Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

shamwari

westtip wrote: »

DW its all about accountability in our public sector - nobody seems to have any. ... Nobody is answerable, its as simple as.

These sentiments are something I wholeheartedly agree with. There is no cohesion or joined up thinking in anything that is done here. I was half hoping that the IMF intervening would in itself had spelt the end of different camps doing their own things in cynical and manifestly inefficient ways. Somehow, I don't think this is going to happen, and in keeping with time honoured traditions, the wasteful "Irish way of doing things" will continue to prevail. :rolleyes:

omah

These greenways are a great idea - more please!

omah

Just travelled from Ennis to Athenry - really enjoyed the train journey - beats driving!

westtip

omah wrote: »

Just travelled from Ennis to Athenry - really enjoyed the train journey - beats driving!

Unfortunately Omah we cannot afford infrastructure to satisfy a few peoples preference on the enjoyment scale, you are truly one of the chosen few to be able to travel on this line, it has been massively under subscribed in terms of users that were expected in the business case made for it, but I like your comments about Greenways and believe the Ennis Athenry rail line would have had increased patronage had a parallel greenway been put in alongside it from day one. see the photo of what could have been achieved a few posts back. Glad to hear you enjoyed your train ride, the subvention from the state for your one trip could have been in excess of €100.

corktina

omah wrote: »

Just travelled from Ennis to Athenry - really enjoyed the train journey - beats driving!

good man for patronising the line....how busy was it?

dubhthach

Given opposition to Greenway from Claremorris to Collooney perhaps relevant groups should concentrate on "Claremorris to Ballinrobe" as a proof of concept in the area. Most of the alignment seems intact from looking at Google Earth, another line not too far is the old Ballaghdereen branch, especially where it passes west of Lough Gara.

westtip

dubhthach wrote: »

Given opposition to Greenway from Claremorris to Collooney perhaps relevant groups should concentrate on "Claremorris to Ballinrobe" as a proof of concept in the area. Most of the alignment seems intact from looking at Google Earth, another line not too far is the old Ballaghdereen branch, especially where it passes west of Lough Gara.

The concept has been proven with 4,000 miles of Greenways opened in the last ten years in the UK, which has massively bolstered UK tourism not to mention the benefits to locals living near the huge network of greenways they have, with a long standing greenway network across European countries and with the massive success story we have on the Great Western Greenway. The concept in the area does not need to be proven - that has been done.

The two lines you mentioned are already been eyed up and surveyed by Mayo County council as far as I am aware, and the wheels have been set in motion. The Sligo mayo greenway is an arterial greenway to connect with the greenway proposed on the old Leitrim/sligo line and hopefully to connnect with a Greenway network on the old donegal lines. It is an important part of the tourism/leisure greenway network this country is crying out for - the reinstatement of an old rail alignment that has known major engineering issues - and no one to use it (an aside - oh build a rail line where there is no demand or need - brilliant idea), is a side show at this stage, the proposed greenway on this route is far more important to the local economy. Re the opposition - it is a dwindling bunch of local politicians with a vested interest in keeping the whole campaign show on the road. its called the expenses gravy train. The people living on this route and in the counties of Sligo and mayo are at long last beginning to see the sense of Greenways and in particular the huge potential benefit the Sligo mayo greenway wil bring - we wont take our focus off the sligo mayo greenway campaign and sit and watch the weeds grow along the line for another 25 years and further encroachment - the SMG Campaign will continue to pressurise this government to "grasp the nettle"

foggy_lad

Could some local greenway group start organising walks along the old rail line for saturday or Sunday afternoons or would the walkers all be arrested for trespassing?

dubhthach

westtip wrote: »

The concept has been proven with 4,000 miles of Greenways opened in the last ten years in the UK, with a long standing greenway network across European countries and with the massive success story we have on the Great Western Greenway. The two lines you mentioned are already been eyed up and surveyed by Mayo County council as far as I am aware, and the wheels have been set in motion. The Sligo mayo greenway is an arterial greenway to connect with the greenway proposed on the old Leitrim/sligo line and hopefully to connnect with a Greenway network on the old donegal lines. It is an important part of the tourism/leisure greenway network this country is crying out for - the reinstatement of an old rail alignment that has known major engineering issues - and no one to use it (an aside - oh build a rail line where there is no demand or need - brilliant idea), is a side show at this stage, the proposed greenway on this route is far more important to the local economy. Re the opposition - it is a dwindling bunch of local politicians with a vested interest in keeping the whole campaign show on the road. its called the expenses gravy train.

I'm in agreement with the greenway, however my point is I don't think the local politicos will move on it until they actually see other areas benefiting from presence of Greenways etc. This is one reason why the proposed Galway <-> Cliftden one will provide a great example.

