Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

eastwest

Del.Monte wrote: »

Will the Athenry - Collooney line ever reopen as a railway?

I believe that 'LOL' is the term for the most logical answer to that question.

Grandeeod

Del.Monte wrote: »

Will the Athenry - Collooney line ever reopen as a railway?

I say this with my feet firmly placed in the no camp regarding anything to do with the WRC, but if FF get back into Government, you will see Athenry - Tuam reopened despite a big nearly finished Motorway alongside it. I hope that pleases you Del.:D

Del.Monte

Grandeeod wrote: »

I say this with my feet firmly placed in the no camp regarding anything to do with the WRC, but if FF get back into Government, you will see Athenry - Tuam reopened despite a big nearly finished Motorway alongside it. I hope that pleases you Del.:D

If you promise that will happen I'll vote FF, early and often, as to quote that well-known train spotter Tim O'Flaherty - "I really need it to open".

Grandeeod

Del.Monte wrote: »

If you promise that will happen I'll vote FF, early and often, as to quote that well-known train spotter Tim O'Flaherty - "I really need it to open".

I can't promise anything as I'm not a member of FF.:D But I do a decent Mystic Meg!

eastwest

Grandeeod wrote: »

Del.Monte wrote: »

Will the Athenry - Collooney line ever reopen as a railway?

I say this with my feet firmly placed in the no camp regarding anything to do with the WRC, but if FF get back into Government, you will see Athenry - Tuam reopened despite a big nearly finished Motorway alongside it. I hope that pleases you Del.:D

There was a time, certainly, when somebody like O'Cuiv could have swung a pet project like this, but not now. Irish rail will do it if they are ordered to do it, but they will want ongoing funding to cover the running losses and not have to pay the bill out of the existing block subsidy. That's the mistake they made with ennis athenry; they grabbed capital funding even though they knew it was going to end in tears, but they won't be caught out like that again.
That's where this will be blocked. A FF cabinet or a cabinet with FF in it might well decide to come up with the capital, based on a very woolly business case, but no minister is going to vote to get into an everlasting subsidy on a white elephant.
O'Cuiv would, and might even get one or two to support him, but not a majority of ministers.

eastwest

Del.Monte wrote: »

Grandeeod wrote: »

I say this with my feet firmly placed in the no camp regarding anything to do with the WRC, but if FF get back into Government, you will see Athenry - Tuam reopened despite a big nearly finished Motorway alongside it. I hope that pleases you Del.:D

If you promise that will happen I'll vote FF, early and often, as to quote that well-known train spotter Tim O'Flaherty - "I really need it to open".

You forgot to add "because Dublin has the luas".

Grandeeod

eastwest wrote: »

There was a time, certainly, when somebody like O'Cuiv could have swung a pet project like this, but not now. Irish rail will do it if they are ordered to do it, but they will want ongoing funding to cover the running losses and not have to pay the bill out of the existing block subsidy. That's the mistake they made with ennis athenry; they grabbed capital funding even though they knew it was going to end in tears, but they won't be caught out like that again.
That's where this will be blocked. A FF cabinet or a cabinet with FF in it might well decide to come up with the capital, based on a very woolly business case, but no minister is going to vote to get into an everlasting subsidy on a white elephant.
O'Cuiv would, and might even get one or two to support him, but not a majority of ministers.

FF have a habit of covering everlasting subsidy. The FTP is their legacy that we can't escape.

Logue no2

Grandeeod wrote: »

FF have a habit of covering everlasting subsidy. The FTP is their legacy that we can't escape.

And don't underestimate the damage the West on Crack page did to the Greenway campaigners credibility. Ireland is a small place after all. :-)

Grandeeod

Logue no2 wrote: »

And don't underestimate the damage the West on Crack page did to the Greenway campaigners credibility. Ireland is a small place after all. :-)

Personally I couldn't give a fiddlers about the Greenway.

eastwest

Logue no2 wrote: »

Grandeeod wrote: »

FF have a habit of covering everlasting subsidy. The FTP is their legacy that we can't escape.

And don't underestimate the damage the West on Crack page did to the Greenway campaigners credibility. Ireland is a small place after all. :-)

It's nothing to the damage it did to the anorak campaign, or the credibility of the chief anorak. ;-)
Satire is a terrible thing, especially for the thin skinned. However I doubt that government policy will ultimately be decided on the basis that somebody took the p*as out of some village idiot somewhere.

