Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

eastwest

monument wrote: »

It's also not Thomas behind the wall!

No, that's the Sligo version, it seems!:)

eastwest

serfboard wrote: »

Canney will probably argue that this report only refers to the line running through Tubercurry - i.e. north of Claremorris, and I think that even the most diehard WOT people know that that part of the line is gone, which is why they usually refer only to the section south of Claremorris.

The (poor) freight argument usually talks about running freight from Ballina, which wouldn't be going through Tobercurry anyway.

On the face of it, the arguments are the same; if the payback on Sligo is two or so years, and we all know that any new rail development in the west is decades away, at best, then the argument for a greenway is won. It doesn't stop a railway happening; that is more to do with demand, demographics and availability of funding.

eastwest

serfboard wrote: »

Canney will probably argue that this report only refers to the line running through Tubercurry - i.e. north of Claremorris, and I think that even the most diehard WOT people know that that part of the line is gone, which is why they usually refer only to the section south of Claremorris.

The (poor) freight argument usually talks about running freight from Ballina, which wouldn't be going through Tobercurry anyway.

I think the wdc report on rail freight has knocked all that nonsense out of the park. WOT were banking on that report and it didn't deliver for them; they have been noticeably quiet on the freight nonsense since then.
My spies do tell me that two of their leading light have been in and out of the Dail a lot in recent weeks, presumably as guests of their 'man in Havana'.

westtip

Press release From: The Western Rail Trail campaign
June 26^th 2016 for immediate release.
[font=Arial, sans-serif]Western Rail Trail Campaign welcomes Government funded report recommending greenway [/font]
[font=Arial, sans-serif]Report commissioned to assess options for Western Rail Trail on Sligo section of closed railway[/font]
[font=Arial, sans-serif]Clear recommendation for Greenway on route now[/font]
[font=Arial, sans-serif]Time has now come for action from County Councils along the route to take a lead from Sligo County Council

[/font]


A spokesman for the Western rail Trail Campaign a group campaigning to preserve the alignment of the disused rail line from Athenry to Collooney by utilising the route for tourism and leisure as a greenway has welcomed the release by Sligo County Council of a special report commissioned by the council to consider the options for the Sligo section of the Western Rail Trail from Collooney to Charlestown.

The findings of the report were presented by council executives on Friday 24^th at a meeting in Tubbercurry.

The report was commissioned following separate presentations in December 2015 to Sligo County Council by Greenway and Railway lobbyists.

Following these presentations the council commissioned independent consultants Meehan Tully Associates to undertake a report with the clear brief of looking at three options for the closed railway. Option one to restore the railway, Option two to utilise the route now as a greenway to protect the route in public ownership and Option three to restore the railway with a greenway running alongside the route.

The final recommendation of the report was quite clear in recommending option two, to have a greenway only on the route as the best option for the time being with option one to restore the railway to remain as a long term objective.

Brendan Quinn of the Western Rail Trail said that this report confirms the view of our campaign that a greenway is the best way to protect the closed railway route until such time, if ever, that a railway becomes possible.

This is a win/win report for both Greenway and Railway campaigners said Quinn as it means the Railway option is still on the agenda but the county will benefit from a greenway until such time as this becomes possible.

We now need a similar report to consider the sections of the Western Rail Trail south of Sligo and call upon Mayo County Council and Galway County Council to embrace the vision Sligo County Council are showing in accepting the Greenway as an alternative until a Railway is possible as the best way to protect the route and deliver an amenity for the West of Ireland tourism now.

Building a greenway on the route, all the way from Sligo to Athenry, which is the accepted international best practice to protect closed railway routes in public ownership. would open up all the towns along the line to a rural-tourism bonanza as has been the experience wherever this kind of development has taken place.


