Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

marno21

JCX BXC wrote: »

I would agree fully, no scope for any railway after Athenry. However, for both sides, I don't think you can use the figures for Ennis-Athenry as any indication of demand for a railway to Tuam or further on.

Ennis to Athenry figures are not too bad, and a big plus is the train is cheaper than the bus currently. They're not brilliant however, but much better than lines like LJ-WAT (which Imo could be improved with ease) and Limerick to Ballybrophy (needs to die).

Ennis-Athenry is cheaper by rail vs bus because it gets a massive operating subsidy and is made cheaper on purpose to encourage use rather than shuttling empty trains up and down the line.

Given the enormous operating subsidy it makes sense to lower fares as the fare income won't cover costs anyway.

JCX BXC wrote: »

That's exactly what I'm implying, several people got out in Athenry.

Why would they? Surely stops on a line don't prove how well a line is doing?

Personally I don't think so, the M18 will just be bringing you further outside Galway to near Athenry and onto the M6, the potential congestion on the way into galway could well negate any time savings during peak times.

Speed improvements could be well worth it along the line, at some stages the train slows to 50km/h, which to me seems rather strange, shouldn't the issues have been sorted out before they rebuilt the line?

Stopping in extra places for no one to get on is just increasing journey times further discouraging use.

The M18 will improve bus journey times because the bus can travel at a constant 100km/h from Gort to Galway as opposed to the current slow rate with all the villages (and level crossings).

The low speed restrictions are due to poor alignment and level crossings along the route, which would have been cost prohibitive to remove during construction. The alignment is much worse from Tuam-Collooney so that show you how bad that would be if built.

end of the road

a 100kmph bus (a ridiculous speed for a bus to be traveling IMO) is all well and good until the inevitable long stop for traffic on the way in to either city.

eastwest

Furthermore, from this December, the X51 bus will be going along the full M18, reducing the Inter-City time to (I'm guessing about) an hour and ten minutes - while the train will still be trundling around the countryside taking two hours.

Personally I don't think so, the M18 will just be bringing you further outside Galway to near Athenry and onto the M6, the potential congestion on the way into galway could well negate any time savings during peak times.
[/quote]
There is a lot of work planned or being done on bus corridors into Galway which will ensure that this isn't an issue.

eastwest

Muckyboots wrote: »

Sloopys wrote: »

It's like watching the first dreaded back to school ads on the telly isn't it. We had three weeks break from all of this codology so I guess we are now back to business as usual here. But before I go back to lurking I will say this; Canney is going to top the poll - again.

You are probably right. He's a smooth operator and there won't be an envelope opened in Tuam in the next 12 months with out his presence . He has lost the "young family" town vote.

He'll be very wary of attending any envelope-openings in Tuam, unless before a captive audience, given the depth of feeling about his blocking of the greenway.

westtip

marno21 wrote: »

He can retire to spend more time watching construction begin on Bank of America's new Milltown campus after their post Brexit decision to relocate to the bustling Galway metropolis in anticipation of construction of Phase II of the Western Rail Corridor.

Meanwhile workers for Bank of America in Dublin have no way of getting to work and nowhere to live. But it's ok cos Galway has its trains.

Marno yes I appreciate your humour, but in what you say there is some truth and how the housing crisis in Dublin could be addressed through a proper radial highspeed train service into and out of Dublin. I worked in London for several years, its where the jobs are, where the critical mass of skilled mindset is, and like it or not, large cities are the driver of economies. Ireland, like it or not has to have a Dublin Centric economic view, that doesn't mean the rest of the country will fall to its knees economically, but in this long standing debate we have all had about greenways and trains trundling at low speed from Claremorris to Tuam what we have lost sight of (or least what the WOT lobby lost sight of years ago) is the need to focus our train service on high speed shifting of lots of bodies into and out of Dublin.....When I worked in London I lived in Basingstoke, 60 miles from my job. On a good day and hey South West Trains are not the best, I could make it to work in just over an hour.

People commute into London on a lot longer journies. The focus of the Railway lobby should be high speed services into and out of Dublin. And I mean high speed and a good service up to midnight. Of course it will require subvention of course many trains will be running at low capacity. But if you could get on a train in Galway and be in Dublin an hour and quarter later would you commute? This is the real benefits trains can bring to a society, not re-opening branch lines that fit a C19th century requirement.

Anyway just felt like writing an essay this morning.:pac:

thomond2006

The bus from Limerick to Galway is currently 30 minutes faster than the train. What will this increase to once the motorway is opened?

