Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

dermo88

Dear Wote

I quote from the following post:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80706366

In my case I work in central London, a distance of 12km from where I live in Outer London. I travel into work by train.

So in response, please excuse my initial flippant reference to Father Ted. I could easily get the claws out and use various banned words and phrases (refer to the charter) so that you can indulge in rural railway rovers across a country whose geographical layout you may understand only in arcane theories discussed with railway enthusiasts who sometimes have ideas, notions and nostalgia for Black and Orange bangers in the 1980's. Yes, I like 071s, locomotive haulage, and the likes, but I am sane and rational enough to know what is possible, and whats a dream. These are items that do not attract regular users to a system
Wote


So you found some figures to back up your anti rail agenda. Take a pat on the head.

There is a longer game being played with the WRC, in that ultimately it will connect up Cork with Sligo by rail and maybe even Donegal at a later stage.

The Maynooth line took a number of years to build up custom and so too will the WRC when it is properly expanded. Watch this space.

- Neither corktina, westtip or other posters are anti rail. Some of them were actually committee members on Platform11 or railusers.ie. That is their background, that is their expertise. They have been here since 2005, and I'd like to show you their background first, and explain what has occurred.

Their intention was to get Iarnrod Eireann to use International best practice for their system.

Their intention was to get the existing system to function, survive and thrive.

Their intention was to promote the expansion of routes with serious long term potential, with electrification where traffic densities justified it. These were/are:

(a) Cork-Midleton
(b) DART Underground
(c) Dublin-Navan
(d) Dublin Airport rail link.

To name 4 immediately, with more likely besides.

Their intention was not to endanger this long term development by pandering to a rural railway lobby, who were conceded to, and the result of that concession is that the Irish based consumer ultimately suffers through higher fuel taxes, higher public transport costs, fewer quality services where they are actually needed. Meanwhile those who rejoice in the construction of the Western Rail corridor are so myopic and far removed from the reality of real railway transport where it is about mass movement and efficiency.

It was not to cater to 'Bashers' who might get an all line rover in July or August, travel out of Dublin, and go from Cork-Sligo. The history of that line was that it was a light railway on the Northern stretch, and never carried a paying amount of traffic even when it had a traffic monopoly.

A good railway caters for frequent users, has high speeds, links large urban population centers, carries plenty of freight, and is intensely used. And that is the opposite of all that the Western Railway corridor is.

I should finally point out, in case you are not aware that a massive recession has done grave damage to the Irish economy, and that every Euro in spending is now being analysed. One item being analysed is the railway network. The Western Railway Corridor is more or less as many of us predicted from 2004 onwards. That its failure, would justify the failure and closure of much of the remaining network. Traffic levels on the existing system have fallen by 25% as disposable incomes, fuel costs, taxation, and more squeeze a hard pressed population.

This is quite the opposite of your desire, which is to see it extended into Donegal. Building a railway into Donegal is not feasible. Its occasionally raised by a county councillor TD or MP fishing for votes. It would be 'nice' to have, but beyond that 'nice', thats all it is. Nice.

Please do ponder these points, and tell us why we are 'anti rail'. We are not anti rail. We are anti fail rail. Statistics are the only thing we have at our disposal to provide evidence. These statistics are far more effective than a Sim City Tsar drawing lines upon a map because they look tidy and fill a gap.

Finally, welcome to boards, transport and railways section. Its been a very long time since anyone was brave enough to propose building a railway into Donegal from Sligo. Seeing as you are a new poster, I've tried to be reasonably polite.

corktina

Wote wrote: »

So too are Galway and Limerick following your logic.

NOONE in their right mind would travel Cork to Sligo via the WRC anymore than anyone would ever travell Galway to Limerick via Portarlington. Hardly anyone travels between those cities by rail now that €106 million has been wasted rebuilding a slightly less indirect line.(unless they have a free pass I suspect)

popebenny16

dermo88 wrote: »

Some of them were actually committee members on Platform11 or railusers.ie.

that shower of losers.....

actually none of the people dermo mentions have been committee members of P11/RUI as far as I know

passengers on the WRC are passengers, and RUI I am sure is happy to help them out, just like anyone else.

as for Mr Wote, well, there is nothing wrong with wanting a railway to Donegal, there is nothing wrong with people not wanting one either given the very limited resources that we are dealing with.

