Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

Judgement Day

dowlingm wrote: »

That picture or one like it was posted before. My comment at the time was that the excuse will be that safety rules don't permit it unless a massive concrete/steel construction separates the footpath from the right of way. I suspect a lot of the neighbouring farmers (some of whom inching to "accidentally" assume the trackbed as noted in the NTA decision) won't love the idea of ramblers along their farms as they might have notions of straying off the path!

Yes, and as we know somebody in IE must have shares in who ever makes pallisade fencing.

westtip

Eiretrains wrote: »

Should have made myself clearer, as in removing the line entirely.
Indeed Westtip that would be more ideal to have both, just we don't have much example to look to other than those that are successfully installed in Britain.
It would have to be done carefully as not to interfere with the right of way, as often too many disused lines in this country have been compromised by nearby lineside alterations.

But there are nevertheless successful examples in Britain - yes we will have all the old arguments about rights of way and compromised lines - if the northern branch line is to be opened then these compromises are going to have to be removed anyway, the land of alignment is owned by IE, just as the land of the alignment in the UK is owned by Railtrack (or whatever the name of the company), If they decide they want to put a walking track alongside on their land, the farmers have to be worked with and the positives sold, but actually they don't have any rights to the line apart from rights to cross it - and if you want to talk to the farmers in Mayo about the Mulranny - Newport Greenway you will find a different attitude - the assumption is always negative about farmers - the postive aspects have to be sold to them.

I am not a fan of the WRC northbound because I do actually think it won't work and there are greater priorities, but I actually think the parallel greenway would make the line more successful as it would add to the tourist/leisure proposal - bike one way train the other option.

dowlingm wrote: »

That picture or one like it was posted before. My comment at the time was that the excuse will be that safety rules don't permit it unless a massive concrete/steel construction separates the footpath from the right of way. I suspect a lot of the neighbouring farmers (some of whom inching to "accidentally" assume the trackbed as noted in the NTA decision) won't love the idea of ramblers along their farms as they might have notions of straying off the path!

Yes Dowling I have put it on this thread and the original thread, and argue still at this juncture is would be a good idea for the WRC northern branch line. Yes 101 excuses will be found - as I have said before the difference is we're irish. But we have to address the loss of walking and cycling tourists, and we have to attract people to use the rail line if it goes ahead, this will address these two issues as the greenway will lead to more usage of the rail line. Re the farmers well they have to be worked with - Do the people in the photo look like they are about to rustle sheep or burn crops - Pond life in general does not go for "country walks", so the whole thing has to be sold positively, Farmers have to accept the societal changes - the countryside is no longer just farmland, it is like it or not part of the recreational area of the nation.

Very interesting read on the travel section of the Irish Times on Saturday - I will try and dig out the link -its on the back pages of the travel section if you have it kicking around the house give it a read.

westtip

The article I mentioned above in the Irish times on Saturday is below.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/travel/2010/0918/1224279134263.html

The difference is we're irish - Now what has this article got to do with the Western Rail Corridor - well read the last few posts and you will see what I mean. This is how we should be thinking - go ahead build the railway but lets make it a creative way of travelling - it can be done.

MAGAN'S WORLD: I SPENT LAST October in Lower Normandy, four weeks tucked up in the eaves of an 18th century farmhouse overlooking a forest in the Parc Naturel Régional Normandie-Maine. A mantel of ancient oak and sweet chestnut covered the hills in all directions, with maize fields in the valleys and ochre cattle grazing the lower slopes.

Development is strictly curtailed within the park and so almost all of the houses were elegant lime-washed, oak-beamed buildings with authentic 19th century outhouses, and well maintained orchards and vegetable gardens. Heavy snow and storms in winter mean that households must be self-sufficient in terms of fuel, and so each house had neatly-stacked cords of well-seasoned wood which the owners had chopped themselves from pollarded trees, or well-managed hedgerows. The hunting season was coming to an end and each weekend people gathered in the forests collecting mushrooms, with guns slung over their shoulders in the hopes of bagging the last of the season’s boar quota.

I’ve been reluctant to write about the holiday, not because I didn’t enjoy it. I adored it, and would recommend anyone to spend time in Lonlay-l’Abbaye, Domfront, Flers, Sourdeval or any of the other towns within the park that covers a vast area of rolling hills, woodland, and open country. My problem was that most of my observations were along the line of: “Why, oh why, do they get it so right and we in Ireland so wrong?”

Such thinking is never helpful, like a mother comparing her children to her neighbours’. Comparisons are pointless: all families are different, like all nations.

I’m sure there’s a good reason why we in Ireland demolish our vernacular farmhouses, outbuildings and stables and sell off the stone; why we raze our orchards and slash our hedgerows into plucked-eyebrow strips. No doubt there’s wisdom too behind our decision to no longer provide our own fuel – why dead trees are left to rot where they lie, why the cuttings from our hedgerows are mulched rather than being dried and used for kindling? It can’t just be laziness, can it?