Unless a Cork-Limerick-Galway service is built with similar speeds to Cork-Dublin then rail has no future from Limerick to Galway.

eastwest

westtip wrote: »

marno21 wrote: »

He can retire to spend more time watching construction begin on Bank of America's new Milltown campus after their post Brexit decision to relocate to the bustling Galway metropolis in anticipation of construction of Phase II of the Western Rail Corridor.

Meanwhile workers for Bank of America in Dublin have no way of getting to work and nowhere to live. But it's ok cos Galway has its trains.

Marno yes I appreciate your humour, but in what you say there is some truth and how the housing crisis in Dublin could be addressed through a proper radial highspeed train service into and out of Dublin. I worked in London for several years, its where the jobs are, where the critical mass of skilled mindset is, and like it or not, large cities are the driver of economies. Ireland, like it or not has to have a Dublin Centric economic view, that doesn't mean the rest of the country will fall to its knees economically, but in this long standing debate we have all had about greenways and trains trundling at low speed from Claremorris to Tuam what we have lost sight of (or least what the WOT lobby lost sight of years ago) is the need to focus our train service on high speed shifting of lots of bodies into and out of Dublin.....When I worked in London I lived in Basingstoke, 60 miles from my job. On a good day and hey South West Trains are not the best, I could make it to work in just over an hour.

People commute into London on a lot longer journies. The focus of the Railway lobby should be high speed services into and out of Dublin. And I mean high speed and a good service up to midnight. Of course it will require subvention of course many trains will be running at low capacity. But if you could get on a train in Galway and be in Dublin an hour and quarter later would you commute? This is the real benefits trains can bring to a society, not re-opening branch lines that fit a C19th century requirement.

Anyway just felt like writing an essay this morning.:pac:

You don't get it, do you? They have the LUAS up in Dublin, so we're entitled to the same. It's not about whether we need it or not, or whether it makes sense. And to make it worse, they're proposing to take our railway and replace it with a cycle path for Dublin 4 types. We must fight them to the death (of all our small towns ).
You'd never make a politician.

JCX BXC

Train fairly full at the moment leaving galway, few free seats.

JCX BXC

What sort of business case was there for Ardrahan? On the 13:45 service today there were a few people getting off at every station except Ardrahan, which nobody got on or off at and there wasn't a car to be seen in the carpark whatsoever.

Pity they spent money on it really, could cut a few minutes off the service with no real loss of passengers.

Muckyboots

JCX BXC wrote: »

What sort of business case was there for Ardrahan?

Business case? You're having a laugh, yes?

L1011

JCX BXC wrote: »

What sort of business case was there for Ardrahan?

There was no business case for the entire line. A few extra Athenry-Galway and Ennis-Limerick services would have had the same increase in passenger numbers.

JCX BXC

I won't disagree on the reasons how the line came about, however, that wasn't my question. Why is Ardrahan still a station if it's use is so low? Surely it is worsening an already struggling line?

L1011

JCX BXC wrote: »

I won't disagree on the reasons how the line came about, however, that wasn't my question. Why is Ardrahan still a station if it's use is so low? Surely it is worsening an already struggling line?

The last non-excursion station to close without direct replacement on an open railway line here must be the mid 1970s - Mosney, Curragh and Ashtown's brief 1979 opening were excursion stations. Its just Not Done even when it makes sense.

JCX BXC

L1011 wrote: »

The last non-excursion station to close without direct replacement on an open railway line here must be the mid 1970s - Mosney, Curragh and Ashtown's brief 1979 opening were excursion stations. Its just Not Done even when it makes sense.

A few stations on the Waterford-Rosslare line closed in 2010 when the service was withdrawn.

I get your point though, surely it should never been opened in the first place? Even the never opened but planned Crusheen station would have probably performed better.

L1011

JCX BXC wrote: »

A few stations on the Waterford-Rosslare line closed in 2010 when they closed.

The entire line closed.

JCX BXC

L1011 wrote: »

The entire line closed.

Meant to input when the line closed. However it doesn't take from your explanation either way.

eastwest

L1011 wrote: »

There was no business case for the entire line. A few extra Athenry-Galway and Ennis-Limerick services would have had the same increase in passenger numbers.

Back in those days when the boom could only get boomier, you didn't need a business case, you just needed a minister to throw a pile of money at somebody's pet project.
Therein lies the problem. A handful of politicians, despite knowing that there is no case for extending the line and despite knowing that there is no money for it, still believe that the old days will come back and that someone will chuck a pile of taxpayer funds at their little hobby horse.
It's not going to happen if course, but this small club is in complete denial of the facts.

Sloopys

eastwest wrote: »

Canney has zero chance of getting elected to the Dail. His best chance would actually have been to save some face in Tuam by backing the greenway, but Tuam will give him a roasting at the polls.

