Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

westtip

eastwest wrote: »

westtip wrote: »

It's at the northern end of the Western Rail Trail route near Collooney, there are plenty more examples the whole way down the line to Claremorris, QUOTE]

And lots of places in between

eastwest, Hadn't seen that landgrab 3 photo for a while. I believe that one was taken in Mayo near Kiltimagh, this is an example of the railway line that Mayo county council stated when reviewing 300 submissions on the county plan asking for a greenway that "the WRC is not a former rail line, the track is still in place", as are the piles of wood on the track waiting for the steam train!

eastwest

westtip wrote: »

eastwest wrote: »

eastwest, Hadn't seen that landgrab 3 photo for a while. I believe that one was taken in Mayo near Kiltimagh, this is an example of the railway line that Mayo county council stated when reviewing 300 submissions on the county plan asking for a greenway that "the WRC is not a former rail line, the track is still in place", as are the piles of wood on the track waiting for the steam train!

Meanwhile, in Kiltimagh, the intact WRC awaits a (political gravy) train...

Del.Monte

eastwest wrote: »

westtip wrote: »

Meanwhile, in Kiltimagh, the intact WRC awaits a (political gravy) train...

It's looking a bit rough but well up to the usual standard of CIE's idea of mothballing. :rolleyes:

BoatMad

eastwest wrote: »

In your world, maybe, but a reality everywhere else.
It's not just about squatters, although they are a problem. It's also about closed railways being sold off, or having roads built over them, or generally being lost to public ownership.
Look at the railway map from the early part of the last century, and look at what's left.

railways being sold off, is a decision , if there is a necessity to repurpose them for roads thats also a " decision " , none of that impacts on the red herring that Greenways save a railway from adverse possession

Sam Russell

BoatMad wrote: »

railways being sold off, is a decision , if there is a necessity to repurpose them for roads thats also a " decision " , none of that impacts on the red herring that Greenways save a railway from adverse possession

The law needs to be changed to outlaw 'adverse possession' with respect to railway lines and government property. That would be prudent.

BoatMad

Sam Russell wrote: »

The law needs to be changed to outlaw 'adverse possession' with respect to railway lines and government property. That would be prudent.

The law is more then sufficient , assuming even a cursory degree of legal attention is maintained

end of the road

eastwest wrote: »

All short stay routes with no direct connection to Dublin.

they can travel in comfort via train to dublin (at least that can be said for that route)
granted they're is a change for a lot of services and the bike provision isn't fantastic but if they can buy a fold up they should be fine. yes they would rather cycle it but as that isn't really the best option at the moment, they may as well use what we have got.

Sam Russell

BoatMad wrote: »

The law is more then sufficient , assuming even a cursory degree of legal attention is maintained

Not so - Dunsink being a good example.

It should not require eternal vigilance on behalf of Government agency to keep at bay 'adverse possession'. All it takes is a pile of logs left to 'dry' on the land for 12 years - no active possession. Railway lines that are disused are prone to this as it is difficult for CIE to keep an eye on the track when it is disused.

It should be enacted to stop this adverse possession causing undue stealing of the nations property.

Grandeeod

Sam Russell wrote: »

Not so - Dunsink being a good example.

It should not require eternal vigilance on behalf of Government agency to keep at bay 'adverse possession'. All it takes is a pile of logs left to 'dry' on the land for 12 years - no active possession. Railway lines that are disused are prone to this as it is difficult for CIE to keep an eye on the track when it is disused.

It should be enacted to stop this adverse possession causing undue stealing of the nations property.

With all due respect Sam, CIE don't care, have never cared and will never ever care. The WRC was and is a very rare case when it comes to possession of a line. The blame ultimately comes back to the particular groups who promoted reopening of the line since 1981 right up to the formation of WOT in 2003. Even when this possession aspect was pointed out to them, they ignored it. There was no effort whatsoever to address the actual issue. A previous Government minister made a pitiful attempt by providing funds to clear away bushes and put up fancy new fake level crossing gates. However, the gardens and driveways were left alone. Local campaigns never want to upset locals.

Claremorris to Collooney is the ultimate railway joke.

