Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

eastwest

Deleted User wrote: »

Personally, I believe that a golden opportunity was recently missed when the LUAS was extended to Broombridge.
It should have stopped at Broadstone and the station reopened along with the Athlone - Mullingar line, this would have provided an alternative path into Dublin for commuters from the West & Northwest, while releasing capacity on the east coast lines.

That's the kind of thinking that is often missing from infrastructural planning. Thankfully at least the Mullingar-Athlone route is now safeguarded by the greenway in case it is ever needed for such a scenario.

andrewfaulk

eastwest wrote: »

That's the kind of thinking that is often missing from infrastructural planning. Thankfully at least the Mullingar-Athlone route is now safeguarded by the greenway in case it is ever needed for such a scenario.

Would echo dolanbaker on this.. been saying this for years and with a second busaurus on site also.. Would have created a transport hub within walking distance of Smithfield and the quays, with Luas connections through to sandy ford and brides glen

Grandeeod

Deleted User wrote: »

Personally, I believe that a golden opportunity was recently missed when the LUAS was extended to Broombridge.
It should have stopped at Broadstone and the station reopened along with the Athlone - Mullingar line, this would have provided an alternative path into Dublin for commuters from the West & Northwest, while releasing capacity on the east coast lines.

No doubt about it. But it was buried by the then Transport Minister a few years ago. Not that CIE would have been that visionary anyway. They were only looking at Broadstone in relation to Navan line.

eastwest wrote: »

That's the kind of thinking that is often missing from infrastructural planning. Thankfully at least the Mullingar-Athlone route is now safeguarded by the greenway in case it is ever needed for such a scenario.

But it's point of destination is now luas and there won't be any changing that.

Grandeeod

Grandeeod wrote: »

No doubt about it. But it was buried by the then Transport Minister a few years ago. Not that CIE would have been that visionary anyway. They were only looking at Broadstone in relation to Navan line.



But it's point of destination is now luas and there won't be any changing that.

Replacing the tramlines isn't that big a task, just an expensive waste of new infrastructure, but if the line was rerouted to the north to meet the M50 at Ballymun with a P+R it could work well, the line between Broadstone & Broombridge can be dual gauge to retain the maintenance facilities there.

Lord Glentoran

eastwest wrote: »

That's the kind of thinking that is often missing from infrastructural planning. Thankfully at least the Mullingar-Athlone route is now safeguarded by the greenway in case it is ever needed for such a scenario.

Will it be handed over for railway use in that case, I wonder?

eastwest

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Will it be handed over for railway use in that case, I wonder?

It belongs to CIE, so it's their call.
The greenway is built on condition that rail has precedent.

eastwest

eastwest wrote: »

It belongs to CIE, so it's their call.
The greenway is built on condition that rail has precedent.

I would imagine that if there is ever a rail revival on that line, the greenway will be worn out and due for major resurfacing and repairs.

So no real loss, the greenway developers will get their money's worth out of it.

Grandeeod

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

It’s remarkable that bypasses and motorways open up land for development though. You would be forgiven for believing that vested interests want money spent on railways diverted to road building.

The only interest I have in your quoted post is the person that thanked it. As usual avoiding any kind of questioning or provision of supporting information to back up a wild claim.

Lord Glentoran

Grandeeod wrote: »

The only interest I have in your quoted post is the person that thanked it. As usual avoiding any kind of questioning or provision of supporting information to back up a wild claim.

I haven't made a claim, merely an expression that one would be forgiven for believing that. The burden of proof doesn't apply. As Westtip said,

Indeedie, what I cannot take serious though is takng this thread serious, I mean for all of ye, isn't it just a bit of a giggle, like banter down the pub, now and again engaging seriously. I mean come on, are there really people out there who give a fiddlers puck what happens or what is said on this thread?

Lord Glentoran

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

I haven't made a claim, merely an expression that one would be forgiven for believing that. The burden of proof doesn't apply. As Westtip said,

You're forgiven

Encroachment on the WRC. A greenway will protect the route until such time as it passes the required assessments and becomes a viable project.

Given that Irish Rail are actively looking to formally abandon sections of the route, if its not taken by the greenway, it'll be lost to gardens, cows and crops forever

eastwest

Deleted User wrote: »

Encroachment on the WRC. A greenway will protect the route until such time as it passes the required assessments and becomes a viable project.

Given that Irish Rail are actively looking to formally abandon sections of the route, if its not taken by the greenway, it'll be lost to gardens, cows and crops forever

But they have the LUAS up in Dublin.