Logue no2

eastwest wrote: »

It's nothing to the damage it did to the anorak campaign, or the credibility of the chief anorak. ;-)
Satire is a terrible thing, especially for the thin skinned. However I doubt that government policy will ultimately be decided on the basis that somebody took the p*as out of some village idiot somewhere.

Indeed and you have succinctly summed up why your collective long hours on this thread attacking your regular "villain of the day" is in reality time wasted. Your time that is! :-)

eastwest

Logue no2 wrote: »

eastwest wrote: »

It's nothing to the damage it did to the anorak campaign, or the credibility of the chief anorak. ;-)
Satire is a terrible thing, especially for the thin skinned. However I doubt that government policy will ultimately be decided on the basis that somebody took the p*as out of some village idiot somewhere.

Indeed and you have succinctly summed up why your collective long hours on this thread attacking your regular "villain of the day" is in reality time wasted. Your time that is! :-)

Sure we're all wasting our time. Greenway campaigners have wasted years of their time trying to preserve the rail route and bring employment to Galway and Mayo, and the ancient ones have wasted a lot of their dwindling years trying to go back to the old days when everything was perfect and you could set your wind-up pocket watch by the passing train.
It's all been a waste of time, except for the handful of politicians who made a very lucrative career out of it.

Muckyboots

Logue no2 wrote: »

And don't underestimate the damage the West on Crack page did to the Greenway campaigners credibility. Ireland is a small place after all. :-)

Like this forum - W.O.C was circulating among a small group of people until others tried to use it as a tactic to beat on the Greenway campaign.
Fair enough - what's good for the goose et al. But the tracks are still lying rusting so let's move on ( or off) and let people that have to live with fallout from the lack of action - any action- keep their collective fires lit.

eastwest

Politicians are terrified of satire. Many of them take themselves so seriously that satirising them really rattles them. And remember that 'hall's pictorial weekly' is credited with bringing down a government; it had got to a stage where people were mixing ministers up with their satirical doubles. That memory lives on in political minds.

Logue no2

eastwest wrote: »

Politicians are terrified of satire. Many of them take themselves so seriously that satirising them really rattles them. And remember that 'hall's pictorial weekly' is credited with bringing down a government; it had got to a stage where people were mixing ministers up with their satirical doubles. That memory lives on in political minds.

It wasn't the piss taking of Sean Canney that caused you the problems it was your take on mental health issues that did it.

hytrogen

Del.Monte wrote:

Will the Athenry - Collooney line ever reopen as a railway?

I'm sure certain stages of it would be justifiable given the populations of many of the town's it passed through. If they introduced a program of re-establishing certain legs, got people motivated to use them while their fares paid for it and the next stage of re-establishing it and start showing it's viability, like the way they are extending the luas it could be a runner

eastwest

Logue no2 wrote: »

eastwest wrote: »

Politicians are terrified of satire. Many of them take themselves so seriously that satirising them really rattles them. And remember that 'hall's pictorial weekly' is credited with bringing down a government; it had got to a stage where people were mixing ministers up with their satirical doubles. That memory lives on in political minds.

It wasn't the piss taking of Sean Canney that caused you the problems it was your take on mental health issues that did it.

You've lost me completely now, probably happened when you barked up the wrong tree on a wild fishing expedition.
I don't recall Sean Canney being mentioned anywhere on the 'West on crack' page, but obviously you managed to read and retain all the posts. Likewise I don't recall anything on there about mental health, but I stand corrected, if you say so.
I was a fan, but not a fanatic.

serfboard

hytrogen wrote: »

If they introduced a program of re-establishing certain legs, got people motivated to use them while their fares paid for it

Ah God love ya - a total fantasy land you're living in.

The M17 will be finished by the end of the year. For Tuam and points south, Burkes Bus and private cars will be the publics preferred option even if the railway was re-built.

Which it won't be.

Now you could ask the question - what about the traffic chaos at Parkmore and in Galway itself? A good Park & Ride (possibly at the old airport) could take care of that for far less money than re-building and then subsidising the railway line.

