Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

bk

- Moderator

Their seems to be a little bit of confusion about my previous mod instruction about calling out private peoples names, so I'd like to clarify it.

Private people are just that, they are entitled to their privacy.

Politicians are however a different matter. They choose to be public representatives and are as such in the public spotlight. In fact it is an important part of a healthy democracy for people to be able to discuss politicians policies and positions on certain subjects IMO.

Having said that, I would ask people to do so in a respectful manner. Don't get me wrong, you can absolutely say that you disagree with a particular politician or their policy or that it might or might not hurt their election chances, but try and do so constructively.

Thanks

- Moderator

Carawaystick

Minister for state is in favour of a greenway
https://twitter.com/ciarancannon/status/909139442102923264

eastwest

It's over a year now since Sean Canney agreed to support the government in return for having a report done on the future of the wrc within six months.
That six months has come and gone, as has eight more, but the promised report hasn't materialised. Does that mean that Sean Canney will now withdraw his support for government, or was he just blowing a load of hot air?
I know it will all be immaterial when the rail review recommends the closure of ennis athenry and a block on any further capital projects, but still, isn't the lack of the wrc report a bit of an insult to the man?
After all, it would be easy to cobble together a report out of the rail report, just cut and paste a few pages, just to save the poor chap's blushes.

westtip

eastwest wrote: »

It's over a year now since Sean Canney agreed to support the government in return for having a report done on the future of the wrc within six months.

I thought he just got together with West on Track, a PR company in Galway; Cicero Communications, and the Minister for Westport, with a bundle of crayons and some dodgy figures and drew up a quasi official report saying sure wouldn't it be great to have this railway thingie opened up again da wesht. We could then invent an economic corridor that does not exist in anyones minds except our own, sure wouldn't that be great Ted?

eastwest

westtip wrote: »

I thought he just got together with West on Track, a PR company in Galway; Cicero Communications, and the Minister for Westport, with a bundle of crayons and some dodgy figures and drew up a quasi official report saying sure wouldn't it be great to have this railway thingie opened up again da wesht. We could then invent an economic corridor that does not exist in anyones minds except our own, sure wouldn't that be great Ted?

I'm just surprised that he hasn't been making a bit of noise about what was described at the time as 'a red line issue'.
I can't think of any other programme for government deal that has been so utterly ignored; there hasn't been a peep about it.
It is possible that the farcical report you refer to was trotted out as a smokescreen to cover the fact that a government report wasn't forthcoming, but the reality is that a commitment in the Programme for Government wasn't delivered on, and he hasn't raised it as an issue.
Could it be that the report was done, but that it demolished the argument for rail and had to be buried?
I think we should be told.

Muckyboots

I've learned quite a few things following this discussion, both here and other unsocial medias, but one thing that genuinely surprised me was the self-serving and vitriolic anti-greenway stance taken by many in the trainspotting community. I can understand taking a political stance about balanced regional development and hoping against hope that somehow the EU might gift us with a few billion to build a deep port and western business corridor, be it road or rail, to "stop the country from tipping into the Irish Sea". There is a sizable fraternity of anoraks who couldn't give a great continental about West of Ireland towns, villages and communities and would prefer to see disused trackbed and railway heritage simply rot into the ground rather than have it utilised and secured by anyone but themselves. The disused rail network is not, or should never be regarded as a personal playground. Rail nostalgia has little economic value unless it's opened up to everyone, including schools, walkers, cyclists and tourists. It's my ball and I'm going home? Don't worry, someone just found another game to play.

westtip

Next week could be the triple whammy

devnull

All - Some posts biting at each other have been deleted.

You've already been warned to stop the biting at each other, if you carry on doing it sanctions will come out and since some of you are very close to a ban I'd think twice if I were you.

Do not reply to this message.

Moderator

marno21

Not sure if linked here:

Discussion on the new M17/M18 motorway firstly, and discussion by Sean Canney on opening Athenry-Claremorris as a freight corridor for connection to Foynes port and Sean Canney's talk of a greenway on the line:

http://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=b9%5F21228191%5F83%5F01%2D09%2D2017%5F

marno21

marno21 wrote: »

Not sure if linked here:

Discussion on the new M17/M18 motorway firstly, and discussion by Sean Canney on opening Athenry-Claremorris as a freight corridor for connection to Foynes port and Sean Canney's talk of a greenway on the line:

http://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=b9%5F21228191%5F83%5F01%2D09%2D2017%5F

Got a link to the show it was on? Or other details with which to listen to it. Flash doesn't work on the phone

marno21

Deleted User wrote: »

Got a link to the show it was on? Or other details with which to listen to it. Flash doesn't work on the phone

Drivetime RTE Radio 1, Friday 1st September around 5:20pm.