You could potentially have a greenway linking from Claremorris (or even Ballinrobe) all the way over to Dundalk via Enniskillen, Clones etc.

westtip

dubhthach wrote: »

I'm in agreement with the greenway, however my point is I don't think the local politicos will move on it until they actually see other areas benefiting from presence of Greenways etc. This is one reason why the proposed Galway <-> Cliftden one will provide a great example.

You could potentially have a greenway linking from Claremorris (or even Ballinrobe) all the way over to Dundalk via Enniskillen, Clones etc.

But as I said the proof is already there in the Great Western Greenway the start of which is less than 25 miles from Claremorris, people are flocking to the west to use this facility from Dublin and other points in Ireland adn foreign tourists are coming in to use it as well, yes we know about the linkages to Enniskillen this is what we want to achieve which is why the SMG is so important as a link for a number of greenway routes and why its been campaigned for, the local politicos - or at least those that have modicum of vision are moving on it, the SMGreenway does have support amongst many Mayo and sligo councillors and TDs in the area - they just havn't stood up and faced those that stand up and shout about the holy (g)rail. Galway Clifden will be a huge success in the meantime Sligo and Mayo councils will sit with the fingers up their a*ses waiting for a train to come along.

trail man

To all GST contacts:
In the attached article Mr.Gerry Sheerin, Limerick Co.Co. planner states that the Council is a 'partner' in the GST project. One could agree that this was indeed true with respect to the handling of application 07/1592 [<http://www.lcc.ie/ePlan/InternetEnquiry/rpt_ViewApplicDetails.asp?validFileNum=1&app_num_file=071592>] until 23 July 2007.
On that day, having considered the application received several weeks earlier and having perused the previous planning history of that location it was the considered judgement of two planners that the proposal was contra to the protection afforded the railway route in the County Plan. Therefore, they wrote to Mr.Dowling asking him to relocate the proposed building to the other side of the railway.
One week later, instead of receiving a new plan, the Co.Co. was presented with a copy of historic material already on file. This obviously added nothing to the sum total of the knowledge already available to the planners. Yet this 'ZERO SUM' must have been so compelling, conclusive and convincing to those within the confines of the Planning section that , within 24 hours, they executed a complete and total volte-face by approving the unamended application despite its conflict with the County Plan.
The building was then constructed but deviated from the permission granted thereby impacting even more negatively on the railway.
The expeditious and decisive action by the Council , on 31 July 2007, in acceding to Mr.Dowling's application has certainly not been noticeable during the past 24 weeks (not hours) since the GST alerted the planners to the clear and obvious breach of the 2007 planning permission. Instead we have Mr.Sheerin describing it as 'a small deviation'. Fine, perhaps, if it happened in the centre of a large agricultural field. Not so fine if it happened at the face of an urban street or footpath which is the relevant comparison in this instance.
Liam O Mahony
Cathaoirleach
Great Southern Trail
29/8/11

westtip

trail man wrote: »

To all GST contacts:
In the attached article Mr.Gerry Sheerin, Limerick Co.Co. planner states that the Council is a 'partner' in the GST project. One could agree that this was indeed true with respect to the handling of application 07/1592 [<http://www.lcc.ie/ePlan/InternetEnquiry/rpt_ViewApplicDetails.asp?validFileNum=1&app_num_file=071592>] until 23 July 2007.
On that day, having considered the application received several weeks earlier and having perused the previous planning history of that location it was the considered judgement of two planners that the proposal was contra to the protection afforded the railway route in the County Plan. Therefore, they wrote to Mr.Dowling asking him to relocate the proposed building to the other side of the railway.
One week later, instead of receiving a new plan, the Co.Co. was presented with a copy of historic material already on file. This obviously added nothing to the sum total of the knowledge already available to the planners. Yet this 'ZERO SUM' must have been so compelling, conclusive and convincing to those within the confines of the Planning section that , within 24 hours, they executed a complete and total volte-face by approving the unamended application despite its conflict with the County Plan.
The building was then constructed but deviated from the permission granted thereby impacting even more negatively on the railway.
The expeditious and decisive action by the Council , on 31 July 2007, in acceding to Mr.Dowling's application has certainly not been noticeable during the past 24 weeks (not hours) since the GST alerted the planners to the clear and obvious breach of the 2007 planning permission. Instead we have Mr.Sheerin describing it as 'a small deviation'. Fine, perhaps, if it happened in the centre of a large agricultural field. Not so fine if it happened at the face of an urban street or footpath which is the relevant comparison in this instance.
Liam O Mahony
Cathaoirleach
Great Southern Trail
29/8/11

Do you know what some things about this country make me want to vomit. The actions of some of our planners is high on the list. Shame on all those involved in this in Limerick county council

dowlingm

would like to make it clear I am no relation to this landgrabbing plonker.

trail man

Thats good to clear the air...:cool:..Then..never said that you were..

pigtown

corktina wrote: »

good man for patronising the line....how busy was it?

