Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

Logue no2

westtip wrote: »

You are forgiven, because yes I believe you are wrong. The prime objective, if you are at all interested, of the greenway campaign is to make use of the public asset that is the closed railway. As you know, in the south London suburbs with which you are very familiar I am sure, trains work very well because in large urban areas where frequent trains fill up to capacity at rush hour, this is not the case in the West of Ireland. I am sure you know all that. For the last time, on behalf of anyone who writes in favour of the greenway can I tell you that the Greenway campaign is not against the railway, we just know it is not going to happen, for all the reasons long since covered in this thread, however protecting the route in public ownership and creating tourism related jobs is a benefit worth fighting for.

Anyway, how was the 18.37 from Victoria tonight, packed to the gunnels?

You know I could respond to your taunts in detail but I really can't be bothered.

I think you will get quite a land when the responses to the rail review are published. The Ten-T designation is likely to change with the next government and future planning and population growth over the next 30 years will show that no government will allow rail assets to be squandered Comber Greenway style over a loud anti rail campaign led by someone who googles their opponents and puts the results on boards.

I have no doubt you wouldn't want the results of a google search on your name plastered on a boards post either so please grow up and debate the facts as they are, not how you want them to be.

I'll finish with the wise words of a good friend of mine. "The train's coming back. The West's On Track!"

eastwest

Logue no2 wrote: »

I think you will get quite a land when the responses to the rail review are published. The Ten-T designation is likely to change with the next government and future planning and population growth over the next 30 years will show that no government will allow rail assets to be squandered Comber Greenway style "

The Comber issue is continually raised by WOT as a reason why Irish Rail shouldn't allow disused rail lines to be preserved by building greenways on them, but it's simply not relevant to this debate.
Comber was badly handled from the point of view of keeping it in mind for future rail use, but that is emphatically not the model used by Irish Rail or being sought by greenway campaigners here.
Irish Rail has given local authorities access to disused lines in the case of Athlone-Mullingar, Waterford-Dungarvan, Navan Kingscourt and others on the basis of permissive access, so that the railway company can take the asset back any time they like, and that is as it should be.
Greenway campaigners are not anti-rail; we are against dereliction, against the waste of assets, against the loss of state-owned assets by squatting and creeping encroachment by roads and private interests. We favour jobs, amenities for citizens and the preservation of railway assets and railway heritage. It is disingenuous to describe us as anti-rail, and disingenuous to quote a completely irrelevant scenario such as exists in Comber in the context of this debate. This blinkered and untruthful campaigning by WOT is just helping to block tourism and amenity development, it isn't and won't bring their dream of slow, empty trains any closer.
As for the outcome of the rail review, it will say the same as every other review, that there is no business case for extending the railway north of Athenry. The subvention to Irish rail is very bad value for money in terms of the number of passengers moved, and the only way that IR can continue to run Ennis Athenry and the other two heavy loss-making lines is by paring back services on viable lines. People in Galway, Mayo and Sligo know that they want, a decent N17 that gives them access to the motorway network.

westtip

Logue no2 wrote: »

The Ten-T designation is likely to change with the next government

Ah yes, The new promised land. TEN-T designation is not at the whim of our government to change, it was agreed by the European Parliament, endorsed by 27 national governments. The changing TEN-T promise might be the next way of promising the railway is coming, all we have to do is persuade 27 EU governments to get on track and on side!

As for the Rail Review, I doubt very much it will divert from the views of Senior management at Irish Rail, the views of the Minister of Public Expenditure, or the views of Senior Civil Servants in the DTTAS that any talk of railway lines being extended north of Athenry is purely and utterly the realms of fantasy land.

Muckyboots

Logue no2 wrote: »

I'll finish with the wise words of a good friend of mine. "The train's coming back. The West's On Track!"

As in...
Digs Coal- #MAGA ! - Donald J Trump

eastwest

westtip wrote: »

Logue no2 wrote: »

The Ten-T designation is likely to change with the next government

Ah yes, The new promised land. TEN-T designation is not at the whim of our government to change, it was agreed by the European Parliament, endorsed by 27 national governments. The changing TEN-T promise might be the next way of promising the railway is coming, all we have to do is persuade 27 EU governments to get on track and on side!

As for the Rail Review, I doubt very much it will divert from the views of Senior management at Irish Rail, the views of the Minister of Public Expenditure, or the views of Senior Civil Servants in the DTTAS that any talk of railway lines being extended north of Athenry is purely and utterly the realms of fantasy land.

