Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

marno21

Harcourt Street wrote: »

Let’s be clear; the politicians aren’t asleep. They are wide awake to the tricks the Greenway promoters are up to. The bullying and the insults and talk of molesting cattle aren’t being ignored.

This is utter fantasy

There is a clear demonstrated desire from the people of Tuam and surrounding areas to convert the disused railway into a greenway. There is a small handful of rail enthusiasts who would like to see the railway reopened. The Government have made it clear that there will be no extension to the Western Rail Corridor. This isn't broadcast because there is an Independent TD holding the Government up that would be offended if the WRC were properly shelved.

This problem with Canney will one day come to an end and the Western Rail Corridor campaign will run out of track. There is far too much support of greenways and the support countrywide is opening with more and more km of greenway being opened and the success of greenways being clearly demonstrated.

Weighing up the benefits of a railway for Tuam vs a greenway for Tuam will give a very clear answer as to which one should be progressed.

Harcourt Street

Harcourt Street wrote: »

Let’s be clear; the politicians aren’t asleep. They are wide awake to the tricks the Greenway promoters are up to. The bullying and the insults and talk of molesting cattle aren’t being ignored.

The same tactic has been trotted out manys a time by losing campaigns. When times are good "hey, hey look at us, nobody can touch us and we don't have to engage", when things swing the other way "hey, we're the victims, everyone's picking on us"

Like I said, a different opinion to yours does not bullying equal

On a side note, wondering you are ever going to provide some info about the jobs generated as a result of the Ennis to Athenry line seeing as you claim Athenry to Tuam will generate jobs. Just to clarify, this is not bullying, its asking a follow up question to a claim you made that has no evidence

eastwest

Deleted User wrote: »

The same tactic has been trotted out manys a time by losing campaigns. When times are good "hey, hey look at us, nobody can touch us and we don't have to engage", when things swing the other way "hey, we're the victims, everyone's picking on us"

Like I said, a different opinion to yours does not bullying equal

On a side note, wondering you are ever going to provide some info about the jobs generated as a result of the Ennis to Athenry line seeing as you claim Athenry to Tuam will generate jobs. Just to clarify, this is not bullying, its asking a follow up question to a claim you made that has no evidence

You won't get an answer from any of the rail campaigners in this, you'll just get the usual blather about passenger numbers, adding in the numbers on athenry Galway and ennis Limerick to somehow justify what has been described as one of the top ten projects for squandering taxpayer funds.

whisky_galore

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/full-steam-ahead-for-the-quiet-man-abandoned-rail-station-468766.html

The Ballyglunin station people seem to want a functioning railway...

Muckyboots

whisky_galore wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/full-steam-ahead-for-the-quiet-man-abandoned-rail-station-468766.html

The Ballyglunin station people seem to want a functioning railway...

It's how you answer a question you are asked. "Would you like to see a functioning railway here?" Well yes, of course, is always going to be the answer. That's always been the default stance of everyone who lives along the route of the WRC.
Sean Canney has floated the boat for rail again and local people don't want to be seen to take the wind out of his sails. If his "3+3=100" report comes back with a plan to reopen the railway, well then vested interests along the line would be crazy to oppose it.

whisky_galore

whisky_galore wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/full-steam-ahead-for-the-quiet-man-abandoned-rail-station-468766.html

The Ballyglunin station people seem to want a functioning railway...

