Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

end of the road

marno21 wrote: »

Which is more than covered by the obscene cost of motoring in this country

the cost of motoring is high but not obscene. it has to be high to insure it fully covers it's costs, brings in revenue to the economy, and where public transport exists, reflect the premium and luxury nature of owning such a luxury item.

marno21

end of the road wrote: »

the cost of motoring is high but not obscene. it has to be high to insure it fully covers it's costs, brings in revenue to the economy, and where public transport exists, reflect the premium and luxury nature of owning such a luxury item.

Brings money into the economy so we can burn it all on empty trains on 19th century tracks with low speed limits while traffic flies by on the parallel motorway.

There is nothing luxury about an old carriage taking twice the time that road transport does strolling through empty villages. It has nothing whatsoever to offer over a bus does at present

end of the road

marno21 wrote: »

Brings money into the economy so we can burn it all on empty trains on 19th century tracks with low speed limits while traffic flies by on the parallel motorway.

There is nothing luxury about an old carriage taking twice the time that road transport does strolling through empty villages. It has nothing whatsoever to offer over a bus does at present

it has plenty to offer over a bus. busses in general rarely attract people out of their cars. the irish intercity services are an exception to the rule. where public transport exists and is frequent, a car is a luxury, premium item.

mayo.mick

https://www.facebook.com/claremorris.chamber/

"Plug Mayo into motorway network, say business leaders in Claremorris.
Claremorris Chamber of Commerce has called on the Government to sanction the planned motorway between Galway and Mayo in its forthcoming capital spending plan.
Ahead of the opening of the €550 million Gort-Tuam motorway, the business group said plugging Mayo into the motorway network would be a huge boost for regional development.
"The original plan was to build the motorway from Gort to Claremorris", said spokesman Jimmy Flynn. "Five routes were identified. One was selected. With Gort-Tuam open, and an extra €4 billion for capital spending, funding is not a problem, so the CPOs for the preferred route from Tuam to Claremorris should be issued right away. One short stretch from there to the N5, links Castlebar and Westport to the motorway network."
The Government has pledged an Atlantic Economic Corridor to enable the west to catch up the east. With the Cork-Limerick motorway a national priority, a three-city region - Cork, Limerick, Galway - is taking shape. Extending the motorway from Galway, first to Mayo and then to Sligo, pulls in the west and north-west, and puts an all-island, post-Brexit economy within reach.
Claremorris Chamber of Commerce is calling on the Government to ensure the west and north-west regions get a fair share of the spend from the capital plan due by year-end."

sonnyblack

mayo.mick wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/claremorris.chamber/

"Plug Mayo into motorway network, say business leaders in Claremorris.
Claremorris Chamber of Commerce has called on the Government to sanction the planned motorway between Galway and Mayo in its forthcoming capital spending plan.
Ahead of the opening of the €550 million Gort-Tuam motorway, the business group said plugging Mayo into the motorway network would be a huge boost for regional development.
"The original plan was to build the motorway from Gort to Claremorris", said spokesman Jimmy Flynn. "Five routes were identified. One was selected. With Gort-Tuam open, and an extra €4 billion for capital spending, funding is not a problem, so the CPOs for the preferred route from Tuam to Claremorris should be issued right away. One short stretch from there to the N5, links Castlebar and Westport to the motorway network."
The Government has pledged an Atlantic Economic Corridor to enable the west to catch up the east. With the Cork-Limerick motorway a national priority, a three-city region - Cork, Limerick, Galway - is taking shape. Extending the motorway from Galway, first to Mayo and then to Sligo, pulls in the west and north-west, and puts an all-island, post-Brexit economy within reach.
Claremorris Chamber of Commerce is calling on the Government to ensure the west and north-west regions get a fair share of the spend from the capital plan due by year-end."