Muckyboots

Deleted User wrote: »

Encroachment on the WRC. A greenway will protect the route until such time as it passes the required assessments and becomes a viable project.

Given that Irish Rail are actively looking to formally abandon sections of the route, if its not taken by the greenway, it'll be lost to gardens, cows and crops forever

It's quality posts like this that have made this thread worthwhile.

Lord Glentoran

Muckyboots wrote: »

It's quality posts like this that have made this thread worthwhile.

Interestingly though, they haven’t abandoned any section of the line between Athenry and Sligo yet. Assertion of title by Irish Rail done this way:



For anything else CIÉ are perfectly within their rights to run a rail-road JCB over any other encroachment, and should do so.

Lord Glentoran

Deleted User wrote: »

You're forgiven

Ego te absolvo, tuo.

marno21

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Interestingly though, they haven’t abandoned any section of the line between Athenry and Sligo yet. Assertion of title by Irish Rail done this way:



For anything else CIÉ are perfectly within their rights to run a rail-road JCB over any other encroachment, and should do so.

Of course they are but given they are looking to abandon these lines that wouldn't do much for their case

Lord Glentoran

marno21 wrote: »

Of course they are but given they are looking to abandon these lines that wouldn't do much for their case

It’s two years since that kite was flown. They’ve done the works illustrated since then.

westtip

Deleted User wrote: »

Encroachment on the WRC. A greenway will protect the route until such time as it passes the required assessments and becomes a viable project.

Given that Irish Rail are actively looking to formally abandon sections of the route, if its not taken by the greenway, it'll be lost to gardens, cows and crops forever

Funny how this is exactly the kind of example West on Track have never highlighted in any of their facebook posts or press releases.

Grandeeod

westtip wrote: »

Funny how this is exactly the kind of example West on Track have never highlighted in any of their facebook posts or press releases.

14 years ago this was pointed out to them and they have been overwhelmingly consistent in ignoring the issue of encroachment of the line between Claremorris and Colooney. You could tell them there are mass graves underneath the line and you'd still meet a wall of silence. It now makes me laugh.:D

eastwest

Grandeeod wrote: »

14 years ago this was pointed out to them and they have been overwhelmingly consistent in ignoring the issue of encroachment of the line between Claremorris and Colooney. You could tell them there are mass graves underneath the line and you'd still meet a wall of silence. It now makes me laugh.:D

West on track has long given up on Claremorris Collooney, apart from a few diehards who still believe.
The brains in West on track seem to be focused for some reason on a freight line from Athenry to Claremorris, despite the fact that their friends on the WDC were unable to prove a case for freight in their consultancy report on freight.

Grandeeod

eastwest wrote: »

West on track has long given up on Claremorris Collooney, apart from a few diehards who still believe.
The brains in West on track seem to be focused for some reason on a freight line from Athenry to Claremorris, despite the fact that their friends on the WDC were unable to prove a case for freight in their consultancy report on freight.

Another few years and there'll be gardens, driveways and **** over that line too.

I'm in my "near end of thread" mode.:D

Lord Glentoran

Grandeeod wrote: »

Another few years and there'll be gardens, driveways and **** over that line too.

I'm in my "near end of thread" mode.:D

I hear the memory of Magnus Magnusson saying "I've started so I'll finish"

ohographite

Are there people using this disused railway as it is to go for walks or does the warning sign stop people from using it?
Activeme.ie seems to list Tuam to Collooney as a walking route:
https://www.activeme.ie/guides/walks/disused-railway-collooney-to-tuam/

Corca Baiscinn

Grandeeod wrote: »

Another few years and there'll be gardens, driveways and **** over that line too.

I'm in my "near end of thread" mode.:D

Couldn't Collooney to Bellaghy be a Greenway in another few years! SCC on board!

mayo.mick

Grandeeod wrote: »

Another few years and there'll be gardens, driveways and **** over that line too.

I'm in my "near end of thread" mode.:D

Corca Baiscinn

mayo.mick wrote: »

OMG! Def not photo-shopped? Or trendy railway sleepers from a salvage yard! Suppose if IR had lost interest there was nothing/nobody to stop them? Do CoCo not have any role, presumbly not in compliance with PP?

Grandeeod

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

I hear the memory of Magnus Magnusson saying "I've started so I'll finish"

I sure will and why not.:D

Lord Glentoran

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

OMG! Def not photo-shopped? Or trendy railway sleepers from a salvage yard! Suppose if IR had lost interest there was nothing/nobody to stop them? Do CoCo not have any role, presumbly not in compliance with PP?