I'm not sure why, that station won't warrant a stop whereas they would have a few hundred thousand cycling past once it becomes a greenway. If they are looking for a long term viable option then the greenway is it

dermo888

I don't mind them restoring a station. I don't mind them having a preserved railway for tourism purposes, since it won't be THAT expensive to finance vis a vis a fully operational functioning regional/commuter line. But I do mind it being constantly pushed in the mistaken belief that it will be a success, because the population densities do not support or justify it at all,

dermo888

I don't mind them restoring a station. I don't mind them having a preserved railway for tourism purposes, since it won't be THAT expensive to finance vis a vis a fully operational functioning regional/commuter line. But I do mind it being constantly pushed in the mistaken belief that it will be a success, because the population densities do not support or justify it at all,

Lord Glentoran

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The same tactic has been trotted out manys a time by losing campaigns. When times are good "hey, hey look at us, nobody can touch us and we don't have to engage", when things swing the other way "hey, we're the victims, everyone's picking on us"

Like I said, a different opinion to yours does not bullying equal

On a side note, wondering you are ever going to provide some info about the jobs generated as a result of the Ennis to Athenry line seeing as you claim Athenry to Tuam will generate jobs. Just to clarify, this is not bullying, its asking a follow up question to a claim you made that has no evidence

Can you let us know how many jobs have been created in Moate by the greenway? A useful comparator.

Lord Glentoran

eastwest wrote: »

You won't get an answer from any of the rail campaigners in this, you'll just get the usual blather about passenger numbers, adding in the numbers on athenry Galway and ennis Limerick to somehow justify what has been described as one of the top ten projects for squandering taxpayer funds.

Wide open spaces on the M17 pictures posted daily on the thread elsewhere would suggest that spending €500 million, multiples of the cost of restoring Tuam-Athenry, wasn't the best use of money at all, despite all the Trumping up of it.

Lord Glentoran

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Can you let us know how many jobs have been created in Moate by the greenway? A useful comparator.

I'll do one better. I will happily provide with information available on the success of greenways in general

A good piece with info about several greenways

And, the push is on now for more urban greenways

Waterford
Cost - 15-20 mil depending on source
Length - 46km
Visitors - 250,000 in one year

Spin off benefits for local businesses
30 eur spend per head from those using the amenity, 100 if they stay the night

Westport
Cost - 7.5 mil
length - 42km
200 jobs added in guiding, bike rental, cafes, taxis, hotels

Depending what source you use, local spend ranges between 1 mil (2012 case study) and 7 mil (Mayo County Council) with payback ranging from 1-6 years

Case study (conducted in 2012) measuring the success of the Great Western Greenway
Fitzgearld Report summary commisioned by Failte Ireland on the greenway

Mullingar to Athlone
Cost - 4 mil
length - 40km

Honestly, there's not a lot out there about this section. I can only assume this is because it forms part of the proposed Galway to Dublin route (277km) and as such would be measured as a whole. In this way, its different to the Westport or Waterford ones which are standalone projects. The County Council in Westmeath have done a woeful bad job of doing any kind of analysis on its performance except to give average daily users.

Given I live 40 mins away from the route, I wasn't even aware of it. that goes to show how lack of promotion of a route can make it suffer. But, thanks in part to your question, I now planning on taking a spin on it.

700 daily users

Muckyboots

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Wide open spaces on the M17 pictures posted daily on the thread elsewhere would suggest that spending €500 million, multiples of the cost of restoring Tuam-Athenry, wasn't the best use of money at all, despite all the Trumping up of it.

You are arguing against your own case here. The M17 was never projected to meet the target traffic level set for motorway requirements. Hence the long delay in getting a PPP and the reason it's not tolled. Are you suggesting now we do the same for the railway with even less of a business case and almost zero local demand? Use of the word "restore" for something that never really was there in the first place is a bit disingenuous i.e. Tuam-Athenry as a commuter line.

westtip

Harcourt Street wrote: »

Let’s be clear; the politicians aren’t asleep. They are wide awake to the tricks the Greenway promoters are up to. The bullying and the insults and talk of molesting cattle aren’t being ignored.

This thread gets more and more bizarre by the day, so pray tell which of the poor little petals are getting bullied, and tell me what format is this bullying taking. I think a politician receiving thousands of emails from the public is lobbying not bullying. I think a politician being told he or she is talking complete and utter nonsense is simply putting them in their place.