Canney topped the poll. So much for your political analysis and forecasts!

eastwest

Sloopys wrote: »

Canney topped the poll. So much for your political analysis and forecasts!

Tuam has a history of giving chancers the heave after one term.
The growing realisation in Tuam and Athenry that he is the one stopping the greenway will come back to bite him.
There's getting a seat, and there's keeping a seat. The former is often the easier job.

end of the road

eastwest wrote: »

Tuam has a history of giving chancers the heave after one term.
The growing realisation in Tuam and Athenry that he is the one stopping the greenway will come back to bite him.
There's getting a seat, and there's keeping a seat. The former is often the easier job.

ah but he isn't stopping the greenway. the reality is there are more important things for government to be spending money on and i suspect most people have other issues they have a greater interest in solving first. in reality i suspect only a minority like the railway care about the greenway. we will see at election time what happens.

eastwest

end of the road wrote: »

ah but he isn't stopping the greenway. .

He's not stopping the imaginary greenway, the one that avoids towns and goes through lands where the owners won't allow it. The one he dreamed up to stop the actual greenway.
Yer right there!

end of the road

eastwest wrote: »

The owners of the route support the greenway option

the owners who (funnily enough) don't have a great track record when it comes to running railways. of course they support the greenway option, it's nothing to do with them supposibly believing it might be a good asset to the area (which it may or may not be)

eastwest wrote: »

These 'rail to trail' projects are successful everywhere (see 'Diese greenway' for example in this country)

a couple of them here are successful yes. however we need to take some time before judging over all success. we do not want to end up like the uk where we have a number of greenways which are used by only 1 man and his dog but which the owners/operators will fight tooth and knail to prevent it from being reused for transport again dispite it's reuse for transport being beneficial to a lot more people.

eastwest wrote: »

the people want the greenway and are increasingly getting mad at the small cabal who are stopping it.

some of the people want the greenway and may be mad at those who they claim are stopping it, but who actually aren't.

Sloopys

eastwest wrote: »

Not really.
The route exists.
The owners of the route support the greenway option
There is funding available
These 'rail to trail' projects are successful everywhere (see 'Diese greenway' for example in this country)
There is no funding stream that can be accessed for a railway, except good old 'general taxation'
There is no business case for a railway
The first phase of the wrc hasn't delivered as promised
There is insufficient demand and population on the section north of Athenry
The European union won't part-fund a railway on the route
The greenway won't prevent a railway being built if any of the above changes.
And finally, the people want the greenway and are increasingly getting mad at the small cabal who are stopping it.
But you know all that.

You suggest I know all you have just posted, I don't, I'm just an interested bystander. Having said that as a mere observer I would suggest that the constant whinging and whining about the railway and its supporters won't win you the railway line. Also the passenger numbers on the Galway Limerick line are far in excess of what you and your comrades regularly claim on this board.

L1011

Sloopys wrote: »

Also the passenger numbers on the Galway Limerick line are far in excess of what you and your comrades regularly claim on this board.

Are you, by any chance, using the passenger numbers quoted by Irish Rail?

The ones that include passengers on the existing Galway-Athenry and Ennis-Limerick sections?


They're irrelevant to the reopened section.

Quackster

end of the road wrote: »

a couple of them here are successful yes. however we need to take some time before judging over all success. we do not want to end up like the uk where we have a number of greenways which are used by only 1 man and his dog but which the owners/operators will fight tooth and knail to prevent it from being reused for transport again dispite it's reuse for transport being beneficial to a lot more people.

Given we lack the enlightened network of off-road public paths that criss-cross the entirety of England & Wales and which somewhat limit the need for greenways there, at least for able-bodied walkers, I don't think there's much fear of greenways in this country being under-utilised.

serfboard

end of the road wrote: »

we do not want to end up like the uk where we have a number of greenways which are used by only 1 man and his dog but which the owners/operators will fight tooth and knail to prevent it from being reused for transport again dispite it's reuse for transport being beneficial to a lot more people.

I'd agree with that. In Ireland however we have far lower population density, and absolutely no planning at all with houses scattered higgeldy-piggeldy around the countryside, thus providing no critical mass in towns which would strengthen the argument for railway use.

The situation here in fact is exactly the opposite to the case you cite - we have a crowd of trainspotters who are fighting tooth and nail to prevent an idle railway line being reused as a Greenway.

devnull

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westtip

October 6th!

The day this thread can apparently really close.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104513592&postcount=6845

JCX BXC

westtip wrote: »

October 6th!

The day this thread can apparently really close.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104513592&postcount=6845

Well it's not like it'll ever become a railway with or without the motorway.

Discussion will continue about the possible Greenway though?