Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

cgcsb

For those that are pro rail, surely it must be acknowledged that in order for the journey times to competitive the railway would have to be pretty high spec, higher spec than the current Ennis-Athenry route which offers a slow windy route between Galway and Limerick and cannot compete with express bus services.

eastwest

cgcsb wrote: »

For those that are pro rail, surely it must be acknowledged that in order for the journey times to competitive the railway would have to be pretty high spec, higher spec than the current Ennis-Athenry route which offers a slow windy route between Galway and Limerick and cannot compete with express bus services.

If wot had been realists instead of relying on parish pumpery, they would have been looking for a new alignment from Sligo to limerick, included in the road corridor and feeding directly into Galway instead of diverting through Athenry. While the railway might not have been built at the same time as the road, a realistic route would have been available if the numbers ever stacked up for rail, and the heavy lifting -- over bridges and cuttings etc -- would have been absorbed into the road project.

Bray Head

eastwest wrote: »

cgcsb wrote: »

For those that are pro rail, surely it must be acknowledged that in order for the journey times to competitive the railway would have to be pretty high spec, higher spec than the current Ennis-Athenry route which offers a slow windy route between Galway and Limerick and cannot compete with express bus services.

If wot had been realists instead of relying on parish pumpery, they would have been looking for a new alignment from Sligo to limerick, included in the road corridor and feeding directly into Galway instead of diverting through Athenry. While the railway might not have been built at the same time as the road, a realistic route would have been available if the numbers ever stacked up for rail, and the heavy lifting -- over bridges and cuttings etc -- would have been absorbed into the road project.

You are in one way completely right.

However you would then have a railway line that ran exactly the same route as the road. Just slower and with less flexibility.

Then it would be even more obvious to people that the whole business case made no sense.

cgcsb

eastwest wrote: »

If wot had been realists instead of relying on parish pumpery, they would have been looking for a new alignment from Sligo to limerick, included in the road corridor and feeding directly into Galway instead of diverting through Athenry. While the railway might not have been built at the same time as the road, a realistic route would have been available if the numbers ever stacked up for rail, and the heavy lifting -- over bridges and cuttings etc -- would have been absorbed into the road project.

+1. I don't see why a mostly sub aqua victorian route was selected when a more direct route above the water table could have been built and the end product would have been a fast Limeirck-Galway rail link. It would've only cost slightly extra and given a usable product at the end.

cgcsb

Bray Head wrote: »

You are in one way completely right.

However you would then have a railway line that ran exactly the same route as the road. Just slower and with less flexibility.

Then it would be even more obvious to people that the whole business case made no sense.

It needn't have been slower though, a well designed route could accommodate 160km/hr running.

Bray Head

cgcsb wrote: »

+1. I don't see why a mostly sub aqua victorian route was selected when a more direct route above the water table could have been built and the end product would have been a fast Limeirck-Galway rail link. It would've only cost slightly extra and given a usable product at the end.

"slightly" extra?

eastwest

Bray Head wrote: »

You are in one way completely right.

However you would then have a railway line that ran exactly the same route as the road. Just slower and with less flexibility.

Then it would be even more obvious to people that the whole business case made no sense.

What I meant was that WOT should have campaigned for this option instead of the old, twisting route, if they were taking a long-term view. Then if the demographic ever changed to justify a business case for rail, the route would then have been there.
That would have put long-term planning ahead of vanity though; it would be hard for a few of them to let go of the idea of riding a train in their lifetimes. After all, Canon Horan got to fly on a plane out of Knock!
Now they have neither, and the recent decision by Mayo Council has blocked the route for a long time for rail or any other use. The 'rail cruising' business that is about to get a lease on the track might be very expensive (if not impossible) to buy out if they ever want to put a railway there; they'd have been better off with a greenway. Unless of course they know well that there are not likely to be trains on the route this century.
I was surprised at the lack of objection by WOT to the rail cruising proposal; there wasn't a peep out of them, even though it poses a much greater threat to rail than a cycleway if it is successful.

eastwest

I see that Apple has made it past the objectors to the Athenry data centre and work can now proceed, subject to details of the 'proposed amenity walkway' promised by Apple as part of the planning proposal.
There's an opportunity missed, thanks to a couple of dogs in the manger! Athenry and Tuam could be sitting back while Apple paid for a greenaway on the old line, but instead there will be a path from nowhere to nowhere.
Well done, Councillors!

westtip

Bray Head wrote: »

"slightly" extra?