ENDS: body text 414 wordsContacts: Brendan Quinn 087 4198193 Find us on Facebook: sligomayogreenwaycampaign
email brenquinn@eircom.net

Picture caption: Greenway on closed railway the recommended option of latest Governernment funded report

Del.Monte

Why stop at Athenry? Surely there are more than enough express buses serving Galway and the rail line could be removed. I can see lines of cyclists making their way from Galway to Kiltimagh, Charlestown, Colooney etc. every day. God be with the days when every village used to demand its parish pump/hospital/bypass - so much simpler than a greenway to every corner of rural Ireland.

westtip

Del.Monte wrote: »

Why stop at Athenry? Surely there are more than enough express buses serving Galway and the rail line could be removed. I can see lines of cyclists making their way from Galway to Kiltimagh, Charlestown, Colooney etc. every day. God be with the days when every village used to demand its parish pump/hospital/bypass - so much simpler than a greenway to every corner of rural Ireland.

Have you ever seen a suggestion from the Greenway campaigners that an existing railway should be closed in favour of a greenway. I don't think so. So this kind of facetious comment trying to label those that advocate using a public facility such as the long closed railway line to be put to good public use as a greenway is not only misleading but also an attempt to discredit a perfectly good argument. Nobody, absolutely nobody is suggesting closing existing rail lines as greenways so stop sulking.

eastwest

Del.Monte wrote: »

Why stop at Athenry? Surely there are more than enough express buses serving Galway and the rail line could be removed. I can see lines of cyclists making their way from Galway to Kiltimagh, Charlestown, Colooney etc. every day. God be with the days when every village used to demand its parish pump/hospital/bypass - so much simpler than a greenway to every corner of rural Ireland.

There may ironically be a hidden grain of merit in this post, despite its somewhat petulant sentiment. I'm not of course suggesting that the Athenry-Galway line should be torn up and replaced with s cycleway as you suggest, but the notion that all rail lines should be immune from economic scrutiny is equally foolish. There should be no sacred cows in the public service area; because we always did things a certain way is no reason for continuing blindly with any system or structure. Periodic analysis of asset performance is a core value in any business, and should equally apply to public services. If turning a railway into a cycleway or a busway or a running track is a better use of public funds and provides an improved level of service to the community, then the fact that it is currently a railway shouldn't be the overriding decider.

serfboard

Del.Monte wrote: »

I can see lines of cyclists making their way from Galway to Kiltimagh, Charlestown, Colooney etc. every day.

Good for you. One thing you will not see is lines of passengers making their way from Galway to anywhere south of Athenry, or from Limerick to anywhere north of Ennis.

eastwest

So, from now on there'll be less trains on the Mayo route, not more.

Still need two lines?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/watch-irish-rail-trials-longest-ever-440metre-trains-34840428.html

flyingsnail

eastwest wrote: »

So, from now on there'll be less trains on the Mayo route, not more.

Still need two lines?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/watch-irish-rail-trials-longest-ever-440metre-trains-34840428.html

I dont think there will be less trains, just longer existing ones

eastwest

flyingsnail wrote: »

I dont think there will be less trains, just longer existing ones

Longer trains, same load, sounds like less trains to me.

flyingsnail

eastwest wrote: »

Longer trains, same load, sounds like less trains to me.

From what I have heard it is to increase the load for IWT, same number of longer trains, increased load.

eastwest

flyingsnail wrote: »

From what I have heard it is to increase the load for IWT, same number of longer trains, increased load.

The WDC report didn't identify any significant increased demand for freight going forward, so I'd guess the bigger picture is more about efficiency and needing fewer drivers.

Muckyboots

http://www.tuamherald.ie/news/roundup/articles/2016/06/29/4122376-minister-ross-advised-to-derail-western-corridor

Ask for a report. Don't like what it says. Dispute the figures. Time moves on. Greenway is blocked. Mission accomplished.

TCDStudent1

As somebody who knows pretty much nothing about rail systems (but know enough to know that the WRC is a non-runner), what conditions would actually need to be fulfilled for the WRC to be extended? I.e. What would be a viable business case to extend it?

Markcheese

TCDStudent1 wrote:

As somebody who knows pretty much nothing about rail systems (but know enough to know that the WRC is a non-runner), what conditions would actually need to be fulfilled for the WRC to be extended? I.e. What would be a viable business case to extend it?

The discovery of the lost city of atlantis with a population of a half million or so, somewhere along the line might wing it.. even then i'm not sure , (they dont get out much those atlanteans)

Muckyboots

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

As somebody who knows pretty much nothing about rail systems (but know enough to know that the WRC is a non-runner), what conditions would actually need to be fulfilled for the WRC to be extended? I.e. What would be a viable business case to extend it?