I think we should perhaps concentrate our efforts on keeping what we have at the moment.

The Idyll Race

popebenny16 wrote: »

that shower of losers.....

actually none of the people dermo mentions have been committee members of P11/RUI as far as I know

passengers on the WRC are passengers, and RUI I am sure is happy to help them out, just like anyone else.

as for Mr Wote, well, there is nothing wrong with wanting a railway to Donegal, there is nothing wrong with people not wanting one either given the very limited resources that we are dealing with.

I think we should perhaps concentrate our efforts on keeping what we have at the moment.

Don't understand the hysterical robust reaction to any suggestion of change that would expand the usage of the railways, unless the Regulars are terrified of journalists or politicians taking up any suggestions made here - highly unlikely I would have thought.

Wote

Let's just first clear one thing up from dermo's highly personal attack on me.

I am not some English enthusiast who comes to Ireland twice a year for a run behind an 071. I am Irish.

I was born and brought up in Dublin from a Donegal background. I have worked in Railway Infrastructure projects for the last 20 years and know the value of a rail line, even when others with their own agendas don't.

I worked directly in the restoration of the East London Line when others said it was a white elephant - worked on the Thameslink programme, the Heathrow Express project and many others.

It's a crying shame that the Irish Government does not see the value of its railway network. It doesn't help that there appear to be more than a few shrill voices from armchair "enthusiasts" that want to Butcher what remains of Ireland's already skeletal rail network.

The top priority is getting speed upgrades onto the existing network so rail travel times always beat legal road travel times. That is the first priority. However rail connections aren't a simple profit or loss investment like a budget airline. Many rail investments take years to pay off but in the long term they always do.

I'm sad but not surprised to read childish petulant responses to my posts. That is unfortunately part of life on internet boards. However I'm happy to let you all stew on, safe in the knowledge that not one thing we say here actually matters.

westtip

Wote wrote: »

So you found some figures to back up your anti rail agenda. Take a pat on the head.

There is a longer game being played with the WRC, in that ultimately it will connect up Cork with Sligo by rail and maybe even Donegal at a later stage.

The Maynooth line took a number of years to build up custom and so too will the WRC when it is properly expanded. Watch this space.

Ha bloody ha. A railway from Cork to Sligo and on to donegal!!. Another one lands on boards.ie from cloud cuckoo land.

Sorry my friend I am not "anti rail" I would like to have seen the 106 million spent on the WRC double tracking say Galway to Athlone.

I didn't find figures to back an anti rail agenda - I merely showed the figures that are available - and which WOT knew about were conveniently left out of their press release - they forgot to say 50% increase of very little is still very little. My views on the WRC are quite simple - nowhere in Europe are they re-opening branch lines through rural areas. And why this constant comparison of the WRC with Maynooth or the DART or LUAS? For WRC to build up custom it needs a certain thing Maynooth has - people. There simply ain't enough people to justify. Saying the thing wouldn't work, see the thing doesn't work and proposing something that will work (Greenway), is not anti rail - its just a recognition that we simply don't need a railway on the WRC.

lets put it in simple words. It's a waste of bloody money.

The Idyll Race

westtip wrote: »

Ha bloody ha. A railway from Cork to Sligo and on to donegal!!. Another one lands on boards.ie from cloud cuckoo land.

Sorry my friend I am not "anti rail" I would like to have seen the 106 million spent on the WRC double tracking say Galway to Athlone.

I didn't find figures to back an anti rail agenda - I merely showed the figures that are available - and which WOT knew about were conveniently left out of their press release - they forgot to say 50% increase of very little is still very little. My views on the WRC are quite simple - nowhere in Europe are they re-opening branch lines through rural areas. And why this constant comparison of the WRC with Maynooth or the DART or LUAS? For WRC to build up custom it needs a certain thing Maynooth has - people. There simply ain't enough people to justify. Saying the thing wouldn't work, see the thing doesn't work and proposing something that will work (Greenway), is not anti rail - its just a recognition that we simply don't need a railway on the WRC.

lets put it in simple words. It's a waste of bloody money.