There is a possibility that Ten-T will be extended to this route, but definitely not for rail. The only game in town is the N17, and if the handful of rail obsessors hadn't been involved in such high level lobbying for a railway that is never coming, the region might well have got the road infrastructure it needed by now.
This whole sorry saga will be viewed on hindsight as a complete debacle filled with missed opportunities, with the distraction of the rail lobby getting in the way of real progress.

eastwest

Logue no2 wrote: »

.

"The train's coming back. The West's On Track!"

Try this quote from Downtown Express instead; it's closer to the truth...

People at the station / Checkin’ the time / Been waitin’ so long
To hear that whistle whine / There’s a shine on the rails
And a clickety-clack / But there ain’t no train / Comin’ down the track

serfboard

eastwest wrote: »

There is a possibility that Ten-T will be extended to this route, but definitely not for rail. The only game in town is the N17, and if the handful of rail obsessors hadn't been involved in such high level lobbying for a railway that is never coming, the region might well have got the road infrastructure it needed by now.

I don't think that the railway lobbying prevented roads being built. However, the over 100 Million spent on Ennis->Athenry could have been better spent elsewhere on the rail system, such as double-tracking Portarlington->Athlone and/or Maynooth->Longford.

eastwest

serfboard wrote: »

I don't think that the railway lobbying prevented roads being built. However, the over 100 Million spent on Ennis->Athenry could have been better spent elsewhere on the rail system, such as double-tracking Portarlington->Athlone and/or Maynooth->Longford.

It's been a distraction, an gave an impression that all the communities in Galway-Mayo wanted was a railway, when in fact political efforts should have been behind an upgrade of the N17.

monument

Logue no2 wrote: »

You know I could respond to your taunts in detail but I really can't be bothered.

I think you will get quite a land when the responses to the rail review are published. The Ten-T designation is likely to change with the next government and future planning and population growth over the next 30 years will show that no government will allow rail assets to be squandered Comber Greenway style over a loud anti rail campaign led by someone who googles their opponents and puts the results on boards.

I have no doubt you wouldn't want the results of a google search on your name plastered on a boards post either so please grow up and debate the facts as they are, not how you want them to be.

I'll finish with the wise words of a good friend of mine. "The train's coming back. The West's On Track!"

He was reported and then got a warning but you still had to engage.

-- moderator

westtip

eastwest wrote: »

There is a possibility that Ten-T will be extended to this route, but definitely not for rail. The only game in town is the N17, and if the handful of rail obsessors hadn't been involved in such high level lobbying for a railway that is never coming, the region might well have got the road infrastructure it needed by now.
This whole sorry saga will be viewed on hindsight as a complete debacle filled with missed opportunities, with the distraction of the rail lobby getting in the way of real progress.

East West no worries on that - the N17 is actually included in TEN-T, which is why the N17 dual carriageway from the interchange with the M4 near Athenry running north of Tuam will be opened, I think in June of this year. All the cllrs and TDs in the west received the attached PDF about how TEN-T means the end of the Western Rail Corridor but was good news because the N17, N4 and N5 plus other key routes in the west are included. They got this information on their desks in December 2013 over three years ago! We are in the queue for funding for these projects, which by the way will not be 100% funding but part funding by EU and remainder funding from internal (ie taxpayer) funding.

At the time a former MEP tried to claim TEN-T gave nothing to the west of Ireland, this is simply not true. Other TDs in the west have also tried to do this, all focusing on the Western Rail Corridor as if it will be some kind of saviour of the west. The west will actually do quite well if it gets the funding for the road projects listed in TEN-T. Pleased read the attached PDF to find out what the west can hope to achieve in transport infrastructure from EU funding over the next decade, it really is not as bad as some would make us think, but like the rest of Europe we are in a queue. The critical thing is to get the real TEN-T projects to the top of the national priority list we need politicians representing us who will drop the distraction of the Western Rail Corridor, this is what is so discouraging, to have some of our politicians wasting energy lobbying in Leinster House for projects that simply will not happen. The only projects that will happen are those listed in TEN-T, take that list to the DTTAS and say this project is in TEN-T we can get part European Funding for it, Roscommom needs it or Galway needs it or Mayo or Sligo or Donegal etc needs it. TEN-T projects are the only show in town.
This is what West on Track don't want everyone to know, TEN-T is now the Transport infrastructure policy for Europe until 2030, End of, not going to change, period, get used to it. Anyone who wants to know what our politicians have known for over three years read the attached, then ask them why they still have their heads in the sand......or bog and are barking up the wrong tree.