Assuming the N5 Turlough to Westport starts, ye have enough up there for the moment. Cork to Limerick motorway is far more important than Tuam to south mayo. That has to be given priority

road_high

mayo.mick wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/claremorris.chamber/

"Plug Mayo into motorway network, say business leaders in Claremorris.
Claremorris Chamber of Commerce has called on the Government to sanction the planned motorway between Galway and Mayo in its forthcoming capital spending plan.
Ahead of the opening of the €550 million Gort-Tuam motorway, the business group said plugging Mayo into the motorway network would be a huge boost for regional development.
"The original plan was to build the motorway from Gort to Claremorris", said spokesman Jimmy Flynn. "Five routes were identified. One was selected. With Gort-Tuam open, and an extra €4 billion for capital spending, funding is not a problem, so the CPOs for the preferred route from Tuam to Claremorris should be issued right away. One short stretch from there to the N5, links Castlebar and Westport to the motorway network."
The Government has pledged an Atlantic Economic Corridor to enable the west to catch up the east. With the Cork-Limerick motorway a national priority, a three-city region - Cork, Limerick, Galway - is taking shape. Extending the motorway from Galway, first to Mayo and then to Sligo, pulls in the west and north-west, and puts an all-island, post-Brexit economy within reach.
Claremorris Chamber of Commerce is calling on the Government to ensure the west and north-west regions get a fair share of the spend from the capital plan due by year-end."

It is plugged into the network via the N5 and N17...just because they don't have physical M ways on blessed Mayo soil doesn't mean they're not connected. This a county with a low pop density. Jesus, even the Chambers up there are in on the whinge fest.
Claremorris is a tiny little town and is well connected as it is with the N17.

Coillte_Bhoy

Work has started on laying new tracks in Kiltimagh for the Velorail project. the Sligo Mayo Greenaway group never even has as much as a public meeting on the issue in town. :rolleyes:

westtip

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Work has started on laying new tracks in Kiltimagh for the Velorail project. the Sligo Mayo Greenaway group never even has as much as a public meeting on the issue in town. :rolleyes:

Thanks for letting us know, not been up there recently, doesn't matter about a meeting, Mayo county council are a bunch of bullies who think they can do what they want and will ignore public opinion in any event, they are being referred to An bord Pleanala for the way they have "rail roaded" pardon pun this project in. You think a public meeting will stop anything? Mayo coco won't listen to the people they didn't when they failed to consider nearly 300 submissions asking for a greenway on the county plan, As for the organisation behind the velo rail, I have heard a few choice words in Kiltimagh about that gang!

westtip

News has come through this afternoon that the motion to have a greenway feasibility study done on the Galway section of the Western Rail Trail from Athenry to Milltown has been defeated in Galway coco meeting, there was hope it would get through after a vote was tied back in March, but the anti-tourism chair at the time, voted against the motion, so it was a close run thing. This time the anti-tourism faction threw yet another spanner in the works with a counter motion saying the whole thing should be postponed until the much vaunted and promised report which anti-tourism TD Sean Canney asked for on the Western Rail Corridor is published, so we have to sit and wait for another report on the Western Rail Corridor which will once again kick the can down the road.

It's not a setback for the greenway campaign it is just another example of how the anti-tourism lobby will do everything they can to stop it happening. So Mr Canney can we see your report please???

http://www.tuamherald.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/09/25/4146328-vote-on-greenway-study-put-on-hold/

eastwest

westtip wrote: »

News has come through this afternoon that the motion to have a greenway feasibility study done on the Galway section of the Western Rail Trail from Athenry to Milltown has been defeated in Galway coco meeting, there was hope it would get through after a vote was tied back in March, but the anti-tourism chair at the time, voted against the motion, so it was a close run thing. This time the anti-tourism faction threw yet another spanner in the works with a counter motion saying the whole thing should be postponed until the much vaunted and promised report which anti-tourism TD Sean Canney asked for on the Western Rail Corridor is published, so we have to sit and wait for another report on the Western Rail Corridor which will once again kick the can down the road.

It's not a setback for the greenway campaign it is just another example of how the anti-tourism lobby will do everything they can to stop it happening. So Mr Canney can we see your report please???

http://www.tuamherald.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/09/25/4146328-vote-on-greenway-study-put-on-hold/

You have to hand it to Canney, his legacy as the man who kept the greenway out of Tuam will be remembered long after he has disappeared from the political landscape.

Kristopherus

eastwest wrote: »

You have to hand it to Canney, his legacy as the man who kept the greenway out of Tuam will be remembered long after he has disappeared from the political landscape.

