Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

BoatMad

eastwest wrote: »

If I believed in fairies, I'd have more people agreeing with me.
The biggest risk to closed and effectively abandoned lines isn't just squatters, it's county councils and road widening. take a trip around Donegal or Leitrim and see what I mean.

lack of enlightenment in the past , does not justify doing nothing now

The value of retaining recent trackbeds has been seen to work, had the existing WRC gone the same way, theres no way wed have it opened today

Greenways justified in themselves are fine, as a way of removing future rail infrastructure, they are not

BoatMad

It's just not as simple as that (and was pointed out previously on this thread to you). A farmer does have the right not be mowed down by a digger, including his/her assets that have been erected etc. IR would have to take court action to remove someone using the trackbed. An action they are unlikely to take given the increasing remoteness trains will ever run.

absolute nonsense, you are entitled to remove illegal structures on your land without further recourse, it would be up to the farmer to establish a claim and resultant damages ( which would fail )

you cannot of course injure the farmer in the process, but thats entirely different .

end of the road

rebel456 wrote: »

Are you actually being serious?

yes.

rebel456 wrote: »

Look at the success of the Wateford Greenway, the Midlands Greenway, the Westport-Achill stretch. All attracting scores of tourists and locals alike to enjoy a cycle or walk.

2 of those are new. 1 out of those admittidly has something worth cycling to see, the other, nothing. we will see in a couple of years how they are doing.

rebel456 wrote: »

600 people turning out in Tuam in support of the Greenway a few months ago, 600 in a town the size of Tuam is a colossal number.

but a small number over all.

rebel456 wrote: »

How many have turned out to support 'West on Track' lately?

it doesn't matter.

rebel456

BoatMad wrote: »

absolute nonsense, you are entitled to remove illegal structures on your land without further recourse, it would be up to the farmer to establish a claim and resultant damages ( which would fail )

you cannot of course injure the farmer in the process, but thats entirely different .

You get a court order requiting they vacate the property. My family have had to do this with some farmland taken over by folks who live in caravans... you can imagine how that went.

In any case, CIE just won't have the budget for court cases, they might not even send send 'a lad in a digger' down anymore, and eventually stop even trying - as happened with trackbed in the past. Thus lets prevent this and actually make use of the asset now - as were the wishes of the 600 folks who turned out in Tuam last June.

BoatMad

Originally Posted by rebel456 View Post
Look at the success of the Wateford Greenway, the Midlands Greenway, the Westport-Achill stretch. All attracting scores of tourists and locals alike to enjoy a cycle or walk.

when it opened , the Rosslare to Cork/Kerry line carried 100,000s of people, loads " turned out " to marvel at it and try it for the first time

so what

Markcheese

Personally I'm not into the argument that the greenaway will protect the alignment... Its a disused railway line.. Its of zero use to anyone...
. . . A greenway has no more or less right to exist than a railway line, running or defunct... Their reason for existing is economic activity... And ón that front the front the greenway trumps all...

BoatMad

Its a disused railway line.. Its of zero use to anyone...

its of use to future generations who might want to reuse it

( like say harcourt , or the many lines in the UK that are now being reinstated etc )

A greenway has no more or less right to exist than a railway line

yes, but it is currently a railway infrastructure its not a greenway

Their reason for existing is economic activity... And ón that front the front the greenway trumps all...

nonsense, its firstly not about pure economics, and secondly " tourist " projects are funny financial justifications as they are not businesses . the greenway is not a business, its in reality a piece of social development largely and almost exclusively funded by the taxpayer

rebel456

BoatMad wrote: »

its of use to future generations who might want to reuse it

yes, but it is currently a railway infrastructure its not a greenway

It is currently a wildlife park with a hint of gravel poking through every now and then.

And it will stay that way as long as locals are prevented from changing its use into an amenity that they can enjoy, along with attract tourists to the town(s).

BoatMad

rebel456 wrote: »

It is currently a wildlife park with a hint of gravel poking through every now and then.

And it will stay that way as long as locals are prevented from changing its use into an amenity that they can enjoy, along with attract tourists to the town(s).

Its a piece of potential transport infrastructure and one that is potentially an alternative to road

remove it and its gone

a greenway can be built anyway on its own justification

Im not against greenways , just they dont " need" to acquire rail lines to be justified

rebel456

BoatMad wrote: »

Its a piece of potential transport infrastructure and one that is potentially an alternative to road

remove it and its gone

a greenway can be built anyway on its own justification

Im not against greenways , just they dont " need" to acquire rail lines to be justified

And I'm not against railways. I am pro-rail, pro-greenway. But most importantly, pro-common sense in the use of state assets.