As a strong Greenway advocate, a high quality sustainable business- offering well paid, long term, employment to hundreds of people in either Tuam, Claremorris, Charlestown or Tubbercurry necessitating a rail service, would be a viable case. A Greenway on the alignment would protect it and put it to good use until that scenario might arise.

Sam Russell

Well, the Navan Zinc mine retained the line from Drogheda to Navan for freight. It could easily be used to a passenger link if a few level crossing were dealt with and a bit of a shuffle of lines at Drogheda end and a reopening of the Navan station. Something like discovering some worthwhile minerals in the Claremorris area might do it.

Is anyone prospecting up near Croagh Patrick?

Muckyboots

Sam Russell wrote: »

Well, the Navan Zinc mine retained the line from Drogheda to Navan for freight. It could easily be used to a passenger link if a few level crossing were dealt with and a bit of a shuffle of lines at Drogheda end and a reopening of the Navan station. Something like discovering some worthwhile minerals in the Claremorris area might do it.

Is anyone prospecting up near Croagh Patrick?

Westport-Claremorris is well in situ and would serve the Croagh Patrick Gold Mines very well. The other new Mayo gold mine of cycling and walking tourists would love an extension of the Great Western Greenway into Galway.

eastwest

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

As somebody who knows pretty much nothing about rail systems (but know enough to know that the WRC is a non-runner), what conditions would actually need to be fulfilled for the WRC to be extended? I.e. What would be a viable business case to extend it?

Four things would be needed. 1. A doubling of the population along the route. 2. The development of heavy industry in north mayo. 3. Substantial European funding for the capital project. 4. The cancellation of all plans to improve the N17.

mayo.mick

westtip

Attached is a copy of the RedZ report published recently and reported in the Irish independent just before its publication and referred to in the press release I posted a few posts back.

Will only post one extract from page 42. sound familiar?

What is the final recommendation?
The final recommendation is that Option Two, the single-use greenway should be pursued in the short-term, however Option One, the reopening of the line to rail traffic should be the longer-term objective.

This is the first report from official government Ireland that makes such a recommendation, there will be more good news to follow next month.

eastwest

westtip wrote: »

Attached is a copy of the RedZ report published recently and reported in the Irish independent just before its publication and referred to in the press release I posted a few posts back.

Will only post one extract from page 42. sound familiar?



This is the first report from official government Ireland that makes such a recommendation, there will be more good news to follow next month.

There's quite a bit of reading in it, but it boils down to one thing; a railway is not the obvious use for the asset.
I'm never surprised at what the headbangers say, but you'd wonder why a sane guy like Canney goes along with the 'train' nonsense. Surely there see more votes in the greenway story?

serfboard

eastwest wrote: »

Surely there see more votes in the greenway story?

The problem is that, in responding to West-On-Track, who were the first with any major campaign regarding the line, Canney and his ilk "got on board" (;) ) with the rail idea and are finding it very hard to walk that back now.

What's needed to "help" these politicians change their mind is an equally strong campaign from a Greenway-supporting group. I don't know if Western Rail Trail is there yet, but it's a start, and there are people in towns along the way (Swinford and Tuam, for example) who get it.

I get the feeling myself that West-On-Track is fading now somewhat anyway. First, the passenger numbers didn't stack up (as was proven on the Limerick section), and then the frieght argument died a death. The recent defection of Galway councillor Pete Roche is a further nail in the coffin.

eastwest

serfboard wrote: »

The problem is that, in responding to West-On-Track, who were the first with any major campaign regarding the line, Canney and his ilk "got on board" (;) ) with the rail idea and are finding it very hard to walk that back now.

What's needed to "help" these politicians change their mind is an equally strong campaign from a Greenway-supporting group. I don't know if Western Rail Trail is there yet, but it's a start, and there are people in towns along the way (Swinford and Tuam, for example) who get it.

I get the feeling myself that West-On-Track is fading now somewhat anyway. First, the passenger numbers didn't stack up (as was proven on the Limerick section), and then the frieght argument died a death. The recent defection of Galway councillor Pete Roche is a further nail in the coffin.