Cheers

Link

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/drivetime/programmes/2017/0901/901632-drivetime-friday-1-september-2017/

eastwest

Two things were clear from thar radio piece. Firstly, Minister Ciaran Cannon was the voice of reason when he said that anybody talking about extending the railway north of Athenry isn't living in the real world -- something that most people understand already. But the second point is interesting; Sean Canney has fudged the issue of the report on the wrc that was his red line issue for supporting the government by sliding it into the national rail review.
That's fair enough; it's a face saver for him and a handy get-out clause. The farcical West on track report fooled nobody, and his attempts to associate himself with it and to spin it as a legitimate report on the wrc fell very flat. If he is now saying that the national rail review is what he was looking for all along, then that also must be taken as confirmation that he will accept its findings.
In this interview he said that we have to wait until the review comes out, which to most observers will be taken as an acceptance of the process.
So, given all that, is it therefore now likely that he will step back from his opposition to the greenway once the rail review rubbishes any further extension of the wrc? And what will his position be on the likely finding that the ennis athenry line should be axed?

JCX BXC

Last rail review the subsidy had fallen to €44 per passenger (IIRC), could it have fallen more by the next one? If so, will it still be considered for closure? Or do they always recommend the 3 poorest performing to be gone? The line isn't awfully performing, not the best but it's not a massive outlier. The 2 real outliers are the LJ-Warerford and Limerick-Ballybrophy.

eastwest

JCX BXC wrote: »

Last rail review the subsidy had fallen to €44 per passenger (IIRC), could it have fallen more by the next one? If so, will it still be considered for closure? Or do they always recommend the 3 poorest performing to be gone? The line isn't awfully performing, not the best but it's not a massive outlier. The 2 real outliers are the LJ-Warerford and Limerick-Ballybrophy.

€44 per passenger journey is still horrendous, but the motorway is likely to worsen the situation as new bus operators get involved.
The report is rumoured to recommend the closure of up to four lines, but Varadkar has previously said that all attempts will be made to keep ennis athenry open simply because so much money has been spent on opening it so recently.
It will be interesting to see the response of Sean Canney to the report, for lots of reasons. He has very much painted himself into a corner on the whole issue, something that smarter operators like Rabbite and Cannon have skilfully avoided.

marno21

Ennis-Athenry will stay open for the forseeable future - simply because spending over €100m on a rail line to keep it open for seven years would look terrible.

Canney when asked about a new 21st century motorway says it's all well and good but we need a rail line to Claremorris to operate a freight hub out of Foynes instead of sending it via the east coast.

The only thing of benefit to the west in the immediate future is the [N6 Galway City Ring Road, which will solve a lot of the traffic jams around Galway. This will have 1000x the economic benefits of the railway.

If he wants to go around telling voters he will open a freight railway to Claremorris for €100m and this will bring thousands of jobs to the west then off with him.

westtip

marno21 wrote: »

Ennis-Athenry will stay open for the forseeable future - simply because spending over €100m on a rail line to keep it open for seven years would look terrible.

Canney when asked about a new 21st century motorway says it's all well and good but we need a rail line to Claremorris to operate a freight hub out of Foynes instead of sending it via the east coast.

The only thing of benefit to the west in the immediate future is the [N6 Galway City Ring Road, which will solve a lot of the traffic jams around Galway. This will have 1000x the economic benefits of the railway.

If he wants to go around telling voters he will open a freight railway to Claremorris for €100m and this will bring thousands of jobs to the west then off with him.

The voters need to be reminded of the contempt he is showing his constituents who clearly support the greenway, his views are yesterdays news, it looks like Anne Rabbite and Ciaran Cannon will be the two shoe ins in this constituency, (Galway East), I think it is still a 3 seater next time around, the opportunity exists to remove this dinosaur.

eastwest

westtip wrote: »

The voters need to be reminded of the contempt he is showing his constituents who clearly support the greenway, his views are yesterdays news, it looks like Anne Rabbite and Ciaran Cannon will be the two shoe ins in this constituency, (Galway East), I think it is still a 3 seater next time around, the opportunity exists to remove this dinosaur.

He's doing a very good job on removing himself.

eastwest

marno21 wrote: »

Ennis-Athenry will stay open for the forseeable future - simply because spending over €100m on a rail line to keep it open for seven years would look terrible.

Canney when asked about a new 21st century motorway says it's all well and good but we need a rail line to Claremorris to operate a freight hub out of Foynes instead of sending it via the east coast.

The only thing of benefit to the west in the immediate future is the [N6 Galway City Ring Road, which will solve a lot of the traffic jams around Galway. This will have 1000x the economic benefits of the railway.

