Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

Muckyboots

There is €100 million allocated for Greenways in the NPF 2040. Practically every cent of this will be spent on routes alongside canals and on, or alongside, disused railways, as per the Draft National Greenway Strategy. There will be absolute minimum CPO's as they waste money and the landowners don't want them.. Railway enthusiasts and canal bank privatisers will just have to suck it up for the betterment of society.

end of the road

Muckyboots wrote: »

There is €100 million allocated for Greenways in the NPF 2040. Practically every cent of this will be spent on routes alongside canals and on, or alongside, disused railways, as per the Draft National Greenway Strategy. There will be absolute minimum CPO's as they waste money and the landowners don't want them.. Railway enthusiasts and canal bank privatisers will just have to suck it up for the betterment of society.

thankfully as this is a democratic country, people won't have to "suck it up"

Muckyboots

end of the road wrote: »

thankfully as this is a democratic country, people won't have to "suck it up"

Listening to Barry Cowen talking on Saturday and knowing Micháel Martin's view on the WRC, your only hope of reversing this will be a SF majority Government.

westtip

end of the road wrote: »

thankfully as this is a democratic country, people won't have to "suck it up"

No it seems the majority will have to continue to suck it up and put up with more nonsense about the railway not needed, not wanted and won't happen, but as long as Canney can stop the greenway for his constituents in Claremorris that is all that matters. Bring on this report.

Grandeeod

westtip wrote: »

Ir does indeed concern me you may be right. But McCann happened when no one was challenging west on track, the whole thihg was a farce; they know now they are being challenged, they know what Varadkar thinks, what Donohoe thinks. This report may actually be the endgame, give Canney his report to crucify this project may actually be the double jeopardy being played here. One thing is for sure, they won't get away with another McCann, they know that we know that Varadkar knows that. we are barking and snapping at their heels.

WOT and the McCann report were challenged by Platform 11. They exposed at the time of the report that two different versions were handed out at the launch in Castlebar. McCann wrote off the northern section and made negative comments about the project in general. These aspects were removed (on the day) in a mad dash to rework the info being given out to visitors. WOT charged attendees for the day out, but the Dinner was nice. Enda Kenny and a lot of other eejits were there to.:D I wasn't an eejit. I was there to offer WOT a deal to make it all work. They refused.

Losty Dublin

Accidentally wrote: »

The cycle route may upset railway enthusiasts, but at least you won't find a pipeline or bungalow built across the line when you come to reinstate it.

Far easier to move a pipe or house than a whole pathway.

dok_golf

end of the road wrote: »

yes, let the cyclists have their greenway, on a different and likely more attractive route with more potential. if the cyclists had done that years ago they would probably have a greenway by now. what upgrades are planned north of milltown, and what justification is there for these upgrades? is there enough traffic to justify those upgrades?



sorry but i would have to disagree. if the greenway was successful, even if the numbers did stack up for a railway, the outcry over the removal of the greenway would be such that it would be politically impossible to facilitate and allow it's removal. CIE are owned by the state so in that situation, i believe it is likely they would be "asked" not to persue the issue. removing the greenway in sections and including the rebuilding of the greenway in the rail construction contract would put the price of the railway up quite a bit, so it's not an option. building it on the edge of the line now would absolutely make a greenway bid competitive, as even if it cost more, it would likely be a lower cost then your idea of tagging it onto the rail construction contract.



thousands of people supporting it is different to thousands actually using it. ireland has a long history of it's people supporting things but when it comes to actually doing, the numbers end up being very small. if these thousands of people support the idea so much, then why not find a more attractive route and get the funds together to help toards the build of the greenway, had you done that you would have had one years ago. as it stands, you are unlikely to get a greenway any time soon.



roads cars and busses are not the only game in town, the world has moved on since the 1960s when that idea was all the rage and didn't work. building for the future starts now, today.

The WRC being a prime example of this.

Accidentally

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Accidentally wrote: »

The cycle route may upset railway enthusiasts, but at least you won't find a pipeline or bungalow built across the line when you come to reinstate it.

Far easier to move a pipe or house than a whole pathway.