Perhaps we can blame the British in some way, sing a drunken verse of Cill Cáis , as we nimbly shirk responsibility.

The most depressing comparison is in terms of walking trails: the fact that every village for miles in Normandy has a map outside the town hall outlining the cross-country walking routes that spiral out along rivers, forest trails and droving paths. Where I live in north Westmeath there are no trails and so people do laps of the GAA pitch, circling like prisoners because they daren’t risk the roads. I’m surrounded by Lough Derravaragh, the Ben of Fore and Lough Lene – all of which have fine car parks nearby, for young folk to practise hand-brake turns late at night, but there’s no way of walking around any of them. A way-marked route exists between Kilbeggan and Mullingar, but much of it on treacherous roads.

Does the fault lie with farmers for failing to steward the land? For ripping out the old herding trails and refusing to allow access on their land? They hide behind a bogus case of a Donegal farmer who was said to have been sued by a hiker in 1997, but that never happened. The case was thrown out of court because the Occupiers Liability Act makes clear that landowners have no liability for claims from recreational users.

The midlands need tourism. I could show you locations in Longford, Laois, Offaly and Westmeath that surpass anything in the west of Ireland or Lower Normandy, but in each place we’d be trespassing on a farmer’s land and liable to be shouted or shot at with suspicious glances, if not actual bullets. Vive les Midlands

Propellerhead

westtip wrote: »

The article I mentioned above in the Irish times on Saturday is below.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/travel/2010/0918/1224279134263.html

The difference is we're irish - Now what has this article got to do with the Western Rail Corridor - well read the last few posts and you will see what I mean. This is how we should be thinking - go ahead build the railway but lets make it a creative way of travelling - it can be done.

Are you familiar with Rights of Way in England and Wales?

Only very rarely are they cannibalised rail lines and if you look at the local Ordnance Survey maps you will see how dense the network is. I know that you are anxious to prevent further use of the Claremorris to Sligo line as a railway but Ireland's lack of access to the countryside is a wider issue than just that.

Judgement Day

Now westtip put that in your bag and jingle it!

Judgement Day

All Ballina's freight for a year on one train here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAKBa_g1T1E

foggy_lad

"c'mon paddy and we get this train unloaded before the tea!"

my god that is a lot of bogeys, you'd want the sandwiches and flask of tea if you got stuck at a level crossing as that thing started to pass and more like 3years of balinas freight at three times the speed:D

westtip

Propellerhead wrote: »

Are you familiar with Rights of Way in England and Wales?

Only very rarely are they cannibalised rail lines and if you look at the local Ordnance Survey maps you will see how dense the network is. I know that you are anxious to prevent further use of the Claremorris to Sligo line as a railway but Ireland's lack of access to the countryside is a wider issue than just that.

Indeed as I spent the first 40 years of my life in England and indeed Scotland I am aware of the rights of way issues, and yes I am very aware of the massive network of footpaths, bridleways, etc which society enjoys across the water, they are part of the reason why England has such a massive walking tourism industry. Re old railways they are indeed just a part of the walking mix in England/Wales. Here they represent an opportunity to build a network and to try and start catching up with places like England. Prevention of the Claremorris - Sligo line is not in my power, its use as a greenway would be of great benefit to communities along its way, its use as a railway would be limited and I believe is a complete non starter. I would be more than happy to see both sitting alongside each other - as per the photo posted a few pages back, and i think this does actually represent a very creative opportunity for the northern branch line. Some posters have said my arguments to use the WRC northern branch line as a greenway would lead to the usual rights of way arguments - they would be very weak arguments to prevent this line being used this way - and on the other hand to use it as a railway - both in essence are public rights of way, and if the authorities choose to make it so then that is what will happen.

Yes I agree with you the rights of way issue is much wider than just the old rail lines issue being converted and used as greenways, it is however part of the mix. The lack of rights of way is an unfortunate part of our national malaise.

Judgement Day

westtip - you're slipping up and you failed to report on this thread over on IRN
http://irnirishrailwaynews.yuku.com/topic/1990/t/Tuam-150-Celebrations-27-9-2010.html
Great to see the station tidied up - just in time for demolition! That was my initial thought and sure enough the last post on the page mentioned that IE intend to build a new station in the Goods Yard. I bet it will be another delightful modern structure. :rolleyes:

corktina

oh dear what a palava....station looks really well, shame to see it demolished when the trains come....mind you, probably fall down before that happens.

dowlingm

Judgement Day wrote: »

westtip - you're slipping up and you failed to report on this thread over on IRN

Notice they don't actually give a crap about Galway - just the Burma Road!

