Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

eastwest

Hugh Jampton wrote: »

And its post 9000 - :eek: (not my post 9000 though)

What do ye reckon will happen before post 9,999 and the lock?

As long as the spoofers get reelected, nothing needs to happen.

voz es

Have a read.... make your own opinions up readers don't listen to the noise, the west of the country needs a full north-south rail link.



https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/mbp554/want-to-fix-american-airports-build-a-better-train-network

Grandeeod

voz es wrote: »

Have a read.... make your own opinions up readers don't listen to the noise, the west of the country needs a full north-south rail link.



https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/mbp554/want-to-fix-american-airports-build-a-better-train-network

I think I preferred it when I was banned from here.:rolleyes:

eastwest

voz es wrote: »

Have a read.... make your own opinions up readers don't listen to the noise, the west of the country needs a full north-south rail link.



https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/mbp554/want-to-fix-american-airports-build-a-better-train-network

You have a point. Get the people off the sligo-Galway flights and on to trains, it's a whole market that has been overlooked.
Makes a lot more sense than building hospitals.

monument

Right -- that's enough... back on topic.

-- moderator

Wagon360

eastwest wrote: »

You have a point. Get the people off the sligo-Galway flights and on to trains, it's a whole market that has been overlooked.
Makes a lot more sense than building hospitals.

Run out of credible arguments then?

monument

westtip wrote: »

I think EASTWEST has actually touched on a quite brilliant idea - instead of the Western Rail Corridor The Western Air Corridor. With Cork. Kerry, Shannon, Galway, Knock, a re-opened Sligo, Donegal and Derry airports all linked by a daily commuter "hopper" flight, stopping at all airports along the route. There would of course be a feeder flight from the Aran Islands so folk can get from Inismor to Derry for a daily commute. - this idea would take all the Inismor Derry commuter traffic off the road forever. It would solve the WRC issue instantly - obviously with a Transatlantic international gateway hub to be built at one of the airports, naturally this would have to be as close to Claremorris as possible.....err Knock I guess.

Jaysus I have just realised the Atlantic Economic corridor has 8 Airports, those folks on the East Coast may be asking for balanced regional development soon.

WAC. Or maybe just Wacky. We must all make a submission to Ireland 2040 demanding this one now.

Is a two week ban enough?

— moderator

monument

The quality around here on both sides need to improve:

Wagon360 wrote: »

Run out of credible arguments then?

Maybe a better counter argument from yourself might not go a miss? ie explaining why the article linked to is a realistic prospect for the west coast, its villages and towns and its airports.

— moderator

Isambard

voz es wrote: »

Have a read.... make your own opinions up readers don't listen to the noise, the west of the country needs a full north-south rail link.



https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/mbp554/want-to-fix-american-airports-build-a-better-train-network

The west of the country needs , first of all, improved rail links with the east.

Wagon360

voz es wrote: »

Have a read.... make your own opinions up readers don't listen to the noise, the west of the country needs a full north-south rail link.



https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/mbp554/want-to-fix-american-airports-build-a-better-train-network

The Irish Railway Developments blog has published a good companion piece to this post.

See irishrailwaydevelopments.wordpress.com/2018/01/12/the-atlantic-economic-corridor-is-more-than-just-a-motorway/

eastwest

Wagon360 wrote: »

The Irish Railway Developments blog has published a good companion piece to this post.

See irishrailwaydevelopments.wordpress.com/2018/01/12/the-atlantic-economic-corridor-is-more-than-just-a-motorway/

The heavy guns are in now!
Irish Railway Developments will certainly have lots of influence on rail policy in Ireland, although it might involve signing their articles.

Muckyboots

Wagon360 wrote: »

The Irish Railway Developments blog has published a good companion piece to this post.

See irishrailwaydevelopments.wordpress.com/2018/01/12/the-atlantic-economic-corridor-is-more-than-just-a-motorway/

"Re-engineer Ireland" = Trumpism.

