Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

westtip

Sean Canney towing the SF/WOT party line

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/news-at-one/

Del.Monte

westtip wrote: »

Sean Canney towing the SF/WOT party line

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/news-at-one/

Good for him too - the so-called WRC should never have been closed in the first place.

end of the road

schemingbohemia wrote: »

This statement is contradictory.

IE didn't ask for the WRC, they opposed it. They were told to build and operate it so how can you state it wasn't forced on them?

because they are only the operator and infrastructure maintainer. we own the infrastructure and if the government decides to add to it then the operator will operate.

westtip

Del.Monte wrote: »

Good for him too - the so-called WRC should never have been closed in the first place.

Here is a wee song for ye#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IAOJn4l1Ls

Then have a listen to this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfv0EGFjxK0

Del.Monte

I've watched your two videos an up you with this one of a WOT committee meeting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXMUv_cKtLM

westtip

Del.Monte wrote: »

I've watched your two videos an up you with this one of a WOT committee meeting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXMUv_cKtLM

Yes indeed a classic.

Grandeeod

Del.Monte wrote: »

Good for him too - the so-called WRC should never have been closed in the first place.

Gooo Waaayyy ya troll.:D

eastwest

Del.Monte wrote: »

I've watched your two videos an up you with this one of a WOT committee meeting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXMUv_cKtLM

Unreality TV?

eastwest

Del.Monte wrote: »

I've watched your two videos an up you with this one of a WOT committee meeting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXMUv_cKtLM

Unreality TV?

sonnyblack

Del.Monte wrote: »

Good for him too - the so-called WRC should never have been closed in the first place.

He's fairly combative. He mentioned that WRC carries as much passengers per annum as Dublin to Belfast railway. Is that spinning or is he correct?

eastwest

sonnyblack wrote: »

Del.Monte wrote: »

Good for him too - the so-called WRC should never have been closed in the first place.

He's fairly combative. He mentioned that WRC carries as much passengers per annum as Dublin to Belfast railway. Is that spinning or is he correct?

Spin. It's complete rubbish.

westtip

sonnyblack wrote: »

He's fairly combative. He mentioned that WRC carries as much passengers per annum as Dublin to Belfast railway. Is that spinning or is he correct?

They call the Athenry - Galway line part of the Western Rail Corridor, in their mindset once a passenger on a train from Dublin to Galway passes through Athenry they are then on the Western Rail Corridor. Bizarre I know but that is the mindset that needs to be dealt with. WOT bump the numbers up also claiming regular commuters from Ennis to Limerick are technically WRC passengers, the Ennis Limerick commuter route and the Athenry - Galway commuter route were long established before the missing link from Ennis to Athenry was reopened at a cost of €105 million plus subvention running costs these past six years. I wouldn't take too much heed of any numbers from WOT, back in the halcyon days they forecast 750,000 people would be using "The Corridor" per annum once it opened. Delusional is the word you need to use when looking at any figures from West on Track supporters.

eastwest

mayo.mick wrote: »

Last year, Iarnród Éireann received State grants of €308 million (the equivalent of half the cost of the National Children’s Hospital) and still made a loss of €7.7 million.

All public transport requires subsidy, the problem here is the disproportionality of the way that subsidy is spent.
Rail got half the subsidy, but only carried 12% of the passengers. Even within that statistic, services like the DART and the Dublin-Cork/Dublin-Belfast routes enjoyed good load factors; the picture for the WRC is far worse if taken in isolation.
The problem with the railway model all along the WR corridor is low population density, scattered housing (not enough people live within walking distance of a railway station), and an ever improving road network coupled with a high level of car ownership and an improving private sector bus industry. Even West on Crack have begun to recognise this, and their anti-tourism stance has now switched to freight in an attempt to stop the greenway people getting their way.

Carawaystick

eastwest wrote: »

All public transport requires subsidy,

Does Citylink?
Does the ferries to Britain or France?
Do the airlines?

eastwest

Carawaystick wrote: »

Does Citylink?
Does the ferries to Britain or France?
Do the airlines?

I was referring to internal public transport, but even with external there is a net subsidy in terms of provision of airports and ports, which do recover some of those coasts over time by mean of charges. Internal air transport is heavily subsidised.
As I said though, rail is very bad value for money when it comes to passenger movements, if you look at it on purely economic terms, and lightly used rail is a disaster when it comers to getting bang for your tax buck. If you have a limited pot to spend, as the Minister does, it makes sense to only spend it on rail in areas of very high demand. That is why Navan for instance can't get traction for a rail service, even though it arguably would have made a lot more sense at the time than the politically driven decision to re-open Ennis-Athenry

Del.Monte

Carawaystick wrote: »

Does Citylink?
Does the ferries to Britain or France?
Do the airlines?

It could be argued that the likes of Citylink are being subsidised as by their very existence they are cost the State revenue through increased lost revenue to CIE. In the past various airlines operated internal air routes once again damaging CIE and costing the State (CIE) revenue - a subsidy by another name?

