Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

Quackster

end of the road wrote: »

indeed. hopefully the campaigners wishing to retain the path as it is win their fight.

It saddens me to see these campaigners falling back on the usual lazy anti-cyclist nonsense. On my trip on the Waterford Greenway at the weekend, I witnessed pedestrians and cyclists of all ages and abilities enjoying the amenity in a courteous and responsible manner.

There are legitimate environmental arguments though and the simple 'if it ain't broke, why change it' (not every off-road path needs to be shared use). I would much prefer to see new greenways laid along routes that aren't currently open to the public (eg disused rail lines) rather than creating unnecessary conflict with proposals such as this.

eastwest

Hugh Jampton wrote: »

An unfortunate example.

http://savethebarrowline.com/

https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/travel/2016/0108/758687-controversy-comes-to-a-tranquil-and-beautiful-walkway/

Yes, the anti greenway campaigners might be small in number, but they are vocal.
Thankfully, in the case of the Barrow, their rants look like they won't be heard.
Hopefully common sense will prevail in the west too, before everywhere else has hoovered up the funding.

Muckyboots

end of the road wrote: »

indeed. hopefully the campaigners wishing to retain the path as it is win their fight.

And I presume you also support the campaigners with this too? -
"If the authorities want to provide a hard surface cycle track, why not use our own old railway. The Palace East Line is still there though in a piece of cultural vandalism Carlow VEC allowed Borris Community School to make a break in the embankment in Borris. But have now built on it-but there are ways around that."

http://savethebarrowline.com/meeting/default.html

westtip

I just wondered what the original state of the Barrow towpath was, I am guessing it was a cinder hard path at the time it was actually used as a towpath and has only become a grassy path since the tow path in the true sense of the words, went out of existence. Not a lot to do with the closed western rail corridor though and it seems entrenched views are leading to stalemate on this one.

eastwest

end of the road wrote: »

indeed. hopefully the campaigners wishing to retain the path as it is win their fight.

The towpath has become overgrown from lack of use and damage by flooding over the years. Waterways Ireland proposes to resurface a strip.of it to allow cyclists, wheelchair users, walkers and families to access the old towpath safely and in comfort.
The small number who oppose this worthy initiative are being whipped up.by an even smaller number with vested interests [snipped]

end of the road

Quackster wrote: »

It saddens me to see these campaigners falling back on the usual lazy anti-cyclist nonsense. On my trip on the Waterford Greenway at the weekend, I witnessed pedestrians and cyclists of all ages and abilities enjoying the amenity in a courteous and responsible manner.

There are legitimate environmental arguments though and the simple 'if it ain't broke, why change it' (not every off-road path needs to be shared use). I would much prefer to see new greenways laid along routes that aren't currently open to the public (eg disused rail lines) rather than creating unnecessary conflict with proposals such as this.

i didn't see any "lazy anti-cyclist nonsense" in the links myself. realistically we don't need to be laying greenways all over the shop, there is not enough demand. a long distance one taking in the places of sceenic beauty around the country is enough really.

eastwest wrote: »

The towpath has become overgrown from lack of use and damage by flooding over the years. Waterways Ireland proposes to resurface a strip.of it to allow cyclists, wheelchair users, walkers and families to access the old towpath safely and in comfort.
The small number who oppose this worthy initiative are being whipped up.by an even smaller number with vested interests [snipped]

cyclists, wheelchairs and families are already using the path with no issue. the only vested interests are those who want to insure this path remains unspoiled

serfboard

end of the road wrote: »

the only vested interests are those who want to insure this path remains unspoiled

From the RTE article that was quoted:

Olivia OLeary wrote:

Step out on the grassy way which is the Barrow towpath and you have stepped into another world. You can walk along the river for miles without hearing a car or a lorry. You can’t even hear the sound of your own footsteps. You’ll hear the birds; the rush of the weirs; the wind in the trees. And little by little you’ll let go of your worries because the river has cast its spell.

There are fewer and fewer places in the world today which are quiet

With her repeated emphasis on quietness, it sounds to me like Olivia doesn't want her quiet walk to be spoiled by masses of the great unwashed and their noisy kids out enjoying the fresh air on their bikes - [snipped].

There's plenty of walks in Ireland which will never be Greenways and to which she can go.

end of the road

serfboard wrote: »

From the RTE article that was quoted:

With her repeated emphasis on quietness, it sounds to me like Olivia doesn't want her quiet walk to be spoiled by masses of the great unwashed and their noisy kids out enjoying the fresh air on their bikes - in other words, [snipped].
There's plenty of walks in Ireland which will never be Greenways and to which she can go.

there are even more places for cyclists and people with children to go. she wants to keep an unspoiled walkway as just that, [snipped]. a good number agree with that viewpoint it seems.