Back to reality - with David Franks, a "railwayman", heading out the CEO door at Irish Rail, would a new broom be lined up for a clean sweep and a quick exit?

Hugh Jampton

eastwest wrote: »

The heavy guns are in now!
Irish Railway Developments will certainly have lots of influence on rail policy in Ireland, although it might involve signing their articles.

Yeh, just like here!

Wagon360

Muckyboots wrote: »

"Re-engineer Ireland" = Trumpism.

Okay here's a dose of what "muckyboots" calls Trumpism. I'm hoping we can have a serious debate on the points raised.

The Atlantic Economic Corridor (AEC) was conceived as a joint project by several Chambers of Commerce in major towns in the west of Ireland. The AEC would link up Belfast to Cork along an arc running through Derry, Letterkenny, Sligo, Galway and Limerick. Along the way we have five major airports and major sea ports. Some may think it is merely a case of building a motorway between all of these cities and towns but the AEC is much more than that.

And some more on airport connections:

Our airports could be better served by non-road transport. All of Northern Ireland’s main airports, Belfast City, Belfast International and City of Derry all have railway lines running next to them. Rail services should stop at the airports to allow faster onward connections. Knock Airport and Shannon have nearby rail connections. These airports must have rail connections also, as this will encourage more passengers to use them. The National Transport Authority’s assessment that only the proposed Metro North railway is sufficient to meet Dublin Airport’s transport needs in the future is flawed; their Greater Dublin Area Transport Strategy does not take into account the wider national catchment of Dublin Airport. I welcome the words in the introduction to the NPF that a Heavy Rail option to Dublin Airport should also be considered. Bringing Heavy Rail as well as Metro North to Dublin Airport would transform Inter City rail services, as this would allow air passengers to take trains directly to and from Dublin Airport to any rail connected town or city in Ireland.

Source: https://irishrailwaydevelopments.wordpress.com/2018/01/12/the-atlantic-economic-corridor-is-more-than-just-a-motorway/

I guess we all await the outcome of the rail review with more than a passing interest. If the Government is going to do some joined up thinking then it makes more sense for the rail review to await the final National Planning Framework document. It is more than likely that we will see a heavily revised NPF document that will recognise the significance of regional railway lines and to make more of an effort to use railways as well as motorways. In that light I would expect to see the final NPF document followed by the Rail Review to be published.

What implications does this have for the Western Rail Corridor north of Athenry?

In my opinion, it's absolutely clear that the M17 motorway has not solved the issue of Tuam to Galway traffic. That particular issue will be relieved somewhat by adding a bus lane to the N17 but bus lanes will not encourage significant modal shift from cars.

In my view the following needs to happen;

The main railway line from Athenry to Galway should be doubled to allow more trains to occupy the lines. In addition a direct commuter service from Tuam via Athenry to Galway should be established. More stations should be built, particularly from Oranmore to Galway City at Merlin Park Hospital, Roscam and Ballyloughnane Strand. Park and Ride facilities should be provided at each railway station and a frequent service running at least every 20 minutes during the daytime should be provided. This would help partially relieve traffic into the city. The roundabouts on the main N4 road should be converted to gyratories with the main road underpassing. At the same time a BRT system should be put in place with a firm plan to convert that BRT to Tram in the near future. Tram systems should not be ruled out. Cycle sharing schemes and cycle parking should be put in place at railway stations and BRT/Tram stops.

North of Tuam the railway line should be rebuilt to Claremorris to allow freight from Ballina to travel down to Waterford and Foynes.

Further planning expansion should be made near to the railway line. This would ensure that the investment made in expanding the railway pays off.

Rawr

Here's an idea that's been mulling in my head a bit regarding the WRC, and Wagon's mention of a BRT has brought this idea back to me again.

What if the WRC was paved and re-opened as a BRT / Greenway?

The arguments against heavy-rail reopening on the WRC appear to be mostly down to an issue of cost vs. population vs. general usage of the space. There is a desire to still use the space for transport, while there is also a desire to open the alignment up for tourism / cycle commuting. Is it possible to have both in a cost-effective way?