Del.Monte

eastwest wrote: »

I was referring to internal public transport, but even with external there is a net subsidy in terms of provision of airports and ports, which do recover some of those coasts over time by mean of charges. Internal air transport is heavily subsidised.
As I said though, rail is very bad value for money when it comes to passenger movements, if you look at it on purely economic terms, and lightly used rail is a disaster when it comers to getting bang for your tax buck. If you have a limited pot to spend, as the Minister does, it makes sense to only spend it on rail in areas of very high demand. That is why Navan for instance can't get traction for a rail service, even though it arguably would have made a lot more sense at the time than the politically driven decision to re-open Ennis-Athenry

Navan didn't get its rail link because of FF and Noel Dempsey and don't anybody forget it.

eastwest

Del.Monte wrote: »

eastwest wrote: »

I was referring to internal public transport, but even with external there is a net subsidy in terms of provision of airports and ports, which do recover some of those coasts over time by mean of charges. Internal air transport is heavily subsidised.
As I said though, rail is very bad value for money when it comes to passenger movements, if you look at it on purely economic terms, and lightly used rail is a disaster when it comers to getting bang for your tax buck. If you have a limited pot to spend, as the Minister does, it makes sense to only spend it on rail in areas of very high demand. That is why Navan for instance can't get traction for a rail service, even though it arguably would have made a lot more sense at the time than the politically driven decision to re-open Ennis-Athenry

Navan didn't get its rail link because of FF and Noel Dempsey and don't anybody forget it.

And because the case for it was marginal at best. And because of capacity issues at connolly station.

end of the road

eastwest wrote: »

And because the case for it was marginal at best. And because of capacity issues at connolly station.

how was it marginal considering the population? would it be because it would have meant less traffic on the m3? well so be it. the capacity issues at connolly needed dealing with even back then and definitely do now.

n97 mini

Del.Monte wrote: »

In the past various airlines operated internal air routes once again damaging CIE and costing the State (CIE) revenue - a subsidy by another name?

Still do. Dublin - Donegal and Dublin - Kerry are subsidised (aka PSO) routes, to the tune of around €30 per passenger per flight. Makes no sense to subsidise a flight that has a direct rail competitor, also subsidised.

n97 mini

eastwest wrote: »

And because the case for it was marginal at best. And because of capacity issues at connolly station.

It would probably bypass Connolly and terminate in Docklands at peak times.

Del.Monte

eastwest wrote: »

And because the case for it was marginal at best. And because of capacity issues at connolly station.

Not so - it was entirely down to political machinations.

schemingbohemia

n97 mini wrote: »

Still do. Dublin - Donegal and Dublin - Kerry are subsidised (aka PSO) routes, to the tune of around €30 per passenger per flight. Makes no sense to subsidise a flight that has a direct rail competitor, also subsidised.

They've kept that rail link to Donegal well hidden!!

marno21

schemingbohemia wrote: »

They've kept that rail link to Donegal well hidden!!

That's the Kerry one he's on about. There's a rail link from Farranfore - Dublin, the railway station is about 1km from the airport.

Sad that Kerry Airport has better rail connectivity than Dublin, Shannon, Knock or Cork but anyway.

westtip

couple of .pdfs courtesy of the Tuam Herald, thank you to Tuam Herald for the .pdfs it appears the greenway campaign is being well debated in East Galway now, must be driving West on Crack mad.

Muckyboots

Del.Monte wrote: »

It could be argued that the likes of Citylink are being subsidised as by their very existence they are cost the State revenue through increased lost revenue to CIE. In the past various airlines operated internal air routes once again damaging CIE and costing the State (CIE) revenue - a subsidy by another name?

Ah here, you're stretching it now. Burkes Buses run a very popular reliable and user friendly bus service in and out of Galway from a few east Galway towns and villages. No Subsidy. Factoring employment, income tax, corporation tax, vehicle tax and VAT they must be big net contributors to the state coffers.
Do you seriously think that the state should subsidise a vastly inferior train service to try and compete with them? Build those boys more bus lanes instead.

end of the road

Muckyboots wrote: »

Ah here, you're stretching it now. Burkes Buses run a very popular reliable and user friendly bus service in and out of Galway from a few east Galway towns and villages. No Subsidy. Factoring employment, income tax, corporation tax, vehicle tax and VAT they must be big net contributors to the state coffers.
Do you seriously think that the state should subsidise a vastly inferior train service to try and compete with them? Build those boys more bus lanes instead.

roads = hidden subsidies. now i don't really have an issue with that, but lets not pretend otherwise. why would we build those boys more bus lanes when they can use the over specked roads? they have got good infrastructure as it is

Del.Monte

Good to see the return of a Westrail stalwart to the fray.

Del.Monte

And the campaign goes on - it can't be long before the first train through to Sligo.

Grandeeod

Del.Monte wrote: »

Good to see the return of a Westrail stalwart to the fray.

Frank Dawson has made one really poor argument there. Its like comparing apples and oranges on the basis of which is better deep fried in batter. I never rated him. His connection to the WRC was based on his Daddy.