Del.Monte

Grandeeod wrote: »

With all due respect Sam, CIE don't care, have never cared and will never ever care. The WRC was and is a very rare case when it comes to possession of a line. The blame ultimately comes back to the particular groups who promoted reopening of the line since 1981 right up to the formation of WOT in 2003. Even when this possession aspect was pointed out to them, they ignored it. There was no effort whatsoever to address the actual issue. A previous Government minister made a pitiful attempt by providing funds to clear away bushes and put up fancy new fake level crossing gates. However, the gardens and driveways were left alone. Local campaigns never want to upset locals.

Claremorris to Collooney is the ultimate railway joke.

NEVER! Don't forget the Velorail project at Kiltimagh. It could be extended to take in the entire rail network.

westtip

Del.Monte wrote: »

NEVER! Don't forget the Velorail project at Kiltimagh. It could be extended to take in the entire rail network.

Ah yes the Velo Rail project which Mayo county council threw into the county plan despite not receiving one submission asking for it, and almost 300 submissions asking for a greenway. The Kiltimagh velorail will effectively privatise the railway for a short section of a few kilometres and will make the public asset off limits for the people of Kiltimagh. Mayo coco made pathetic excuses to include the velo rail in the county plan claiming it meant the "railway" would be kept in place, despite what we all know about the railway being ripped up in parts, tarmacced over and running through peoples gardens. Mayo county planners should be ashamed of themselves for the way they treated public submissions on this subect two years ago when the county plan was being drawn up not to mention the way they have treated those people who have had the audacity to challenge the way that episode was managed.

what_traffic

Article posted yesterday in teh Connacht Tribune
http://connachttribune.ie/report-records-increase-in-passenger-use-of-athenry-to-ennis-rail-link-900/
"
The report findings show that phase one of the Western Rail Corridor has now met a business case which set out a target of 100,000 passengers or more for the section.
"

savagethegoat

what_traffic wrote: »

Article posted yesterday in teh Connacht Tribune
http://connachttribune.ie/report-records-increase-in-passenger-use-of-athenry-to-ennis-rail-link-900/
"
The report findings show that phase one of the Western Rail Corridor has now met a business case which set out a target of 100,000 passengers or more for the section.
"

at a cost of slashing the fares by 50%.

eastwest

what_traffic wrote: »

Article posted yesterday in teh Connacht Tribune
http://connachttribune.ie/report-records-increase-in-passenger-use-of-athenry-to-ennis-rail-link-900/
"
The report findings show that phase one of the Western Rail Corridor has now met a business case which set out a target of 100,000 passengers or more for the section.
"

Compared to the promised 250,000.

eastwest

westtip wrote: »

Ah yes the Velo Rail project which Mayo county council threw into the county plan despite not receiving one submission asking for it, and almost 300 submissions asking for a greenway. The Kiltimagh velorail will effectively privatise the railway for a short section of a few kilometres and will make the public asset off limits for the people of Kiltimagh. Mayo coco made pathetic excuses to include the velo rail in the county plan claiming it meant the "railway" would be kept in place, despite what we all know about the railway being ripped up in parts, tarmacced over and running through peoples gardens. Mayo county planners should be ashamed of themselves for the way they treated public submissions on this subect two years ago when the county plan was being drawn up not to mention the way they have treated those people who have had the audacity to challenge the way that episode was managed.

The velo rail project appears to be a bit of clever politicking, stopping the greenway and also killing off the railway for good. Net result; 'both sides can f**k off and give us a bit of peace'.

eastwest

BoatMad wrote: »

railways being sold off, is a decision , if there is a necessity to repurpose them for roads thats also a " decision " , none of that impacts on the red herring that Greenways save a railway from adverse possession

A greenway stops the gradual loss of the asset as happens all the time, usually under the radar because an overgrown rail line is not something that is of concern to anyone. Bits of old rail routes get eaten away all the time and nobody notices. Even the small but vocal lobby group 'west on track' failed to notice the various breaches in the route that they aspire to see as a railway, as detailed in several photos in this thread. Go around the country to any of the disused rail lines and see the way that they have been eaten away by councils, by Irish rail and by squatters.
Look at the branch line that diverged off the now Deise Greenway near Dungarvan, for instance. It has been handed over to the squatters for the most part and is now effectively private property. It is nothing short of a scandal, but nobody says anything in case they upset the squatters.
It is recognised everywhere that trails keep these former rail routes open and in public hands. That's a reality. Not keeping them open results in them being lost; that is also a reality.
In the case of the western rail trail, the reality is that there will be no trains on that route for decades, if ever, but that is no excuse for letting it slip out of public ownership. Apart from the heritage value, it would be very expensive and difficult to re-create a long route like this, and it may well be needed for transport or other use in the future. In the meantime, we should use our heads and leverage it, and not listen to the rabble-rousing blather that is mostly about keeping Council and Dail seats, and nothing to do with the best interests of the people who live alongside it.

Del.Monte

Good to see the increase in traffic on the existing part of the WRC, but I should imagine it would be far greater if the line remained above water for longer each year.

westtip

what_traffic wrote: »

Article posted yesterday in teh Connacht Tribune
http://connachttribune.ie/report-records-increase-in-passenger-use-of-athenry-to-ennis-rail-link-900/
"
The report findings show that phase one of the Western Rail Corridor has now met a business case which set out a target of 100,000 passengers or more for the section.
"

Actually the business case was built and presented on far greater numbers. 100,000 was the year one usage target rising to 250,000 by year 5, we are now past year 5, and the year one target has apparently been achieved, although my guess is there may be some figures massaging in the 100,000 (eg how many fare paying passengers?), however 100,000 represents 40% of the business case target for year 5. Achieving 40% of your business case in anyones book is a failure. 100,000 probably represents the peak of usage. If an original business case had been put forward for 35,000 passengers in year one rising to 100,000 by year five the railway would not have been built. West on Track and the likes of Canney and michael ring know this, they can take pleasure in hitting the year one targets by year five. If I had a salesman working for me with these kind of figures he would be fired!

Oh by the way I presume these exciting figures mean Ballylugin bridge will now not come down! and something will be done about the turf cutting causing the embankment to fall in! and mayo coco won't be allowed to give part of the line to a private enterprise!

Oh yeh I forgot - this is all about saying we are getting it done without delivering anything.

serfboard

what_traffic wrote: »

Article posted yesterday in teh Connacht Tribune

The Connacht Tribune:

The Connacht Tribune wrote:

A report examining the use of the Athenry to Ennis rail link has found that over 102,000 passengers used the service in 2015.

The results of the comprehensive CICERO survey were launched at Ireland West Airport Knock this evening.

Minister Ring and OPW Minister and Galway East T.D Seán Canney officiated at the event.

The report findings show that phase one of the Western Rail Corridor has now met a business case which set out a target of 100,000 passengers or more for the section.

Many critics of the Western Rail Corridor have argued that an expansion of the service into a second phase to link up with Claremorris isn’t viable due to insufficient take-up.

However, campaign group ‘West on Track’ has argued that an expansion onto phase two would provide an economic boost to the wider western region and further investment is needed.

Minister Canney says the survey shows a second phase does have potential and can be examined for areas such as freight and tourism.

And from Galway Bay FM:

Galway Bay FM wrote:

There are calls for a rethink of any plan to expand the Western Rail Corridor.

It comes as a report examining the use of the Athenry to Ennis rail link has found that over 102 thousand passengers used the service in 2015.

The results of the comprehensive CICERO survey were launched at Ireland West Airport Knock this week.

Its findings show that phase one of the Western Rail Corridor has now met a business case which set out a target of 100 thousand passengers or more for the section.

Campaign group ‘West on Track’ has argued that an expansion onto phase two into Claremorris would provide an economic boost to the wider western region and further investment is needed.

However, Tuam area Independent councillor Shaun Cunniffe says the Athenry to Ennis section carries a cost of 12 million euro per year and is a waste of money.

He says investing that money in a rural bus service would be a better use of scarce funds.

Well now, this stuff is interesting. As usual, WOT doesn't take actual IE figures, but a PR guy, trading as Cicero Communications, produces these figures from a survey that he did. Being a PR guy, I doubt he did this on his own time as a freebie - therefore it's safe to assume that he was paid by West On Track to do the survey, and surprise, surprise, the "survey" gets the figures that the client presumably wanted ...

We've had this crap from WOT before, and Sean Canny keeps (wanting to) buy it. Fair play to Shaun Cunniffe for telling it like it is.

I'll wait till we get the actual figures from IE before I make a judgement.

NiallBoo

I think discussing the current figures is a little short-sighted.
Really we should be looking at 20 years from now and what the demand will be like then, rather than during years if economic struggle.

The long-standing trend of satellite, commuter-based housing development is only going to continue and in spite of all of the hopes for the outer bypass, traffic in Galway is only going to get worse.
Limerick will struggle similarly with more congestion and lack of housing stock.

It's a little hard to get your head around that this might have happened in Ireland, but I think this is just a case of us building infrastructure before there's a critical need for it.

savagethegoat

NiallBoo wrote: »

I think discussing the current figures is a little short-sighted.
Really we should be looking at 20 years from now and what the demand will be like then, rather than during years if economic struggle.

The long-standing trend of satellite, commuter-based housing development is only going to continue and in spite of all of the hopes for the outer bypass, traffic in Galway is only going to get worse.
Limerick will struggle similarly with more congestion and lack of housing stock.

It's a little hard to get your head around that this might have happened in Ireland, but I think this is just a case of us building infrastructure before there's a critical need for it.

In twenty years time, electric cars will be common place. What hope for rail then if it's still oil based and prices sky rocketing due to supplies running out? Rail needs investment now in the areas that it excels to combat that. It doesn't need a WRC millstone round it's neck.

westtip

serfboard wrote: »

We've had this crap from WOT before, and Sean Canny keeps (wanting to) buy it. Fair play to Shaun Cunniffe for telling it like it is.

I'll wait till we get the actual figures from IE before I make a judgement.

Exactly, they have been quiet for a while and then come up with this rubbish. Kicking the can down the road par excellence. They always come up with a straw in the wind to say what it maybe we can breathe life into this corpse once again, you have to hand it to them, they love a good report in which they have massaged the figures.

BoatMad

savagethegoat wrote: »

In twenty years time, electric cars will be common place. What hope for rail then if it's still oil based and prices sky rocketing due to supplies running out? Rail needs investment now in the areas that it excels to combat that. It doesn't need a WRC millstone round it's neck.

err , if all transport is electric based , then the oil won turn out and clearly it will be cheap ,


Thats what happening today, were awash with oil and it cheap as a result

peak oil is soooo 80s

savagethegoat

BoatMad wrote: »

err , if all transport is electric based , then the oil won turn out and clearly it will be cheap ,


Thats what happening today, were awash with oil and it cheap as a result

peak oil is soooo 80s

the point being the oil will never run out because it will get so expensive to get out of the ground. Less demand will make it dearer not cheaper of course, as it will cost more per barrel to extract for that reason also.

eastwest

:D:D

Del.Monte wrote: »

NEVER! Don't forget the Velorail project at Kiltimagh. It could be extended to take in the entire rail network.

Velo-on-track! It might prove to be a good replacements for the trains!
Sorry I was late, dear, the velo cart in front had two pensioners on free travel and they were very slow!'

MayoForSam

Del.Monte wrote: »

NEVER! Don't forget the Velorail project at Kiltimagh. It could be extended to take in the entire rail network.

Good luck with that one - when I went on a velo-rail in France, we were wrecked after about 5 miles. What's more, everyone had to head off in the same direction at the same time, then turn around, lift the carriage by hand, point it in the other direction and come back once you got to the end - not exactly conducive to pedaling all the way from Athenry to Collooney . Good fun but useless as a local amenity for would-be walkers, cyclists, etc.

serfboard

NiallBoo wrote: »

The long-standing trend of satellite, commuter-based housing development is only going to continue and in spite of all of the hopes for the outer bypass, traffic in Galway is only going to get worse.

God love your innocence. I invite you to take a look at a Google Maps satellite view east of Galway City to see how non-satellite the commuter-based housing development is - which is why the trains are so poorly utilised.

And to know why this happened I use the following mnemonic: FF FF PP TD - Frank Fahy Fianna Fail Planning Permission Teachta Dála.

westtip

Just thought wed pop this out for a balanced view in the press.

Press release From: The Western Rail Trail campaign
October 11th 2016 for immediate release

• Report on Western Rail Corridor shows new railway has failed.
• Only achieving 40% of original business case target.
• European TEN- T Transport means empty talk of railways need to be ignored.
• Politicians need to embrace realities say greenway campaigners

A spokesman for the Western rail Trail Campaign – a group campaigning to preserve the alignment of the closed rail line from Athenry to Collooney by utilising the route for tourism and leisure as a greenway, until such time as a railway may be possible, today gave a welcome to the release of a report commissioned by campaign group West on Track that shows the first phase of the Western Rail Corridor has failed.

Spokesman for the Western Rail Trail campaign Brendan Quinn said “it is very interesting to see this new report on the Western Rail Corridor published by rail campaign group West on Track that highlights the failure of the new railway from Ennis to Athenry to live up to expectations”

The report commissioned by West on Track by Galway based market research company Cicero communications was launched this week at a press conference at Knock Airport attended by Junior Ministers Sean Canney and Michael Ring.

The report findings show that phase one of the Western Rail Corridor from Ennis to Athenry had 100,000 passengers in 2015 which amounts to 40% of the passenger numbers forecast in the original business plan.

The original business case to re-build the railway line from Ennis to Athenry, providing a rail link between Limerick and Galway was based on achieving 100,000 passengers in year one rising to 250,000 passengers by year five. We are now in year six of operations and the route has finally hit the year one target. To claim this is a success is ridiculous said Quinn.

The line was re-opened in 2010. In the first year of operation, 2010/11 passenger numbers were about 35,000. With a lot of price promotions and marketing, according to the claims of this latest report the year one target of 100,000 passengers has finally been achieved.

Quinn said “This figure represents 40% of the original target figure of 250,000 per annum to use the line by the end of year five. The stark reality is that after five years in operation achieving 100,000 passengers on this line represents a massive failure of the project when considered against the business case used to persuade the government of the time to use public funds to build and subsidise the Western Rail Corridor. Talking up these numbers as a success is ludicrous said Quinn, the Western Rail Corridor has failed.

Capital projects such as building railways rely on external funding, in Irelands case this is usually from EU structural funding. To attract funding for new railway projects any project, anywhere in the EU, will almost certainly have to have been included in European TEN-T Transport plans drawn up and approved by the EU parliament in 2013. The Western Rail Corridor is not included in this grand European list of transport projects which is the blue print for projects that will receive transport funding over the next 20 years. The fact that phase one of the Western Rail Corridor has underperformed the original business case forecasts by 60% will lessen the chances of funding even further. The EU are unlikely to change an already agreed transport plan to pump money into another Western Rail Corridor failure.

The time has come for an end to reports being written about a railway for which there is no business case. The idea of utilising the route as a greenway has widespread popular support and politicians need to start taking note of this more practical and realistic solution that will actually create real jobs.


ENDS: body text 582 wordsContacts: Brendan Quinn 087 4198193 Find us on Facebook: sligomayogreenwaycampaign
email brenquinn@eircom.net

BoatMad

It's sad to see people knocking rail transport merely to promote their own agenda. I am finding I dislike " greenway campaigners " more and more

marno21

BoatMad wrote: »

It's sad to see people knocking rail transport merely to promote their own agenda. I am finding I dislike " greenway campaigners " more and more

The tramway between Collooney and Claremorris is completely unsuitable for a railway. If a Galway-Sligo railway was ever to open it would have to open on a new alignment to be feasible. With the M17 to open and other pending N17 and N4 upgrades, the railway would have to be competitive. The current alignment is not.

What currently remains of the Collooney-Claremorris line is of no benefit to anyone along the route. Opening a greenway would be very beneficial to the towns along the route.