Okay, so you don't want cyclists using it, because you believe they'll never give it back.

What about the fact that it goes nowhere that anyone wants to go. I can't see a commuter boom between Tuam and Athenry coming any time soon. Do you really believe this is going to be a viable line for anything in the next 50 years.

Isambard

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Far easier to move a pipe or house than a whole pathway.

not so easy to move the people who have annexed parts of the trackbed,for various uses, lots of legal challenges there and easier for a cyclepath to go around them than a railway.

westtip

How many times do I have to put this photograph up on this thread, how many times we have to tell the railway campaigners that Irish Rail is not prepared to give up any route to anyone but is perfectly happy to have the route protected forever by a greenway until such times as a railway is possible, how many times do people who claim the "cyclists will stop a railway" need to be made to realise the cyclists won't own the greenway, Irish rail will, how many times do we greenway campaigners have to tell you that what is contained in this picture would be perfectly acceptable, but as the train is not coming anytime soon why can't the route be used for something useful now. suppose the Canney report is favourable for a railway to the extent that it might happen in 20 years time, do we have to put up and shut up? Is that democratic when thousands of people want this greenway to happen.

It has come down to one word> SPITE.

Try using the word imagine instead, the tracks have to come up regardless, build the greenway now and keep campaigning for the railway, but don't keep trying to stop what is achievable now.

cyling by the railway 1.jpg

westtip

Indo today totally unprompted comment from a Tuam businessman

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/in-five-or-six-years-there-will-be-no-businesses-left-were-all-in-trouble-the-irish-town-worrying-for-the-future-36617540.html

He said the town needed better amenities, such as a greenway along the old disused railway line - a sticking point for some who hold out hope that the rail corridor could reopen.

Somehow I think this whole Canney report thing is really going to galvanise people into action.

eastwest

westtip wrote: »

Indo today totally unprompted comment from a Tuam businessman

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/in-five-or-six-years-there-will-be-no-businesses-left-were-all-in-trouble-the-irish-town-worrying-for-the-future-36617540.html



Somehow I think this whole Canney report thing is really going to galvanise people into action.

Listening to Galway Bay FM this morning, the push back against WOT has started.https://galwaybayfm.ie/category/podcasts/

Harcourt Street

eastwest wrote: »

Listening to Galway Bay FM this morning, the push back against WOT has started.

The pushback against WOT and Western Development in general hasn't just started. It has been ongoing for many years. At times it's been very personal and vicious towards those of us who see the west as far more than just a tourist hinterland.

westtip

Just a reminder that the South East actually values tourist and appreciates being a tourist hinterland! In the meantime the people of Tuam can look forward to heavy rail freight - but not for another 30 years! going through the town

https://www.wexfordcoco.ie/community/recreational-and-community-development-projects/rosslare-to-waterford-city-greenway

eastwest

westtip wrote: »

Just a reminder that the South East actually values tourist and appreciates being a tourist hinterland! In the meantime the people of Tuam can look forward to heavy rail freight - but not for another 30 years! going through the town

https://www.wexfordcoco.ie/community/recreational-and-community-development-projects/rosslare-to-waterford-city-greenway

They have a very capable County Manager in Waterford, who was never a member of any 'railway appreciation' society. He is a guy who gets things done, and he will get this one done too. When it opens, we'll still be debating the merits of a greenway on the closed Athenry Colooney line.
Sean Kyne this morning on Galway Bay FM came up with a new excuse for not building a greenway from Athenry to Tuam. He said that the embankment was too high for bikes. He had better get down to Kilmacthomas quick and get the cyclists off the viaduct on the Deise Greenway!

end of the road

westtip wrote: »

Just a reminder that the South East actually values tourist and appreciates being a tourist hinterland! In the meantime the people of Tuam can look forward to heavy rail freight - but not for another 30 years! going through the town

https://www.wexfordcoco.ie/community/recreational-and-community-development-projects/rosslare-to-waterford-city-greenway

it's a pipe dream. it is unlikely to happen for many reasons. i gave some in an earlier post.

eastwest wrote: »