There is little prospect of the Athenry to Tuam alignment being reopened to rail - no matter how much you try compare it with the suburban Harcourt Street line.

Thus make use of the strip of land instead of having it lying idle, as the 600 folks in Tuam tuned out to support.

TCDStudent1

Kristopherus wrote: »

And that disappearance is looming, methinks.:)

Canney is based in the Tuam part of the constituency. So you'd have to think he'll lose votes over this.

Interestingly, Ciaran cannon is very vocal over his support for the greenway. He is based in south of constituency (well away from tuam). And he hasn't fared well in elections around tuam (FG tried to divide constituency between 2 candidates last time). This issue could actually see him steal some of canneys votes next time around.

I don't understand why they were so resistant towards a feasibility study. its just a feasibility check - wouldn't it make sense to decide on future of the line when you're fully informed? Why not have a greenway feasibility study along with the rail report?

westtip

rebel456 wrote: »

And I'm not against railways. I am pro-rail, pro-greenway. But most importantly, pro-common sense in the use of state assets.

There is little prospect of the Athenry to Tuam alignment being reopened to rail - no matter how much you try compare it with the suburban Harcourt Street line.

Thus make use of the strip of land instead of having it lying idle, as the 600 folks in Tuam tuned out to support.

Don't worry you will never get it through their skulls, today in Galway coco was just another stalling act by archaic thinking fools. The Railway is not going to be rebuilt, they know it but it has now become a matter of spite to stop the greenway. It is almost like a religion to some. The Western Rail Corridor will not be re-opened but we probably won;t see a greenway either, not as long as the decision is left with backward thinking councillors several of which pick up a few quid every month on their expenses going to the Western Inter County Railway committee meetings.

Come on Canney show us what you are doing for Tuam.

Del.Monte

rebel456 wrote: »

And I'm not against railways. I am pro-rail, pro-greenway. But most importantly, pro-common sense in the use of state assets.

There is little prospect of the Athenry to Tuam alignment being reopened to rail - no matter how much you try compare it with the suburban Harcourt Street line.

Thus make use of the strip of land instead of having it lying idle, as the 600 folks in Tuam tuned out to support.

The evidence of all your posting would suggest otherwise.

eastwest

westtip wrote: »

Don't worry you will never get it through their skulls, today in Galway coco was just another stalling act by archaic thinking fools. The Railway is not going to be rebuilt, they know it but it has now become a matter of spite to stop the greenway. It is almost like a religion to some. The Western Rail Corridor will not be re-opened but we probably won;t see a greenway either, not as long as the decision is left with backward thinking councillors several of which pick up a few quid every month on their expenses going to the Western Inter County Railway committee meetings.

Come on Canney show us what you are doing for Tuam.

It would appear that Sean Canney is not only doing nothing for Tuam but he is expending a lot of time and political.capital on working against the interests of Tuam.
Last year Sean Canney was in a very privileged position as a local TD. He effectively held the balance of power in the formation of a government, just as Tony Gregory did back in the day. Whatever he looked for for Tuam would have been considered. In similar situations, TDs all.over Ireland have delivered in a big way for their constituencies.
So, what did Sean Canney ask for? The extension of the M17 northwards? A sports centre? Something from the wish list of the council or the local.community groups?
Not at all, he asked for another report on the defunct Western rail corridor, to be delivered within six months. The negotiators must have wondered what the catch was, if he was willing to trade his support for a pointless piece of paper; there hasnt been such a one-sided trade since the native Americans were bought with coloured beads and whiskey.
He's a laughing stock in Irish politics, the guy who completely blew it when opportunity knocked. To add insult to.injury, the six month deadline has come and gone and there is no sign of the report. He couldn't even deliver that useless piece of paper.
Tuam has a knack of being unforgiving with useless politicians, with a number of 'one hit wonders' who were not returned for a second term. Canney will be back counting blocks in a year or so.

marno21

Del.Monte wrote: »

The evidence of all your posting would suggest otherwise.

There's a difference between being pro sensible useful rail and pro rail for trainspotters and pensioners that's of little use to 99% of people

Quackster

BoatMad wrote: »

absolute nonsense, you are entitled to remove illegal structures on your land without further recourse, it would be up to the farmer to establish a claim and resultant damages ( which would fail )

you cannot of course injure the farmer in the process, but thats entirely different .