Stephen15

eastwest wrote: »

'Scenery" isn't just mountains and lakes, it's open countryside devoid of ribbon development, it's bogs and forests and rural scenes. It's castles and hills and even old railway infrastructure. It's hedgerows and wildlife.
Most of all, however, greenways are about safe places to cycle and walk away from traffic. Go to kilmacthomas this week and see for yourself.

I was there but if you want to attract tourists you need scenery and nice towns and villages for people to stop in which is something the Waterford Greenway has and the Tuam line doesn't for locals fair enough but a Greenway in the barren countryside of the West of Ireland isn't going to attract very many tourists. Waterford always attracted tourists as the scenery is picturesque, the area is nice etc. the Greenway has only boosted this even more Tuam does not attract tourists because it's not.

eastwest

end of the road wrote: »

there are even more places for cyclists and people with children to go. she wants to keep an unspoiled walkway as just that, nothing to do with being snobby. a good number agree with that viewpoint it seems.

Three out of four people locally disagree with her views.
Nobody wants to spoil this old towpath, they just want it resurfaced and not even over its full width. While it is passable in dry weather in the vicinity of her holiday home, it is in a bad state nearer to Carlow.
The key to this issue, and where it is important in the context of the Western Rail trail, is connectivity. The Barrow footpath is connected to the grand canal way by the grand canal.branch from lowtown to athy, and there are plans to resurface all.of these paths. The grand canal way is fully surfaced from Dublin city centre to the outskirts of the city, so at a stroke you coukd have a cycleway and walkway from Dublin to St Mullins. Waterford council.is already looking to extend the deise greenway back towards new ross, and locals in south carlow are looking at joining the dots to provide a Dublin dungarvan greenway.
This would give Ireland a piece of tourism infrastructure that would bring great benefits to all the places on the route, apart from local amenities. In the same way, the Dublin Galway greenway coukd be tapped into at athenry to feed tourists into dying towns along the closed eyesore that is the wrc. By completing the project of the sligo leitrim and Northern counties greenway to Enniskillen a conduit coukd be provided to bring tourists from NI to the west.
Or we could listen to false promises, like we've been doing for years. And if spoofer politicians ever managed to deliver their fantasy railway, we'd still own the land.
But maybe some of them don't want the land to remain in public ownership, which would explain why they oppose the greenway?

Stephen15

end of the road wrote: »

there are even more places for cyclists and people with children to go. she wants to keep an unspoiled walkway as just that, nothing to do with being snobby. a good number agree with that viewpoint it seems.

Agreed I walked that only last year and I have to say the countryside was beautiful having a tarmac path would only take away from this. It's almost like saying the Wicklow mountains should be tarmacked or The Bray Head Cliff Walk should be tarmacked these areas have their own natural beauty and that beauty is tranquil picturesque countryside.

Hugh Jampton

Stephen15 wrote: »

Agreed I walked that only last year and I have to say the countryside was beautiful having a tarmac path would only take away from this. It's almost like saying the Wicklow mountains should be tarmacked or The Bray Head Cliff Walk should be tarmacked these areas have their own natural beauty and that beauty is tranquil picturesque countryside.

[HUMOUR]

I can see a Ross O'Carroll Kelly type-business springing up -

TARMAC FOCKIN' EVERYTHING!

[/HUMOUR]

Muckyboots

Stephen15 wrote: »

Waterford always attracted tourists as the scenery is picturesque, the area is nice etc. the Greenway has only boosted this even more Tuam does not attract tourists because it's not.

40 years ago German cycling tourists were a regular sight in around Tuam. If you are old enough you'd remember this. The local joke was that "they were probably lost". The truth is that they were very deliberately off the beaten tourist track and were happy to soak up all forms of Irish culture. This would include writers, music, rural farming practices, ecclesiastical sites and travelling culture. Yes, these are all in situ in and around Tuam and Athenry.
That boring Old Rail Trail from Moate to Athlone, that some of your friends didn't like too much, attracted 400,000 visitors in its first full year of operation with a fraction of the razzmatazz connected with Waterford. This is transformational stuff for any location. The actual outcome may be relative but certainly not insubstantial in any case.

alias no.9

Stephen15 wrote: »

I was there but if you want to attract tourists you need scenery and nice towns and villages for people to stop in which is something the Waterford Greenway has and the Tuam line doesn't for locals fair enough but a Greenway in the barren countryside of the West of Ireland isn't going to attract very many tourists. Waterford always attracted tourists as the scenery is picturesque, the area is nice etc. the Greenway has only boosted this even more Tuam does not attract tourists because it's not.

I doubt too many people had heard of Kilmacthomas, never mind had it on a list of places to visit, stay, eat or drink before the Greenway opened. Dungarvan wouldn't have been prime tourist territory either despite being on the coast. Dungarvan has a lot of parallels with Tuam as the biggest town in a county with a small City, an old market town that's seen some hard times.