And that disappearance is looming, methinks.:)

road_high

westtip wrote: »

News has come through this afternoon that the motion to have a greenway feasibility study done on the Galway section of the Western Rail Trail from Athenry to Milltown has been defeated in Galway coco meeting, there was hope it would get through after a vote was tied back in March, but the anti-tourism chair at the time, voted against the motion, so it was a close run thing. This time the anti-tourism faction threw yet another spanner in the works with a counter motion saying the whole thing should be postponed until the much vaunted and promised report which anti-tourism TD Sean Canney asked for on the Western Rail Corridor is published, so we have to sit and wait for another report on the Western Rail Corridor which will once again kick the can down the road.

It's not a setback for the greenway campaign it is just another example of how the anti-tourism lobby will do everything they can to stop it happening. So Mr Canney can we see your report please???

http://www.tuamherald.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/09/25/4146328-vote-on-greenway-study-put-on-hold/

The new M17/18 has killed stone dead any hope of a so called Western rail corridor. I can see that all the way from the sunny south east. Connecting tiny little towns like Claremorris, Tuam and Kiltimagh on a rail line of poor alignment right next to a brand new M-way makes no sense and we can in no way afford such frivolity. Sligo has barely 20k people which I understand would be the ultimate destination. Run proper buses along the motorway and it will be fair more effective and cheaper.

end of the road

road_high wrote: »

The new M17/18 has killed stone dead any hope of a so called Western rail corridor. I can see that all the way from the sunny south east. Connecting tiny little towns like Claremorris, Tuam and Kiltimagh on a rail line of poor alignment right next to a brand new M-way makes no sense and we can in no way afford such frivolity.

we can very much afford it and it makes perfect sense seeing as we are wasting money on a motor way for little towns which don't actually justify it either. the existence of the motor way should not prohibit the rebuilding of the railway, the fact the railway isn't warrented on it's own merrits is the only thing that should.

road_high wrote: »

Sligo has barely 20k people which I understand would be the ultimate destination. Run proper buses along the motorway and it will be fair more effective and cheaper.

not if you include infrastructure costs. running busses along that stretch would likely be less effective then leaving it to the car, as they could never justify being frequent enough to capture users in large numbers to warrent a frequent service. i would be surprised if there would be that much of a requirement for public transport between tuam and Claremorris or sligo.

eastwest

Kristopherus wrote: »

And that disappearance is looming, methinks.:)

But not quick enough for most people!
You'd wonder what he has against Tuam, was he bullied there as a little fellow?

eastwest

road_high wrote: »

The new M17/18 has killed stone dead any hope of a so called Western rail corridor. I can see that all the way from the sunny south east. Connecting tiny little towns like Claremorris, Tuam and Kiltimagh on a rail line of poor alignment right next to a brand new M-way makes no sense and we can in no way afford such frivolity. Sligo has barely 20k people which I understand would be the ultimate destination. Run proper buses along the motorway and it will be fair more effective and cheaper.

The anti greenway campaign don't care, as long as they can stop the greenway. They had a good day out today, blocking investment in Tuam.

marno21

end of the road wrote: »

we can very much afford it and it makes perfect sense seeing as we are wasting money on a motor way for little towns which don't actually justify it either. the existence of the motor way should not prohibit the rebuilding of the railway, the fact the railway isn't warrented on it's own merrits is the only thing that should.



not if you include infrastructure costs. running busses along that stretch would likely be less effective then leaving it to the car, as they could never justify being frequent enough to capture users in large numbers to warrent a frequent service. i would be surprised if there would be that much of a requirement for public transport between tuam and Claremorris or sligo.

This is either delusional or trolling nonsense.

Ask the people along the corridor would they rather a proper road link or a 15mph railway for pensioners and trainspotters.

There was hundreds out supporting the greenway in Tuam. How many railway supporters were there?

mayo.mick

westtip wrote: »

News has come through this afternoon that the motion to have a greenway feasibility study done on the Galway section of the Western Rail Trail from Athenry to Milltown has been defeated in Galway coco meeting, there was hope it would get through after a vote was tied back in March, but the anti-tourism chair at the time, voted against the motion, so it was a close run thing. This time the anti-tourism faction threw yet another spanner in the works with a counter motion saying the whole thing should be postponed until the much vaunted and promised report which anti-tourism TD Sean Canney asked for on the Western Rail Corridor is published, so we have to sit and wait for another report on the Western Rail Corridor which will once again kick the can down the road.