Heavy rail is expensive. You need the population or industrial usage on the alignment to justify the continuous running cost of heavy rail infrastructure. There has been many statements here to indicate that these factors are just not present at the moment and attempts to re-open the line as heavy-rail would simply burn cash away (and possibly doom future public use of the alignment- depending on what happens after a closure).

Wagon indicates the need for improved public transport and airport links in the area. If so, could a BRT or other similar bus solution on the alignment fulfill those needs?


The crayons in my head imagine the current alignment being paved over, much like a green-way plan, but to a road standard that could maintain buses. Where possible, most of it would have 2-lanes to allow for passing buses, with a single-lane where needed at certain choak-points. In addition, green-way infrastructure / cycle-lanes could be added during construction.

The buses using the corridor could offer greater flexibility than rail, by deviating from the corridor at places to serve destination such as Knock Airport. The corridor would benefit by bypassing traffic, which is an advantage it would share with rail. Buses could terminate at Athenry to allow for connections.

This idea might allow for usage, both as transport & greenway, protect the alignment for possible future rail projects, and if the buses themselves do not succeed, the corridor could still be used as a greenway.

Anyway, this is just idea in my head, and not based on any solid research, but I wonder if it is a solution that would satisfy most parties? (ignoring the need for freight-rail)

eastwest

Rawr wrote: »

Here's an idea that's been mulling in my head a bit regarding the WRC, and Wagon's mention of a BRT has brought this idea back to me again.

What if the WRC was paved and re-opened as a BRT / Greenway?

The arguments against heavy-rail reopening on the WRC appear to be mostly down to an issue of cost vs. population vs. general usage of the space. There is a desire to still use the space for transport, while there is also a desire to open the alignment up for tourism / cycle commuting. Is it possible to have both in a cost-effective way?

Heavy rail is expensive. You need the population or industrial usage on the alignment to justify the continuous running cost of heavy rail infrastructure. There has been many statements here to indicate that these factors are just not present at the moment and attempts to re-open the line as heavy-rail would simply burn cash away (and possibly doom future public use of the alignment- depending on what happens after a closure).

Wagon indicates the need for improved public transport and airport links in the area. If so, could a BRT or other similar bus solution on the alignment fulfill those needs?


The crayons in my head imagine the current alignment being paved over, much like a green-way plan, but to a road standard that could maintain buses. Where possible, most of it would have 2-lanes to allow for passing buses, with a single-lane where needed at certain choak-points. In addition, green-way infrastructure / cycle-lanes could be added during construction.

The buses using the corridor could offer greater flexibility than rail, by deviating from the corridor at places to serve destination such as Knock Airport. The corridor would benefit by bypassing traffic, which is an advantage it would share with rail. Buses could terminate at Athenry to allow for connections.

This idea might allow for usage, both as transport & greenway, protect the alignment for possible future rail projects, and if the buses themselves do not succeed, the corridor could still be used as a greenway.

Anyway, this is just idea in my head, and not based on any solid research, but I wonder if it is a solution that would satisfy most parties? (ignoring the need for freight-rail)

Or they could spend the money upgrading the N17, which is the plan.

end of the road

Rawr wrote: »

Here's an idea that's been mulling in my head a bit regarding the WRC, and Wagon's mention of a BRT has brought this idea back to me again.

What if the WRC was paved and re-opened as a BRT / Greenway?

The arguments against heavy-rail reopening on the WRC appear to be mostly down to an issue of cost vs. population vs. general usage of the space. There is a desire to still use the space for transport, while there is also a desire to open the alignment up for tourism / cycle commuting. Is it possible to have both in a cost-effective way?

Heavy rail is expensive. You need the population or industrial usage on the alignment to justify the continuous running cost of heavy rail infrastructure. There has been many statements here to indicate that these factors are just not present at the moment and attempts to re-open the line as heavy-rail would simply burn cash away (and possibly doom future public use of the alignment- depending on what happens after a closure).