That picture isn't exactly new, probably first came up half way through this thread. Up near Collooney I think.

eastwest

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Couldn't Collooney to Bellaghy be a Greenway in another few years! SCC on board!

Yes, that is happening, although it is being fought by a few local diehards and funding may be delayed by a WOT senator who has fought against the project.

eastwest

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

That picture isn't exactly new, probably first came up half way through this thread. Up near Collooney I think.

And nothing done about it since. Getting ever closer to adverse possession, and making a nonsense of any talk about Irish Rail driving a 'unit' down the route.

Lord Glentoran

eastwest wrote: »

And nothing done about it since. Getting ever closer to adverse possession, and making a nonsense of any talk about Irish Rail driving a 'unit' down the route.

Oh if CIÉ want it, they will have it. A thirty year adverse possession claim against the railway failed at High Court and was confirmed on appeal to the Supreme Court.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/man-who-used-cié-field-for-30-years-loses-case-1.2737966

Lord Glentoran

In the meanwhile, here’s a glorious rant from the original thread.

‘This is 2009 - deal with it!’

Nostradamus says that the Sligo line is like a ghost train now with nobody using it but from what I see at Connolly I would dispute this and would suggest that the increased frequency on the line may have spread out the passengers a bit more evenly.
I said compared to a couple of years ago when the frequecy was increased. There are far less people on the Dublin-Sligo train now. However, the N4 has as many cars as ever and the bus eireann Charlestown-Dublin service which I now take instead of the trains, costs me HALF the PRICE and gets there in the about the same time, on a comfortable bus, with a refreshments and toilet break at Longford.

What's part of this do you not understand? The Inter-City train is a luxury for most Irish people now. We are in the midst of an economic depression and not all of us are employed in the public sector and therefore we are forced to live within a certain economic reality.

There is no civil service department, nor QUANGO paying for my train ticket to the next West on Track magical event. I lose money if I take a day of work to listen to some miricle struck priest demanding Irish tax payers fund his red carpet through the Pearly Gates in front of a goups of excited trainspotters from outside the West of Ireland. This still happening while funding to the likes of Crumlin's Children's Hospital is being reduced and bills being passed through the Dail trying to make Blasphemy as jailable offense. Who has their head up their backsides here? People like me, or 'social justice choo-choo/Our Lady of Knock' brigade?

Many Irish people have to live in the real world. The bus is good enough when the cashflow is down and you have to pay your own fare.

The Western Rail Corridor is an offensive and sickening indulgence considered how bad the Irish economy is now. Same for Clonmel - Rosslare (section), Limerick-Ballybrophy. WIPE THEM OFF THE RAIL MAP AND BUILD THE INTERCONNECTOR AND METRO NORTH NOW.

Terminate all Sligo rail services at Longford, Westport and Ballina services at Athlone. Keep the lines open and maintained - only run specials, fully booked services on them such as GAA etc. Open up the bus market to full deregulation. If the regional newspapers, TDs and councillors, WoT, Clergy complain, then let them organise trains and pack them with passengers if they are so sure of the demand. Nothing to stop them from using local financial resources to lease trains for the this "huge demand"...I am sure every business man in Connacht will be dipping in his pocket and every civil servant in the Department or Teaching profressionar in Connacht will be only to happy to have their salary garnish to fund a start-up of these "vital" servvices. Sure they could have a collection box at the Basillica at Knock!

We need improved medical services here in the West and good bus services to get people to them, not empty trains running across the fields.

This is 2009 - deal with it.
If you care about rail transport in Ireland you quickly come to the conclusion it has to be COMMUTERS OR OBLIVION.

Accidentally

ohographite wrote: »

Are there people using this disused railway as it is to go for walks or does the warning sign stop people from using it?
Activeme.ie seems to list Tuam to Collooney as a walking route:
https://www.activeme.ie/guides/walks/disused-railway-collooney-to-tuam/

I don't think anyone's paid any attention to the signs for at least the last decade. Sections of it are used by walkers, but I've no idea if you can walk all the way through without meeting walls of brambles. I just view it as a very long thin nature reserve.

westtip

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Oh if CIÉ want it, they will have it. A thirty year adverse possession claim against the railway failed at High Court and was confirmed on appeal to the Supreme Court.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/man-who-used-cié-field-for-30-years-loses-case-1.2737966

Forgotten about that case, great news for the greenway in Sligo at least where people have fenced in the remnants of the closed railway as if they own it in their gardens.

