Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

eastwest

alias no.9 wrote: »

The former sugar industry in Ireland was heavily dependent on rail freight to bring coal from the ports and sugar beet from all over to 4 main processing centres, Tuam on the WRC route and no longer served by rail, Mallow, Thurles and Carlow, all still on mainline rail.

Replacement industry has been scarce. In the still rail connected areas, Thurles lost its other big factory Erin Foods which is now just a giant eyesore while Carlow gained MSD but also lost Braun. Mallow has no significant new industry. Rail connectivity has offered zero to any of the locations in terms of attracting industry but maybe the west is different and would become an industrial powerhouse if the WRC could only be reopened.

On the surface, rail has aided the transformation of Mallow into a dormitory town for Cork city, Carlow fulfills that role to a somewhat lesser degree for Dublin while Thurles has a surprising number of commuters going both directions by rail despite the distance. But what of Tuam, deprived of its railway? It has also been transformed into a dormitory town for Galway, the public transport element just happens to be bus.

The presence or not of mainline rail in these towns has not made a material difference in attracting new industry and hasn't changed the macro trend of large scale employment opportunities drifting towards larger population centres.

There are countless sites all across the country adjacent to operational railway and close to ports, none of them are attracting industry dependent on rail freight. Building another railway in the hope of attracting such industry is futile. If trends change over time, then this should be reassessed but right now it's utterly pointless.

What should be considered in the west is a masterplan for public transport in Galway including some form of light rail or rapid transit, one that enables further growth in population and in employment without strangling the place even further and ideally alleviate some of the current mess. This in turn can enable employment opportunities in the regional towns for SME's providing goods and services to both the large employers in Galway and to the retail and service economy within the city.

That's all logical and reasonable, but neither logic nor reason informs much of the pro rail campaign, or more particularly, the opposition by the pro rail campaign to.an interim use of the route to create jobs and to protect the route.
There are shades of the wild west on the whole thing; build that there railroad and folks will move here from back east, building saloons and general stores and bringing dancing girls.
It hasn't worked for Gort.

Del.Monte

Happy Christmas to all the Greenway supporters especially westtip.

Enjoy! Rebirth of the railway can't be far away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEfx5T3G4NQ

Hugh Jampton

According to The Economist Christmas Quiz, the EU country with the highest proportion of government spending as a percentage of GDP is Finland at 58%.

The average percentage in the EU is 46.6%.

Ireland’s percentage is the lowest in the EU at 28%.

Interesting that. It does shed light on the zero-sum game that the Greenway versus Railway argument has become.

Wagon360

eastwest wrote: »

That's all logical and reasonable, but neither logic nor reason informs much of the pro rail campaign, or more particularly, the opposition by the pro rail campaign to.an interim use of the route to create jobs and to protect the route.
There are shades of the wild west on the whole thing; build that there railroad and folks will move here from back east, building saloons and general stores and bringing dancing girls.
It hasn't worked for Gort.

So the word from a Greenway campaigner is “But neither logic or reason informs most of the pro rail campaign”. Well, it’s hardly surprising no one trusts the word of those who claim their proposed tenure of the line would be temporary. That lack of trust and indeed respect for the Greenway campaign is down to frankly bizarre statements like these. As we can clearly see tonight the Greenway campaigners constantly show how mean, nasty and vicious they are. I feel sorry for genuine campaigners like Muckyboots who while I don’t agree with his views I do respect him for galvanising his community into action. But one word of warning, with friends like these...

rebel456

Wagon360 wrote: »

So the word from a Greenway campaigner is “But neither logic or reason informs most of the pro rail campaign”. Well, it’s hardly surprising no one trusts the word of those who claim their proposed tenure of the line would be temporary. That lack of trust and indeed respect for the Greenway campaign is down to frankly bizarre statements like these. As we can clearly see tonight the Greenway campaigners constantly show how mean, nasty and vicious they are. I feel sorry for genuine campaigners like Muckyboots who while I don’t agree with his views I do respect him for galvanising his community into action. But one word of warning, with friends like these...

If I'd a dollar for every time a pro-rail poster labeled the Greenway campaign(ers) as "mean" or "nasty" or "vicious". I'd be a very rich man.

Wagon360

rebel456 wrote: »

If I'd a dollar for every time a pro-rail poster labeled the Greenway campaign(ers) as "mean" or "nasty" or "vicious". I'd be a very rich man.

