Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

BoatMad

Waterways Ireland quickly realised that investment in the waterways themselves per se wasn't enough, that the banks and towpaths were the real assets. They have been involved (and are still involved) in developing greenways on canal.banks.

while this is true, the fundamental issue is that WI maintains a navigable canal . the parallel with closed railways is apt. Greenways that exist alongside are one thing, those that displace railways are entirely different argument

Carawaystick

what_traffic wrote: »

http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/news/greenway-route-coming-down-the-track-for-county-35004804.html

Rosslare to Waterford Rail line is only out of use for five years and talks of converting it into a Greenway already.

Given you'ld have a greenway almost the whole way from ROsslare to Dungarvan, seems a great idea.
There's the spur to New Ross in some planning too.

Get a cycle way to Youghal, use the old rail line to Middleton, and it's not too far from connecting to Cork city.

Obviously some imagination needed to get a route from Dungarvan to Cork, but all the low hanging ex-rail lines will be used up and some other way to connect places by greenway will need to be found.

eastwest

BoatMad wrote: »

while this is true, the fundamental issue is that WI maintains a navigable canal . the parallel with closed railways is apt. Greenways that exist alongside are one thing, those that displace railways are entirely different argument

They're not displacing railways though, that's the whole point. What's in place on that alignment for the most part isn't a railway. It's rotten.
You can't compare a waterway, nowadays seen as having amenity and scenic value, with a railway.
Where there is actually a valid comparison, and this is recognised everywhere else, is the amenity and tourism value of the railway heritage, such as buildings and bridges. They need to be preserved, and not left to rot with the old tracks.

BoatMad

eastwest wrote: »

They're not displacing railways though, that's the whole point. What's in place on that alignment for the most part isn't a railway. It's rotten.

The link from waterford to rosslare is intact , is subject to regular inspection cars and the weedsprayer train, perhaps you are confusing it with waterford - new ross

tabbey

what_traffic wrote: »

http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/news/greenway-route-coming-down-the-track-for-county-35004804.html

Rosslare to Waterford Rail line is only out of use for five years and talks of converting it into a Greenway already.

Not merely that, but Wexford to Rosslare is still in use as a railway, but the report quotes the Wexford County CEO as proposing this as a greenway, perhaps he means a different route/ alignment.

BoatMad

tabbey wrote: »

Not merely that, but Wexford to Rosslare is still in use as a railway, but the report quotes the Wexford County CEO as proposing this as a greenway, perhaps he means a different route/ alignment.

It must first be declared abandoned ( which it has not been ) and then it cannot be touched for 10 years under EU law

eastwest

BoatMad wrote: »

The link from waterford to rosslare is intact , is subject to regular inspection cars and the weedsprayer train, perhaps you are confusing it with waterford - new ross

I thought we were talking about the wrc.
I'm delighted to see the progressive approach in wexford; build a greenway now instead of farting about with silly political games for a decade, then if a railway ever makes sense on the route, we'll still own the asset.

BoatMad

eastwest wrote: »

I thought we were talking about the wrc.
I'm delighted to see the progressive approach in wexford; build a greenway now instead of farting about with silly political games for a decade, then if a railway ever makes sense on the route, we'll still own the asset.

I was merely addressing the point that the railway exists and is intact and has traffic over it ( including an empty passenger train last year )

and I was making the point that the line is NOT available at this time to be removed in favour of a greenway

Grandeeod

BoatMad wrote: »

It must first be declared abandoned ( which it has not been ) and then it cannot be touched for 10 years under EU law

That 10 year thing isn't true.

BoatMad

Grandeeod wrote: »

That 10 year thing isn't true.

well policy in ireland has been to allow 10 years from official abandonment

eastwest

BoatMad wrote: »

It must first be declared abandoned ( which it has not been ) and then it cannot be touched for 10 years under EU law

I don't think that's true; cie can do what they want to preserve the route, surely?

Del.Monte

BoatMad wrote: »

It must first be declared abandoned ( which it has not been ) and then it cannot be touched for 10 years under EU law

Sadly the EU 10 year rule is an urban legend and has never existed - that is unless you can provide a link. It was a story put out by CIE years ago to calm local politicians until the hue and cry over certain closures died down.

