Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

BoatMad

eastwest wrote: »

Yes, and a greenway will keep it in public ownership in case a future generation goes back to using railways in sufficient numbers to keep them viable.
The alternative to a greenway on these closed lines isn't a train, it's a gradual loss of the asset to takeover by adjoining landowners, road building and development. That's the reality outside of cloud cuckoo land.

There is no reason why a closed railway has to have its lands sequestered by adjoining landowners , which reasonable legal vigilance, a few appropriate letters, adverse possession cannot be claimed

this notion you advance is a red herring

savagethegoat

elastico wrote: »

Not sure where the opportunity is though. The tourists won't come. They visit Westport / Achill already anyway so hiring a bike is a bolt on as the greenway slices right through an established tourist draw.

A greenway won't draw tourists to middle Wexford or middle Mayo / Sligo.

ferryport linked to Europe and the Uk perhaps?

topnotch

I think Waterford is an ideal hub for the connection of three potential Greenways. People could stay in Waterford and travel to Rosslare, New Ross and Dungarvan.

Del.Monte

topnotch wrote: »

I think Waterford is an ideal hub for the connection of three potential Greenways. People could stay in Waterford and travel to Rosslare, New Ross and Dungarvan.

Or they could arrive in Waterford by train from Rosslare if CIE hadn't been running the route into the ground for decades. Anyway I'm off to watch the rugby.

jackofalltrades

elastico wrote: »

Not sure where the opportunity is though. The tourists won't come. They visit Westport / Achill already anyway so hiring a bike is a bolt on as the greenway slices right through an established tourist draw.

A greenway won't draw tourists to middle Wexford or middle Mayo / Sligo.

Tourists are already coming to Wexford due to Rosslare port.
Having a greenway means that there's more for them to do, it could be the difference between them passing through or stopping for a while.
Also even though they're rare at the moment you do see people touring Ireland by bike.
Having a route away from the traffic would be very appealing.

end of the road wrote: »

anyone going to those will be going via road. not via bike.

You're missing the point.
The greenway will bring in more visitors to the area, the unused rail line will not.

.....a greenway along this particular rail line would destroy part of the last remaining cross country link. it therefore must be faught against.
plenty of other rail lines that are actually disused and that will actually offer something worth cycling along, such as new-ross.

The links gone, there's no hope of the line being re-opened for commercial services.
All you're doing is stopping a development that could actually be of benefit.
You can't complain that Wexford is being "let to rot" while opposing reasonable ideas to stop it's decline.
Or maybe you can, you're only visting after all, you won't be putting up with the consequences.

end of the road

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Tourists are already coming to Wexford due to Rosslare port.
Having a greenway means that there's more for them to do, it could be the difference between them passing through or stopping for a while.

they are best getting the hell out of there as quick as possible.

jackofalltrades wrote: »

You're missing the point.
The greenway will bring in more visitors to the area, the unused rail line will not.

they're won't be hords of people coming to south wexford to cycle. you heard it here first.

jackofalltrades wrote: »

The links gone, there's no hope of the line being re-opened for commercial services.
All you're doing is stopping a development that could actually be of benefit.
You can't complain that Wexford is being "let to rot" while opposing reasonable ideas to stop it's decline.
Or maybe you can, you're only visting after all, you won't be putting up with the consequences.

visiting?
the link won't be gone until CIE finally rip it up in the final act of destruction before moving on to the final solution for the line to dublin.

elastico

savagethegoat wrote: »

ferryport linked to Europe and the Uk perhaps?

There is an airport in Shannon too. A greenway won't hold the tourists.

Only a small number would be cycle tourists anyway, I doubt many visit Westport / Achill just because of the greenway.

A better comparison for Wexford and Sligo would be the greenway in west Limerick.

I don't see any bike hire or tourists on that one, its a local amenity that's about it.

topnotch

A good surface is vital for a successful greenway project. The surface of the Great Southern Trail is poor (loose gravel) mostly and progress is very slow. Also a key tunnel at Branagh is bypassed due to the main N21. In comparison the newly opened Deise Greenway has a much better tar chip surface.