Not only would you want to be brave, you'd want the hide of a rhinocerous to post opinions - and that's what they are, not Holy Scripture - contrary to the anti WRC and even rail expansion groupthink.

I note that you said

I have written to several politicians and told them they are brain dead - but they haven't sued me....

Was that before or after the adoption of the Sligo County Development Plan? In either case, if it was members of Sligo CC you called

brain dead

you will have been filed under the Mr Angry Crank file and will have no further input to any County Development Plan.

markpb

Wote wrote: »

I am not some English enthusiast who comes to Ireland twice a year for a run behind an 071. I am Irish. I was born and brought up in Dublin from a Donegal background. I have worked in Railway Infrastructure projects for the last 20 years

He suggested you don't live or pay taxes in Ireland and therefore should have less of a say in how we spend our money.

I worked directly in the restoration of the East London Line when others said it was a white elephant - worked on the Thameslink programme, the Heathrow Express project and many others.

Those projects all took place in a highly urbanised area where rail makes sense. Talking about Galway and Donegal in the same conversation as Intercity rail does not.

corktina

markpb wrote: »

Those projects all took place in a highly urbanised area where rail makes sense. Talking about Galway and Donegal in the same conversation as Intercity rail does not.

exactly. Your rail experience has no correaltion to an Irish scenario, not even to Dublin Commuter. Promoting rail to Donegal (particularly at the expense of someone else taxes), is extraordinary.

The Idyll Race

corktina wrote: »

exactly. Your rail experience has no correaltion to an Irish scenario, not even to Dublin Commuter. Promoting rail to Donegal (particularly at the expense of someone else taxes), is extraordinary.

I really don't believe that your opinion on railways can be taken seriously when your stated belief is

long long ago we used to walk everywhere unless we could afford a horse to walk for us. If we were very rich we could hitch a couple of horses to a wagon and travel that way and that spawned the Stage Coach which plyed the rutted roads until Turnpikes were invented, another improvement. Then someone had the bright idea of building a road out of water and then these "canals" as they were called were superceded by Railways which did the job much better until the Motor Car was invented and roads improved dramatically to take them. No doubt something new will come along to replace the motor car but it sure as hell wont be Turnpikes Canals or Railways...

to the authors of documents like that in the OP, Give it up lads...look forward not back or we'll all be walking again (not in itself such a bad idea and could be the answer when the "Information Super Highway" removes the need for travel )

Our man in Havana

Lads yee chased him away.

dermo88

Wote:
Let's just first clear one thing up from dermo's highly personal attack on me.

I am not some English enthusiast who comes to Ireland twice a year for a run behind an 071. I am Irish.

My apologies. I have an instinctive distrust of those with theories, including those recent ones regarding reforming CIE which had notions I had before, but which I have had to adjust as I learned.

I was born and brought up in Dublin from a Donegal background. I have worked in Railway Infrastructure projects for the last 20 years and know the value of a rail line, even when others with their own agendas don't.


We know the value of a rail line, even when it is a financial lossmaker. The basis for sustainability is a 25% return minimum on the farebox, or 1,000 passengers per kilometer per annum. Which ever is greater wins.

I worked directly in the restoration of the East London Line when others said it was a white elephant - worked on the Thameslink programme, the Heathrow Express project and many others.

Both of which are very very sustainable and carry massive amounts of traffic. They are people carriers, far superior to roads.

It's a crying shame that the Irish Government does not see the value of its railway network. It doesn't help that there appear to be more than a few shrill voices from armchair "enthusiasts" that want to Butcher what remains of Ireland's already skeletal rail network.