BoatMad

Del.Monte wrote: »

Sadly the EU 10 year rule is an urban legend and has never existed - that is unless you can provide a link. It was a story put out by CIE years ago to calm local politicians until the hue and cry over certain closures died down.

irrespective the route is not declared abandoned , its merely a railway line not in continuous use and is maintained and operated as an " engineers siding " CIE has in recent years waited upto 10 years even after abandonment, a decision for example that proved wise when it reopen waterford ballinacourty tens years after services were withdrawn

find your greenways elsewhere

Del.Monte

Don't give out to me about Greenways - I'd convert them all to railways.

Grandeeod

BoatMad wrote: »

irrespective the route is not declared abandoned , its merely a railway line not in continuous use and is maintained and operated as an " engineers siding " CIE has in recent years waited upto 10 years even after abandonment, a decision for example that proved wise when it reopen waterford ballinacourty tens years after services were withdrawn

find your greenways elsewhere

It wasn't a deliberate action/policy by CIE to wait 10 years in case a line could be reopened. It was a method to quell local objections - ie. leave the track to rot and lift it when the dust settles. The dust never settled along the Burma road, hence the track is still there, worthless, but crafty symbolism among the cute hoorism agenda. That said there was a very quirky stance regarding lifting closed lines. Ardee, loughrea and the North Kerry got the 10 year treatment, but the likes of Fenit and Youghal lasted (and still do in parts) a lot longer.

Waterford - Mallow closed in 1967. Waterford - Ballinacourty opened in 1970. Upon closure, it was already known that the Magnesite plant was in planning. That traffic stopped in 1982 and the track wasn't lifted until 1996 or so.

As for the south Wexford line, its getting a little more protection than it would have in previous years. There is actually a fairly decent "care and maintenence" approach because the NTA are involved. CIE's previous C+M approach was diabolical/non existant.

I disagree with any proposals to turn the south Wexford into a greenway as its far too early in the scheme of things and its built to a very high standard. But the Burma road should be ploughed back into the bog.

Del.Monte

The Burma Road must live again - I need it in the Down direction.

eastwest

Wexford sees the impending success of the deise greenway and wants to connect to it. Hard to blame them!

Grandeeod

Del.Monte wrote: »

The Burma Road must live again - I need it in the Down direction.

I've often fantazised about going down on the Burma road.:D

Grandeeod

eastwest wrote: »

Wexford sees the impending success of the deise greenway and wants to connect to it. Hard to blame them!

Its important that we monitor greenway proposals and don't get carried away with it. Certain routes suit, but if we are promoting routes like the south Wexford, before time has played a part, then we may as well promote a greenway along the DART line. Lets cool the jets a bit.

Muckyboots

BoatMad wrote: »

irrespective the route is not declared abandoned , its merely a railway line not in continuous use and is maintained and operated as an " engineers siding " CIE has in recent years waited upto 10 years even after abandonment, a decision for example that proved wise when it reopen waterford ballinacourty tens years after services were withdrawn

find your greenways elsewhere

Spend your 10 years doing nothing, waiting for nothing, elsewhere.

end of the road

Muckyboots wrote: »

Spend your 10 years doing nothing, waiting for nothing, elsewhere.

he doesn't have to. people will still be debating railway or greenway on the wrc north of athenry long after we are dead

hytrogen

eastwest wrote:

Waterways Ireland quickly realised that investment in the waterways themselves per se wasn't enough, that the banks and towpaths were the real assets. They have been involved (and are still involved) in developing greenways on canal.banks. Sometimes, what's important is the linear strip of land and not what's on it, as in the case of the rotting and overgrown railway that runs from athenry to Collooney. As for investments made in the boom years and whether they are delivering revenues now, not all of them are. The wrc from ennis to athenry was not only a poor investment that hasn't delivered, it was described as one of the top ten wastes of funding in a report a few years back. There isn't a politician alive who actually believes that a government will repeat this mistake, but that's not what is at issue. The most important thing that can happen to this asset, if you're a politician, is that nothing happens.