It's not a setback for the greenway campaign it is just another example of how the anti-tourism lobby will do everything they can to stop it happening. So Mr Canney can we see your report please???

http://www.tuamherald.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/09/25/4146328-vote-on-greenway-study-put-on-hold/

So let me get this straight (forgive me, I'm a bit stupid), sean canny entered government (which hangs on his support) on condition that yet another report be done on the closed rotting railway line (which is being overtaken and encroached upon) within six months of entering government? 6 months after entering government? Now I lose track of time myself but I think we're a bit over 6 months, where is this report?

Now forgive me again, (I'm still a bit thick), Galway co co have brought a motion, that nothing be done until this *report* is published/undertaken? Why are none of the national journalists asking questions?

I'm sure sean canny & minister ross will be at the official opening of the new M18 motorway from Gort to Tuam on this Wednesday, perfect opportunity for some journalists to ask some questions

Official opening of M18 taking place at kiltiernan at 11am on Wednesday I think (open to correction).

voz es

Trying to stop people putting a bike track on a rare and expensive piece of infastructure is not anti-tourism.

Trying to put barriers in the way of regenerating infastructure on the western rail corridor, is simply anti-rural and anti-west.

Why bikes need train stations, train lines and train bridges while weighing less than 200kg and being no wider than a broad pair of shoulders is beyond any logical argument when it comes to the betterment of the west of Ireland.

However, that is just looking at it in a micro sence. Micheal Martin is rightly trying to pull the funding away from the west and down to the south, that is what his votes are. Eastern based politicians blocked Ireland west airport before and are doing the same now.
The less funding the west has the more stays near the capital where our youth seeking something other than dieing towns, weak social scenes and job offerings over-riding with menial work go.

If we are able to tie a rail link into Knock airport and link the large rural urban hubs from Cork to Belfast alo g the west of this island, we will have a far stronger hand in attracting international employees and employers.

Follow that up with top end broad band which if I remember correctly is landing in kilalla, then the connacht region will have a great offering.

I will say that I am all in favour of bike tracks but why do we have to hurt one to get the other. Petiton minister Ross to CPO land for a bike link for more than just 8 towns.

That's my two cent.

BoatMad

I will say that I am all in favour of bike tracks but why do we have to hurt one to get the other. Petiton minister Ross to CPO land for a bike link for more than just 8 towns.

That's my two cent.

Correct , The greenway argument either stands on its own or it doesnt and land can be acquired easily for greenway as it has little more then a footpath type of requirement

Arguing against rail to establish an argument for cycle paths is entirely wrong and must be resisted

rebel456

BoatMad wrote: »

Correct , The greenway argument either stands on its own or it doesnt and land can be acquired easily for greenway as it has little more then a footpath type of requirement

Arguing against rail to establish an argument for cycle paths is entirely wrong and must be resisted

This isn't the 'CPO random land for an Athenry to Tuam cycleway' thread. Folks arguing in favour of the greenway on the old rail route, me included, mostly accept that the chance of rail returning is remote & it is best to make use of this state asset instead of it eventually falling into the hands of local landowners.

Given the comments by Micheál Martin, who'll likely lead the next Government, and the failure of Sean Canney to get anything more than a report, it is clear that the political will just is not there to develop White Elephant Western Rail Corridor part 2.

BoatMad

This isn't the 'CPO random land for an Athenry to Tuam cycleway' thread. Folks arguing in favour of the greenway on the old rail route, me included, mostly accept that the chance of rail returning is remote & it is best to make use of this state asset instead of it eventually falling into the hands of local landowners.

Firstly there is NO risk of the route being lost to landowners, once a minimum of oversight is maintained, Adverse possession simply isnt possible

That argument for a greenway is a complete straw man argument , farmers themselves have failed to bring any adverse possession case against CIE and illegal occupation of the track bed, is exactly that - illegal ( and in fact farmers are far more concerned about Greenways then old rail lines )

mostly accept that the chance of rail returning is remote

exactly the same thing was said about the Harcourt track bed, and the line to Middleton,

rebel456

BoatMad wrote: »

Firstly there is NO risk of the route being lost to landowners, once a minimum of oversight is maintained, Adverse possession simply isnt possible

That argument for a greenway is a complete straw man argument , farmers themselves have failed to bring any adverse possession case against CIE and illegal occupation of the track bed, is exactly that - illegal ( and in fact farmers are far more concerned about Greenways then old rail lines )

CIE don't have the budget for maintaining old trackbeds. Farmers in Kerry prevented the extension of the Greenway on the old North Kerry railway line as they had taken over sections. CIE isn't going to spend its limited budget taking court cases to protect trackbed when the chance of trains returning is getting every more remote - a near certainty now.