If had a cent for every time a pro Greenway poster attacked the pro rail campaigners I would be very rich indeed!

rebel456

Wagon360 wrote: »

If had a cent for every time a pro Greenway poster attacked the pro rail campaigners I would be very rich indeed!

Usually one resorts to playing the victim to criticisms of their viewpoint when they have nothing of value to retort with.

JCX BXC

Del.Monte wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEfx5T3G4NQ

Great footage, had been looking for something like it a while back but nothing was in the public domain (at least not from my searches).

Del.Monte

Del.Monte wrote: »

Happy Christmas to all the Greenway supporters especially westtip.

Enjoy! Rebirth of the railway can't be far away.

They must have sent out a weed clearing crew out first, when was the final inspection train run, as it's clear that it would have been impossible in more recent years.

JCX BXC

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They must have sent out a weed clearing crew out first, when was the final inspection train run, as it's clear that it would have been impossible in more recent years.

Did you notice the reverse and gather of momentum in order to make it through the level crossing in Claremorris?

JCX BXC

JCX BXC wrote: »

Did you notice the reverse and gather of momentum in order to make it through the level crossing in Claremorris?

Yes that first section didn't look like it was cleared, but along the remainder of the track you can see where someone has cut overhanging branches and cleaned the track at the level crossings etc

JCX BXC

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes that first section didn't look like it was cleared, but along the remainder of the track you can see where someone has cut overhanging branches and cleaned the track at the level crossings etc

Could well have just been buckled track at that location!

When did the weed spaying stop? 2002/2003 iirc?

westtip

Wagon360 wrote: »

So the word from a Greenway campaigner is “But neither logic or reason informs most of the pro rail campaign”. Well, it’s hardly surprising no one trusts the word of those who claim their proposed tenure of the line would be temporary. That lack of trust and indeed respect for the Greenway campaign is down to frankly bizarre statements like these. As we can clearly see tonight the Greenway campaigners constantly show how mean, nasty and vicious they are. I feel sorry for genuine campaigners like Muckyboots who while I don’t agree with his views I do respect him for galvanising his community into action. But one word of warning, with friends like these...

My dear chap, seasons greetings, I suggest another glass of port in the meantime accept a few hardtruths we have not got the money for this fantasy project, tootle pip.

Wagon360

Hugh Jampton wrote: »

According to The Economist Christmas Quiz, the EU country with the highest proportion of government spending as a percentage of GDP is Finland at 58%.

The average percentage in the EU is 46.6%.

Ireland’s percentage is the lowest in the EU at 28%.

Interesting that. It does shed light on the zero-sum game that the Greenway versus Railway argument has become.

It's really no surprise that the infrastructure spend by the Irish Government is very small compared to other EU countries. That's why Galway traffic is in a mess and our public transport system is creaking as a whole.

Wagon360

westtip wrote: »

My dear chap, seasons greetings, I suggest another glass of port in the meantime accept a few hardtruths we have not got the money for this fantasy project, tootle pip.

Happy Christmas westtip, hope all is well and you have a pleasant time over the holiday season.

westtip

Del.Monte wrote: »

Happy Christmas to all the Greenway supporters especially westtip. Great promo film for the velorail crowd in KIltimagh

Consonata

Wagon360 wrote: »

It's really no surprise that the infrastructure spend by the Irish Government is very small compared to other EU countries. That's why Galway traffic is in a mess and our public transport system is creaking as a whole.

Galway could be fixed by light rail, but we're centuries away from that in the current political climate

monument

You can all take a break for Christmas! Report this post after the new year if I haven’t it reopened by then.

Some of you on BOTH sides need to improve your posting — and when reporting posts please keep to the basics (ie, I think this breaking the rules for x reasons) and that’ll help us act (it’s not a place for venting about perceived biases when you’re carding both sides).

For clarity: posters on both sides have been given warning or infractions tonight (disruptive posts only including disruption and/or which has not been replied to were deleted).

Note: there will be bans if people don’t cop on.