If you think it's so simple (and that CIE act accordingly) you should check out the squatting on the until-recently-CIE-owned Fenit and North Kerry lines. The North Kerry line has BT Ireland trunk fibre running along it and even that didn't protect it from the squatters.

You are seriously deluded in thinking a rail line can lie idle indefinitely and not be subject to encroachment.

voz es

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Canney is based in the Tuam part of the constituency. So you'd have to think he'll lose votes over this.

Interestingly, Ciaran cannon is very vocal over his support for the greenway. He is based in south of constituency (well away from tuam). And he hasn't fared well in elections around tuam (FG tried to divide constituency between 2 candidates last time). This issue could actually see him steal some of canneys votes next time around.

I don't understand why they were so resistant towards a feasibility study. its just a feasibility check - wouldn't it make sense to decide on future of the line when you're fully informed? Why not have a greenway feasibility study along with the rail report?

Ya Ciaran Cannon is laughable. Athenry has a railway line already. Not such a big deal in athenry the lack of a railway line. He is hoping to snatch a few votes in the north west of his electoral region A man boosting his own vote while jepordising the region, typical short term thinking.

I hope all those in favour don't give him anything.

Muckyboots

voz es wrote: »

Ya Ciaran Cannon is laughable. Athenry has a railway line already. Not such a big deal in athenry the lack of a railway line. He is hoping to snatch a few votes in the north west of his electoral region A man boosting his own vote while jepordising the region, typical short term thinking.

I hope all those in favour don't give him anything.

Ciaran Cannon will unseat Sean Canney ( whose name is now mud in Tuam) at the next election and will bring a north county based kicker in with him. You heard it here first. :cool:

schemingbohemia

BoatMad wrote: »

its of use to future generations who might want to reuse it

( like say harcourt , or the many lines in the UK that are now being reinstated etc )


yes, but it is currently a railway infrastructure its not a greenway


nonsense, its firstly not about pure economics, and secondly " tourist " projects are funny financial justifications as they are not businesses . the greenway is not a business, its in reality a piece of social development largely and almost exclusively funded by the taxpayer

Any chance of a link to the many lines in the UK being reinstated?

end of the road

marno21 wrote: »

There's a difference between being pro sensible useful rail and pro rail for trainspotters and pensioners that's of little use to 99% of people

well there isn't anyone here who is pro rail for trainspotters and pensioners that's of little use to 99% of people, so your argument has no validity in my view.

westtip

Muckyboots wrote: »

Ciaran Cannon will unseat Sean Canney ( whose name is now mud in Tuam) at the next election and will bring a north county based kicker in with him. You heard it here first. :cool:

Wow! Is the local reaction to his blocking the greenway enough to really shift him, read some comments on other social media and he seems to have put his size nines (or actually probably size 7 and a halfs) in on this one. Is this going to be straw that breaks the camels back and finally gets Tuam voters to oust Canney? That would be a massive progess and forward thinking by the electorate as he has seemingly delivered nothing, has his role in this charade made him that unpopular or will the usual cronyism kick in. Does the election campaign start in Tuam now by letting every voter know Canney stopped the greenway?

Will the greenway be a big game changer for Canney in Tuam interested to hear what you have to say on this Muckyboots!

westtip

BoatMad wrote: »

Firstly there is NO risk of the route being lost to landowners, once a minimum of oversight is maintained, Adverse possession simply isnt possible

Ahem - suggest you look at this briefing written re Sligo several years ago, you can ignore the links and references to Transport 21 etc they are old news but this one is still running, the line is being encroached upon this is the photographic evidence, not hearsay, but fact.

You are talking through your hat the longer the line is left unattended the more of this will happen so wake up, a greenway does in fact protect the route and do you know what no harm if the small path that a greenway is has to be torn up in the future for a railway a greenway path can simply be put in alongside, at little extra cost in the grand scheme of things, so a greenway in situ does in fact protect the route, end of, fact, no escaping it.

So please don't insult our intelligence by telling us there is no risk of the route being lost to landowners - it can be and in Sligo already is, this document was originally written in 2011 all the examples in it of encroachment still exist, once again you are talking through your hat, the line is being stolen bit by bit.

Muckyboots

westtip wrote: »

Will the greenway be a big game changer for Canney in Tuam interested to hear what you have to say on this Muckyboots!