Indeed it would not have been "slightly extra", as a new route would have had to be CPO'd. The Rail lobby/West on Track were well aware that the old route was about as good as it gets when it came to the budget to build WRC phase one from Athenry to Ennis. However the old route is neither use nor ornament as a modern day railway alignment, weaving in and out and roundabout via Athenry as it does. A direct route: Ennis, Shannon Airport, Galway should have been what they campaigned for but they knew that would never be delivered. Which is why WOT have done the west a disservice by campaigning for second class infrastructure. They never really understood it. They never will. It's a mantra that is unbreakable, re-open the old railway was all they ever cried. They are authors of their own downfall as what they campaigned for was always going to fail.:rolleyes:

savagethegoat

westtip wrote: »

Indeed it would not have been "slightly extra", as a new route would have had to be CPO'd. The Rail lobby/West on Track were well aware that the old route was about as good as it gets when it came to the budget to build WRC phase one from Athenry to Ennis. However the old route is neither use nor ornament as a modern day railway alignment, weaving in and out and roundabout via Athenry as it does. A direct route: Ennis, Shannon Airport, Galway should have been what they campaigned for but they knew that would never be delivered. Which is why WOT have done the west a disservice by campaigning for second class infrastructure. They never really understood it. They never will. It's a mantra that is unbreakable, re-open the old railway was all they ever cried. They are authors of their own downfall as what they campaigned for was always going to fail.:rolleyes:

Had they got Ennis Shannon Galway, the line would still have been flooded out every winter south of Ennis.

Even that as a new build route wouldn't have been a success. An Airport link needs to have a high-intensity service to succeed, that could never be viable for Shannon, or even possible

westtip

savagethegoat wrote: »

Had they got Ennis Shannon Galway, the line would still have been flooded out every winter south of Ennis.

Even that as a new build route wouldn't have been a success. An Airport link needs to have a high-intensity service to succeed, that could never be viable for Shannon, or even possible

Agree completely, but campaigning for a two hour train journey from Limerick to Galway via Athenry was always doomed to fail. I was through Shannon this summer, I was amazed at just how few flights are going in and out these days and even an argument for a rail link to Shannon would be a weak one to build; you are 100% right about intensity of service required for an airport link, for an airport service to be meaningful it needs to be every 10/15 minutes. We know all the arguments, critical mass simply will never stack up on this white elephant. Hey ho!

dubhthach

eastwest wrote: »

I see that Apple has made it past the objectors to the Athenry data centre and work can now proceed, subject to details of the 'proposed amenity walkway' promised by Apple as part of the planning proposal.
There's an opportunity missed, thanks to a couple of dogs in the manger! Athenry and Tuam could be sitting back while Apple paid for a greenaway on the old line, but instead there will be a path from nowhere to nowhere.
Well done, Councillors!

Well they are planning another 7 data centers for the site over the next 10+ years, so who knows there might be an opportunity with later ones . This planning permission is only for DC number 1.

thomond2006

I took the Limerick-Galway train at the weekend, the speed differences while travelling were noticeable. Athenry-Galway seemed fast while getting out of Limerick felt like it took ages. A commuter type train was used as well so it's not as comfortable as the typical intercity trains on the Dublin-Cork line.

cgcsb

westtip wrote: »

Indeed it would not have been "slightly extra", as a new route would have had to be CPO'd. The Rail lobby/West on Track were well aware that the old route was about as good as it gets when it came to the budget to build WRC phase one from Athenry to Ennis. However the old route is neither use nor ornament as a modern day railway alignment, weaving in and out and roundabout via Athenry as it does. A direct route: Ennis, Shannon Airport, Galway should have been what they campaigned for but they knew that would never be delivered. Which is why WOT have done the west a disservice by campaigning for second class infrastructure. They never really understood it. They never will. It's a mantra that is unbreakable, re-open the old railway was all they ever cried. They are authors of their own downfall as what they campaigned for was always going to fail.:rolleyes:

They would have been better off campaigning for double tracking between Portarlington and Athlone, which could facilitate much faster, more frequent rail services in the west. If there were a Dublin-Galway train every hour with a 2 hour journey time, the west of Ireland would benefit much more than from a windy, slow, mostly under water, inter-regional service to Limerick.

westtip

cgcsb wrote: »

They would have been better off campaigning for double tracking between Portarlington and Athlone, which could facilitate much faster, more frequent rail services in the west. If there were a Dublin-Galway train every hour with a 2 hour journey time, the west of Ireland would benefit much more than from a windy, slow, mostly under water, inter-regional service to Limerick.