Happy Christmas all!

monument

Thread opened again -- posters should not need further warnings here... any messing and bans will be given out.

westtip

More bus lanes for Tuam to Galway means less liklihood of demands for railways not needed: (oh except for industrial waste to trundle through Tuam on them there freight trains)

http://www.tuamherald.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/12/20/4149942-councils-to-discuss-tuam-road-bus-lanes-in-january/

marno21

westtip wrote: »

More bus lanes for Tuam to Galway means less liklihood of demands for railways not needed: (oh except for industrial waste to trundle through Tuam on them there freight trains)

http://www.tuamherald.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/12/20/4149942-councils-to-discuss-tuam-road-bus-lanes-in-january/

It's high time that a QBC was created on the old N17 into Galway. There is no need for two Tuam-Galway roads dedicated entirely to cars

end of the road

westtip wrote: »

More bus lanes for Tuam to Galway means less liklihood of demands for railways not needed

not true, rail and light rail when done properly have a proven track record of attracting greater usage then busses ever could. while yes we know ireland's intercity bus market is doing well it really is an anomaly from what i can find and i couldn't see the trend being bucked on galway local routes and bus lanes attracting a huge shift to bus services. that's not to say they should never be built, but ultimately a light rail solution is the better and most attractive solution. give it traffic priority and implement a congestion charge and galway could be what dublin could have been (and still could be if there was political will) a fully public transport and pedestrian friendly city.

Quackster

Spent the last few days in Dungarvan. The town was hopping. I was there to finally try out the new greenway - I cycled to Waterford with a rental bike from one of the local companies that have popped up on the back of this new infrastructure.

I must say that it surpassed all my expectations. The work was done to a very high standard and the patronage I observed while I was using it was excellent all among its length.

From what I observed and from talking to locals in Dungarvan and Kilmacthomas, this is having an enormous economic benefit and the clamour is on now to extend it both eastwards and westwards.

As more greenways open, the body of evidence in support of their benefits to their communities just keeps growing and I've absolutely no doubt that we'll see progress on the Western Rail Trail sooner rather than later.

Wagon360

Quackster wrote: »

Spent the last few days in Dungarvan. The town was hopping. I was there to finally try out the new greenway - I cycled to Waterford with a rental bike from one of the local companies that have popped up on the back of this new infrastructure.

I must say that it surpassed all my expectations. The work was done to a very high standard and the patronage I observed while I was using it was excellent all among its length.

From what I observed and from talking to locals in Dungarvan and Kilmacthomas, this is having an enormous economic benefit and the clamour is on now to extend it both eastwards and westwards.

As more greenways open, the body of evidence in support of their benefits to their communities just keeps growing and I've absolutely no doubt that we'll see progress on the Western Rail Trail sooner rather than later.

I’m certainly for a Western Rail Trail. Having taken part in two long distance cycle rides in past two years along North Donegal and the west coast I can see that Ireland would greatly benefit from adding a Greenway to the Wild Atlantic Way. The Western Rail Trail on the Wild Atlantic Way could connect the railheads at Derry, Sligo, Ballina, Westport, Clifden (for the Galway-Clifden route), Limerick via the West Clare coast, Tralee, Valentia and onwards to Cork, all along the coast without the need to rip up a single inch of rail; instead making the most of the rail connections of the West to get tourists to the trail.

Imagine if we could take a safe cycle route all the way from Muff to Mizen. Cyclists would be rewarded with spectacular scenery and a safe route.

The time for the Wild Atlantic Greenway has come. Let’s start to make it a reality.

Stephen15

Quackster wrote: »

Spent the last few days in Dungarvan. The town was hopping. I was there to finally try out the new greenway - I cycled to Waterford with a rental bike from one of the local companies that have popped up on the back of this new infrastructure.

I must say that it surpassed all my expectations. The work was done to a very high standard and the patronage I observed while I was using it was excellent all among its length.

From what I observed and from talking to locals in Dungarvan and Kilmacthomas, this is having an enormous economic benefit and the clamour is on now to extend it both eastwards and westwards.

As more greenways open, the body of evidence in support of their benefits to their communities just keeps growing and I've absolutely no doubt that we'll see progress on the Western Rail Trail sooner rather than later.

I'm surprised it was so busy I would have thought it was more of a summertime pursuit when the weather is better and the evenings are longer. I did it last summer and I must say I really enjoyed it I must say but I found the scenery around Dungarvan and Kilmacthomas very nice, the only about extending it to other ex railway lines is that they are not all as scenic or picturesque as the Waterford line for example I know people who did the Killing at to Athlone Rail Trail and they said it was crap as the scenery was dull and boring.