The report was interesting in that it used the actual figures (50,000) on the newly built section as distinct from the massaged figures used by the rail lobby, where they tend to use the figures on anything between Limerick and Galway.
It makes interesting reading though.

Markcheese

eastwest wrote:

There's quite a bit of reading in it, but it boils down to one thing; a railway is not the obvious use for the asset. I'm never surprised at what the headbangers say, but you'd wonder why a sane guy like Canney goes along with the 'train' nonsense. Surely there see more votes in the greenway story?

There was something on the radio recently about how most people make up their minds first and then look for reason to back up their decision later...
And a lot of people wont reverse their position even long after being shown how daft it is...
Theres nowt as quare as folk ...

Muckyboots

Markcheese wrote: »

There was something on the radio recently about how most people make up their minds first and then look for reason to back up their decision later...
And a lot of people wont reverse their position even long after being shown how daft it is...
Theres nowt as quare as folk ...

Cognitive Dissonance. Terrible affliction.
Tony Blair has a bad dose of it too.

westtip

serfboard wrote: »

What's needed to "help" these politicians change their mind is an equally strong campaign from a Greenway-supporting group. I don't know if Western Rail Trail is there yet, but it's a start, and there are people in towns along the way (Swinford and Tuam, for example) who get it.

I get the feeling myself that West-On-Track is fading now somewhat anyway. First, the passenger numbers didn't stack up (as was proven on the Limerick section), and then the frieght argument died a death. The recent defection of Galway councillor Pete Roche is a further nail in the coffin.

There is an official grouping in Sligo - The Sligo Greenway Co-op - and without waving my own flag too much it was born out of the Sligo Mayo Greenway Facebook campaign, but the Sligo politicians (TDs and Cllrs) both sat up and took notice when something resembling an official lobby group took off. Tuam Greenway Group is strong and actually has representation in two independent cllrs, Shaun Cunniffe and karey McHugh who both campaigned with the greenway on their ticket. Mayo has been a tougher nut to crack, although the greenway campaign has had a lot of leverage with the Swinford Tidy Towns group who are stalwart supporters, but Sinn Fein/West of Track cllr Gerry Murray of Charlestown has done his best to do down the greenway campaign in Charlestown. What Mayo does have on its side is the shame the county council holds in ignoring 300 submissions on the county plan two years ago asking for a greenway on the route at least from Charlestown to Claremorris, however this issue is being addressed, many cllrs in Mayo support the greenway however a cohort of diehards in Claremorris and the county executive directed by Frank Dawson (ex county manager of Roscommon) are doing their best to stop the greenway at all costs.

Re The Western Rail Trail Campaign, this is collective voice for a number of organisations along the route, from Athenry to Collooney. it is not an official "organisation" merely a collective voice of thousands.

eastwest

The tragedy of this debacle is that the greenway will be built, slowly and piecemeal, with Sligo creeping slowly towards making s decision, but all the delays just mean a loss of revenue and jobs all along the route. The entire Athenry-Collooney route could take a decade to deliver, with Mayo the big blocker.
On the other hand, the Waterford project took very little time in county council terms, and already it is being heavily used and businesses are starting to plan their futures around it.
It's all about 'thick'; there's a higher proportion of it in the west than elsewhere, particularly in Mayo. It was ever thus.

westtip

eastwest wrote: »

The tragedy of this debacle is that the greenway will be built, slowly and piecemeal, with Sligo creeping slowly towards making s decision, but all the delays just mean a loss of revenue and jobs all along the route. The entire Athenry-Collooney route could take a decade to deliver, with Mayo the big blocker.
On the other hand, the Waterford project took very little time in county council terms, and already it is being heavily used and businesses are starting to plan their futures around it.
It's all about 'thick'; there's a higher proportion of it in the west than elsewhere, particularly in Mayo. It was ever thus.

As many of us have often said the only way it will happen expediently is for the decision re the closed railway route to be taken out of the county councils influence. It needs a decision from central government and department of transport to say enough is enough, this greenway is the best thing on offer now get on with it.