They have a very capable County Manager in Waterford, who was never a member of any 'railway appreciation' society. He is a guy who gets things done, and he will get this one done too. When it opens, we'll still be debating the merits of a greenway on the closed Athenry Colooney line.
Sean Kyne this morning on Galway Bay FM came up with a new excuse for not building a greenway from Athenry to Tuam. He said that the embankment was too high for bikes. He had better get down to Kilmacthomas quick and get the cyclists off the viaduct on the Deise Greenway!

how will the waterford county manager get this one done considering most of it will be outside his patch. is he going to give wexford county council all the money to maintain all it's structures and the rest?

eastwest

end of the road wrote: »

it's a pipe dream. it is unlikely to happen for many reasons. i gave some in an earlier post.



how will the waterford county manager get this one done considering most of it will be outside his patch. is he going to give wexford county council all the money to maintain all it's structures and the rest?

Waterford is driving this and is likely to be the lead agency.

Accidentally

Harcourt Street wrote: »

The pushback against WOT and Western Development in general hasn't just started. It has been ongoing for many years. At times it's been very personal and vicious towards those of us who see the west as far more than just a tourist hinterland.

Tuam didn't look like much of a tourist hinterland this morning, and I'm not expecting much of a change by this evening.

I think I'll bow out now, as I get the impression this was never about providing services to the people who live here, but more about playing big boys trainsets with other people's money.

Harcourt Street

Accidentally wrote: »

Tuam didn't look like much of a tourist hinterland this morning, and I'm not expecting much of a change by this evening.

I think I'll bow out now, as I get the impression this was never about providing services to the people who live here, but more about playing big boys trainsets with other people's money.

Complete and utter nonsense. The idea of big boys trainsets or trainspotters gets put about by anti rail propagandists. The reality of the railway campaign is actually about providing infrastructure to enable jobs in the West rather than wasting infrastructure on a cycle track that will never be given back for rail if taken. Google Comber Greenway and Sustrans for more detail.

Accidentally

Harcourt Street wrote: »

Complete and utter nonsense. The idea of big boys trainsets or trainspotters gets put about by anti rail propagandists. The reality of the railway campaign is actually about providing infrastructure to enable jobs in the West rather than wasting infrastructure on a cycle track that will never be given back for rail if taken. Google Comber Greenway and Sustrans for more detail.

Okay then. So what exactly is going to use a line from Tuam to Athenry, and when?

BTW, I'm not pushed on the cycle route one way or the other. I'd be much more interested in a Tesco to give O'Tooles a bit of competition

Muckyboots

Harcourt Street wrote: »

Complete and utter nonsense. The idea of big boys trainsets or trainspotters gets put about by anti rail propagandists. The reality of the railway campaign is actually about providing infrastructure to enable jobs in the West rather than wasting infrastructure on a cycle track that will never be given back for rail if taken. Google Comber Greenway and Sustrans for more detail.

Comber "bus lanes" did not proceed because Stormont wouldn't approve the budget and decided to use the existing road network instead. Sustrans may have had concerns but they weren't the deal breakers. And it's a "Greenway", not a "cycle track" and a Greenway is infrastructure, whether you like that or not. Infrastructure that has a lot more to offer the communities it intersects than railway alignment that's not fit for 21st-century use.

eastwest

Harcourt Street wrote: »

Complete and utter nonsense. The idea of big boys trainsets or trainspotters gets put about by anti rail propagandists. The reality of the railway campaign is actually about providing infrastructure to enable jobs in the West rather than wasting infrastructure on a cycle track that will never be given back for rail if taken. Google Comber Greenway and Sustrans for more detail.

Why does west on track keep bringing up the Comber issue? It is completely irrelevant in this context, but they keep dropping it in as a supposed reason why the greenway shouldn't be built here.
The ultimate in fake news.

BowSideChamp

Harcourt Street wrote: »

Complete and utter nonsense. The idea of big boys trainsets or trainspotters gets put about by anti rail propagandists. The reality of the railway campaign is actually about providing infrastructure to enable jobs in the West rather than wasting infrastructure on a cycle track that will never be given back for rail if taken. Google Comber Greenway and Sustrans for more detail.