It's as simple as this really. The vast majority of people in Tuam (who care) want the Greenway. There is no rail lobby in Tuam - none, zero, zilch. You wouldn't get a half a dozen locals at a meeting. People are not stupid. Everyone in Tuam knows who WOT are and their Claremorris based ambitions. Sean Canney pulled a political fast one on Tuam and the town is small enough for everyone to know this but big enough to punish him at the polls. Done it before and they'll do it again.

westtip

Muckyboots wrote: »

It's as simple as this really. The vast majority of people in Tuam (who care) want the Greenway. There is no rail lobby in Tuam - none, zero, zilch. You wouldn't get a half a dozen locals at a meeting. People are not stupid. Everyone in Tuam knows who WOT are and their Claremorris based ambitions. Sean Canney pulled a political fast one on Tuam and the town is small enough for everyone to know this but big enough to punish him at the polls. Done it before and they'll do it again.

Is there a new political slogan in Tuam then?

Canney Out ... Greenway in.... Canney Out... Greenway in

Bet that chant would go down well at any of his gatherings or ribbon cuttings!

voz es

Muckyboots wrote: »

Ciaran Cannon will unseat Sean Canney ( whose name is now mud in Tuam) at the next election and will bring a north county based kicker in with him. You heard it here first. :cool:

Now that is not true, I have many friends in Tuam, have worked in Tuam and have family in tuam. Canneys name is strong. Mind word around from what I have heard is people are asking how many people of the 600 walkers were actually from tuam?

eastwest

Muckyboots wrote: »

It's as simple as this really. The vast majority of people in Tuam (who care) want the Greenway. There is no rail lobby in Tuam - none, zero, zilch. You wouldn't get a half a dozen locals at a meeting. People are not stupid. Everyone in Tuam knows who WOT are and their Claremorris based ambitions. Sean Canney pulled a political fast one on Tuam and the town is small enough for everyone to know this but big enough to punish him at the polls. Done it before and they'll do it again.

There's no doubt that Canney read this completely wrong, but why?
Does the little wot cult really have such a hold over its inner circle?
You can understand the councillors with their little gravy train of the inter county railway committee, getting expenses on the double wherever they attend meetings of regional bodies, but a td has nothing to gain other than looking after the cronies who work to get him elected.
They're going to have to work very hard to get him a vote in Tuam next year; pushing water up a hill seems a lot easier.

Muckyboots

voz es wrote: »

Now that is not true, I have many friends in Tuam, have worked in Tuam and have family in tuam. Canneys name is strong. Mind word around from what I have heard is people are asking how many people of the 600 walkers were actually from tuam?

You are probably correct. I'm not from Tuam and just see what I see on Facebook. I actually heard from a friend who lives in Tuam that one of the walkers was, in fact, a cycle nut who drove from Dublin to walk around the town...crazy !!

rebel456

voz es wrote: »

Now that is not true, I have many friends in Tuam, have worked in Tuam and have family in tuam. Canneys name is strong. Mind word around from what I have heard is people are asking how many people of the 600 walkers were actually from tuam?

A few were likely from afar, but if the majority were not local then there would be commentary on such. If 600 random folks showed up to my local town it would be a major local story. But of course that is not so in Tuam, the local newspaper makes no mention of an influx of 'foreigners': http://www.tuamherald.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/06/28/4142302-greenway-trial-was-massive-boost-for-campaign/

In fact it even goes on to say...

Organisers said it was astonishing to see the crowds involved with all groups represented including schools, sporting clubs, business people, clergy and community organisations.

eastwest

voz es wrote: »

Now that is not true, I have many friends in Tuam, have worked in Tuam and have family in tuam. Canneys name is strong. Mind word around from what I have heard is people are asking how many people of the 600 walkers were actually from tuam?

That's some of the most amateur spinning I've seen in a while, ranks along with Enda Kenny's 'a man I met on the way in here'.
From 'what you have heard' maybe those people 'who are asking' would like to look at the video and identify the 'foreigners' who took part in the march?
Or you could go back and put this post on Bebo.

end of the road

rebel456 wrote: »

A few were likely from afar, but if the majority were not local then there would be commentary on such. If 600 random folks showed up to my local town it would be a major local story. But of course that is not so in Tuam, the local newspaper makes no mention of an influx of 'foreigners': http://www.tuamherald.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/06/28/4142302-greenway-trial-was-massive-boost-for-campaign/

In fact it even goes on to say...

meaningless in terms of voz es's post though. no doubt some locals did turn out but i wouldn't be surprised if there were a decent contingent from afar as well.