I could see three attractions on the South Wexford Line to start with. Dunbroady Abbey on the greenway and the JFK Arboretum and Johnstown Castle not far from the greenway. Also the barrow bridge and snow hill tunnel would be great attractions. I remember crossing the Mississippi in Burlington Iowa and thinking it wasn't much further across than the Barrow bridge.

savagethegoat

Greenways are huge in mainland Europe and tourists come to Ireland for the unspoiled countryside. Put the two together and I can't see how it could fail.

here's a random one I pulled from youtube....count the bikes!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNPXKxguwQQ

Grandeeod

How times have changed!

It used to be a case of CIE's care and maintenence programme dooming a line to oblivion. After much criticism, the NTA take over and the South Wexford line has been maintained better than anything CIE ever did. Now the new threat is the feckin bicycle! I said it before and I'll say it again...far far too early to be contemplating a Greenway on this route.

Del.Monte

savagethegoat wrote: »

Greenways are huge in mainland Europe and tourists come to Ireland for the unspoiled countryside. Put the two together and I can't see how it could fail.

here's a random one I pulled from youtube....count the bikes!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNPXKxguwQQ

I note that the Bristol Greenway doesn't appear to be tarmac - quelle surprise. Are Greenways purely for cyclists and have to be tarmac? What about walkers who like an 'unspolit' path through the countryside. As usual Ireland has to do things differently. I suppose it could be worse i.e Euro Cobble.

topnotch

Del.Monte wrote: »

I note that the Bristol Greenway doesn't appear to be tarmac - quelle surprise. Are Greenways purely for cyclists and have to be tarmac? What about walkers who like an 'unspolit' path through the countryside. As usual Ireland has to do things differently. I suppose it could be worse i.e Euro Cobble.

There is quite a detailed network of way marked walkways that are more unspoilt in nature.
http://www.irishtrails.ie/images/interactive_map.gif
A tarmac surface is ideal for a greenway as it allows the cyclists and walkers to travel at a comfortable pace with room to pass easily.

Muckyboots

elastico wrote: »

Only a small number would be cycle tourists anyway, I doubt many visit Westport / Achill just because of the greenway.

Wrong ! Go look,

westtip

BoatMad wrote: »

There is no reason why a closed railway has to have its lands sequestered by adjoining landowners , which reasonable legal vigilance, a few appropriate letters, adverse possession cannot be claimed

this notion you advance is a red herring

Ahem.....

westtip

elastico wrote: »

Not sure where the opportunity is though. The tourists won't come. They visit Westport / Achill already anyway so hiring a bike is a bolt on as the greenway slices right through an established tourist draw.

A greenway won't draw tourists to middle Wexford or middle Mayo / Sligo.

Not quite sure you have grasped the concept of long distance continuous greenways, the western rail trail campaign, wants to see a greenway from Athenry to Collooney utilising the closed railway route, that will connect with the Dublin Galway Greenway near Athenry, with the Great Western greenway at maybe Charlestown/Swinford and with the Enniskillen Sligo greenway at Collooney. This will allow long distance cycling trips without sharing a road with cars all the way from Dublin to Achill or Enniskillen. Passing through the "middle Mayo/Sligo" will be part of this long distance holiday. They have to get off the bike to eat drink and sleep. It will also of course be a local community facility as well. There is huge potential in this idea, it is such a pity it is not been grasped by Mayo and Galway county councils who still hold onto the notion that a fairy godmother is going to wave a wand and re-open the closed railway. It's not going to happen.

marno21

westtip wrote: »

Ahem.....

Where is this westtip?

How do West on Track propose to run trains down here?

jd

Grandeeod wrote: »

How times have changed!

It used to be a case of CIE's care and maintenence programme dooming a line to oblivion. After much criticism, the NTA take over and the South Wexford line has been maintained better than anything CIE ever did. Now the new threat is the feckin bicycle! I said it before and I'll say it again...far far too early to be contemplating a Greenway on this route.

Absolutely.
What should be encouraged is a Greenway Waterford to New Ross, and I think I heard that Wexford Co Co would like it to continue on to St Mullins.
I came across some discussion somewhere on the South Wexford thing, I'll see if I can dig it up.

westtip

marno21 wrote: »

Where is this westtip?

How do West on Track propose to run trains down here?