If he wants to go around telling voters he will open a freight railway to Claremorris for €100m and this will bring thousands of jobs to the west then off with him.

Nobody passes a lot of heed of this nonsense any more.
Indeed I suspect Canney doesn't believe it either.

mayo.mick

https://www.facebook.com/annerabbitteportumna/photos/a.1463243497237463.1073741828.1426461550915658/2052777144950759/?type=3&theater

westtip

Mr Canney has actually got it wrong, the soon to be published NTA report on rail is not a rail review, that has already been done it was called the rail review report and was published by the NTA in August 2016, so Mr Canney if you read this thread, is this what you asked for? because this report stated the following about the Western Rail Corridor:

that The Ennis to Athenry section of rail line should only be considered forclosure after a full review is carried out of the extension of the Western Rail corridor and when the National Planning Framework has been published.

(page 43 of said report published August 2016 ) you can find it on the NTA website - go look.

Anyway hardly a ringing endorsement....Mr Canney, again this is only if you or any of your assistants read this page, the report that is coming out soon is the public consultation on this report, for which submissions closed in January, it is about what the public had to say about the already published Rail Review Report (August 2016). It is not the rail review nor is it the report you specifically asked for to secure your support for the government - remember that one - the apparent report you were due to get on the Western Rail Corridor...

Sorry folks are you following this?

The public consultation will make interesting reading. Its the report I had a letter in the Irish Times about back in July asking where the hell is this report. What I will share with readers of this thread is that the NTA contacted me by phone so it was off the record so to speak after the publication of that letter and said it will actually be published in September (2017 that is if anyone is going to ask!), apparently the delay in publication was due to resourcing issues! That's by the end of next week. I chased them up on it last week, apparently it is finished and is sitting on the desk of the board.

Of course if it is not favourable to the WRC (just as the actual rail review was) who knows, Mr Canney may be telling his colleague in government Mr Ross to delay its publication, who knows how these things work. But I reckon this public consultation process is going to throw a few irons in the fire, and it won't be good news for anyone hoping for freight from Claremorris to Foynes....Is this the report you wanted to be part of Government Mr Canney?

Or perhaps there is another report to come.

Finally as far as I am aware none of Mr Canneys constituents have been marching on the street demanding freight from Claremorris to Foynes to help the Tuam economy " we demand freight trains trundling through our town and we want it now!" ....... however 600 people did march for a greenway - wake up Mr Canney you are being a bloody fool not listening to what the voters say

marno21

westtip wrote: »

Mr Canney has actually got it wrong, the soon to be published NTA report on rail is not a rail review, that has already been done it was called the rail review report and was published by the NTA in August 2016, so Mr Canney if you read this thread, is this what you asked for? because this report stated the following about the Western Rail Corridor:

(page 43 of said report published August 2016 ) you can find it on the NTA website - go look.

Anyway hardly a ringing endorsement....Mr Canney, again this is only if you or any of your assistants read this page, the report that is coming out soon is the public consultation on this report, for which submissions closed in January, it is about what the public had to say about the already published Rail Review Report (August 2016). It is not the rail review nor is it the report you specifically asked for to secure your support for the government - remember that one - the apparent report you were due to get on the Western Rail Corridor...

Sorry folks are you following this?

The public consultation will make interesting reading. Its the report I had a letter in the Irish Times about back in July asking where the hell is this report. What I will share with readers of this thread is that the NTA contacted me by phone so it was off the record so to speak after the publication of that letter and said it will actually be published in September (2017 that is if anyone is going to ask!), apparently the delay in publication was due to resourcing issues! That's by the end of next week. I chased them up on it last week, apparently it is finished and is sitting on the desk of the board.

Of course if it is not favourable to the WRC (just as the actual rail review was) who knows, Mr Canney may be telling his colleague in government Mr Ross to delay its publication, who knows how these things work. But I reckon this public consultation process is going to throw a few irons in the fire, and it won't be good news for anyone hoping for freight from Claremorris to Foynes....Is this the report you wanted to be part of Government Mr Canney?

Or perhaps there is another report to come.

Finally as far as I am aware none of Mr Canneys constituents have been marching on the street demanding freight from Claremorris to Foynes to help the Tuam economy " we demand freight trains trundling through our town and we want it now!" ....... however 600 people did march for a greenway - wake up Mr Canney you are being a bloody fool not listening to what the voters say

The report hasn't been published because we all know what it'll say - there is no economic viability for the route. Which makes it worse that the N63 bridge is being redesigned.