Let's make use of the asset now and lay down a Greenway so locals and tourists alike can benefit, instead of leaving it to rot away so the rail-or-nothing lobby can keep the vigil going.

BoatMad wrote: »

exactly the same thing was said about the Harcourt track bed, and the line to Middleton,

The Harcourt St Line, now LUAS Green Line, is a suburban tram route traversing an area where hundreds of thousands of people live and work, it serves a city of over 1 million... it's not in any way comparable to Athenry-Tuam. Compare passenger numbers on Ennis-Athenry to the yearly LUAS figures to get an idea.

BoatMad

CIE don't have the budget for maintaining old trackbeds. Farmers in Kerry prevented the extension of the Greenway on the old North Kerry railway line as they had taken over sections. CIE isn't going to spend its limited budget taking court cases to protect trackbed when the chance of trains returning is getting every more remote - a near certainty now.

with a minimum of effort The " state " in whatever guise can prevent adverse possession from farmers ( and adverse possession is now very difficult to establish ) so lets campaign to prevent any illegal land grab.

Let's make use of the asset now and lay down a Greenway so locals and tourists alike can benefit, instead of leaving it to rot away so the rail-or-nothing lobby can keep the vigil going.

No lets not , by all means establish greenways. but the use of rail infrastructure ( and thats what it remains ) that is simply currently disused is it itself NOT a reason to convert it into a greenway and deny the possibility of it ever being used again as a rail link

Greenways need nothing like the quality of infrastructure that lies under a track bed.

BoatMad

The Harcourt St Line, now LUAS Green Line, is a suburban tram route traversing an area where hundreds of thousands of people live and work, it serves a city of over 1 million... it's not in any way comparable to Athenry-Tuam. Compare passenger numbers on Ennis-Athenry to the yearly LUAS figures to get an idea.

In the 70s, exactly the same points were made by people like you , " it will never be used " etc etc exactly like the " fill in the canals " cry in the late 60s

or the "close the shannon to boats in mid 60s " cries that had to be fought off, ( and today we have a triving waterway

by all means have greenways, hands off rail infrastructure

voz es

The railway line is not going to fall into local land owners hands, this is scaremongering . Adverse possession will only work after 12 years of ignoring the lands. Irish rail has an obligation to safe guard it's assets, only this week I seen repair work on railway gates.

I hope the western rail corridor will be around a lot longer than the 5-7 year terms of politicans, espically those who are trying to sabotage our growth as a region.

Those who aim to put a bike track on our western rail line need to have a hard look at why they would want to purposfuly attack rare piece of connacht infastructure.

Just say you feel it is remote, why go out of your way and try and kill it off. A bike track would always be used to put down any future attempts to get it back. The person behind the airport in knock, faced staunch opposition from government untill they got it half way there.

Please believe in the Western potential!!!

rebel456

BoatMad wrote: »

No lets not , by all means establish greenways. but the use of rail infrastructure ( and thats what it remains ) that is simply currently disused is it itself NOT a reason to convert it into a greenway and deny the possibility of it ever being used again as a rail link

Greenways need nothing like the quality of infrastructure that lies under a track bed.

BoatMad wrote: »

In the 70s, exactly the same points were made by people like you , " it will never be used " etc etc exactly like the " fill in the canals " cry in the late 60s

or the "close the shannon to boats in mid 60s " cries that had to be fought off, ( and today we have a triving waterway

by all means have greenways, hands off rail infrastructure

With the chance of trains returning to this old rural rail route becoming ever more remote... you prefer to keep it as an overgrown trackbed instead of making use of the land by allowing folks to walk & cycle?

I'm genuinely curious as to why you would deny locals especially the ability to make use of a state asset that is otherwise lying completely idle.