Indeed a point that has been made on this thread several times in the past, as well as loop passes from Athlone to Galway, with double tracking from Athenry onwards to Galway; and possibly using the subvention wasted on Ennis Athenry for a late night service from Dublin to both Galway and Sligo with limited stops, say leaving Dublin at 11.00 pm and arriving Galway or Sligo at 1.00 am. The current last train times are 7.35 pm and 7.00 pm. Any reasonable city long distance commuting would have a late night service such as this, but of course it would take ten years of negotiations with the unions to negotiate the rostering.

cgcsb

Indeed it's very important to have a later service. Never mind leaving Dublin at 11(although that'd be fantastic)/ For those of us who are not civil servants and traveling to Sligo after work, it is often impossible to say for certain that you will definitely finish work at 6 and make it to Connolly for the last train at 7pm (or 7.30 at Heuston for Galway).

thomond2006

Were there developments expected to happen (pre-crash at the time I suppose) around Ardrahan, Craughwell etc to justify stations/stops at those villages?

L1011

thomond2006 wrote: »

Were there developments expected to happen (pre-crash at the time I suppose) around Ardrahan, Craughwell etc to justify stations/stops at those villages?

Very, very little.

eastwest

thomond2006 wrote: »

Were there developments expected to happen (pre-crash at the time I suppose) around Ardrahan, Craughwell etc to justify stations/stops at those villages?

The thinking seems to have been entirely based on a 19th century model for this route.

Muckyboots

Traffic backed up right back to Oranmore from level crossing today. Maldron Hotel roundabout became totally clogged and traffic started backing up on all directions as the level crossing barriers came down on the N18. And then she passed. One engine and one carriage plodding in to Galway from Ennis. WRC in full swing on a Friday evening in August. Eight happy passengers, scores of pissed off drivers ...and a few near misses.

L1011

Its two carriages - no dedicated engines on DMUs.

marno21

Muckyboots wrote: »

Traffic backed up right back to Oranmore from level crossing today. Maldron Hotel roundabout became totally clogged and traffic started backing up on all directions as the level crossing barriers came down on the N18. And then she passed. One engine and one carriage plodding in to Galway from Ennis. WRC in full swing on a Friday evening in August. Eight happy passengers, scores of pissed off drivers ...and a few near misses.

M18 isn't too far away thankfully.

savagethegoat

marno21 wrote: »

M18 isn't too far away thankfully.

that will probably reduce the passengers numbers by one or two

mayo.mick

savagethegoat wrote: »

that will probably reduce the passengers numbers by one or two

So there'll be only 6 happy passengers

savagethegoat

mayo.mick wrote: »

So there'll be only 6 happy passengers

cue song;

6 happy passengers riding on the train,
6 happy passengers riding on the train.
and if 1 happy passenger should accidently go by car.. etc

westtip

savagethegoat wrote: »

cue song;

6 happy passengers riding on the train,
6 happy passengers riding on the train.
and if 1 happy passenger should accidently go by car.. etc

We will count them all on one hand......

westtip

marno21 wrote: »

M18 isn't too far away thankfully.

I wonder what time the express bus will take when the motorway connection via Rathmorrisey interchange comes into play? As for private drivetimes? My guess is Limerick Galway will be an hour apart?

Muckyboots

westtip wrote: »

I wonder what time the express bus will take when the motorway connection via Rathmorrisey interchange comes into play? As for private drivetimes? My guess is Limerick Galway will be an hour apart?

It will take one hour from the Tuam junction to Limerick- that will take 1/2 hour off a private trip but maybe even more for people north of Tuam who will also benefit from the town by-pass.

savagethegoat

ah but you can ate your sangwitches on the train.

eastwest

As long as ya have yer flesk