Wagon indicates the need for improved public transport and airport links in the area. If so, could a BRT or other similar bus solution on the alignment fulfill those needs?


The crayons in my head imagine the current alignment being paved over, much like a green-way plan, but to a road standard that could maintain buses. Where possible, most of it would have 2-lanes to allow for passing buses, with a single-lane where needed at certain choak-points. In addition, green-way infrastructure / cycle-lanes could be added during construction.

The buses using the corridor could offer greater flexibility than rail, by deviating from the corridor at places to serve destination such as Knock Airport. The corridor would benefit by bypassing traffic, which is an advantage it would share with rail. Buses could terminate at Athenry to allow for connections.

This idea might allow for usage, both as transport & greenway, protect the alignment for possible future rail projects, and if the buses themselves do not succeed, the corridor could still be used as a greenway.

Anyway, this is just idea in my head, and not based on any solid research, but I wonder if it is a solution that would satisfy most parties? (ignoring the need for freight-rail)

it would be a duplication of existing road infrastructure and would therefore be a waste of money. there is an already existing road for which busses can travel to cater to the demand for bus transport, which is likely not a huge demand to be honest.
realistically if any part of this corridor was to reopen, it would be to tuam and no further. i can see neither a greenway or railway happening.

Hugh Jampton

Rawr wrote: »

Here's an idea that's been mulling in my head a bit regarding the WRC, and Wagon's mention of a BRT has brought this idea back to me again.

What if the WRC was paved and re-opened as a BRT / Greenway?

The arguments against heavy-rail reopening on the WRC appear to be mostly down to an issue of cost vs. population vs. general usage of the space. There is a desire to still use the space for transport, while there is also a desire to open the alignment up for tourism / cycle commuting. Is it possible to have both in a cost-effective way?

Heavy rail is expensive. You need the population or industrial usage on the alignment to justify the continuous running cost of heavy rail infrastructure. There has been many statements here to indicate that these factors are just not present at the moment and attempts to re-open the line as heavy-rail would simply burn cash away (and possibly doom future public use of the alignment- depending on what happens after a closure).

Wagon indicates the need for improved public transport and airport links in the area. If so, could a BRT or other similar bus solution on the alignment fulfill those needs?


The crayons in my head imagine the current alignment being paved over, much like a green-way plan, but to a road standard that could maintain buses. Where possible, most of it would have 2-lanes to allow for passing buses, with a single-lane where needed at certain choak-points. In addition, green-way infrastructure / cycle-lanes could be added during construction.

The buses using the corridor could offer greater flexibility than rail, by deviating from the corridor at places to serve destination such as Knock Airport. The corridor would benefit by bypassing traffic, which is an advantage it would share with rail. Buses could terminate at Athenry to allow for connections.

This idea might allow for usage, both as transport & greenway, protect the alignment for possible future rail projects, and if the buses themselves do not succeed, the corridor could still be used as a greenway.

Anyway, this is just idea in my head, and not based on any solid research, but I wonder if it is a solution that would satisfy most parties? (ignoring the need for freight-rail)

Not a bad idea, but how about turning Tuam - Athenry ultimately into a Public Private Partnership, the State owns installs and maintains the track and the operator could be a company in the private sector. How about Burkes Bus as the operator? No harm in some alternative thinking after 9000 posts.

Muckyboots

Hugh Jampton wrote: »

Not a bad idea, but how about turning Tuam - Athenry ultimately into a Public Private Partnership, the State owns installs and maintains the track and the operator could be a company in the private sector. How about Burkes Bus as the operator? No harm in some alternative thinking after 9000 posts.

You could do this with a tarmaced WRC and licensed electric buses/ mini-buses, but as eastwest said earlier, why would someone like Burkes run a train or bus 17KM south to carry passengers who want to go West against their well-costed and established fleet that use the N83 and with plans of extending bus lanes.

