Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

-Chris-

@everyone - this is a thread about the Western Rail Corridor

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Back on-topic please.

corktina

I propose that we use this thread to only discuss operational and heritage aspects of the WRC and use the thread in Infrastructure for everything esle, or start a new C&T thread. Thats what Im doing anyway.

Cookie_Monster

corktina wrote: »

I propose that we use this thread to only discuss operational and heritage aspects of the WRC and use the thread in Infrastructure for everything esle, or start a new C&T thread. Thats what Im doing anyway.

:pac:

But we'll lose about 6 million quid a year on this thread if just concentrating on operations

foggy_lad

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

:pac:

But we'll lose about 6 million quid a year on this thread if just concentrating on operations

Money well spent if it stops those pesky greenway hippies on their pushbikes:D

If there was ever a no brainer it is the idea of creating a greenway on the remainder of this long closed rail line. Even if the line is to be reopened in the future the greenway can run alongside or will in some places have to be diverted but at little cost. Also all the time it is open the greenway will be making money for locals and also publicising the Burma road and it's scenery worldwide!

corktina

even the notion of a Greenway having to be diverted isnt necessary. There would only ever be a handful of trains per day and simple "give way to trains" roadsigns at pinch-points plus "Sound Whistle" boards should be fully sufficent.

Rawr

corktina wrote: »

even the notion of a Greenway having to be diverted isnt necessary. There would only ever be a handful of trains per day and simple "give way to trains" roadsigns at pinch-points plus "Sound Whistle" boards should be fully sufficent.

That's an interesting approach. A sort of Cycle-path / Heavy-Rail Tramway along certain sections. (If I understood correctly.)

However, that might not happen due to all manner of possible Safety Regulations.

corktina

why on earth would you think that? Its would be exactly the same as a level crossing only more linear.Think of the LUAS...or Wexford Town quay

Rawr

corktina wrote: »

why on earth would you think that? Its would be exactly the same as a level crossing only more linear.Think of the LUAS...or Wexford Town quay

Just wondering out-loud if such an idea would be stopped by some form of safety regulation, preventing people from going *along* the track, as opposed to across it (or something silly along those lines). I hope I'm wrong with that.

I myself can't see a practical reason not to create crossings like this at pinch-points on the WRC (Phase 2). With appropriate alarms and signage, it should be as safe as a level crossing, or as you mention, Wexford town quay. If both Greenway and WRC ever come to exist together on that stretch, it would be really interesting to see such a solution used.

corktina

i dont see you'd need alarms...a great noisy train invading the peace and quiet of a bike path should be self evident, especially if it is obliged to "SW" and only common sense should be needed for the cyclists to obey signs to keep out of its way.

i doubt that common sense would prevail with the Planners though!

dowlingm

corktina wrote: »

why on earth would you think that? Its would be exactly the same as a level crossing only more linear.Think of the LUAS...or Wexford Town quay

5mph running? (Wexford Quay rail speed limit) I know the WRC was largely built to light rail quality but that's excessive

As for the Greenways - there will be at least some maintenance required - weed clearing, mowing, whatever on the Newport-Mulranny. Who will be writing cheques to pay for that? (serious question)

corktina

dowlingm wrote: »

5mph running? (Wexford Quay rail speed limit) I know the WRC was largely built to light rail quality but that's excessive

As for the Greenways - there will be at least some maintenance required - weed clearing, mowing, whatever on the Newport-Mulranny. Who will be writing cheques to pay for that? (serious question)

why not? 5mph through any pinch points if deemd necessary,so long as you are happy to have the same limits applied at all rail crossings nationwide.

dowlingm

But in the case of the Greenways isn't the point that such tramways would essentially constitute their entire length? Am I missing something?

corktina

yep we're only talking about any pinch points that may be present.theres plaenty of room along 99% of any single line to run a cycle path alongside.



bad example perhaops as its narra guage but im sure i'll find more examples later

corktina

camel trail in Cornwall, alongside the preserved steam line Bodmin and wenford railway I think its called this week

westtip

like this one posted many times before - how I make this appear in a post without requiring a click has always been a mystery to me...

walking by the railway.jpg

corktina

there you go

dowlingm

Yeah but that's the UK. Persuading the Irish rail safety fellas might be a tougher one.

Judgement Day

dowlingm wrote: »

Yeah but that's the UK. Persuading the Irish rail safety fellas might be a tougher one.