Building a train line that carries 8 people doesn't enable jobs. It just wastes money that could have been spent elsewhere on positive projects for the West of Ireland.

A Greenway will bring communities in the West together. Imagine, the number of walking groups who will use it instead of having to walk around a soggy floodlit GAA pitch.

marno21

BowSideChamp wrote: »

Building a train line that carries 8 people doesn't enable jobs. It just wastes money that could have been spent elsewhere on positive projects for the West of Ireland.

A Greenway will bring communities in the West together. Imagine, the number of walking groups who will use it instead of having to walk around a soggy floodlit GAA pitch.

That and running a highly subsidised railway line is an obscene waste of money that could much better be invested in other uses in the area, greenways aside.

end of the road

BowSideChamp wrote: »

Building a train line that carries 8 people doesn't enable jobs.

just as well no such line was built, then. a line was built, but it now caries a good number of users. it took a while to get there, mind.

BowSideChamp wrote: »

A Greenway will bring communities in the West together. Imagine, the number of walking groups who will use it instead of having to walk around a soggy floodlit GAA pitch.

if a greenway would bring those communities together, then surely the building of it would also? surely then, they could have already got together and had a greenway up and running on a new route a long time ago, if a greenway would really bring them together?

marno21

end of the road wrote: »

just as well no such line was built, then. a line was built, but it now caries a good number of users. it took a while to get there, mind.

Thanks to highly reduced fares. If you reduced fares on the Cork line to that level the trains would be jam packed.

There may be more passengers but the reduction in fares means the operating subsidy remains at the high level of around 3m per year or 60k per week.

eastwest

Harcourt Street wrote: »

Complete and utter nonsense. The idea of big boys trainsets or trainspotters gets put about by anti rail propagandists. The reality of the railway campaign is actually about providing infrastructure to enable jobs in the West rather than wasting infrastructure on a cycle track that will never be given back for rail if taken. Google Comber Greenway and Sustrans for more detail.

So if it's not about big boys' train sets, what is it about? Not about moving lots of passengers about, that's for sure; you only have to look at the figures for ennis athenry to see that. (That's the actual figures, not the ones touted by WOT that include the traffic on athenry Galway and ennis Limerick, lines that were there before the wrc phase 1 was built).
Is there another agenda that might explain what is going on with the rail lobby? I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but the current anti greenway lobby smacks of some kind of vested interest. Is there some political manipulator pulling strings, someone who stands to gain if a freight line was to be built for instance? The wot narrative jumped suddenly a couple of years ago from passengers to freight, effectively abandoning all their previous arguments in favour of a new line of attack.
Any time I've seen these patterns in other places in the past, there has been a secondary story that was driving the lobbying. Is there one in Tuam, or is it somewhere further up or down the line?
I think we should be told, as they say.

CrabRevolution

end of the road wrote: »

if a greenway would bring those communities together, then surely the building of it would also? surely then, they could have already got together and had a greenway up and running on a new route a long time ago, if a greenway would really bring them together?

I'm only a lurker in this thread, but have to say this is one of the most bizarre and nonsensical arguments I've ever seen on boards.

Losty Dublin

Isambard wrote: »

not so easy to move the people who have annexed parts of the trackbed,for various uses, lots of legal challenges there and easier for a cyclepath to go around them than a railway.

Which raises a valid question; if such a cyclepath can go anywhere then why must a cyclepath go via the old railway track bed? Why this one? Why not have one along the N17? What is the special interest in cycling from Athenry to Colloney?

Don't get me wrong, a cyclepath is a great community asset to have for any neighbourhood. However it is odd to expect that one such as this is going to hand back it's route to a railway should it be required, assuming that it's the goldmine that we are led to believe. The sceptical gricer inside of me wonders aloud.

westtip

westtip wrote: »

How many times do I have to put this photograph up on this thread,

I would say that it would be far easier to achieve that on the Athlone Mullingar line which used to be double track than on the WRC which is single line, but having said that it would not be too expensive to implement as part of a rebuild if it was ever needed.