There's a really nice cadence in the positioning of the towns and villages along the old railway north of Tuam in particular where you have Tuam to Miltown, Kiltimagh to Swinford, Swinford to Charlestown, Charlestown to Tobercurry having distances of 10 to 12 km between them, ideal for an afternoon a two hour(ish) walk chill for a half an hour with a drink or a light snack and two hours back, no need to faff about arranging pickups or drop offs.

Claremorris to Kiltimagh is a bit too far for an afternoon return jaunt, the distance tips you over the edge into a bit of an all day thing, similar for Miltown to Claremorris but that has the advantage of having Ballindine splitting the difference giving the option of two shorter walks of less than 90 minutes each way. All of those places have enough charm to tempt a walker or cyclist to stop for a while.

Athenry and Tuam are too far apart for daytripping walkers doing a return journey and has no natural staging post in between but given the often overlooked heritage in Athenry and the potential to connect to the Dublin Galway Greenway, it would be foolish to miss out on that stretch.

Walking and cycling make these places destinations or at the very least, staging posts, tourists attract tourists, they create a buzz and make a place more attractive. If there ever was a build it and they will come, its for a Greenway.

westtip

serfboard wrote: »

From the RTE article that was quoted:

With her repeated emphasis on quietness, it sounds to me like Olivia doesn't want her quiet walk to be spoiled by masses of the great unwashed and their noisy kids out enjoying the fresh air on their bikes - in other words, pure aul' snobbery.

There's plenty of walks in Ireland which will never be Greenways and to which she can go.

I think Ms O'leary is the kind of person who looks down on folk who have bangers and mash with baked beans and gravy poured all over for dinner; ( try it its marvelous) indeed the great unwashed will pedal past her conservatory and ruin the view as she sips a gin n tonic of a summers evening cursing how long it took to "get out of Dublin" on a friday afternoon in order to escape to the country...Recordings of Ms O'leary's broadcasts should be put on the HSE prescribed drugs lists for people with sleeping problems, her pontificating dulcet tones telling us all how we should lead our lives are a great way of nodding off. Because she is so opposed to the Barrow greenway is the very reason I support it!

Wagon360

westtip wrote: »

I think Ms O'leary is the kind of person who looks down on folk who have bangers and mash with baked beans and gravy poured all over for dinner; ( try it its marvelous) indeed the great unwashed will pedal past her conservatory and ruin the view as she sips a gin n tonic of a summers evening cursing how long it took to "get out of Dublin" on a friday afternoon in order to escape to the country...Recordings of Ms O'leary's broadcasts should be put on the HSE prescribed drugs lists for people with sleeping problems, her pontificating dulcet tones telling us all how we should lead our lives are a great way of nodding off. Because she is so opposed to the Barrow greenway is the very reason I support it!

Jesus lads that’s some rant. I thought eastwests was bad enough! I’d love to see what you boys would write about someone you really hate!

eastwest

Stephen15 wrote: »

Agreed I walked that only last year and I have to say the countryside was beautiful having a tarmac path would only take away from this. It's almost like saying the Wicklow mountains should be tarmacked or The Bray Head Cliff Walk should be tarmacked these areas have their own natural beauty and that beauty is tranquil picturesque countryside.

The proposal for the bit that infringes on the vicinity of olivia's holiday home doesn't include tarmac.

eastwest

westtip wrote: »

I think Ms O'leary is the kind of person who looks down on folk who have bangers and mash with baked beans and gravy poured all over for dinner; ( try it its marvelous) indeed the great unwashed will pedal past her conservatory and ruin the view as she sips a gin n tonic of a summers evening cursing how long it took to "get out of Dublin" on a friday afternoon in order to escape to the country...Recordings of Ms O'leary's broadcasts should be put on the HSE prescribed drugs lists for people with sleeping problems, her pontificating dulcet tones telling us all how we should lead our lives are a great way of nodding off. Because she is so opposed to the Barrow greenway is the very reason I support it!

I'm not too mad about gravy either.

eastwest

westtip wrote: »

I think Ms O'leary is the kind of person who looks down on folk who have bangers and mash with baked beans and gravy poured all over for dinner; ( try it its marvelous) indeed the great unwashed will pedal past her conservatory and ruin the view as she sips a gin n tonic of a summers evening cursing how long it took to "get out of Dublin" on a friday afternoon in order to escape to the country...Recordings of Ms O'leary's broadcasts should be put on the HSE prescribed drugs lists for people with sleeping problems, her pontificating dulcet tones telling us all how we should lead our lives are a great way of nodding off. Because she is so opposed to the Barrow greenway is the very reason I support it!