Having a right go at them verbally! please if they can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

westtip

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll do one better. I will happily provide with information available on the success of greenways in general

A good piece with info about several greenways

And, the push is on now for more urban greenways

Waterford
Cost - 15-20 mil depending on source
Length - 46km
Visitors - 250,000 in one year

Spin off benefits for local businesses
30 eur spend per head from those using the amenity, 100 if they stay the night

Westport
Cost - 7.5 mil
length - 42km
200 jobs added in guiding, bike rental, cafes, taxis, hotels

Depending what source you use, local spend ranges between 1 mil (2012 case study) and 7 mil (Mayo County Council) with payback ranging from 1-6 years

Case study (conducted in 2012) measuring the success of the Great Western Greenway
Fitzgearld Report summary commisioned by Failte Ireland on the greenway

Mullingar to Athlone
Cost - 4 mil
length - 40km

Honestly, there's not a lot out there about this section. I can only assume this is because it forms part of the proposed Galway to Dublin route (277km) and as such would be measured as a whole. In this way, its different to the Westport or Waterford ones which are standalone projects. The County Council in Westmeath have done a woeful bad job of doing any kind of analysis on its performance except to give average daily users.

Given I live 40 mins away from the route, I wasn't even aware of it. that goes to show how lack of promotion of a route can make it suffer. But, thanks in part to your question, I now planning on taking a spin on it.

700 daily users

700 users - not bad for a start, it will be more when the Dublin galway greenway is completed. Tell you what if I was in Moate I wouldn't mind selling a cup of coffee and a scone to 100 of them everyday - €500 a day less costs I reckon could employ 2 or 3 people. Not high tech jobs I admit but better to have them in Moate than not. I reckon jobs will begin to materialize in Moate soon.

Lord Glentoran

westtip wrote: »

This thread gets more and more bizarre by the day, so pray tell which of the poor little petals are getting bullied, and tell me what format is this bullying taking. I think a politician receiving thousands of emails from the public is lobbying not bullying. I think a politician being told he or she is talking complete and utter nonsense is simply putting them in their place.

Having a right go at them verbally! please if they can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

I wonder how much lower can this thread go than the molesting farm animals comment. I imagine quite a bit.

Lord Glentoran

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll do one better. I will happily provide with information available on the success of greenways in general

A good piece with info about several greenways

And, the push is on now for more urban greenways

Waterford
Cost - 15-20 mil depending on source
Length - 46km
Visitors - 250,000 in one year

Spin off benefits for local businesses
30 eur spend per head from those using the amenity, 100 if they stay the night

Westport
Cost - 7.5 mil
length - 42km
200 jobs added in guiding, bike rental, cafes, taxis, hotels

Depending what source you use, local spend ranges between 1 mil (2012 case study) and 7 mil (Mayo County Council) with payback ranging from 1-6 years

Case study (conducted in 2012) measuring the success of the Great Western Greenway
Fitzgearld Report summary commisioned by Failte Ireland on the greenway

Mullingar to Athlone
Cost - 4 mil
length - 40km

Honestly, there's not a lot out there about this section. I can only assume this is because it forms part of the proposed Galway to Dublin route (277km) and as such would be measured as a whole. In this way, its different to the Westport or Waterford ones which are standalone projects. The County Council in Westmeath have done a woeful bad job of doing any kind of analysis on its performance except to give average daily users.

Given I live 40 mins away from the route, I wasn't even aware of it. that goes to show how lack of promotion of a route can make it suffer. But, thanks in part to your question, I now planning on taking a spin on it.

700 daily users

Well do report back and tell us all about Moate. Seriously.

Lord Glentoran

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

I wonder how much lower can this thread go than the molesting farm animals comment. I imagine quite a bit.