westtip

Judgement Day wrote: »

westtip - you're slipping up and you failed to report on this thread over on IRN
http://irnirishrailwaynews.yuku.com/topic/1990/t/Tuam-150-Celebrations-27-9-2010.html
Great to see the station tidied up - just in time for demolition! That was my initial thought and sure enough the last post on the page mentioned that IE intend to build a new station in the Goods Yard. I bet it will be another delightful modern structure. :rolleyes:

JD I did see it and read about the effort gone into tidying up a railway station that doesn't actually have any trains running through it although I am surprised WOT have not put out one of their usual incredibly misleading press releases about how it is all going to be up and running by 2011, I had a good a laugh at the schematic showing the line up to sligo - but even better is the trains with Tuam on the front as its destination - it reminded me of the train on the Dempsey website with NAVAN written on the front of the train...Did he turn up to open the newly painted station and make the usual pile of tosh promises. With the state of the public finances and the shortfall in HSE budgets in the west this project is falling further down the slippery pole of no hope. But we all know that don't we. Great news about the N17/18 has anyone actually mentioned this to WOT and the Tuam Tidy Towns committee - and BTW does this mean Tuam could win the best kept railway station award in the no trains at our station category?

Mind you looking at the the photos on IRN it clealry woudl make a good venue for something useful for the town - a nice bistro, or arts centre, or hostel for people travelling the Western Rail greenway, potentially even a rail museum. The buildings do look nice though - won't be much use to all those kids in the photos though as they will all be living in Atlanta, Boston, Beijing or Sydney. Mind you I supposed a train to Eyre Square might be useful for the OAPs and SJE passengers, Tis the stuff of fantasy land.
No it wasn't a slip up me missing it just too dam tired....

Transportuser09

Whilst I'm sure most of us here acknowledge a Claremorris to Sligo reopening is stretching the imagination a bit too far, you can't knock the community spirit over there. It's amazing to see the amount of time and effort put in by local volunteers there - well done to them.

Carawaystick

Transportuser09 wrote: »

Whilst I'm sure most of us here acknowledge a Claremorris to Sligo reopening is stretching the imagination a bit too far, you can't knock the community spirit over there. It's amazing to see the amount of time and effort put in by local volunteers there - well done to them.

The M17 will allow a busload of passengers travel from Tuam, as well as allowing a busload travel to Tuam *at the same time* while the train line will only allow one way travel, at times that suit IÉ, at journey times that are probably slower than the train and at fares that are probably slower than the train, just like Athenry to Limerick.

The Athenry to Tuam line might stay open if it rains though...

dowlingm

In fairness, having the place look like a dump is no good either. Good for them for cleaning it up, indeed - and for CIE not playing the insurance card in doing so.

Still doesn't entitle them to trains though.

westtip

dowlingm wrote: »

In fairness, having the place look like a dump is no good either. Good for them for cleaning it up, indeed - and for CIE not playing the insurance card in doing so.

Still doesn't entitle them to trains though.

The community shoudl occupy it now and make use of the dam place, I saw a piece on the BBC recently how many of the large old victorian station buildings - at stations which are still vibrant and being used - but have many redundant buildings that are listed are now being used for a variety of useful social purposes, Doctors surgerys, Dental Surgerys, small business units for unemployed people doing start ups -Performing arts spaces - and other really imaginative uses - most of these are victorian red brick buildings with listing preservation orders on them - Railtrack have come to an agreement for a very low rent policy providing the tenants maintain the buildings in keeping with the preservation orders and meet all utility costs and insurance costs. It's apparently a great success - i will try to dig out some information. Regardless of the WRC arguments - having seen the photos of Tuam Station it really is a building and area that should be used proactively by the community.

I thought the Railtrack approach was quite good. however the difference is we're irish.

corktina

Judgement Day wrote: »

westtip - you're slipping up and you failed to report on this thread over on IRN
http://irnirishrailwaynews.yuku.com/topic/1990/t/Tuam-150-Celebrations-27-9-2010.html
Great to see the station tidied up - just in time for demolition! That was my initial thought and sure enough the last post on the page mentioned that IE intend to build a new station in the Goods Yard. I bet it will be another delightful modern structure. :rolleyes:

link not working anymore....

foggy_lad

corktina wrote: »

link not working anymore....

i love the little airport sign beside sligo on that poster lol those west on track people have vivid imaginations:D

westtip

foggy_lad wrote: »

i love the little airport sign beside sligo on that poster lol those west on track people have vivid imaginations:D

WOT about the Shannon link! As for Charlestown - remember Dana - bless her little cotton socks - she said during some campaign that the WRC should have a rail link from Knock airport to Charlestown station - sure they have only just worked it out that buses on the N17 might just pull up off the main road can call into the airport. I think a Maglev link similar to the one linking the Birmingham Airport to Birmingham NEC train station would have been perfectly adequate for Knock airport and Charlestown rail station - sure the wesht demands it so..:D

dowlingm

westtip wrote: »