Generally the scenery in the West and Midlands is fairly dull and boring I can't speak for all disused lines but I think a greenway would only do well in parts of the country that are picturesque perhaps by the sea as that's where most of the nice scenery and nice towns are.

eastwest

Stephen15 wrote: »

I'm surprised it was so busy I would have thought it was more of a summertime pursuit when the weather is better and the evenings are longer. I did it last summer and I must say I really enjoyed it I must say but I found the scenery around Dungarvan and Kilmacthomas very nice, the only about extending it to other ex railway lines is that they are not all as scenic or picturesque as the Waterford line for example I know people who did the Killing at to Athlone Rail Trail and they said it was crap as the scenery was dull and boring.

Generally the scenery in the West and Midlands is fairly dull and boring I can't speak for all disused lines but I think a greenway would only do well in parts of the country that are picturesque perhaps by the sea as that's where most of the nice scenery and nice towns are.

'Scenery" isn't just mountains and lakes, it's open countryside devoid of ribbon development, it's bogs and forests and rural scenes. It's castles and hills and even old railway infrastructure. It's hedgerows and wildlife.
Most of all, however, greenways are about safe places to cycle and walk away from traffic. Go to kilmacthomas this week and see for yourself.

westtip

Stephen15 wrote: »

Generally the scenery in the West and Midlands is fairly dull and boring I can't speak for all disused lines but I think a greenway would only do well in parts of the country that are picturesque perhaps by the sea as that's where most of the nice scenery and nice towns are.

The old "scenery argument" was actually used by West on Track in a submission made on the Mayo county plan three years ago; strange really as West on Track have been vocal in supporting the velo-rail option for the closed railway when it passes through Kiltimagh; where the track goes through little but bogland and in truth the scenery is not the most exciting, so don't think the tourists will be flocking for the scenery on that section of the closed railway. In sligo I think sligo greenway co-op may have a different view on scenery as the railway passes the base of the ox mountains, and as it moves towards Mayo fine views toward Nephin and Croagh Patrick, take a look here http://www.sligogreenway.com/ the real issue though is not breathtaking scenery on every stretch of the way it is being able to get on a bike in Dublin and cycle to Sligo via Dublin Galway Greenway and turning north onto the Western Rail Trail at Athenry without encountering a single car, truck or bus, with the option of course to swing west towards Westport and the Great Western Greenway if it can be connected to the Western Rail Trail in and around Charlestown..... Cycling or just strolling along in pure safety. oh and getting off for a pint a steak and a nights rest every evening spending tourist euros dollars and pounds in places like Tuam Tubbercurry Charlestown Kiltimagh etc that simply see the tourists driving through normally. That is the economic benefit of the long distance greenways, spreading the tourist euro to places that will benefit most, rural town regeneration..... there have been enough reports written about it. Hey ho happy new year the message remains the same. Here is to 2018 folks

eastwest

Quackster wrote: »

Spent the last few days in Dungarvan. The town was hopping. I was there to finally try out the new greenway - I cycled to Waterford with a rental bike from one of the local companies that have popped up on the back of this new infrastructure.

I must say that it surpassed all my expectations. The work was done to a very high standard and the patronage I observed while I was using it was excellent all among its length.

From what I observed and from talking to locals in Dungarvan and Kilmacthomas, this is having an enormous economic benefit and the clamour is on now to extend it both eastwards and westwards.

As more greenways open, the body of evidence in support of their benefits to their communities just keeps growing and I've absolutely no doubt that we'll see progress on the Western Rail Trail sooner rather than later.

It will be extended to Dublin over the next couple of years. The west, as usual, is asleep.

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/home/229739/73-in-favour-of-barrow-tow-path-in-www-kilkennypeople-ie-online-poll.html

Hugh Jampton

eastwest wrote: »

It will be extended to Dublin over the next couple of years. The west, as usual, is asleep.

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/home/229739/73-in-favour-of-barrow-tow-path-in-www-kilkennypeople-ie-online-poll.html

An unfortunate example.

http://savethebarrowline.com/

https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/travel/2016/0108/758687-controversy-comes-to-a-tranquil-and-beautiful-walkway/

end of the road

Hugh Jampton wrote: »

An unfortunate example.

http://savethebarrowline.com/

https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/travel/2016/0108/758687-controversy-comes-to-a-tranquil-and-beautiful-walkway/

indeed. hopefully the campaigners wishing to retain the path as it is win their fight.