin some say.....and to be built along with the Athenry line and the Tuam Central station refurb.

westtip

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Making matters even more fluid is the construction of the M17 due to commence in 2013 ...some time...and including a dual carriageway non motorway Tuam Bypass at its very northen end.

As we have all pretty much agreed the motorway that will swing in north of Tuam effectively kills the WRC north of Athenry. The Tuam Greenway project is looking to go north of the town and clearly state in their petition it (the greenway) can be put to one side as and when a railway becomes feasible. If Tuam Greenway succeeds the arguments for the Sligo mayo greenway - claremorris - Colooney will be a shoe in, I think they already are in many circles at this stage. The 2016 review of the Athenry Tuam option will result in more long fingering. West on Track can huff and puff at their conference, no government is going to deliver for them, they know that, we know that, the dogs on the proverbial know it. These are afterall the group that told us the WRC when opened would bring hundreds of jobs to the area. .... hundreds of passengers would be handy.

And no I've not got an invite yet. Is Leo Varadkar going?

Sponge Bob

westtip wrote: »

And no I've not got an invite yet. Is Leo Varadkar going?

Do you know a tame TD who can ask him the question??

The Sugar Factory Station, by the way, will be presented as a straight swap for not reopening Castlegrove station (long shut and sold off and located in the middle of nowhere HERE) and also as a shuttle bus stop for Knock Airport so you can get from Limerick/Shannon/GalwayDublin to Knock Airport without too many changes along the way. This also stops that pesky Greenway from coming into Tuam itself.

Leo will be so happy to hear that at the conference...if he is daft enough to attend that is. Latest propoganda.

http://galwayindependent.com/stories/item/6417/2013-12/Tuam-Galway-rail-%27back-on-track%27

The revised estimate of project, which is currently on hold, showed that the project would now cost €38m, represents a saving of more than €20m on the original costing.

and

Our understanding is that there is a strong business case for this extension of the Galway commuter rail zone. The Athenry-Claremorris railway is not officially closed but rather its status is that of a ‘siding in engineer’s possession’. Recent suggestions that the railway should be turned into a walking or cycling route appear to ignore this and would be unlikely to be supported by Iarnród Éireann,” said a spokesperson for the lobby group.

The spokesperson continued to say that the outgoing CEO of Iarnród Éireann Dick Fearn had recently told West on Track that a greenway would be “entirely incompatible” with any proposed future development of the rail route either for freight or passenger traffic.

So there!

Both the Tuam-Galway Commuter Rail Project and the freight corridor development will be on the agenda at the forthcoming West on Track delegate conference in the Ard Rí Hotel Tuam in May.

Who exactly is delegating people to this shindig???

fullgas

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Both the Tuam-Galway Commuter Rail Project and the freight corridor development will be on the agenda at the forthcoming West on Track delegate conference in the Ard Rí Hotel Tuam in May.

Who exactly is delegating people to this shindig???

Has any rail freight used phase 1 of the WRC Limerick to Galway?

Also WOT has once again being exposed for cooking the numbers :pac:

Iarnród Éireann denies €20m cost for WRC extension

A claim that extending the Western Rail Corridor to Tuam would cost €20 million less than previously thought was refuted by Iarnród Éireann this week. A spokesperson for the company said the revised projection is not for the original Tuam to Athenry project but a “lesser scheme”.

...

“The revised costing quoted by West on Track is not for the original Tuam to Athenry project as envisaged under Transport 21, but rather for a desktop estimate by Iarnród Éireann of the cost of a lesser scheme.
“This lesser scheme would have slower speeds, no signalling and passing loops, meaning no more than one train could be on the line at any time, allowing fewer services to operate, no station at Ballyglunin, no removal of level crossings, and a number of other reductions to the original project.”
The company also ruled out the possibility of any cycleway on the route in the near future saying it “is committed to retaining ownership of the alignment and protecting the alignment so as it remains available for a future rail line”.


http://www.clarechampion.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=13562:iarnrod-eireann-denies-20m-cost-for-wrc-extension&catid=42:transport&Itemid=60

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLnJrYYdzq0