Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

Muckyboots

BoatMad wrote: »

It's sad to see people knocking rail transport merely to promote their own agenda. I am finding I dislike " greenway campaigners " more and more

The truth is that there are zealots on both sides of the argument, and sometimes people do tackle the man instead of the ball, but after all the huffing & puffing, public and private, towns like Kiltimagh, Tuam, Swinford, Tubbercurry and Coolaney are continuously starved of much need investment, amenities and infrastructure- be it cycling or rail.

westtip

BoatMad wrote: »

It's sad to see people knocking rail transport merely to promote their own agenda. I am finding I dislike " greenway campaigners " more and more

Not true. Merely pointing out the truth. Trying to claim hitting 100,000 passengers after five years is a success is simply denial of the fact that this project has massively failed expectations. The new "report" from West on Track was a privately funded (we think) market research report commissioned by West on Track, having done quite a lot of MR in my life I know only too well how MR results can come out as you want them to. The 100,000 figure quoted in this report is not even official figures from Irish Rail, which needs to be clarified. The problem with a piece of market research being put into the media as a fact which proves somehow the WRC has been a success is complete misnoma and massaging the reality of the fact. The press release put out by the Western Rail Trail was merely to point out to journalists and politicians perhaps unaware of the facts or not as close to the subject as many of us, that the business case for the WRC was inflated beyond belief to ensure the project got the go ahead. With a lot of price promotions the 100,000 figure for the WRC in terms of passenger numbers in 2015 is probably not far off its peak unless Irish Rail start carrying everyone for free. The WRC was built on a business case of 250,000 fare paying passengers by year 5, the latest market research figures from West on Track do not I believe break out the fare paying and non fare paying (eg pensioners) pasengers. Fact: it has failed to reach 40% of its business case volume after six years in operation. Journalists need to know the other side of the story, this is not knocking railway investment it is ensuring that railway investment is not wasted on more vanity projects.

eastwest

MayoForSam wrote: »

Good luck with that one - when I went on a velo-rail in France, we were wrecked after about 5 miles. What's more, everyone had to head off in the same direction at the same time, then turn around, lift the carriage by hand, point it in the other direction and come back once you got to the end - not exactly conducive to pedaling all the way from Athenry to Collooney . Good fun but useless as a local amenity for would-be walkers, cyclists, etc.

Not useless though, if it stops the tourism jobs from coming to Kiltimagh; that is success in itself. Beware the curse of the greenway! The tourists might carry off our comely maidens!

eastwest

marno21 wrote: »

What currently remains of the Collooney-Claremorris line is of no benefit to anyone along the route. Opening a greenway would be very beneficial to the towns along the route.

But it wouldn't be beneficial to a handful of politicians who have feck all to offer except the promise of a train, sometime.

serfboard

BoatMad wrote: »

It's sad to see people knocking rail transport merely to promote their own agenda. I am finding I dislike " greenway campaigners " more and more

Two arguments West On Track used to use to anyone who disagreed with them:

1. "Ye're agin the Wesht!".
2. "Ye're anti-rail!".

Both of these are untrue. I, and others on here, are from the West and live in the West and are very much in favour of sustainable, properly-planned Western Development.

As for the second argument, again, I and others here are not anti-rail. I am very much pro-rail, but only where it makes sense. I certainly advocate more investment in the Greater Dublin Area, on the Cork->Dublin->Belfast corridor, and even double-tracking Athlone->Dublin so Mayo and Galway trains don't have to wait to pass each other. The Department of Transport's position is that outside of that, there will be no new investment in rail. Existing rail will stay, and any new investment will be on bus transport, which, conisdering all the motorways we now have, seems sensible to me.

Despite what you seem to think, Greenway campaigners are not enviously eyeing up every rail line in the state, hoping to rip it up. Squatters, in fact, are a far bigger threat to the unused rail lines, but then, nobody seems to care, or to be doing anything, about that ...

end of the road

serfboard wrote: »

As for the second argument, again, I and others here are not anti-rail. I am very much pro-rail, but only where it makes sense. I certainly advocate more investment in the Greater Dublin Area, on the Cork->Dublin->Belfast corridor, and even double-tracking Athlone->Dublin so Mayo and Galway trains don't have to wait to pass each other. The Department of Transport's position is that outside of that, there will be no new investment in rail. Existing rail will stay, and any new investment will be on bus transport, which, conisdering all the motorways we now have, seems sensible to me.

i don't agree. it makes little sense when they're are more pressing projects needing doing.
the following would have a lot more benefits to a lot more people then throwing money at a form of transport that really doesn't add anything.
1. more heavy railh around dublin where possible and where not, trams. if this is planned and done right that could mean the end of much of the bus network.
2. dart underground/dart north/airport rail link.
3. reconnecting navan to the network, examining the feasibility of connecting any very populated towns that haven't got a rail link to the network on a decent fast alinement.
4. actually bringing up the existing network to the highest speeds allowed within the formation, finishing the killdare route project and quad tracking the dart line as much as is possible, either doubling where possible, or installing enough passing loops, to insure that all lines have a 2 hourly, or hourly service depending on destination. galway and belfast should be hourly. if limerick isn't, then it should be.

serfboard

end of the road wrote: »

the following would have a lot more benefits to a lot more people then throwing money at a form of transport that really doesn't add anything.
1. more heavy railh around dublin where possible and where not, trams. if this is planned and done right that could mean the end of much of the bus network.
2. dart underground/dart north/airport rail link.
3. reconnecting navan to the network ...
4. ... finishing the killdare route project and quad tracking the dart line as much as is possible ...

All of this can be summed up by what I said:

serfboard wrote: »

more investment in the Greater Dublin Area

And nowhere did you advocate for re-opening the unopened sections of the Western Rail Corridor so I take it that you agree with me on that.

eastwest

end of the road wrote: »

serfboard wrote: »

As for the second argument, again, I and others here are not anti-rail. I am very much pro-rail, but only where it makes sense. I certainly advocate more investment in the Greater Dublin Area, on the Cork->Dublin->Belfast corridor, and even double-tracking Athlone->Dublin so Mayo and Galway trains don't have to wait to pass each other. The Department of Transport's position is that outside of that, there will be no new investment in rail. Existing rail will stay, and any new investment will be on bus transport, which, conisdering all the motorways we now have, seems sensible to me.

i don't agree. it makes little sense when they're are more pressing projects needing doing.
the following would have a lot more benefits to a lot more people then throwing money at a form of transport that really doesn't add anything.
1. more heavy railh around dublin where possible and where not, trams. if this is planned and done right that could mean the end of much of the bus network.
2. dart underground/dart north/airport rail link.
3. reconnecting navan to the network, examining the feasibility of connecting any very populated towns that haven't got a rail link to the network on a decent fast alinement.
4. actually bringing up the existing network to the highest speeds allowed within the formation, finishing the killdare route project and quad tracking the dart line as much as is possible, either doubling where possible, or installing enough passing loops, to insure that all lines have a 2 hourly, or hourly service depending on destination. galway and belfast should be hourly. if limerick isn't, then it should be.

Navan is now served by a motorway that can carry fast bus traffic to Dublin, more than enough to meet needs for the foreseeable future. The rail line may open in the future if demographics change, but it'll be a while.
Because of its sprawling nature, Dublin will always rely for the most part on bus transport. It would be impossible to replace the bus network with rail. A metro system would relieve congestion in the centre, but would need bus feeders.
And the same applies to the north west, but even more so, given the fact that it is lightly and thinly populated. Rail can't do the job there, which is why it died out. Only for the beet trains, athenry Tuam wouldn't have lasted as long as it did.

end of the road

eastwest wrote: »

Navan is now served by a motorway that can carry fast bus traffic to Dublin, more than enough to meet needs for the foreseeable future.

i'm afraid that isn't correct. supposibly fast bus traffic does not offer the same benefits to the town as a rail link would. it gets stuck in traffic and still has a long journey time. reopening the rail link needs doing soon, infact it needed doing years ago.

eastwest wrote: »

The rail line may open in the future if demographics change, but it'll be a while.

it's demographics support a rail link. the reason it hasn't opened and probably won't is politics.

eastwest wrote: »

Because of its sprawling nature, Dublin will always rely for the most part on bus transport.

again, it's politics and refusal to invest in big projects that are the reasons it will continue to rely on bus transport, which is an inefficient form of transport for a capital city. granted they're are some places that won't need rail, but much of dublin could support it. it could have also supported retaining the tram system originally, but politics saw it's destruction. yes it needed renewal, but the absolutely laughable idea that a bunch of diesel busses, requiring a driver for each one, could replace a tram system was a political one, based on ideology, of a road only transport system.

eastwest wrote: »

It would be impossible to replace the bus network with rail.

in some areas maybe, however, the vast majority of the bus services could be replaced by a tram at least.

eastwest wrote: »

A metro system would relieve congestion in the centre, but would need bus feeders.

it's not just the city centre that suffers from congestion. it's also not about just removing congestion, it's about insuring public transport is the majority option within the cities. the only form of transport that is likely to attract usership is a rail based solution.

eastwest wrote: »

the same applies to the north west, but even more so, given the fact that it is lightly and thinly populated. Rail can't do the job there, which is why it died out. Only for the beet trains, athenry Tuam wouldn't have lasted as long as it did.

well, it doesn't really. the north west is a lot different to the cities. however, for that area, bus will only be attractive to those who cannot drive for whatever reason. it's not going to become the majority transport either.
the intercity market and the very populated areas are the only exception to the trend of bus usership not being well supported, but build an efficient rail link to those very populated areas from the city which don't have one all ready and the busses will be deserted.

Grandeeod

end of the road wrote: »

i'm afraid that isn't correct. supposibly fast bus traffic does not offer the same benefits to the town as a rail link would. it gets stuck in traffic and still has a long journey time. reopening the rail link needs doing soon, infact it needed doing years ago.



it's demographics support a rail link. the reason it hasn't opened and probably won't is politics.



again, it's politics and refusal to invest in big projects that are the reasons it will continue to rely on bus transport, which is an inefficient form of transport for a capital city. granted they're are some places that won't need rail, but much of dublin could support it. it could have also supported retaining the tram system originally, but politics saw it's destruction. yes it needed renewal, but the absolutely laughable idea that a bunch of diesel busses, requiring a driver for each one, could replace a tram system was a political one, based on ideology, of a road only transport system.



in some areas maybe, however, the vast majority of the bus services could be replaced by a tram at least.



it's not just the city centre that suffers from congestion. it's also not about just removing congestion, it's about insuring public transport is the majority option within the cities. the only form of transport that is likely to attract usership is a rail based solution.



well, it doesn't really. the north west is a lot different to the cities. however, for that area, bus will only be attractive to those who cannot drive for whatever reason. it's not going to become the majority transport either.
the intercity market and the very populated areas are the only exception to the trend of bus usership not being well supported, but build an efficient rail link to those very populated areas from the city which don't have one all ready and the busses will be deserted.

In relation to the Navan railway, I'm an expert. The motorway doomed it in terms of a transport mode and the damage its construction did to the alignment. The last known estimate was half a billion.(and that was conservative)

The entire Navan railway issue was based on a poor N3 and a chocabloc M50 prior to upgrade. The argument now for a railway to Navan on the original alignment is a lot weaker than it was 10 years ago.

hytrogen

I have to admit after travelling down from Donegal to Galway today, as much as I love my luxurious car I would far prefer to have left it up in Sligo for the weekend & drive back from there on Sunday as I've a wedding on down here & am not looking forward to the drive back up afterwards! Just those few extra hours nap on an intercity rather than falling asleep in snail paced traffic entering the greater Galway area, what an absolute pain in the left nut!!

Muckyboots

hytrogen wrote: »

I have to admit after travelling down from Donegal to Galway today, as much as I love my luxurious car I would far prefer to have left it up in Sligo for the weekend & drive back from there on Sunday as I've a wedding on down here & am not looking forward to the drive back up afterwards! Just those few extra hours nap on an intercity rather than falling asleep in snail paced traffic entering the greater Galway area, what an absolute pain in the left nut!!

I promise you there would have been a hen party going down and a stag party going up and you wouldn't have slept a wink.

hytrogen

Muckyboots wrote:

I promise you there would have been a hen party going down and a stag party going up and you wouldn't have slept a wink.

At least I could drink off the hangover with them!

mayo.mick

Just spotted this,

http://www.mayo.ie/news/report-optimistic-for-future-development-of-western-rail-corridor/

Del.Monte

Next stop Collooney.

what_traffic

mayo.mick wrote: »

Just spotted this,

http://www.mayo.ie/news/report-optimistic-for-future-development-of-western-rail-corridor/

"

Seán Canney, TD, Minister of State OPW, said he was working closely with Minister Ring and other colleagues to ensure that the Atlantic Corridor becomes a reality. “The restoration of the Mayo-Galway rail link is a key part of that as far as I’m concerned,” he said.
Referring to the numbers using Phase One of Western Rail Corridor from Ennis to Athenry, Minister Canney stated, “These numbers exceed the original business case and put to bed the myth that the Western Rail Corridor is a white elephant.”
"
Really?

eastwest

what_traffic wrote: »

mayo.mick wrote: »

Just spotted this,

http://www.mayo.ie/news/report-optimistic-for-future-development-of-western-rail-corridor/

"

Se n Canney, TD, Minister of State OPW, said he was working closely with Minister Ring and other colleagues to ensure that the Atlantic Corridor becomes a reality. The restoration of the Mayo-Galway rail link is a key part of that as far as I m concerned, he said.
Referring to the numbers using Phase One of Western Rail Corridor from Ennis to Athenry, Minister Canney stated, These numbers exceed the original business case and put to bed the myth that the Western Rail Corridor is a white elephant.
"
Really?

No, not really. It's completely inaccurate, to be exact.
The original 'case' on which the government made the 'investment' (God help us!) decision was based on two and a half times these numbers.
The report is not an official report, despite the way that Canney is furiously spinning it. Neither is it new; it was commissioned last year by a certain railway anorak lobby group that has Canney as a member of long standing.
Ring's pronouncements about an Atlantic corridor are just a touch of cute hoorism designed to cover all bases. Once DOT gets its actually together on the issue it is most likely to recommend an upgraded N17, which fits with Ring's prophesy. Should Canney manage to pull off the impossible and deliver a ghost train, Ring will still be seen to have backed the right horse.
And of course by ensuring that no cycling infrastructure is built in mayo outside his own patch, Ring wins again.

Muckyboots

http://galwaybayfm.ie/funding-crisis-could-put-ennis-to-athenry-rail-route-at-risk

Galway Bay fm newsroom – The National Transport Authority says a report on the future of Iarnród Eireann was prepared before the budget spending allocations were announced.

The draft document, outlined in The Irish Times, warns that some parts of the network, such as Ennis to Athenry, could face closure without additional government funding.

The Ennis to Athenry route only came back into service in 2010 at a cost of 100 million euro.

The report says that although the number of people using trains is on the rise again, Irish Rail could still lose about 11 million euro nationally this year.

Irish Rail and the National Transport Authority worked together on the report, which is due to be published shortly, and the NTA says its findings and conclusions will become clear then.

The NTA claims the report was prepared before the spending increases announced in the new Budget.

But Industry correspondent with the Irish Times, Martin Wall, says there’s a very uncertain future for train passengers.

eastwest

Muckyboots wrote: »

http://galwaybayfm.ie/funding-crisis-could-put-ennis-to-athenry-rail-route-at-risk

Galway Bay fm newsroom – The National Transport Authority says a report on the future of Iarnród Eireann was prepared before the budget spending allocations were announced.

The draft document, outlined in The Irish Times, warns that some parts of the network, such as Ennis to Athenry, could face closure without additional government funding.

The Ennis to Athenry route only came back into service in 2010 at a cost of 100 million euro.

The report says that although the number of people using trains is on the rise again, Irish Rail could still lose about 11 million euro nationally this year.

Irish Rail and the National Transport Authority worked together on the report, which is due to be published shortly, and the NTA says its findings and conclusions will become clear then.

The NTA claims the report was prepared before the spending increases announced in the new Budget.

But Industry correspondent with the Irish Times, Martin Wall, says there’s a very uncertain future for train passengers.

The only thing keeping Ennis-Athenry open is the buffer of the two other dead ducks -- Nenagh and Limerick Junction-Waterford. Nenagh was closed but reopened by Alan Kelly when he was minister, but it can't last, it is carrying a tiny handful of passengers. Once it and the Limerick Junction Waterford line have closed, the entire focus will be on Ennis-Athenry, the third of the three heavily loss-making lines.
Sean Canney and the other anoraks can spin their report all they like, the writing is on the wall for Ennis-Athenry -- the only thing keeping it open is politics, hardly the best way to spend tax euros. And what government is going to put huge money into further subsidisation of rail? Rail already gets 50% of the subsidies but carries 12% of the passengers; any further subsidies will go where they have the most impact, like rural transport links.
As for anything north of Athenry, what planet are they on?

Del.Monte

eastwest wrote: »

The only thing keeping Ennis-Athenry open is the buffer of the two other dead ducks -- Nenagh and Limerick Junction-Waterford. Nenagh was closed but reopened by Alan Kelly when he was minister, but it can't last, it is carrying a tiny handful of passengers. Once it and the Limerick Junction Waterford line have closed, the entire focus will be on Ennis-Athenry, the third of the three heavily loss-making lines.
Sean Canney and the other anoraks can spin their report all they like, the writing is on the wall for Ennis-Athenry -- the only thing keeping it open is politics, hardly the best way to spend tax euros. And what government is going to put huge money into further subsidisation of rail? Rail already gets 50% of the subsidies but carries 12% of the passengers; any further subsidies will go where they have the most impact, like rural transport links.
As for anything north of Athenry, what planet are they on?

There's nothing to be gained by the closure of your so-called 'dead ducks' as the amount saved won't turn round CIE's finances. How much of the railway system needs to be torn up before you realise this? Even McKinsey & Co., not noted as being pro-rail, realised that the heaviest losses are are on the busiest routes. By that logic, if it's all about saving money, CIE should close Dublin/Cork and keep the few cross country routes open.

eastwest

Del.Monte wrote: »

There's nothing to be gained by the closure of your so-called 'dead ducks' as the amount saved won't turn round CIE's finances. How much of the railway system needs to be torn up before you realise this? Even McKinsey & Co., not noted as being pro-rail, realised that the heaviest losses are are on the busiest routes. By that logic, if it's all about saving money, CIE should close Dublin/Cork and keep the few cross country routes open.

It should be all about giving best value to the taxpayer, as well as being environmentally conscious, and improving traffic flows. Hence a subsidy to the DART, for instance, is justifiable.
And a clarification; the heaviest losses per passenger are on these three routes.
The Ennis-Athenry line meets none of these criteria; hauling empty trains around the country is inefficient and wasteful, regardless of the economics. Continuing to spend scarce money on subsidising this line once the entire route has a parallel motorway system is nuts; the community would be far better served by using that subsidy to provide local link transport to give citizens access to access points for fast coach services on the motorway.

westtip

Greenway group puts out press release re NTA report leaked to Irish Times

Press release From: The Western Rail Trail campaign
October 24th 2016 for immediate release
• National Transport Authority Report says closures not new railways the most likely scenario
• Minister Ross told greenway group “in the context of the Rail Review which I have recently received from the NTA and Irish Rail .....I cannot look at the Western Rail Corridor in isolation from the rest of the network”
• Low usage railway lines now under threat, and new railways will not be built
• Greenway will create tourism jobs along Atlantic Economic Corridor.

A spokesman for the Western rail Trail Campaign – a group campaigning to preserve the alignment of the closed rail line from Athenry to Collooney by utilising the route for tourism and leisure as a greenway, until such time as a railway may be possible, today said the most recent government report from the National Transport Authority shows the likelihood of any new investment in heavy rail is even more unlikely and a greenway is now the only realistic option for the closed railway route.

The report from the NTA provided to Minister Shane Ross recently was reported by the Irish Times today, October 24th, states the rail network needs more than €600 million investment over the next five years, to maintain the existing network.

Spokesman for the Western Rail Trail campaign Brendan Quinn said Minister Ross sent the greenway campaign an email earlier this month, which the group has now released. In that email received on October 17th Minister Ross said the following about the NTA report he had on his desk, the same report which has been published today:

“I will have to examine this commitment in the context of the Rail Review which I have recently received from the NTA and Irish Rail. The review is a strategic look at the role of Irish Rail and the financial resources required to continue to provide services on a sustainable basis. Clearly, I cannot look at the Western Rail Corridor in isolation from the rest of the network. I expect to brief my cabinet colleagues on the Review shortly”

(Shane Ross Minister of Transport email to Brendan Quinn on October 17th 2016)

The report from The National Transport Authority which will now go to cabinet is a stark reality check for any hopes of a railway being re-opened between Athenry to Tuam onwards towards Claremorris at anytime in the near future, said Quinn. The time has now come for a decision.

The option of placing a greenway on the route until such time as a railway may be possible in the future is the best way of protecting the route in public ownership and generating tourism related jobs along the route as part of the Atlantic economic corridor project.


ENDS: body text 367 words Contacts: Brendan Quinn 087 4198193

 
Email received from Shane Ross Minister of Transport on October 17th 2016-10-24 Sent to Greenway campaign group Western Rail Trail to Brendan Quinn

Our Ref: SR/16/12359
Dear Brendan
I wish to thank you for your correspondence of the 31st of May relating to the proposed study on the Western Rail Corridor. I apologies for the delay in responding.
The Programme for Partnership Government includes a commitment to provide for an independent costing and review of a proposal to extend the Western Rail Corridor (WRC) by linking Athenry and Claremorris. I’m aware that there is considerable debate as to whether the Western Rail Corridor should be re-opened as a rail link or re-developed as a greenway. I have received a number of representations supporting both proposals.
I will have to examine this commitment in the context of the Rail Review which I have recently received from the NTA and Irish Rail. The review is a strategic look at the role of Irish Rail and the financial resources required to continue to provide services on a sustainable basis. Clearly, I cannot look at the Western Rail Corridor in isolation from the rest of the network. I expect to brief my cabinet colleagues on the Review shortly.
I then intend to ensure that the public and all interested parties get an opportunity to contribute to the debate on the future of rail and I intend that this will be done by publication of the review and commencement of a public consultation process on it.
I look forward to considering all contributions made during this process.


With best wishes,


Shane Ross

eastwest

Now that Canney has got the promised report, will he now acknowledge that he is flogging a dead horse and will he get on with giving people what they want -- a decent local amenity that will also bring jobs to Tuam and Athenry.

eastwest

Now that Canney has got the promised report, will he now acknowledge that he is flogging a dead horse and will he get on with giving people what they want -- a decent local amenity that will also bring jobs to Tuam and Athenry.

Del.Monte

eastwest wrote: »

It should be all about giving best value to the taxpayer, as well as being environmentally conscious, and improving traffic flows. Hence a subsidy to the DART, for instance, is justifiable.
And a clarification; the heaviest losses per passenger are on these three routes.
The Ennis-Athenry line meets none of these criteria; hauling empty trains around the country is inefficient and wasteful, regardless of the economics. Continuing to spend scarce money on subsidising this line once the entire route has a parallel motorway system is nuts; the community would be far better served by using that subsidy to provide local link transport to give citizens access to access points for fast coach services on the motorway.

Semantics, the heaviest losses (€) are on the busiet routes. Either there's a case for railways or there isn't and further closures and you might as well close the lot.

serfboard

Del.Monte wrote: »

Semantics, the heaviest losses (€) are on the busiet routes.

That's a ridiculous argument.

By your logic, If I spend €10 million subsidising the journey of Mary Murphy (with her flask of tea and sangwiches) from Gort to Ennis, but €20 million subsidising the journies of 50,000 passengers from Galway to Athlone, I should close Galway to Athlone?

What a load of nonsense.

end of the road

eastwest wrote: »

The only thing keeping Ennis-Athenry open is the buffer of the two other dead ducks -- Nenagh and Limerick Junction-Waterford. Nenagh was closed but reopened by Alan Kelly when he was minister, but it can't last, it is carrying a tiny handful of passengers. Once it and the Limerick Junction Waterford line have closed, the entire focus will be on Ennis-Athenry, the third of the three heavily loss-making lines.
Sean Canney and the other anoraks can spin their report all they like, the writing is on the wall for Ennis-Athenry -- the only thing keeping it open is politics, hardly the best way to spend tax euros. And what government is going to put huge money into further subsidisation of rail? Rail already gets 50% of the subsidies but carries 12% of the passengers; any further subsidies will go where they have the most impact, like rural transport links.

limerick nenagh ballybroaphy was not closed. Alan Kelly only forced IE to introduce a direct service to dublin. while not a popular idea on here i actually commend him on it because frankly IE wouldn't have bothered doing anything otherwise because not bothering is what they do. limerick junction waterford is far from a dead duck. it has a few decent sized towns on it which could support a rail service if frequent, reliable, and allowed people to connect with other services. again, a simple case of IE not bothering because "shur that is how it was always done" . the same with the rosslare waterford section of the rosslare limerick cross country corridor, decent usership dispite what the figures said (which can be verified by those who actually used it who i will believe over irish rail)
if politics keeps the railways open, it's something we will just have to live with. i would rather they are kept open because we became a grown up country who see them as part of our infrastructure, but as that is unlikely to happen then i will take anything that keeps them open so that eventually we may grow up and they will be there. if gone, they are gone forever, they're is no going back. so the railway should get 50% of funding. it's a very important piece of infrastructure and while used by less then road, they're is plenty of scope for growth and investment. what government is going to put further investment into rail, a proper government who believes in investing in it's future and who wants a decent country with decent infrastructure to attract investment and growth. rail can be a part of that whether people like it or not. road transport as our only solution is laughable and has been proven a failure. rural transport schemes won't have as much of an impact as a decent rail system. if you are complaining about rail supposibly being disused, why would you think the government are going to invest in rural transport links that won't have use at all most likely?

eastwest wrote: »

It should be all about giving best value to the taxpayer, as well as being environmentally conscious, and improving traffic flows. Hence a subsidy to the DART, for instance, is justifiable.

it is about value to the tax payer and users of public transport. the subsidy to the whole rail network is justifiable, as it provides a service to people who would not use public transport otherwise. they would not be using bus, that is a fact.

eastwest wrote: »

Continuing to spend scarce money on subsidising this line once the entire route has a parallel motorway system is nuts;

no it's not. regardless of the argument of whether it should have been reopened or not in the first place, the idea that because they're is a motor way they're is no need for a railway is 1960s gibberish.

eastwest wrote: »

the community would be far better served by using that subsidy to provide local link transport to give citizens access to access points for fast coach services on the motorway.

no it wouldn't. people are not going to bother their arses getting on a bus to go to another point to get another bus on the motor way when they can just drive it. they are a bit more willing to drive to a train as it offers a better quality of transport then the coach ever could. depending on what stock irish rail use of course.

Muckyboots

Del.Monte wrote: »

Semantics, the heaviest losses (€) are on the busiet routes. Either there's a case for railways or there isn't and further closures and you might as well close the lot.

This will test whether Minister Ross has the balls he professes or whether he is under the thumb of a bunch of parish pumpers- if it's the later he should do the honorable thing.

Del.Monte

serfboard wrote: »

That's a ridiculous argument.

By your logic, If I spend €10 million subsidising the journey of Mary Murphy (with her flask of tea and sangwiches) from Gort to Ennis, but €20 million subsidising the journies of 50,000 passengers from Galway to Athlone, I should close Galway to Athlone?

What a load of nonsense.

Thank you, I'm well aware of what I was saying but if it's down to pure economics then closing everything down makes the most sense.

Del.Monte

Muckyboots wrote: »

This will test whether Minister Ross has the balls he professes or whether he is under the thumb of a bunch of parish pumpers- if it's the later he should do the honorable thing.

Shane Ross is an opportunist who will do whatever is in Shane Ross's interest and the country can go to hell. His history shows his ability to change horses frequently and I expect the pattern to continue.