And it would have to be pallisade fencing too.

westtip

dowlingm wrote: »

Yeah but that's the UK. Persuading the Irish rail safety fellas might be a tougher one.

Of course we would have to make it too complicated, instead of just getting on with it - it would have been a great option for the line from Athenry to Ennis - this is where WOT fall down - had they grasped the nettle that this option would actually encourage more people to use the rail line - cycle/walk one way and train it back - but alas the vision is not there.

corktina

and of course "seeing the train" is a great way to get young to a)cycle and b) be trainspotters/potential passengers. Frre publicity fro IE to each Greenway user alongside the train track

dowlingm

corktina wrote: »

and of course "seeing the train" is a great way to get young to a)cycle and b) be trainspotters/potential passengers. Frre publicity fro IE to each Greenway user alongside the train track

Given the timber traffic has restarted from Westport, the above referred to kids might see something other than a DMU at one end of the Greenway there - if Claremorris-Collooney was greenwayed the west end would have container traffic too

westtip

John Mulligan who wrote the excellent piece in the Independent recently about Greenways in Ireland within 3 minute of his time on the John Murray show he mentioned the Claremorris/collooney greenway

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/thejohnmurrayshow/#Podcasts

its worth a listen.

westtip

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0818/1224302640219.html

piece in Irish Times about encroachment on the Limerick Tralee line upon which a voluntary group is trying to build a greenway. Usual laziness and incompetence from the councils and from IE about not protecting what after all belongs to us:

The same situation of course applies on several places along the GREENWAY ROUTE of from Claremorris to Collooney.

Minister urged to act over CIÉ land row
In this section »
Fastnet race yacht righted after several attemptsAlert radio beacons were of no use to sinkings boats, inquiries findFarmer killed by fall from bales of hay€250m transport plan for midwestFRANK McDONALD, Environment Editor

MINISTER FOR Transport and Tourism Leo Varadkar has been urged to intervene with the board of CIÉ to assert ownership of a disused railway line in Co Limerick, which is being developed as a walking and cycling route.

Great Southern Trail Ltd, the voluntary group spearheading the scheme, has expressed concern that CIÉ has taken no effective action against a local farmer whose slatted cattle shed they maintain encroaches on CIÉ’s property.

“I think it’s a scandal that CIÉ don’t protect their property”, said Liam O’Mahony, one of the group’s founders. “The farmer concerned has put gates on the old railway line and . . . incorporated 500m of it into his farmyard”.

The site is located at Coolybrown, near Ardagh, on an undeveloped section of the route between Rathkeale and Newcastle West. “If this is not dealt with, it will compromise our plans to transform the line into a public amenity”, he warned.

Mr O’Mahony said CIÉ’s “tardy” approach in dealing with the issue was “unfair” to Great Southern Trail volunteers who had invested so much effort over the past 20 years in developing 35km of the route, at an estimated cost of €1 million.

When farmer John Dowling sought planning permission for the slatted shed in 2007, a Limerick County Council planner indicated it was to be built on the southern side of the disused line, whereas most of his farm buildings were on the northern side.

The planner noted that it was council policy to “retain and protect the former Limerick-Tralee railway line from further development” and said the proposed slatted shed should be “relocated . . . adjacent to the existing cluster of farm buildings”.

Limerick West TD Niall Collins, now Fianna Fáil spokesman on the environment and local government, sent a letter to the council on Mr Dowling’s behalf urging that permission be granted; it was the only such representation made.

The council later approved the scheme as proposed. Only after the slatted shed was built did a concern arise over whether it encroached on CIÉ’s property – “yet we waited a year for them to get an engineer to walk it”, Mr O’Mahony said.

In a letter last March to the council’s director of planning, Tom Enright, Great Southern Trail Ltd pointed out that the slatted shed was built some four metres north of the approved location and that boundaries with the old railway line were removed.

The council said it issued a warning letter to Mr Dowling on May 10th last for non-compliance with the terms of his permission. He “informed the council that he would be making a planning application to resolve this matter but to date has not done so”. CIÉ said it was “very supportive” of the Great Southern Trail, and its preference was to achieve a resolution to the issue “which would be acceptable to all parties without recourse to the legal arena”.

Attempts to contact Mr Dowling were unsuccessful.

They issue warning letters etc but the show just goes on - no doubt they wil give a retrospective planning permission - looks like it will head to An bord Pleanala - more trouble and effort for a voluntary group to deal with - but it just goes to show the level of laziness in IE - they were supposed to preserve and protect the line (just as they are on the claremorris/collooney greenway route), but they just haven't done their job. Ah well those responsible probably drawing a good pension at this stage...