That's all well and good for the people cycling along from lock 13 to grand canal dock who work along the grand canal way, that was needed and thankfully they didn't uproot the canal itself as that is still in use by the IWAI Dublin rally and many others throughout the year. Not to mention a future aqueduct for the Dublin basin water supply scheme.
The only reason Ennis to Athenry hasn't succeeded is purely down to the fares and time tables that were developed for the service. It's still cheaper to go from Cork or Limerick to Galway via Dublin bizzarly and that's a management problem of IR not OPW who own the land.
Please link the report as that is quite interesting to know for future discussion.
What still baffles me is these blind notions to close a rail line for the sake of two or three residents to walk along to nowhere for no reason and uplift track and sleepers unnecessarily while there is still commercial use and potential for further expansion. Look at how they re-introduced use by the Luas onto the old harcourt line and how successful that is.

eastwest wrote:

Hence the blocking tactic of the ridiculous rail-cruising proposal, a proposal designed among other things to keep local people from using or enjoying a publicly owned asset by pricing them out of it, even if that means that it also blocks any chance of a railway being built in the future.

that is completely out of context and bang out of order, nobody in their right mind wants to deny anyone access to walking space anywhere on this island with due care and safety in mind. They are completely dumb or suicidal if they desire to walk along a high-speed rail line that is in service and operational. Fallow looking lines are still in operation and again route cause analysis will bring it back to IR mismanagement & their squandering problems internally.

hytrogen

what_traffic wrote:

Rosslare to Waterford Rail line is only out of use for five years and talks of converting it into a Greenway already.

Not with the future plans talked of from Tivoli to Rosslare post Brexit

Carawaystick

hytrogen wrote: »

The only reason Ennis to Athenry hasn't succeeded is purely down to the fares and time tables that were developed for the service. It's still cheaper to go from Cork or Limerick to Galway via Dublin bizzarly

The fact trains couldn't get from Ennis to Limerick for 6 months because it rained is purely down to time tabling and fares...
The failure of the train is in no way affedcted by the bus service which is faster, cheaper and has more services ....

hytrogen wrote: »

What still baffles me is these blind notions to close a rail line for the sake of two or three residents to walk along to nowhere for no reason and uplift track and sleepers unnecessarily while there is still commercial use and potential for further expansion. Look at how they re-introduced use by the Luas onto the old harcourt line and how successful that is.

The tramline on the old Harcourt line is successful because there's loads of people wanting to go somewhere difficult to get to via an alternative. Comparing a line in a city with a hugh catchment within a short walk of the tram stops vs a rural line where people probably have to drive or get a lift to the station anyway, resulting in them probably driving the rest of their journey.
This isn;t an apple s to oranges comparison, it;s apples to grapes.

hytrogen wrote: »

. They are completely dumb or suicidal if they desire to walk along a high-speed rail line that is in service and operational..

Maybe you could point out any high speed line in Ireland? Nobody in their right mind would describe any line here as a high speed line.

end of the road

Carawaystick wrote: »

The fact trains couldn't get from Ennis to Limerick for 6 months because it rained is purely down to time tabling and fares...

lets not twist what was said. his post was concise and clear.

Carawaystick wrote: »

The failure of the train is in no way affedcted by the bus service which is faster, cheaper and has more services ....

we don't know, as usually bus will have it's own market who don't use rail. most people will drive rather then take the bus outside dublin (mind you it's probably the same in dublin)

Carawaystick wrote: »

The tramline on the old Harcourt line is successful because there's loads of people wanting to go somewhere difficult to get to via an alternative.

absolutely. and i believe long term we need to consider reopening it as heavy rail. it could be done when the luas infrastructure is life expired.

Carawaystick

end of the road wrote: »

we don't know, as usually bus will have it's own market who don't use rail.

Considering how few people travel by train from Galway to Limerick vs how many travel by coach, Bus has it's own market pretty sewn up... Almost all the people don't use rail.

Markcheese

I dont think anyone is suggesting replacing a viable rail line with a greenway... but, If IE are planning on closing /mothballing a line... then it probably hasnt got much future... I have no probably with IE leaving the greenway alignments on short 5 year leases... just in case ...

TCDStudent1

http://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/roundup/articles/2016/09/06/4126124-mayo-velorail-project-first-in-ireland/

Grandeeod

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

http://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/roundup/articles/2016/09/06/4126124-mayo-velorail-project-first-in-ireland/

Ive no problem with that.

Muckyboots

Grandeeod wrote: »

Ive no problem with that.

Honestly? Is it genuinely viable as a business? Would you get €30K on Dragons Den for 10% ? Would Michael Ring put €180,000 of his own money into this idea? For Greenway advocates it's good news and breaks the ice. It will send West on Track back to the drawing boards with a brand new "join the dots" sheet. But for taxpayers, really?