BuffyBot

Yet again I find myself having to post about civility, respect, the forum charter, reporting posts instead of responding on thread etc etc.

I'm tired of typing all of this. Don't find yourself the cause of my next repetition

end of the road

serfboard wrote: »

The M17 will be finished by the end of the year. For Tuam and points south, Burkes Bus and private cars will be the publics preferred option even if the railway was re-built.

Which it won't be.

if they want to be stuck in traffic. if they want high quality fast and reliable public transport, then a rebuilt railway to the highest standard is the only show in town. but you are correct, it won't be rebuilt.

serfboard wrote: »

Now you could ask the question - what about the traffic chaos at Parkmore and in Galway itself? A good Park & Ride (possibly at the old airport) could take care of that for far less money than re-building and then subsidising the railway line.

if you are going to build some light rail maybe. if you are going to leave it to the bus, then there is no point.

monument

The long and short of it is that people here know the drill and, given that there's a genraly crackdown in place on C&T, don't be surprised if you get banned for at least a few weeks if there's any personalised bickering at all or silly thinks like naming people (within reason, TDs, Councillors and head public officials are excluded).

serfboard

end of the road wrote: »

if you are going to build some light rail maybe. if you are going to leave it to the bus, then there is no point.

You haven't expressed an opinion about it here, but there is a proposal out there for an even dafter idea than the WRC - a GLUAS (Galway Luas - geddit? :rolleyes:).

As has been said time and again here - trains are great for moving large numbers of people, buses for smaller numbers. Given the disgracefully dispersed population of Galway County (towns being far smaller than they should be, and tens of thousands living in one-off houses in the countryside, while the occupants work in Galway City), rail is simply not an option. By the time most people are in their cars on the way to a train station, they would rather stay in their car and commute to Galway.

Allied to the fact of most people in Galway County living in one-off houses, is the fact that most people do not work in the city centre. The biggest centres of employment in Galway City are Ballybrit/Parkmore/Mervue and UCHG/NUIG neither of which are in the city centre.

Therefore the scenario that exists is a lot of car-dependent people driving to work in non-city-centre locations.

The only way then to alleviate traffic in Galway is to provide a Bus Park & Ride on the outskirts of the city, and to have a frequent and affordable bus service within the city. Even the citizens of Knocknacarra (pop. 10,000) do not have a regular bus service directly to Ballybrit, which is a disgraceful situation, and which drives car dependence even within the city, which should not be happening.

The problem is that it seems that the money will never be provided for a properly-resourced bus service from the outskirts of, and within Galway city - even though we are proposing spending half a billion euro on an outer bypass.

westtip

serfboard wrote: »

You haven't expressed an opinion about it here, but there is a proposal out there for an even dafter idea than the WRC - a GLUAS (Galway Luas - geddit? :rolleyes:).

No no no .... the daftest yet has got to be Sean Canney and his merry independent men with the Donegal Luas from Letterkenny to Sligo a week or so ago....Now that one really did win the award for most lunatic idea of the century so far

eastwest

westtip wrote: »

serfboard wrote: »

You haven't expressed an opinion about it here, but there is a proposal out there for an even dafter idea than the WRC - a GLUAS (Galway Luas - geddit? :rolleyes:).

No no no .... the daftest yet has got to be Sean Canney and his merry independent men with the Donegal Luas from Letterkenny to Sligo a week or so ago....Now that one really did win the award for most lunatic idea of the century so far

Ah but sure you never know, he might get it built the next time we elect him. That crowd up in Dublin could pay for it, and it would be handy if ye got put off the road. They're very busy with the breathalyser these days.

Muckyboots

serfboard wrote: »

You haven't expressed an opinion about it here, but there is a proposal out there for an even dafter idea than the WRC - a GLUAS (Galway Luas - geddit? :rolleyes:)

The M17 Motorway extension is going to be a game changer for the West. Lots of towns and villages will have much faster and easier access to Shannon, Limerick, Athlone and Sligo. It will take up to another 30 mins off the journey time to Dublin for some south Mayo & east Galway road commuters. Galway city's large scale retailers and service providers might be in for a bit of surprise. Irish Rail & Knock Airport should be prepared. Proposing layers and layers of public transport just because it feels good is not the answer. Park & Ride or Park & Cycle - to free up town and city centre gridlock, fits in well with the Motorway Madness though.