Edited version:

The Irish Government DOES see the value of its network. If it did not, then why in the past 15 years has there been

(a) A VAST increase in frequencies on all routes
(b) Massive renewal of track and signalling
(c) Complete renewal of rolling stock

You then call many of us with the statistical information you disagree with, call them "shrill armchair enthusiasts". What are you sir? A Sim City Tsar?

As for the network being skeletal, using statistical information of the lowest common denominator, which is meters of route rail per person per square kilometer, Irelands network bears similarity to the densities applicable in Norway, Sweden, Finland, Scotland, which have one, or a few urban centres, with a dispersed rural populace. On a map....yes, it looks skeletal. Overlay that over population density, another story emerges, and four towns emerge that it would be nice to serve.

(a) Letterkenny
(b) Navan
(c) Strabane
(d) Omagh

BUT.....I've been around the world and I've seen cities of 100,000 and less function perfectly well without a railway. It would be nice if they had one, but then, we again have to use finance, maths and population to justify that:

Equation:

Which is the nearest city, to the destination, catchment population divided by the distance squared.

Unfortunately, justification for reopening Letterkenny, Omagh, and Strabane evaporates on that basis, despite my belief that the closure of Portadown-Derry in 1965, and the closures of the INWR in 1957 were also mistakes, retention and development of the existing system is the only sustainable path at present.

There would always be plans hauled out at election time to build one, only to be swiftly cancelled after once the Budget deficit uncovered to win the election was found.

The top priority is getting speed upgrades onto the existing network so rail travel times always beat legal road travel times. That is the first priority. However rail connections aren't a simple profit or loss investment like a budget airline. Many rail investments take years to pay off but in the long term they always do.

Yes for the first sentences, disagree on the last. They don't always pay off, but if the Western Rail Corridor does by 2025, I shall revisit this post on my 50th birthday and apologise. After its lost 50 Million or more Euro though.....

I'm sad but not surprised to read childish petulant responses to my posts. That is unfortunately part of life on internet boards. However I'm happy to let you all stew on, safe in the knowledge that not one thing we say here actually matters.

Childish petulant responses. I like it. This is more like the boards.ie Irishrailwaynews we had before where we did debate, and gave the hard cut and thrust. Moderators hated it, but here goes.

Ok. One thing for sure, you can't count. You wanted to clear one thing up, so you cleared five. Is that one closure or five closures, or do you wish to reopen the thread? Now my dear fellow, who is anti rail, and who is pro fail?

corktina

The Idyll Race wrote: »

I really don't believe that your opinion on railways can be taken seriously when your stated belief is

and your point is?:rolleyes:

The Idyll Race

corktina wrote: »

and your point is?:rolleyes:

This:

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly.”
Teddy Roosevelt, 1910

corktina

you've lost the ploy altogether now!

dowlingm

what did Teddy Roosevelt say about people who were warned, not merely with instinct but facts and figures, that something would be a balls and pressed ahead anyway and made a balls of it?

dermo88

The points have been reiterated frequently over the past 7 years. I'm tired of repeating them without resorting to sarcasm and getting banned unjustly again. So I'll stay quiet for a few hours until I have something polite to say.

Oh to hell with it.

To those who claim the Government was anti rail.

- The network was resignalled
- The network was relayed
- The entire passenger fleet renewed

Not perfect, but anti rail.....now the money has run out, they can't afford to be pro-rail or even pro-road. They just have to be pro-money.

Its nice to see advocates of the Western Rail Corridor emerge from their padded cells again. Its easy to provoke them, for they live in an alternate reality. Some of the arguments are funny to read again after all this time. And I'ved edited the post on page 181 to fit. As for Wote spurious claim that my attack was 'personal', please feel free to contact your friendly moderator to give me a ban.

The following strategies for dealing with anti-rail dissenters are as follows:

1. Keep reporting posts that you think are offensive, and give spurious excuses to moderators who have not got time to analyse enough and then ban in undue haste.
2. Create new innocuous words and phrases that you find offensive, and make them a banned word. Railway Taliban tactics.
3. Guess who does this.............it is the hardline enthusiasts, who cannot accept the harsh reality that their universe cannot exist.
4. Who are these that advocate the Dougal-bahn, always demand bans, and are the railway taliban?
5. Thats because they are dreamers, and dreams are not real. But in their alternate universe, Dublin is an aberration that needs to be tamed. The Jackeens take our jobs and our women. Todd Andrews is the antichrist......I could say more, but again, I risk getting banned.