Muckyboots

Logue no2 wrote: »

Fantastic news coming from Cllr Shaun Cunniffe in Tuam that an alternative route for a Tuam Athenry Greenway is emerging that uses a dffierent route from the railway line. I am somewhat surprised that the Greenway campaigners on this thread are silent about it so far, however this is now a cast iron opportunity for the Tuam and Sligo Mayo Greenway campaigns to step up to the plate and prove for once and for all that they are not all about stopping or delaying the railway.

So, the Tuam Herald reports today that landowners on the "alternative route" knew nothing about its proposal. The IFA have no authority to negotiate on their behalf and they will not be giving any consideration to people accessing their lands for this reason.
The landowners like the idea of a Greenway ( a nice amenity for their families to enjoy, perhaps ?) and propose that the Council should get on with it -and use the infrastructure that exists to deliver it. One can only presume that they mean the derelict railway alignment. They must be as sick as everyone else watching entropy at work . Now back to real facts.

eastwest

end of the road wrote: »

serfboard wrote: »

The M17 will be finished by the end of the year. For Tuam and points south, Burkes Bus and private cars will be the publics preferred option even if the railway was re-built.

Which it won't be.

if they want to be stuck in traffic. if they want high quality fast and reliable public transport, then a rebuilt railway to the highest standard is the only show in town. but you are correct, it won't be rebuilt.

serfboard wrote: »

Now you could ask the question - what about the traffic chaos at Parkmore and in Galway itself? A good Park & Ride (possibly at the old airport) could take care of that for far less money than re-building and then subsidising the railway line.

if you are going to build some light rail maybe. if you are going to leave it to the bus, then there is no point.

A bus on a dedicated bus lane, particularly a high capacity 'bendy bus' has the same impact as a light rail system, at a fraction of the cost. The buses do need to be fitted with transponders to control traffic lights, but otherwise they provide an excellent alternative to light rail.

eastwest

Logue no2 wrote: »

Fantastic news coming from Cllr Shaun Cunniffe in Tuam that an alternative route for a Tuam Athenry Greenway is emerging that uses a dffierent route from the railway line. I am somewhat surprised that the Greenway campaigners on this thread are silent about it so far, however this is now a cast iron opportunity for the Tuam and Sligo Mayo Greenway campaigns to step up to the plate and prove for once and for all that they are not all about stopping or delaying the railway.

So, according to today's Tuam Herald, this piece of news from cllr Connelly was nothing more than a spoof. His story that he had been shown an alternative greenway route that had been approved by the IFA wasn't true at all, and has been rubbished by the IFA.
What was he thinking?

Isambard

is it just me or does the advent of the Velorail block the use of the route by trains whilst at the same time , due to it's small size, not preclude a parallel Greenway? It's a bit of an own goal is it not?

Muckyboots

Isambard wrote: »

is it just me or does the advent of the Velorail block the use of the route by trains whilst at the same time , due to it's small size, not preclude a parallel Greenway? It's a bit of an own goal is it not?

Not only does it not preclude a parallel Greenway but you would imagine that when it goes to planning that, "for reasons of safety", a parallel access path would be conditional to its approval and people will start walking and cycling on it for sure.

eastwest

Isambard wrote: »

is it just me or does the advent of the Velorail block the use of the route by trains whilst at the same time , due to it's small size, not preclude a parallel Greenway? It's a bit of an own goal is it not?

It does more than block the train, it would seem to give a private company a lease over a piece of the alignment, creating exactly what WOT finds so unacceptable in Comber -- a more or less immovable blockage to future rail development.
The ironic thing is that a greenway would be a different animal, easily divertable if a railway needed to be built.
So why was wot so anxious to see the velorail project started? Surely they could see that it wasn't as attractive from a rail standpoint as a greenway?
One way of explaining this contradictory stance might be that they don't see the velorail project succeeding once the funding runs out, and they see this as a way to have rails reinstated by somebody.
The other possibility is that they have abandoned their aspirations on everything north of Claremorris, and would prefer to see a short piece of the asset lost to allowing the greenway on the line in mayo, possibly creating a domino effect all the way to athenry as communities start to scream for parity.
Then again, they may have a plan B, or C; it can be difficult to figure out what they want. We know what they don't want-- tourists, safe cycling and walking for families, and preservation of the route and the railway heritage.

westtip

Muckyboots wrote: »

Not only does it not preclude a parallel Greenway but you would imagine that when it goes to planning that, "for reasons of safety", a parallel access path would be conditional to its approval and people will start walking and cycling on it for sure.

we will have to wait and see what the planning application says about the parallel access path, I am sure they must have thought of this, otherwise ABP will have to make them add it in.

eastwest

westtip wrote: »

Muckyboots wrote: »

Not only does it not preclude a parallel Greenway but you would imagine that when it goes to planning that, "for reasons of safety", a parallel access path would be conditional to its approval and people will start walking and cycling on it for sure.

we will have to wait and see what the planning application says about the parallel access path, I am sure they must have thought of this, otherwise ABP will have to make them add it in.