eastwest

Muckyboots wrote: »

serfboard wrote: »

You haven't expressed an opinion about it here, but there is a proposal out there for an even dafter idea than the WRC - a GLUAS (Galway Luas - geddit? :rolleyes:)

The M17 Motorway extension is going to be a game changer for the West. Lots of towns and villages will have much faster and easier access to Shannon, Limerick, Athlone and Sligo. It will take up to another 30 mins off the journey time to Dublin for some south Mayo & east Galway road commuters. Galway city's large scale retailers and service providers might be in for a bit of surprise. Irish Rail & Knock Airport should be prepared. Proposing layers and layers of public transport just because it feels good is not the answer. Park & Ride or Park & Cycle - to free up town and city centre gridlock, fits in well with the Motorway Madness though.

The transport priority for Galway and Mayo now has to be the N17 north of Tuam. It needs to be upgraded to a four Lane road as a minimum, allowing commercial traffic to have a faster link to the motorway network. The public transport will improve dramatically on the back of that; look at what has happened everywhere else -- there is a plethora of fast, comfortable bus options now available.
Adding a parallel slow, expensive and lightly used rail service is not anything that has worked anywhere else.

westtip

Muckyboots wrote: »

The M17 Motorway extension is going to be a game changer for the West. Lots of towns and villages will have much faster and easier access to Shannon, Limerick, Athlone and Sligo. It will take up to another 30 mins off the journey time to Dublin for some south Mayo & east Galway road commuters. Galway city's large scale retailers and service providers might be in for a bit of surprise. Irish Rail & Knock Airport should be prepared. Proposing layers and layers of public transport just because it feels good is not the answer. Park & Ride or Park & Cycle - to free up town and city centre gridlock, fits in well with the Motorway Madness though.

It will also mean faster access to the North West from Shannon, and faster access to Knock Airport from Galway it will provide faster access for Dublin weekenders to the West. It is a win/win for tourists who want to get out West quickly from Dublin and not just go to Galway, it is a win/win for all in fact. Completing this road north of Tuam is the key to the success of the Atlantic Economic Corridor complemented by the tourism initiative of the Western Rail Trail on the route of the closed railway.

Oh BTW the M17 north of Tuam also means the end of the Western Rail Corridor, just in case you hadn't realised this before

TCDStudent1

westtip wrote: »

It will also mean faster access to the North West from Shannon, and faster access to Knock Airport from Galway it will provide faster access for Dublin weekenders to the West. It is a win/win for tourists who want to get out West quickly from Dublin and not just go to Galway, it is a win/win for all in fact. Completing this road north of Tuam is the key to the success of the Atlantic Economic Corridor complemented by the tourism initiative of the Western Rail Trail on the route of the closed railway.

Oh BTW the M17 north of Tuam also means the end of the Western Rail Corridor, just in case you hadn't realised this before

Why is this? Do you mean the motorway will take away some parts of the line? Or do you mean that the motorway will just mean having an active railway there would be completely pointless?

westtip

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Why is this? Do you mean the motorway will take away some parts of the line? Or do you mean that the motorway will just mean having an active railway there would be completely pointless?

No the motorway won't take away any part of the closed railway as that will be a greenway! re the active railway being completely pointless....where have you been, the railway won't happen as yes it would be pointless to build it, the reasons for which I suggest you trawl this thread. However even arguing the railway should be re-opened will be pointless once the new motorway opens which is why when it does open the M17 will mean the end of any rational debate about re-opening the railway. Comprennez?

JCX BXC

westtip wrote: »

It will also mean faster access to the North West from Shannon, and faster access to Knock Airport from Galway it will provide faster access for Dublin weekenders to the West. It is a win/win for tourists who want to get out West quickly from Dublin and not just go to Galway, it is a win/win for all in fact. Completing this road north of Tuam is the key to the success of the Atlantic Economic Corridor complemented by the tourism initiative of the Western Rail Trail on the route of the closed railway.

Oh BTW the M17 north of Tuam also means the end of the Western Rail Corridor, just in case you hadn't realised this before

It provides faster access for Galway to Shannon too though.

I can see it making knock feel the pressure. Price sensitive customers may be up to play for.