Jehuty42

Maybe it's just me, but I'd blame the FF man and the council rather than CIE for this. It's the very definition of parochial corruption.

serfboard

Jehuty42 wrote: »

Maybe it's just me, but I'd blame the FF man and the council rather than CIE for this. It's the very definition of parochial corruption.

No it's not just you. The fault is definitely with the council. CIE as owner of the land should have ensured that it's property wasn't interfered with, but since they couldn't care less about it, they didn't.

When the encroachment was pointed out to the council, they dallied on checking it, and then didn't enforce their original permission.

Meanwhile, the hand of a rule-bending Fianna Failer is never too far from the damage, and land-grabbing f**kers seemingly get away with it.

And by the way, this isn't the only place that this has been done on this former line, and as Westtip points out, on other lines too.

Victor

Aren't there telecoms cables on that line?

westtip

serfboard wrote: »

No it's not just you. The fault is definitely with the council. CIE as owner of the land should have ensured that it's property wasn't interfered with, but since they couldn't care less about it, they didn't.

When the encroachment was pointed out to the council, they dallied on checking it, and then didn't enforce their original permission.

Meanwhile, the hand of a rule-bending Fianna Failer is never too far from the damage, and land-grabbing f**kers seemingly get away with it.

And by the way, this isn't the only place that this has been done on this former line, and as Westtip points out, on other lines too.

Indeed Serf my lay of the blame would be with the councils involved although as landowners (or rather custodians of the publically owned land that is the railway), IE should have been more diligent.

The farce we have in Sligo with the Sligo Mayo Greenway route is we have many councillors puffing out their chests saying this railway must be built at all costs and no to Greenways because because (well I am not sure why actually) - as it will bring tourist Euros into the counties - and yet on the other hand they have done nothing within the council chambers of both sligo and mayo to actually stop encroachment and people building driveways over the sacred cow that is the Western Rail Corridor. when I write and ask people like the respective county managers as to why this has happened they simply reply with flannel or not at all - the number of unanswered letters I have on file sent to the county council is astonishing, but that is another story.

DWCommuter

westtip wrote: »

Indeed Serf my lay of the blame would be with the councils involved although as landowners (or rather custodians of the publically owned land that is the railway), IE should have been more diligent.

The farce we have in Sligo with the Sligo Mayo Greenway route is we have many councillors puffing out their chests saying this railway must be built at all costs and no to Greenways because because (well I am not sure why actually) - as it will bring tourist Euros into the counties - and yet on the other hand they have done nothing within the council chambers of both sligo and mayo to actually stop encroachment and people building driveways over the sacred cow that is the Western Rail Corridor. when I write and ask people like the respective county managers as to why this has happened they simply reply with flannel or not at all - the number of unanswered letters I have on file sent to the county council is astonishing, but that is another story.

Its much the same with the line to Navan. Lots of huffing and puffing from Meath CC about reopening, as they get sued by a hotel who was refused permission to build an extension on the route, while they themselves literally ram a motorway and sewer mains right through the alignment with absolutely no regard for any future reopening.:rolleyes:

westtip

DW its all about accountability in our public sector - nobody seems to have any. I am still waiting for IE and the councils to answer letters about the SMG route. My guess is the group in Limerick have the same issues by the sounds of the article in the Irish Times. Nobody is answerable, its as simple as.

eastwest

The apparent contradiction between councillors opposing greenways and at the same time failing to protect the alignment has to do with something that is never spoken about -- there is an anti-tourism sentiment in a lot of rural Ireland that is manifested as opposition to tourist infrastructure of any kind.

With regard to the clown in Limerick who has encroached on CIE property, there are ways of dealing with that. For a start, if his shed is not built according to the planning permission, he should not have claimed a grant for it and the grant may be liable to be repaid to the Department of Agriculture. Secondly, if he is running cattle on a section of the line, he is in breach of every rule in the book and can be heavily penalised by a deduction to his single farm payment. This penalty will then get bigger each year that he fails to comply.

If he has built a shed in the wrong place, he can be compelled to demolish it.

If that hard line was taken with this guy, it might make the others pull back from trying to capture publicly-owned property.

By the way, yes, there is a telecoms cable under this line; laying it a couple of years back has probably helped to reinforce CIE's right of way along the route.