Cycling is a legitimate means of transport.

eastwest

Hugh Jampton wrote: »

Not a bad idea, but how about turning Tuam - Athenry ultimately into a Public Private Partnership, the State owns installs and maintains the track and the operator could be a company in the private sector. How about Burkes Bus as the operator? No harm in some alternative thinking after 9000 posts.

Anything but a greenway, in other words.
The issue of privatising rail transport is a good one and I'm sure government would love to do it, but there are two little problems in the case of the wrc. Firstly there is zero possibility of capital funding for the railway in the next couple of decades. And secondly, no operator will contract to run a train on the wrc without a guarantee of heavy subsidy-- nobody is in business for the fun of it.
Unless the old westrail crew would like to do it for nothing, using scrap trains they restored themselves and using volunteer staff?

Hugh Jampton

Muckyboots wrote: »

You could do this with a tarmaced WRC and licensed electric buses/ mini-buses, but as eastwest said earlier, why would someone like Burkes run a train or bus 17KM south to carry passengers who want to go West against their well-costed and established fleet that use the N83 and with plans of extending bus lanes.

Cycling is a legitimate means of transport.

What’s the stats for commuting from Tuam to Galway by bicycle?

Wagon360

eastwest wrote: »

Anything but a greenway, in other words.
The issue of privatising rail transport is a good one and I'm sure government would love to do it, but there are two little problems in the case of the wrc. Firstly there is zero possibility of capital funding for the railway in the next couple of decades. And secondly, no operator will contract to run a train on the wrc without a guarantee of heavy subsidy-- nobody is in business for the fun of it.

You present no evidence for your assertion that there's zero possibility of funding for the railway in the next couple of decades. Also you deliberately distort how rail train operating contracts work.

Unless the old westrail crew would like to do it for nothing, using scrap trains they restored themselves and using volunteer staff?

Well that would be preferable to having the line ripped up...

Muckyboots

Hugh Jampton wrote: »

What’s the stats for commuting from Tuam to Galway by bicycle?

Don't know, but a few more than commute via rail and there is zero demand for rail demonstrated by Tuam people. If you don't believe me get a local rail enthusiast to call a public meeting in support of rail restoration for the town and count the numbers.

Quackster

Hugh Jampton wrote: »

What’s the stats for commuting from Tuam to Galway by bicycle?

:rolleyes:

Hugh Jampton

Quackster wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Well?

Quackster

Hugh Jampton wrote: »

Well?

It doesn't take a genius to come to the conclusion that there probably aren't many folk commuting from Tuam to Galway by bike!

Out of interest, would you accept the reopening of Athenry to Tuam (something I would support if a credible economic case were presented) and the conversion of the rest of the WRC north of Tuam into a greenway?

Hugh Jampton

Quackster wrote: »

It doesn't take a genius to come to the conclusion that there probably aren't many folk commuting from Tuam to Galway by bike!

Out of interest, would you accept the reopening of Athenry to Tuam (something I would support if a credible economic case were presented) and the conversion of the rest of the WRC north of Tuam into a greenway?

I think if Tuam - Athenry was reopened and linking to Galway, Limerick and Dublin it strengthens the case for freight south from Claremorris. I can’t see the quid-pro-quo you suggest as an option on anyone’s table, though.

Quackster

Hugh Jampton wrote: »

I think if Tuam - Athenry was reopened and linking to Galway, Limerick and Dublin it strengthens the case for freight south from Claremorris. I can’t see the quid-pro-quo you suggest as an option on anyone’s table, though.

That tells me all I need to know.

Hugh Jampton

Quackster wrote: »

That tells me all I need to know.

Happy to help

eastwest

Wagon360 wrote: »

Well that would be preferable to having the line ripped up...

The existing tracks would have to be removed (or 'ripped up' as they say in certain circles in Claremorris) if a railway was ever to be built north of Athenry.
All that greenway campaigners have suggested is for this 'ripping up' to be done now to facilitate a greenway. If someone comes up with the money at some time in the future, and it coincides with a valid business case, then we'll still own the asset.
It's called logic.