In fact, its nice to see a flurry of accounts with similar sentiments being opened, such as Wote, The Idyll Race open , close, post and thank each other. It must be a thankless task for self praise is no praise as your reach the end of the road...or end of the line.

The Idyll Race

dermo88 wrote: »

The points have been reiterated frequently over the past 7 years. I'm tired of repeating them without resorting to sarcasm and getting banned unjustly again. So I'll stay quiet for a few hours until I have something polite to say.

Oh to hell with it.

To those who claim the Government was anti rail.

- The network was resignalled
- The network was relayed
- The entire passenger fleet renewed

Not perfect, but anti rail.....now the money has run out, they can't afford to be pro-rail or even pro-road. They just have to be pro-money.

Its nice to see advocates of the Western Rail Corridor emerge from their padded cells again. Its easy to provoke them, for they live in an alternate reality. Some of the arguments are funny to read again after all this time. And I'ved edited the post on page 181 to fit. As for Wote spurious claim that my attack was 'personal', please feel free to contact your friendly moderator to give me a ban.

The following strategies for dealing with anti-rail dissenters are as follows:

1. Keep reporting posts that you think are offensive, and give spurious excuses to moderators who have not got time to analyse enough and then ban in undue haste.
2. Create new innocuous words and phrases that you find offensive, and make them a banned word. Railway Taliban tactics.
3. Guess who does this.............it is the hardline enthusiasts, who cannot accept the harsh reality that their universe cannot exist.
4. Who are these that advocate the Dougal-bahn, always demand bans, and are the railway taliban?
5. Thats because they are dreamers, and dreams are not real. But in their alternate universe, Dublin is an aberration that needs to be tamed. The Jackeens take our jobs and our women. Todd Andrews is the antichrist......I could say more, but again, I risk getting banned.

In fact, its nice to see a flurry of accounts with similar sentiments being opened, such as Wote, The Idyll Race open , close, post and thank each other. It must be a thankless task for self praise is no praise as your reach the end of the road...or end of the line.

Dermo88, your imagination has no bounds. I can assure you that Wote is not me, and I haven't a clue who end of the road is. Wote isn't in a position to ask for a ban for anyone as he has closed his account. Funny how the regulars weighed in like pretend big men once he left boards because I know him in real life and he doesn't suffer fools at all. Dermo, you may be addicted to stirring, and have the bans to prove it, but it doesn't mean that everyone else wants to play your games.

Run properly, rail should be faster than road and additional services should feed additional passengers/value to the network, but it seems that even this line will not be tolerated here. I'm not leaving boards as I have other interests but frankly CAT is such a bitchy circle jerk you are welcome to it.

highlydebased

What is happening here?

corktina

The Idyll Race wrote: »

.

Run properly, rail should be faster than road and additional services should feed additional passengers/value to the network, but it seems that even this line will not be tolerated here. I'm not leaving boards as I have other interests but frankly CAT is such a bitchy circle jerk you are welcome to it.

that is exactly what I and others are asking for. A meaningful well-run railway. Lines in remote areas of Donegal et al would never ever justify themselves. You'd agree no doubt?

ANyway I'm sorry to see you and Wote go. I started off with the mindset that, yes, the WRC should be re-opened but having looked at others opinions and the facts, I changed my mind when it became obvious that it just didn't stack up. A line from Galway to Limerick (two Cities) has failed, what chance would a line from Sligo to Letterkenny/Derry stand?