I can't understand why Canney is still going down this road - how many genuine votes is he going to get by opposing the greenway in favour of a white elephant freight rail corridor, which requires 70km of new railway or so, when there will be a motorway from Tuam to Foynes by 2022.

eastwest

marno21 wrote: »

The report hasn't been published because we all know what it'll say - there is no economic viability for the route. Which makes it worse that the N63 bridge is being redesigned.

I can't understand why Canney is still going down this road - how many genuine votes is he going to get by opposing the greenway in favour of a white elephant freight rail corridor, which requires 70km of new railway or so, when there will be a motorway from Tuam to Foynes by 2022.

Whatever the reasons for Canney putting his loyalty to the little wot cult ahead of his constituents, there is a bigger problem in his representation of the voters in this constituency.
As often happens with a councillor who finds himself elected to a job beyond his abilities, Canney really dropped the ball when he stepped on to the Senior pitch. In a unique position during the formation of a minority government, he would have been asked what he wanted for Tuam in return for his support. Instead of asking for some deliverable local project (even the greenway), he asked for another stupid report on a closed railway that even he knows isn't going to reopen.
This missed opportunity for Tuam will be his lasting legacy.

Del.Monte

mayo.mick wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/annerabbitteportumna/photos/a.1463243497237463.1073741828.1426461550915658/2052777144950759/?type=3&theater

Nothing new here so. It was visionary FF governments and their lackey Todd Andrews who oversaw the closure of the West Cork system, and much of the rest of the railway network including the now reopened Harcourt Street line.

Del.Monte

I also note that Micheal Martin says that the reopening of the Midleton line has not lived up to expectations - are the figures available anywhere and I don't mean for one day when there was a full moon and high tide when the survey was done.

westtip

eastwest wrote: »

Whatever the reasons for Canney putting his loyalty to the little wot cult ahead of his constituents, there is a bigger problem in his representation of the voters in this constituency.
As often happens with a councillor who finds himself elected to a job beyond his abilities, Canney really dropped the ball when he stepped on to the Senior pitch. In a unique position during the formation of a minority government, he would have been asked what he wanted for Tuam in return for his support. Instead of asking for some deliverable local project (even the greenway), he asked for another stupid report on a closed railway that even he knows isn't going to reopen.
This missed opportunity for Tuam will be his lasting legacy.

And it is what the people of Tuam need to be reminded of. Mr Canney what did you do for us when you had the chance? Got a report on the western rail corridor which you want to see carry freight through Tuam from Claremorris. Maybe Mr Canney you in the wrong constituency? The new motorway was a done deal when you got to office, the greenway was the big issue we wanted to see happen and what did you do? You have tried to stop it from happening. Galway East need to be asking what did he actually do when he was in a position of influence?

Muckyboots

Del.Monte wrote: »

mayo.mick wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/annerabbitteportumna/photos/a.1463243497237463.1073741828.1426461550915658/2052777144950759/?type=3&theater

Nothing new here so. It was visionary FF governments and their lackey Todd Andrews who oversaw the closure of the West Cork system, and much of the rest of the railway network including the now reopened Harcourt Street line.

'Harcourt Street line"? The best argument you could find for protecting an alignment and retaining trackbed until a viable service becomes possible. Do you seriously think that had that way been used for pedestrians and cyclists that the Luas would have had to take a different route?

Del.Monte

Muckyboots wrote: »

'Harcourt Street line"? The best argument you could find for protecting an alignment and retaining trackbed until a viable service becomes possible. Do you seriously think that had that way been used for pedestrians and cyclists that the Luas would have had to take a different route?

Where did I mention anything about protecting alignments? I merely pointed out that FF's 'track' regarding Ireland's railways is beyond appalling.

end of the road

Muckyboots wrote: »

'Harcourt Street line"? The best argument you could find for protecting an alignment and retaining trackbed until a viable service becomes possible. Do you seriously think that had that way been used for pedestrians and cyclists that the Luas would have had to take a different route?

that possibility of it having to take a different route couldn't have been ruled out, given the odd similar situation in the uk where proposals to reopen a railway along a route now cycled by 1 man and his dog were stopped by a very very powerful who shouldn't have any say in anything group.
granted we don't have such a group here so maybe it would have been easy to take it back.

eastwest

end of the road wrote: »

that possibility of it having to take a different route couldn't have been ruled out, given the odd similar situation in the uk where proposals to reopen a railway along a route now cycled by 1 man and his dog were stopped by a very very powerful who shouldn't have any say in anything group.
granted we don't have such a group here so maybe it would have been easy to take it back.

We also have a much tighter licensing arrangement by CIE when allowing greenways on closed lines. The problems that arose in the case you mention could not feature here -- railway use always has first call on the asset.