If work has started, where's the planning application?
You can't start work on a project that requires planning until you get permission.

serfboard

Logue no2 wrote: »

Fantastic news coming from Cllr Shaun Cunniffe in Tuam that an alternative route for a Tuam Athenry Greenway is emerging that uses a dffierent route from the railway line.

eastwest wrote: »

As far as I am aware, and I'm open to correction, this news didn't come from Shaun Cunniffe but from another Councillor. It seems a bit vague at the moment but if it is genuine it is of course great news and would create a start for a greenway from Athenry to Collooney. ... So, if it's true, it's great, but I'd like to see the actual proposal.

eastwest wrote: »

So, according to today's Tuam Herald, this piece of news from cllr Connelly was nothing more than a spoof. His story that he had been shown an alternative greenway route that had been approved by the IFA wasn't true at all, and has been rubbished by the IFA.

From The Tuam Herald:

The Tuam Herald wrote:

FARMERS in the Corofin and Ballyglunin area have angrily rejected suggestions that the IFA has agreed an alternative route for a Greenway linking Tuam and Athenry.
Belclare Cllr Billy Connelly made the claim during a debate at Galway Co Council last week.

Cllr Connelly said the IFA had agreed to an alternative route to that being proposed by the Tuam Greenway group, which is seeking to develop a cycle and walking path along the old railway linking the two towns.
However, Stephen Canavan, the IFA’s county officer for Corofin, who lives in Ballyglunin, said there was no knowledge of any meeting or agreement in relation to the matter.

I was wondering who this Billy Connelly was and I see that he was co-opted to replace Sean Canney last March. So he's basically Canney's mouthpiece on the council and just as vehemently opposed to the route being used for anything except never-happening trains.

Well done to the Tuam Herald for catching him out.

westtip

serfboard wrote: »

From The Tuam Herald:

I was wondering who this Billy Connelly was and I see that he was co-opted to replace Sean Canney last March. So he's basically Canney's mouthpiece on the council and just as vehemently opposed to the route being used for anything except never-happening trains.

Well done to the Tuam Herald for catching him out.

He has been taken in hook line and sinker by his buddy Sean Canney, will Canney now answer for this misleading information he gave to his co-opted councillor?

westtip

More grist to the mill from the greenway campaign, I believe this petition is flying since it was launched this morning.

https://www.change.org/p/western-rail-trail-campaign-create-a-walking-and-cycling-greenway-on-the-closed-railway-from-sligo-to-athenry

Del.Monte

westtip - came across these on eBay tonight and thought of you. Do you want a link to the seller?

A Limerick bound freight on the Burma Road in 1975 - enjoy.



Tubbercurry



Swineford



Kiltimagh - soon to be the site of the Velo Rail project!

And lastly southward out of Claremorris and along the route of the soon to be reopened line to Athenry.



Living in that house at the LC must have been a trainspotter's wet dream!

westtip

Del.Monte wrote: »

westtip - came across these on eBay tonight and thought of you. Do you want a link to the seller?

A Limerick bound freight on the Burma Road in 1975 - enjoy.



Tubbercurry



Swineford



Kiltimagh - soon to be the site of the Velo Rail project!

And lastly southward out of Claremorris and along the route of the soon to be reopened line to Athenry.



Living in that house at the LC must have been a trainspotter's wet dream!

Try David McGowan in the Enniscrone! He has an airplane they could park next too.

eastwest

Del.Monte wrote: »

And lastly southward out of Claremorris and along the route of the soon to be reopened line to Athenry.

'Soon' as in geological time?

JCX BXC

Will the Crusheen station ever realistically be reopened?

eastwest

JCX BXC wrote: »

Will the Crusheen station ever realistically be reopened?

It might well, if it suits some local politician, but never as a manned stop.

Del.Monte

What about Ardsollus & Quinn?

eastwest

Del.Monte wrote: »

What about Ardsollus & Quinn?

Sounds like a firm of old-worlde lawyers.

Muckyboots

Del.Monte wrote: »

What about Ardsollus & Quinn?

Wouldn't mind cycling through there - looks lovely.

westtip

Muckyboots wrote: »

Wouldn't mind cycling through there - looks lovely.

And stopping for tea scones and clotted cream served by someone running their own business having come off a government scheme for the unemployed.