Still, you are gone , they all do when they realise that such projects won't work. It's a pity because anyone with enough passion about Rail development would be an asset to this Forum and Rail in general.

end of the road

The Idyll Race wrote: »

I haven't a clue who end of the road is.

and frankly its irrelevant who i am, i will agree and disagree with and challenge the posts of who ever i see fit and if people can't deal with that i couldn't care a less. i'm not sure why dermo dragged me into his point anyway, considering i have agreed with him on some things over my time here so far, yes originally like some i agreed with the re-opening of the WRC, now with hindsight i agree that the ennis athenry section shouldn't have been, and that the rest should not be either, but whether i like it or not i realise the ennis athenry section has been re-opened, everything possible should be done to make it work, if passenger numbers don't go up after everything has been tried then services should be suspended. its unfortunate that a couple of posters have decided to leave, to be honest they should stick it out.

foggy_lad

end of the road wrote: »

and frankly its irrelevant who i am, i will agree and disagree with and challenge the posts of who ever i see fit and if people can't deal with that i couldn't care a less. i'm not sure why dermo dragged me into his point anyway, considering i have agreed with him on some things over my time here so far, yes originally like some i agreed with the re-opening of the WRC, now with hindsight i agree that the ennis athenry section shouldn't have been, and that the rest should not be either, but whether i like it or not i realise the ennis athenry section has been re-opened, everything possible should be done to make it work, if passenger numbers don't go up after everything has been tried then services should be suspended. its unfortunate that a couple of posters have decided to leave, to be honest they should stick it out.

When do you sit back and say Enough is enough shut it down? How much cash must be ploughed into something which has no future, had no past and is leeching huge amounts of cash at present?

What do you feel will "give this line a chance"? There has been sales where the tickets were practically given away yet people still took the bus, the times of the trains are not for changing because of other services into Limerick and Galway and it would require massive infrastructural spending so that is the end of that, Is there something else that can be tried to make a line with no passengers work considering only a small number of the locals could actually use it for work or anything else and for most the car or bus is faster and cheaper?

corktina

end of the road wrote: »

and frankly its irrelevant who i am, i will agree and disagree with and challenge the posts of who ever i see fit and if people can't deal with that i couldn't care a less. i'm not sure why dermo dragged me into his point anyway, considering i have agreed with him on some things over my time here so far, yes originally like some i agreed with the re-opening of the WRC, now with hindsight i agree that the ennis athenry section shouldn't have been, and that the rest should not be either, but whether i like it or not i realise the ennis athenry section has been re-opened, everything possible should be done to make it work, if passenger numbers don't go up after everything has been tried then services should be suspended. its unfortunate that a couple of posters have decided to leave, to be honest they should stick it out.

I agree. Having spent the money every effort should be made to make it pay.It seems to me that very little effort is being made in this direction and its a bit like rubbing salt into the wound to be having to subsidise its losses.

end of the road

foggy_lad wrote: »

When do you sit back and say Enough is enough shut it down? How much cash must be ploughed into something which has no future, had no past and is leeching huge amounts of cash at present?
well as i'm not the person who is in charge of where money goes in this country or what goes to the running of the WRC and as i don't know what the money that goes to it is being spent on or how it is being spent i can't answer the question.

foggy_lad wrote: »

There has been sales where the tickets were practically given away yet people still took the bus,

because the line was built to such a slow speed it would never be able to compete with the road. building it to proper speed compareable to the motor way is what should have been done but no of course it was built as a political tool and built to ultimately fail. it was never going to be compareable to dart or other high capacity routes in the country but with a speed faster then or compareable to the motor way with reasonable fairs it might have worked.

foggy_lad wrote: »

the times of the trains are not for changing because of other services into Limerick and Galway and it would require massive infrastructural spending so that is the end of that,

all could have been done during the construction of the line but as usual with any projects in this country their is something that needs to and should have been done that wasn't doneuntil later on at greater expense .

foggy_lad wrote: »

for most the car or bus is faster and cheaper?

and who's fault is that? IE for not building it to a decent speed and the government for not making sure it was built to such speed. it was also the governments fault it re-opened in the first place. in relation to the whole railway, its IE'S fault for wasting whatever they got (and probably what their getting now) and the government for not making sure it was and is being spent on what it needed and needs to be spent on.

bk

corktina wrote: »

I agree. Having spent the money every effort should be made to make it pay.It seems to me that very little effort is being made in this direction and its a bit like rubbing salt into the wound to be having to subsidise its losses.