Your last point is fairly telling - mine, mine, mine. Trains or nothing. Complete greed.

eastwest

BoatMad wrote: »

Greenways need nothing like the quality of infrastructure that lies under a track bed.

Neither do briars, but that seems to be the policy.

eastwest

voz es wrote: »

The railway line is not going to fall into local land owners hands, this is scaremongering . Adverse possession will only work after 12 years of ignoring the lands. Irish rail has an obligation to safe guard it's assets, only this week I seen repair work on railway gates.

I hope the western rail corridor will be around a lot longer than the 5-7 year terms of politicans, espically those who are trying to sabotage our growth as a region.

Those who aim to put a bike track on our western rail line need to have a hard look at why they would want to purposfuly attack rare piece of connacht infastructure.

Just say you feel it is remote, why go out of your way and try and kill it off. A bike track would always be used to put down any future attempts to get it back. The person behind the airport in knock, faced staunch opposition from government untill they got it half way there.

Please believe in the Western potential!!!

If I believed in fairies, I'd have more people agreeing with me.
The biggest risk to closed and effectively abandoned lines isn't just squatters, it's county councils and road widening. take a trip around Donegal or Leitrim and see what I mean.

end of the road

rebel456 wrote: »

CIE don't have the budget for maintaining old trackbeds.

they don't need one as they don't have to maintain the track bed. just send someone down once a year and insure nobody is taking over. if they are, a lad with a digger comes along and job done. it's as simple as that, and you would only need to pay for the digger at the absolute maximum.

rebel456 wrote: »

Farmers in Kerry prevented the extension of the Greenway on the old North Kerry railway line as they had taken over sections. CIE isn't going to spend its limited budget taking court cases to protect trackbed when the chance of trains returning is getting every more remote - a near certainty now.

they don't have to spend money taking court cases.

rebel456 wrote: »

Let's make use of the asset now and lay down a Greenway so locals and tourists alike can benefit, instead of leaving it to rot away so the rail-or-nothing lobby can keep the vigil going.

there is no demand. locals have better things to do and tourists want something to actually see.

rebel456 wrote: »

The Harcourt St Line, now LUAS Green Line, is a suburban tram route traversing an area where hundreds of thousands of people live and work, it serves a city of over 1 million... it's not in any way comparable to Athenry-Tuam. Compare passenger numbers on Ennis-Athenry to the yearly LUAS figures to get an idea.

in relation to the argument over greenways or all else taking over railways and preventing those rail beds being unable to be brought back into railway use, they are all comparible. that is what would have happened with the harcourt line had it been turned into a greenway.

rebel456

voz es wrote: »

I hope the western rail corridor will be around a lot longer than the 5-7 year terms of politicans, espically those who are trying to sabotage our growth as a region.

Those who aim to put a bike track on our western rail line need to have a hard look at why they would want to purposfuly attack rare piece of connacht infastructure.

Just say you feel it is remote, why go out of your way and try and kill it off. A bike track would always be used to put down any future attempts to get it back. The person behind the airport in knock, faced staunch opposition from government untill they got it half way there.

Please believe in the Western potential!!!

I genuinely feel sorry you've been sold this tall-tale by glorified Country Councillors trying to swing a vote. The West has much more to offer than relying on running the occasional freight train on an old meandering railway line.

end of the road wrote: »

they don't need one as they don't have to maintain the track bed. just send someone down once a year and insure nobody is taking over. if they are, a lad with a digger comes along and job done. it's as simple as that, and you would only need to pay for the digger at the absolute maximum.

they don't have to spend money taking court cases.

It's just not as simple as that (and was pointed out previously on this thread to you). A farmer does have the right not be mowed down by a digger, including his/her assets that have been erected etc. IR would have to take court action to remove someone using the trackbed. An action they are unlikely to take given the increasing remoteness trains will ever run.

end of the road wrote: »

there is no demand. locals have better things to do and tourists want something to actually see.

Are you actually being serious?

Look at the success of the Wateford Greenway, the Midlands Greenway, the Westport-Achill stretch. All attracting scores of tourists and locals alike to enjoy a cycle or walk.

600 people turning out in Tuam in support of the Greenway a few months ago, 600 in a town the size of Tuam is a colossal number.

How many have turned out to support 'West on Track' lately?