I got the train from Limerick on ladies day of the Galway races. By the time we got to Galway there must have been twenty or so people standing in our carriage. I think it was a three carriage train but I wasn't paying that much attention.
Unfortunately, on the way home on Friday there must have been about twenty people on the entire train, including an unfortunate Dutch couple who intended on getting the train to Rosslare. The conductor soon gave them his best advice (don't bother with the train, it will take all day).

westtip

pigtown wrote: »

I got the train from Limerick on ladies day of the Galway races. By the time we got to Galway there must have been twenty or so people standing in our carriage. I think it was a three carriage train but I wasn't paying that much attention.
Unfortunately, on the way home on Friday there must have been about twenty people on the entire train, including an unfortunate Dutch couple who intended on getting the train to Rosslare. The conductor soon gave them his best advice (don't bother with the train, it will take all day).

Interesting anecdotal figures - but I am afraid building a heavy railway to cope with one weeks racing whilst the rest of the year has such low patronage is not the answer, 20 people on the train on a Friday! a peak day for travelling I am just waiting for that wet tuesday in November when it runs empty. To justify the investment in a heavy railway such as the WRC you need a proven year round demand and need, there isn't one and that has been much debated on this thread. For Galway race week the solution is called more buses. The story about the dutch couple is just sheer bloody amusement, you really can't add to the comment by the IE employee. Brilliant farce.

pigtown

westtip wrote: »

The story about the dutch couple is just sheer bloody amusement, you really can't add to the comment by the IE employee. Brilliant farce.

Well I kind of summarised what he said. He did give them the info they needed to get the train- my own googling shows why he advised them to get the bus.

Limerick- Limerick Junction 30mins
Wait in Limerick Junction 15mins
Limerick Junction- Heuston 2hrs 15mins
Heuston- Connolly 45mins
Wait in Connolly 10mins
Connolly- Rosslare3hrs
Total time 6hrs 55mins

They wouldn't get into Rosslare until 9:30p.m. God only knows why there is no direct Limerick- Waterford service on a Friday.

highlydebased

pigtown wrote: »

Well I kind of summarised what he said. He did give them the info they needed to get the train- my own googling shows why he advised them to get the bus.

Limerick- Limerick Junction 30mins
Wait in Limerick Junction 15mins
Limerick Junction- Heuston 2hrs 15mins
Heuston- Connolly 45mins
Wait in Connolly 10mins
Connolly- Rosslare3hrs
Total time 6hrs 55mins

They wouldn't get into Rosslare until 9:30p.m. God only knows why there is no direct Limerick- Waterford service on a Friday.

There's no direct Limerick-Waterford service any day. It involves changing at Limk Junction regardless. Even if there was such a train- there is no train to Rosslare from Waterford anymore!

foggy_lad

highlydebased wrote: »

There's no direct Limerick-Waterford service any day. It involves changing at Limk Junction regardless. Even if there was such a train- there is no train to Rosslare from Waterford anymore!

But there is a bus from Waterford to Rosslare Europort

dowlingm

foggy_lad wrote: »

But there is a bus from Waterford to Rosslare Europort

Not one you can get an Irish Rail ticket for, or which serves the Irish Rail station.

westtip

I think the best advice of that Guard above would hav been to send them Hertz.

pigtown

highlydebased wrote: »

There's no direct Limerick-Waterford service any day. It involves changing at Limk Junction regardless. Even if there was such a train- there is no train to Rosslare from Waterford anymore!

I used the wrong word here. I knew there was no direct service but on the IR website the route they told me to take was via Dublin. Does this mean there isn't even a connecting service along Limerick Junction- Waterford line? If it does then there really is no justification for CIE to exist in it's present setup. And I say CIE because as the parent company they have ultimate responsibility.

highlydebased

pigtown wrote: »

I used the wrong word here. I knew there was no direct service but on the IR website the route they told me to take was via Dublin. Does this mean there isn't even a connecting service along Limerick Junction- Waterford line? If it does then there really is no justification for CIE to exist in it's present setup. And I say CIE because as the parent company they have ultimate responsibility.

Well, if you leave Limerick at 0755, 1255 or 1800 you can connect at Limk Junction to the Waterford train. About a 20 minute wait there though. Otherwise you will need to go via Kildare/Heuston

westtip

Anyway to get back on track so to say - an excellent letter in the Western People today

Greenway, not a railway, will bring in tourists
Your editorial on August 9thlast headlining the success of the Great Western Greenway (GWG) was optimistic and good. The same editorial continued to support the idea of a railway rather than a greenway on the northern section of the Western Rail Corridor (WRC) from Claremorris to Collooney saying it would be “real shame” for it to be taken out of commission. With no passengers since 1963, or freight since the 1970s, and lots of encroachment on the line, it is effectively already out of commission. You said the campaign for a greenway on this section of the WRC was “a distraction”. I don’t agree.