Sure everything that doesn't cost more money should be done. However why throw more good money after bad when the demographics just aren't there to support it?

corktina

bk wrote: »

Sure everything that doesn't cost more money should be done. However why throw more good money after bad when the demographics just aren't there to support it?

I don't think promoting the line (and other services) would cost much. I don't think theres a lot can be done to improve the line physically (and opening more stations will dis-improve the service). IE hasn't even added it to their online booking facility as far as I know.

yer man!

corktina wrote: »

IE hasn't even added it to their online booking facility as far as I know.

Yup correct there, I needed to get from ennis to athenry a few weeks ago and I had to go through twitter to ask Irishrail directly to find out how much it would cost....

On a side note, Irishrail and the government were told by the consultant engineers that it wouldn't pay for itself without a diversion from Craughwell to Oranmore which was and still is a viable option, they chose to ignore them.

bk

corktina wrote: »

I don't think promoting the line (and other services) would cost much. I don't think theres a lot can be done to improve the line physically (and opening more stations will dis-improve the service). IE hasn't even added it to their online booking facility as far as I know.

I believe Irish Rail are working on a new, much more flexible, online booking system, I assume it will come then.

foggy_lad

end of the road wrote: »

foggy_lad wrote: »

When do you sit back and say Enough is enough shut it down? How much cash must be ploughed into something which has no future, had no past and is leeching huge amounts of cash at present?
well as i'm not the person who is in charge of where money goes in this country or what goes to the running of the WRC and as i don't know what the money that goes to it is being spent on or how it is being spent i can't answer the question.

foggy_lad wrote: »

There has been sales where the tickets were practically given away yet people still took the bus,

because the line was built to such a slow speed it would never be able to compete with the road. building it to proper speed compareable to the motor way is what should have been done but no of course it was built as a political tool and built to ultimately fail. it was never going to be compareable to dart or other high capacity routes in the country but with a speed faster then or compareable to the motor way with reasonable fairs it might have worked.

foggy_lad wrote: »

the times of the trains are not for changing because of other services into Limerick and Galway and it would require massive infrastructural spending so that is the end of that,

all could have been done during the construction of the line but as usual with any projects in this country their is something that needs to and should have been done that wasn't doneuntil later on at greater expense .

foggy_lad wrote: »

for most the car or bus is faster and cheaper?

and who's fault is that? IE for not building it to a decent speed and the government for not making sure it was built to such speed. it was also the governments fault it re-opened in the first place. in relation to the whole railway, its IE'S fault for wasting whatever they got (and probably what their getting now) and the government for not making sure it was and is being spent on what it needed and needs to be spent on.

Basically what you are saying is yes the line is doomed and should be closed asap to save the most from this "trainspotters wet dream".

Everything that could be done should have been done at the time the line was rebuilt but because it was botched there is really no way back that does not involve massive expenditure.

This line should never have been rebuilt and reopened as there wad never and never will be enough people willing to use so that it pays for itself!

The rural "ring-a-link" mini-bus around Carlow-wicklow carries more people ibid a week than this wade of tax money ever will! Such a mini-bus should have been provided for the tiny villages served by this old railway line

end of the road

foggy_lad wrote: »

Basically what you are saying is yes the line is doomed and should be closed asap to save the most from this "trainspotters wet dream".

i said it should have never been reopened or at least rebuilt properly, and only if everything possible has been tried to no effect then look at suspension of services, and the line be left in situ.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Everything that could be done should have been done at the time the line was rebuilt but because it was botched there is really no way back that does not involve massive expenditure.

yes i would agree with that.

foggy_lad wrote: »

This line should never have been rebuilt and reopened as there wad never and never will be enough people willing to use so that it pays for itself!

i agree. it shouldn't have been reopened but it has been reopened whether we like it or not. in fairness no line apart from dart and commuter pay for themselves so that excuse is pointless realy.