:rolleyes:

An imagination is a wonderful thing, I imagine there will be cyclists, walkers, buggys and prams, all making use of the defunct WRC through the greenway that will be built on it.

dermo888

'Talk of molesting Cattle'
Comedy Gold. Probably against every rule of the charter known, along with a few other phrases, such as 'Fowl Play' and 'Chicken Dinner'. Not that I know, or even want to know.
I would'nt call it 'low' Lord Glentoran. I'd call it hilariously desperate.
Satire aside, back on topic, which is going to do more good. (a) A reopened railway? (b) A tourist railway?
(c) A greenway? Who knows - I'd actually choose a mix of B & C. Also, congratulations has to be given to those who volunteered in the effort to restore Ballyglunin Station.

westtip

dermo888 wrote: »

'Talk of molesting Cattle'
Comedy Gold. Probably against every rule of the charter known, along with a few other phrases, such as 'Fowl Play' and 'Chicken Dinner'. Not that I know, or even want to know.
I would'nt call it 'low' Lord Glentoran. I'd call it hilariously desperate.
Satire aside, back on topic, which is going to do more good. (a) A reopened railway? (b) A tourist railway?
(c) A greenway? Who knows - I'd actually choose a mix of B & C. Also, congratulations has to be given to those who volunteered in the effort to restore Ballyglunin Station.

Option B a tourist railway can't be built by the state solely for that purpose, there could be no justification for it, however if you are suggesting part of the railway be restored by volunteers for heritage type railway tourist attraction, I doubt there would be the voluntary resources for much more than a mile or so, Fair play to anyone who wants to take this on, but in Kiltimagh the Kiltimagh IRD company have already sucked 300,000 out of Michael Rings department just to get the old railway fit for velo rail carts, and by all accounts they are struggling to get it done, so restoring the closed line for a heritage/tourist railway for just a few miles is going to cost a lot. Good idea can't see it happening. But if they did it for two miles and the rest was greenway that would be an acceptable solution! Option A - A fully blown railway we know won't happen - so we are left going around in circles. Mind you Canney must be getting the message, so far 12,000 people have signed the on-line petition on change.org. Canney gets an email from change.org everytime someone signs, is sending one representative 12,000 emails bullying or just letting him know something is happening on his own doorstep?

If anyone wants to sign and spread the word.

https://www.change.org/p/western-rail-trail-campaign-create-a-walking-and-cycling-greenway-on-the-closed-railway-from-sligo-to-athenry

Lord Glentoran

How does Sean Canney end up getting 12,000 unsolicited emails from change.org?

Doltanian

There should be no greenways built on former railways, these rail lines are of strategic importance and should be reopened and modified for higher speeds. Greenways only serve the tourist privateers where Railways are of economic strategic importance. Who the heck would want to wall along these? Its pissing rain most days anyway. Talk about pie in the sky delusions.

whisky_galore

You can forget about a 'tourist railway', there's no motivation in the general population doing unpaid thankless work, unless it's self-interested parochial things like Tidy Towns or the GAA.

Doltanian

Doltanian wrote: »

Who the heck would want to wall along these? Its pissing rain most days anyway. Talk about pie in the sky delusions.

250,000 people on Waterford greenway in one year

700 daily average people on the Athlone to Mullingar greenway

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/post/106562799

To answer your question, lots of people

westtip

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

How does Sean Canney end up getting 12,000 unsolicited emails from change.org?

It is quite simple really, when you set up a petition on change.org you identify the politicians and public servants who can influence the decision. Clearly Mr Canney can influence the decision. The emails are not "unsolicited" the petitioners are choosing, by signing the petition to have an automatic email sent to him as an influencer and decision maker. Politicians don't have to solicit communication from members of the public; the fact they have been elected means those with an interest in any particular issue are free to contact them on their published email address. Mr Canney has received another 100 emails today, he will probably get about 150 by close of play, and the way the petition is growing it is likely to be about 150 emails a day from hereon in for awhile. If he doesn't like people petitioning him for something he could do something about, well frankly that's not mine or anyone else's problem, he just needs to look in the mirror. I think though at this stage he is at least getting the message. don't you ?