The McCann report (2005) into the proposed re-opening of the WRC identified Claremorris - Collooney as difficult to justify on grounds of engineering issues, cost and demographics. The report was the basis for government policy on the WRC. No commitment was made by the last government nor this one to re-open the Claremorris - Collooney line. We need realism in expectations; especially today.

A greenway on this route would deliver jobs today. It would protect the alignment of the railway preventing further encroachment in the event that a railway ever becomes feasible.

Proven economic benefits of greenways, mean there is a cost/benefit argument to say a greenway in such close proximity of Knock Airport would succeed. Imagine this: Tourists landing in Knock, renting a bike in Charlestown cycling toward Sligo, to connect with a Sligo North Leitrim Greenway – an idea being considered on the Sligo North Leitrim railway or toward Claremorris and then on a new greenway from Claremorris to Westport to connect with the Great Western Greenway? Tired Hungry Tourists.


People come to the West of Ireland because of what it offers for them to do when they get here – their destination choice is not based on whether they can get a train from Athenry to Charlestown to get the flight home.

The success of the Great Western Greenway is clear; it should be the catalyst for a greenway network in the West. In the UK, cycling tourism has boomed since the commitment to a national network of interconnected greenways. A survey Failte Ireland conducted in 2006 showed how far we lagged behind in this area; we are playing catch up with other countries; competitors.

Sligo-Mayo Greenway campaign is not “a distraction” it’s a realistic idea to deliver leisure/tourism infrastructure cost effectively. It’s not just tourism: Children and adults living here deserve safe routes to cycle and walk without fear.

Campaigning to reinstate a railway not used by passengers since 1963 which would require huge investment and annual subventions, is more of “a distraction” in current economic circumstances. A 70 km greenway for minimal investment would show immediate benefits. Just ask some hotels along the route: I have. The response is usually: Yes please, when? Hoteliers know the value of Tired Hungry Tourists. Sligo Mayo Greenway is a “no brainer”, let’s support it!


Brendan Quinn

Sligo-Mayo Greenway Campaign

www.sligomayogreenway.com

Facebook: Sligomayogreenwaycampaign

All the arguments we have seen on these boards before but good to see the Western People who have been bastions of support for the Western Rail corridor allowing a different opinion to be expressed.

dowlingm

It would be nice if someone could get some pro bono engineering drawings done of how a greenway could be accommodated on the Westport-Claremorris line. A person could cycle the greenway one way and get the train back in the other, plus it would burst the objection that greenway is incompatible with reinstating rail. If the greenway ran from Achill to Claremorris the notion of extending it towards Collooney would be hard to resist, surely.

Jim Martin

Everything is changing so fast in the world with recession which increasingly looks like turning into a depression, that everything possible must be done to retain & build new railways to contribute to a sustainable world. Increasingly more people are finding that they can no longer afford to run a car so let' s stop this nonsense of 'greenways'!

teol

Jim Martin wrote: »

Everything is changing so fast in the world with recession which increasingly looks like turning into a depression, that everything possible must be done to retain & build new railways to contribute to a sustainable world. Increasingly more people are finding that they can no longer afford to run a car so let' s stop this nonsense of 'greenways'!

I highlighted "sustainable" in your post. The WRC is not sustainable. It is contributing to higher rail fares and higher taxes on everyone.

corktina

Jim Martin wrote: »

Everything is changing so fast in the world with recession which increasingly looks like turning into a depression, that everything possible must be done to retain & build new railways to contribute to a sustainable world. Increasingly more people are finding that they can no longer afford to run a car so let' s stop this nonsense of 'greenways'!

people who cant afford a car might appreciate a cycleway surely.,

Oh and people who cant afford cars almost certainly wont be able to afford trains either, seeing as they are more expensive to travel on than cars are.

Oh and what makes you think a train is more sustainable than a bike or sustainable AT ALL.

There, thats throughly rubbished that post I think...

Jim Martin

corktina wrote: »

people who cant afford a car might appreciate a cycleway surely.,

Oh and people who cant afford cars almost certainly wont be able to afford trains either, seeing as they are more expensive to travel on than cars are.

Oh and what makes you think a train is more sustainable than a bike or sustainable AT ALL.

There, thats throughly rubbished that post I think...

What isn't sustainable today - could possibly be tomorrow - how can we be certain of anything?

corktina

well one thing IS certain. We dont have any money. There is NO money to rebuild or indeed BUILD railway lines and some of those we have now are not going to last many more months.

IE have squandered their chance to build a network able to compete with the new Motorways, did they not see it coming?