It's at the northern end of the Western Rail Trail route near Collooney, there are plenty more examples the whole way down the line to Claremorris, this is why it is such a joke that for example the Mayo county planning department stated "the railway line is still in place" used as an excuse by Mayo county planning executive when they considered the 300 submissions on the county plan asking for a greenway. The Mayo county council management used false information when drafting the Mayo County Plan.

eastwest

BoatMad wrote: »

There is no reason why a closed railway has to have its lands sequestered by adjoining landowners , which reasonable legal vigilance, a few appropriate letters, adverse possession cannot be claimed

this notion you advance is a red herring

In your world, maybe, but a reality everywhere else.
It's not just about squatters, although they are a problem. It's also about closed railways being sold off, or having roads built over them, or generally being lost to public ownership.
Look at the railway map from the early part of the last century, and look at what's left.

eastwest

westtip wrote: »

It's at the northern end of the Western Rail Trail route near Collooney, there are plenty more examples the whole way down the line to Claremorris, QUOTE]

And lots of places in between

Sam Russell

Surely legislation could be introduced to prevent/preclude adverse possession applying to railway land. (Squatters rights).

In fact, such legislation outlawing squatter rights should apply to all Government owned lands.

hytrogen

savagethegoat wrote:

Greenways are huge in mainland Europe and tourists come to Ireland for the unspoiled countryside. Put the two together and I can't see how it could fail.

So is efficient and effective public transport, especially railways to bring them and their families to where they want to start their adventure

savagethegoat

hytrogen wrote: »

So is efficient and effective public transport, especially railways to bring them and their families to where they want to start their adventure

there is not enough accommodation on a train for a family and their bikes. Almost no one does it that way

Del.Monte

eastwest wrote: »

westtip wrote: »

It's at the northern end of the Western Rail Trail route near Collooney, there are plenty more examples the whole way down the line to Claremorris, QUOTE]

And lots of places in between

Those two 'grabbers' should be put through the courts, but it suits CIE to have the line vandalised. Incidentally, what will the grabbers make of walkers and cyclists trekking through their gardens?

eastwest

It's not their garden.

eastwest

hytrogen wrote: »

savagethegoat wrote:

Greenways are huge in mainland Europe and tourists come to Ireland for the unspoiled countryside. Put the two together and I can't see how it could fail.

So is efficient and effective public transport, especially railways to bring them and their families to where they want to start their adventure

The European experience (as well as the US and Australia/NZ) is that the lucrative market is in the touring business, where people take a couple of weeks touring a country or region, either on their own bikes or as a package provided by a bike hire company. This often includes baggage transfers and accommodation along the routes. This demographic in Europe alone contains up to 20 million customers, but to date Ireland has decided that we don't want this business.
Well, not all of Ireland, just the west mostly. The east coast has started on a long route that will connect the Barrow to the deise greenway and on to the canals and Dublin. The boyne and navan Kingscourt will connect the Region to Northern Ireland, where the entire network of closed lines is under scrutiny by Northern Ireland greenways.
So, the east coast will get the infrastructure, the west will get weeds and briars and a chance to whinge that nothing gets done in the west.

elastico

savagethegoat wrote: »

Greenways are huge in mainland Europe and tourists come to Ireland for the unspoiled countryside. Put the two together and I can't see how it could fail.

here's a random one I pulled from youtube....count the bikes!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNPXKxguwQQ

Nobody is trying to deny greenways are not popular in Europe.

I am not sure what comparison you are trying to make though, Bristol and Bath are about 15 miles apart and have an immediate population of about 1 million people. Naturally the path will have loads of bikes, as there is the population to use it.

elastico

eastwest wrote: »

So, the east coast will get the infrastructure, the west will get weeds and briars and a chance to whinge that nothing gets done in the west.

Apart from Tralee - Fenit, Westport - Achill, Newcastlewest - Tralee, Ennis - Lahinich to name a few works in progress.

savagethegoat

elastico wrote: »

Nobody is trying to deny greenways are not popular in Europe.

I am not sure what comparison you are trying to make though, Bristol and Bath are about 15 miles apart and have an immediate population of about 1 million people. Naturally the path will have loads of bikes, as there is the population to use it.

i wasn't making any comparison and clearly said it was a random clip, the first I came across

eastwest

elastico wrote: »

eastwest wrote: »

So, the east coast will get the infrastructure, the west will get weeds and briars and a chance to whinge that nothing gets done in the west.

Apart from Tralee - Fenit, Westport - Achill, Newcastlewest - Tralee, Ennis - Lahinich to name a few works in progress.

All short stay routes with no direct connection to Dublin.