Anyway to answer your question the reason he gets 12,000 emails is because of his stance on the Western Rail Trail, his promise to produce a report on the western rail corridor instead of fighting for what his constituents want (a greenway) and for being a lapdog to West on Track who are mainly based outside his constituency . That is why he has got 12,000 emails to answer, because he has failed to deliver something that was highly deliverable when he had the chance as the independent alliance supporting party to the government. He will in effect go back to the electorate and say "look I have a report which promises a railway in 30 years time" instead he could have single handed delivered the greenway. He hasn't and the people in Galway East will be reminded of this time and again before the election.

dermo888

Doltanian wrote: »

There should be no greenways built on former railways, these rail lines are of strategic importance and should be reopened and modified for higher speeds. Greenways only serve the tourist privateers where Railways are of economic strategic importance. Who the heck would want to wall along these? Its pissing rain most days anyway. Talk about pie in the sky delusions.

Dear God, grant me patience..........
The bloody thing closed because it was'nt being used, was'nt built right in the first place, and the kind of traffic it carried (Mainly Cattle and Sundry Freight) died off. But don't let facts get in the way of a good argument.

Muckyboots

Doltanian wrote: »

should be reopened and modified for higher speeds......Talk about pie in the sky delusions.

It's like a dog barking at his own tail.

Isambard

Tourist Privateers produce real jobs.

Doltanian

Isambard wrote: »

Tourist Privateers produce real jobs.

Minimum wage jobs filled by migrant workers, who then shop in Lidl and remit most of the money out of the country. I see only one winner and that is the Tourist trade and one loser and that is the taxman. Tourism contributes very little in line of a real economic boost to the economy. Minimum wage jobs are of no use to anyone with aspirations in life.

end of the road

westtip wrote: »

It is quite simple really, when you set up a petition on change.org you identify the politicians and public servants who can influence the decision. Clearly Mr Canney can influence the decision. The emails are not "unsolicited" the petitioners are choosing, by signing the petition to have an automatic email sent to him as an influencer and decision maker. Politicians don't have to solicit communication from members of the public; the fact they have been elected means those with an interest in any particular issue are free to contact them on their published email address. Mr Canney has received another 100 emails today, he will probably get about 150 by close of play, and the way the petition is growing it is likely to be about 150 emails a day from hereon in for awhile. If he doesn't like people petitioning him for something he could do something about, well frankly that's not mine or anyone else's problem, he just needs to look in the mirror. I think though at this stage he is at least getting the message. don't you ?

Anyway to answer your question the reason he gets 12,000 emails is because of his stance on the Western Rail Trail, his promise to produce a report on the western rail corridor instead of fighting for what his constituents want (a greenway) and for being a lapdog to West on Track who are mainly based outside his constituency . That is why he has got 12,000 emails to answer, because he has failed to deliver something that was highly deliverable when he had the chance as the independent alliance supporting party to the government. He will in effect go back to the electorate and say "look I have a report which promises a railway in 30 years time" instead he could have single handed delivered the greenway. He hasn't and the people in Galway East will be reminded of this time and again before the election.

they can be reminded away, the reality is there are more important issues effecting the country and it's people that need attention.
IMO you should have tried for a different route, you'd likely have a greenway by now. as it is, you will likely get nothing IMO.

Isambard wrote: »

Tourist Privateers produce real jobs.

seems to be mostly low paid jobs though? hardly anything to shout about really.

Topgear on Dave

Doltanian wrote: »

Minimum wage jobs filled by migrant workers, who then shop in Lidl and remit most of the money out of the country. I see only one winner and that is the Tourist trade and one loser and that is the taxman. Tourism contributes very little in line of a real economic boost to the economy. Minimum wage jobs are of no use to anyone with aspirations in life.

Tourism could be a nice little boost to lots of small towns in the country. Certainly my own unloved and off the beaten track hometown would not say no to it.

Minimum wage jobs being better than no jobs at all.