The community shoudl occupy it now and make use of the dam place, I saw a piece on the BBC recently how many of the large old victorian station buildings - at stations which are still vibrant and being used - but have many redundant buildings that are listed are now being used for a variety of useful social purposes, Doctors surgerys, Dental Surgerys, small business units for unemployed people doing start ups -Performing arts spaces - and other really imaginative uses

The annoying part is that IE and the local councils don't in my view encourage such uses of OPEN station lands, never mind closed ones. If it's not in the city, they can only think about park and ride to one.

serfboard

Carawaystick wrote: »

The M17 will allow a busload of passengers travel from Tuam, as well as allowing a busload travel to Tuam *at the same time* while the train line will only allow one way travel, at times that suit IÉ, at journey times that are probably slower than the train and at fares that are probably slower than the train dearer than the bus, just like Athenry to Limerick.

Agree and FYP. And we don't need to wait for the M17 either - Burkes Bus already does it, plus there's a park and ride (at Tuam cathedral), plus the buses go all the way to GMIT and NUIG during college terms which the train obviously couldn't. The buses use the recently installed bus lanes at Claregalway too. Now, they only thing they need to do is run services via Ballybrit/Parkmore.

Oh and by the way, Bus Eireann also run 11 services to Galway every day too (more at weekends).

paulm17781

As a non-enthusiast (and no fan of WRC), I must say, the station looks great.

Transportuser09

Carawaystick wrote: »

The M17 will allow a busload of passengers travel from Tuam, as well as allowing a busload travel to Tuam *at the same time* while the train line will only allow one way travel, at times that suit IÉ, at journey times that are probably slower than the train and at fares that are probably slower than the train, just like Athenry to Limerick.

The Athenry to Tuam line might stay open if it rains though...

The fact that the line is single track doesn't mean it won't work - most of the rail lines in this country are single track - including the newly opened ones. They seem to function fine.

dowlingm

Until West on Track embraces Palerail, Tuam can't be countenanced.

westtip

Transportuser09 wrote: »

The fact that the line is single track doesn't mean it won't work - most of the rail lines in this country are single track - including the newly opened ones. They seem to function fine.

You are having a laugh aren't you, I mean why can't you get a train from Dublin to say Longford or Mullingar or Sligo or Galway or Athlone after 8.00 pm All single track lines - Is this level of service delivery functioning fine? Places like Longford or Mullingar or Athlone are long distance commuter lines, after 7 pm there shoudl be an annual service up until 11.30 pm if they really want to attract people onto trains this is what they need to do! If you live in the sticks the idea of gonig up to Das Kapital for say a night at the theatre is simply not on by train cos there is no late night service. IE "functions fine" if you want a third world service.

glineli

Crusheen to get stop
http://www.clare.fm/news/full-steam-ahead-crusheen-rail-stop

It's claimed the long awaited rail stop for Crusheen will not suffer any unnecessary delays.

Iarnroid Eireann says all necessary funding for the project is in place under the Transport 21 programme and can now proceed to construction.

Certain elements of the development have been completed such as the laying of tracks and talks are underway with the relevant authorities for the construction of a car park, access roads and terminal.

Clare Minister Tony Killeen says although no time frame is in place, the long campaigned for rail stop will not suffer any inordinate delay.

corktina

glineli wrote: »

.

Clare Minister Tony Killeen says although no time frame is in place, the long campaigned for rail stop will not suffer any inordinate delay.

no but the trains will with an extra stop....

dowlingm

If a loop was going with it it would probably net out to zero time wise as it would allow some trains to proceed past Gort or Ennis rather than wait. That's not the Killeen brain trust's plan though... build to minimum spec, minimum price, minimum capability like the rest of the line.

KC61

westtip wrote: »

You are having a laugh aren't you, I mean why can't you get a train from Dublin to say Longford or Mullingar or Sligo or Galway or Athlone after 8.00 pm All single track lines - Is this level of service delivery functioning fine? Places like Longford or Mullingar or Athlone are long distance commuter lines, after 7 pm there shoudl be an annual service up until 11.30 pm if they really want to attract people onto trains this is what they need to do! If you live in the sticks the idea of gonig up to Das Kapital for say a night at the theatre is simply not on by train cos there is no late night service. IE "functions fine" if you want a third world service.

To be fair the fact that there are no later trains on the other routes is down to a lack of rolling stock and drivers and not the fact that they are single track routes.

Carawaystick

KC61 wrote: »

To be fair the fact that there are no later trains on the other routes is down to a lack of .... drivers and not the fact that they are single track routes.

This is probably the one factor IÉ have entirely within their control.