Lord Glentoran

westtip wrote: »

Forgotten about that case, great news for the greenway in Sligo at least where people have fenced in the remnants of the closed railway as if they own it in their gardens.

Well if any use is going to be made of the trackbed, it will be CIÉ driving the JCBs down it..

Del.Monte

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

In the meanwhile, here’s a glorious rant from the original thread.

‘This is 2009 - deal with it!’

That post was not by Judgement Day!!

Lord Glentoran

Del.Monte wrote: »

That post was not by Judgement Day!!

You're right - the rant quoted JD on the top of the post. I'll edit...

Corca Baiscinn

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

That picture isn't exactly new, probably first came up half way through this thread. Up near Collooney I think.

Hadn't seen it, wasn't a member when thread started in 2009, not sure when half-way point was reached but it's a verrrrry long thread so forgive me!

Lord Glentoran

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Hadn't seen it, wasn't a member when thread started in 2009, not sure when half-way point was reached but it's a verrrrry long thread so forgive me!

No problem

Isambard

Del.Monte wrote: »

That post was not by Judgement Day!!

Mr Del Monte...he say "no!"

Grandeeod

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Hadn't seen it, wasn't a member when thread started in 2009, not sure when half-way point was reached but it's a verrrrry long thread so forgive me!

That info was made available as far back as 2004. The entire encroachment issue is around that long. Ignored by WOT too.

Lord Glentoran

Grandeeod wrote: »

That info was made available as far back as 2004. The entire encroachment issue is around that long. Ignored by WOT too.

Not by me (though I'm not WOT)

eastwest

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Not by me (though I'm not WOT)

But if course you're not.
WOT reckon that the wrc is 'not up for discussion'.

Lord Glentoran

eastwest wrote: »

But if course you're not.
WOT reckon that the wrc is 'not up for discussion'.

And as far as I can see, they've never discussed it here. Yet this thread is near the 10,000 post mark. I'd call that Impressive.

Isambard

even though they don't comment, I stand by my opinion that they are amongst us and hang on our every word.

Lord Glentoran

Isambard wrote: »

even though they don't comment, I stand by my opinion that they are amongst us and hang on our every word.

An awesome feeling, is it not?

westtip

Isambard wrote: »

even though they don't comment, I stand by my opinion that they are amongst us and hang on our every word.

I think most of us would agree it really doesn't matter what is written on this thread, about this, there are probably less than 10 people reading it and contributing, what really does matter is the thousands of people in Tuam who support the greenway, the real people who have become members of the Sligo greenway co-op, the real people that support the Kiltimagh greenway group, that is what really matters, and in truth that is what must hurt WOT most, that they no longer hold sway over public opinion on this matter; yes they still have their political cronies like Sean Canney and Sean Kyne, but the greenway campaign also has its political support now, like the entire Sligo County Council and two prominent members of the Dail in Galway East and backbenchers in Sligo who support the greenway campaign. Not to mention the businesses along the route and in Tuam in particular who support the greenway (in towns north of Charlestown the Sligo business community is 100% supportive of the greenway). This thread has had some influence on thinking and debate but in truth ideas and influence have been driven more on Facebook due to its greater reach and the way in which certain members of the greenway campaign have skillfully managed the media content in regard to the greenway in both national and regional media. I have no doubt WOT probably still read this thread, as we allow our thought process to come out here, and it must concern them that a campaign that did not exist when they came on the scene has virtually driven the debate in the public media about the so called Western Rail Corridor for about ten years now. The greenway along the route is very much part of the political consciousness now. Thanks in no small part to a handful of people.

Lord Glentoran

westtip wrote: »

I think most of us would agree it really doesn't matter what is written on this thread, about this, there are probably less than 10 people reading it and contributing, what really does matter is the thousands of people in Tuam who support the greenway, the real people who have become members of the Sligo greenway co-op, the real people that support the Kiltimagh greenway group, that is what really matters, and in truth that is what must hurt WOT most, that they no longer hold sway over public opinion on this matter; yes they still have their political cronies like Sean Canney and Sean Kyne, but the greenway campaign also has its political support now, like the entire Sligo County Council and two prominent members of the Dail in Galway East and backbenchers in Sligo who support the greenway campaign. Not to mention the businesses along the route and in Tuam in particular who support the greenway (in towns north of Charlestown the Sligo business community is 100% supportive of the greenway). This thread has had some influence on thinking and debate but in truth ideas and influence have been driven more on Facebook due to its greater reach and the way in which certain members of the greenway campaign have skillfully managed the media content in regard to the greenway in both national and regional media. I have no doubt WOT probably still read this thread, as we allow our thought process to come out here, and it must concern them that a campaign that did not exist when they came on the scene has virtually driven the debate in the public media about the so called Western Rail Corridor for about ten years now. The greenway along the route is very much part of the political consciousness now. Thanks in no small part to a handful of people.