I'm not too mad about gravy either.

eastwest

end of the road wrote: »

i didn't see any "lazy anti-cyclist nonsense" in the links myself. realistically we don't need to be laying greenways all over the shop, there is not enough demand. a long distance one taking in the places of sceenic beauty around the country is enough really.

cyclists, wheelchairs and families are already using the path with no issue. the only vested interests are those who want to insure this path remains unspoiled

That's slightly at odds with the facts. Some sections are pretty much impassible after rain, and there is no way that a wheelchair user could access more than very short bits of it. Cycling the Barrow way could be done by a determined cyclist with a fat bike, but there would be a lot of walking and pushing involved.
I've walked it myself, and it's a great hike, but not accessible to most people

monument

Wagon360 banned for 24 hours for getting the rule book and jumping on it.

-- moderator

monument

westtip wrote: »

I think Ms O'leary is the kind of person who looks down on folk who have bangers and mash with baked beans and gravy poured all over for dinner; ( try it its marvelous) indeed the great unwashed will pedal past her conservatory and ruin the view as she sips a gin n tonic of a summers evening cursing how long it took to "get out of Dublin" on a friday afternoon in order to escape to the country...Recordings of Ms O'leary's broadcasts should be put on the HSE prescribed drugs lists for people with sleeping problems, her pontificating dulcet tones telling us all how we should lead our lives are a great way of nodding off. Because she is so opposed to the Barrow greenway is the very reason I support it!

On reflection also banned for a day -- there has been warning about rants like this before.

Public figures like O'Leary should be viewed as more open to criticism but there's a limit to that -- especially within the confines of staying on topic and constrictive posting.

-- moderator

eastwest

But to get back to the wrc, will this be the year that it is finally abandoned as a waste of effort and money? The much-leaked rail review apparently consigns it to the history books, so unless minister Ross wants to risk his dwindling reputation on meddling with the original draft, surely he can't sit on it forever? The report will have to see the light if day on 2018, and apparently Sean Canney has agreed to switch sides if it comes down against repeating the folly of ennis athenry.
So the only obstacle to the greenway this year will be the councillors, but enough of them will see safety in joining the herd once Canney jumps first.
Interesting months ahead!

Hugh Jampton

eastwest wrote: »

But to get back to the wrc, will this be the year that it is finally abandoned as a waste of effort and money? The much-leaked rail review apparently consigns it to the history books, so unless minister Ross wants to risk his dwindling reputation on meddling with the original draft, surely he can't sit on it forever? The report will have to see the light if day on 2018, and apparently Sean Canney has agreed to switch sides if it comes down against repeating the folly of ennis athenry.
So the only obstacle to the greenway this year will be the councillors, but enough of them will see safety in joining the herd once Canney jumps first.
Interesting months ahead!

But isn't it interesting that despite this thread alone running since 2009 the concept of running trains from at least Tuam connecting at Athenry to Galway, Limerick and Dublin hasn't been buried, yet.

Also, it would be fascinating to find out where the assertation made in the quoted post comes from. A DeValera-like look into the heart, perhaps?

eastwest

Hugh Jampton wrote: »

But isn't it interesting that despite this thread alone running since 2009 the concept of running trains from at least Tuam connecting at Athenry to Galway, Limerick and Dublin hasn't been buried, yet.

Also, it would be fascinating to find out where the assertation made in the quoted post comes from. A DeValera-like look into the heart, perhaps?

Yes, it's amazing how long a small but determined group can hold up progress. Look how well a couple of people did in sending the Apple jobs to Denmark too.

Hugh Jampton

eastwest wrote: »

Yes, it's amazing how long a small but determined group can hold up progress. Look how well a couple of people did in sending the Apple jobs to Denmark too.

In the meantime, over at the Barrow campaign..

http://savethebarrowline.com/news/default.html

eastwest

Hugh Jampton wrote: »

In the meantime, over at the Barrow campaign..

http://savethebarrowline.com/news/default.html

Exactly!
Save it from people.

serfboard

alias no.9 wrote: »

Athenry and Tuam are too far apart for daytripping walkers doing a return journey and has no natural staging post in between

What are you talking about man? It has Ballyglunin station as a very natural staging post in between, with the added benefit of it being a tourist attraction since it was used in the filming of The Quiet Man!

By way of reference, the old station house in Mulranny has been restored:

Mr Padraig Philbin, Head of Tourism Development and Infrastructure, Mayo County Council wrote:

The newly refurbished Railway Station House will serve as an Activity Services Centre for Greenway users. There will be bike hire facilities, tour guide services and a kite surfing centre located from that point. The local Rural Social Scheme who maintains the greenway, also known as the ‘Green Patrol’ will be based from there too, as well as the Dark Skies Community Group. There will also be toilet, shower and storage facilities with locker room facilities.

Hugh Jampton

eastwest wrote: »

Exactly!
Save it from people.

Save it from tarmac and hard core more like.

rebel456

rebel456 wrote: »

This notion of a 'hard core' is baffling

Hard core is material used in the construction of roads