Its an interesting turnaround then from this report in 2009:

Ah Derek another timely reminder of the reality of it all - I see in the Galway news they reported thousands signing a petition in Tuam for the extension of the WRCNOA (new abbreviation for WRC North of Athenry)and the Govt to throw out the direct recommendation of An bord Snip,

http://www.galwaynews.ie/8973-thousa...-rail-corridor

Quote:
“THOUSANDS VOICE OPPOSITION TO PROPOSALS TO HALT WESTERN RAIL CORRIDOR
Sun 27th September 2009
Thousands of people in Tuam have voiced their opposition to proposals to abandon phase two of the Western rail corridor.

Over three thousand signatures were collected at four campaign stands in Tuam yesterday, which were organised by the town council.

People signing say they're completely opposed to recent proposal from An Bord Snip, which recommend that the Western rail corridor be finished in Athenry"

You see this in itself is not news but news creation to suit your own needs - a common trick by PR campaigners - get people to sign a simple petition and "prove your case" - lets add a caveat to this report - I wonder how many of those three thousand who reportedly signed up for support of the WRCNOA were public sector employees, or claimed any form of social welfare I wonder how many owned their own private residences - you see the point is this . We are totally F****ked, thanks to the finanancial mismanagement of our government and now we are faced with choices:

Cut public sector pay by 5% according to yesterdays Sunday Times

Introduce new taxes, like rates (which the rest of Europe has BTW)

Cut social welfare payments

Or if we are not prepared to to do the above - well as the Sunday Times reported yesterday on its front page said:

Quote:
Sunday Times front page yesterday:"A number of ministers are preparing to press for a reduction in next years national development plan funding of up to 1.5 billion"
Now were these options put to the 3000 signatories in Tuam?? So what do you folks in Tuam want: Your railway to Eyre Square via Athenry which I doubt 95% of the 3000 who reportedly signed the most recent petition will use - or cuts in your social welfare, public sector pay, and the introduction of rates.

The truth is the WRCNOA is now so far down the pecking order of national priorities it will inevitably be axed.....or some plattitudes about preserving the line etc until times get better etc will be spun out...

However, knowing this reality, I confidently predict we will see a steady stream of press releases from various bodies and organisations about how vital this trainline is and interlinked stories over the next two months. I presume that WOT are busy writing the back up news release to the news from the WDC published last week - to keep the whole WRCNOA in the public eye - they are masters of managing the media in the west - I await to see the next "story" in the western people - West on Track states how the Western Development Council data further supports the case for the WRCNOA and how everyone living in Dublin 4 is plotting against them,. and hwo this vital piece of infrastructure must go ahead....... think you know the jist of what they usually say. The people of the west cannot be ignored any longer etc (yeh right look at the Sligo Cancer facility campaign!!)

This way they make the myth become a seeming reality.

Of course, as we all know - it won't happen - cos we are broke and in truth its not needed - but another book needs to be written on that one!

Now lets look at that piece from the Western Development Council and the line that says:
Quote:
“There is significant congestion on the current primary road network into Galway city, particularly the N17 and N18, suggesting latent demand for commuter rail services,”

This sentence belies credibility - Surely what these people in their cars want going to places like Balybrit to work is an improved N17/18 and a bypass of Claregalway; wake up, these people are not going to get out of the comfort of their cars for second rate commuter train service. they might use a better bus service if it actually took them to where they want to go, and was flexible and ran on time and had later night services - but they are not all heading for five minutes walking distance of Eyre Square and they all want the flexibility of their cars to get home at night. The latent demand for commuter rail service does not exist! Get the buses in order for a fraction of the cost and you will solve the public transport issues in Galway and routes into Galway
Last edited by westtip; 28-09-2009 at 17:23.

I would be inclined to disagree.

This thread is what prompted my interest in the topic, has allowed me to keep up with all the goings on from all sides and has motivated me to actually get involved at a local level (more to follow in a few weeks)

westtip

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Its an interesting turnaround then from this report in 2009:

Lord GnT good too see you have found yourself a job as official archivist of this thread and its predecessor. Stay happy, I am sure you will find many more jewels to requote.