Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

purplepanda

The 5/6 trains running up & down this line each day would be better used as part of direct integrated longer distance services, perhaps a Cork Galway direct service & / or other destinations, instead of all these changes needed to make that journey & other cross country trips at present.

If the new smaller rural stations can't attract enough customers then just provide very basic services.

Get rid of all this changing trains & waiting about at Limerick & Limerick Junction & the trains going back at forth between these two points.

Ennis - Limerick Junction, why does every service each day need to change at Colbert? Why not one train making the complete journey?

So 4-6 hours Galway to Cork, Killarney, Waterford, plenty of potential journeys but not integrated services, just changing trains & waiting around.

IE need to join up the dots!!!!! Simples!!

corktina

im not sure what demand there would be for a Cork to Galway journey, and I don't think we can affored more services from Lim Junc to Cork as we already have one per hour. Would it be possible to provide Junc to Galway journeys and still provide the same level of service? I'm not sure.

dowlingm

yer man! wrote: »

Yup correct there, I needed to get from ennis to athenry a few weeks ago and I had to go through twitter to ask Irishrail directly to find out how much it would cost....

On a side note, Irishrail and the government were told by the consultant engineers that it wouldn't pay for itself without a diversion from Craughwell to Oranmore which was and still is a viable option, they chose to ignore them.

You mean the politicians and bureaucrats who bowed to the will of the WIRC ignored them. IE had little say - they were simply handed 106m and told get on with it.

Victor

dermo88 wrote: »

Seeing as you are a new poster, I've tried to be reasonably polite.

You need to be polite at all times.

Moderator

bk

purplepanda wrote: »

So 4-6 hours Galway to Cork, Killarney, Waterford, plenty of potential journeys but not integrated services, just changing trains & waiting around.

Problem is Galway to Cork takes less then 3 hours (2:50) by CityLink coach and is cheaper.

foggy_lad

end of the road wrote: »

i said it should have never been reopened or at least rebuilt properly, and only if everything possible has been tried to no effect then look at suspension of services, and the line be left in situ.

Everything that can be done has been done,

i agree. it shouldn't have been reopened but it has been reopened whether we like it or not. in fairness no line apart from dart and commuter pay for themselves so that excuse is pointless realy.

So is it a case of it's opened now so we must throw massive amounts of cash at it for donkeys years(like the Waterford-Rosslare line) before some beancounter in Irish Rail/CIE decides it must be closed?

Markcheese

So should there be some sort of investigation into how to get out of it as cheaply as possible...
I presume maintenance costs on a new line are minimal... Rolling stock wouldn't make anymore income on any other line.. Most of the staff probably can't be let go.... So apart from diesel savings... Reducing or scrapping services may not save much...
Could it be leased out ... Rented out to anyone...,? Made into some kind of tourist ( see one of Ireland's not so rare White elephants ) put some converted mark 4s on the line as a low speed mobile b+b... Anything to get economic benefit out of it ....

foggy_lad

Markcheese wrote: »

So should there be some sort of investigation into how to get out of it as cheaply as possible...
I presume maintenance costs on a new line are minimal... Rolling stock wouldn't make anymore income on any other line.. Most of the staff probably can't be let go.... So apart from diesel savings... Reducing or scrapping services may not save much...
Could it be leased out ... Rented out to anyone...,? Made into some kind of tourist ( see one of Ireland's not so rare White elephants ) put some converted mark 4s on the line as a low speed mobile b+b... Anything to get economic benefit out of it ....

Just stop using it! Dont maintain it shut it down! it will never see train services carrying any numbers that will ever make it worthwhile!

Why should taxpayers pay for maintaining a line that should not be there? protect the allignment, yeah right! for what exactly?? is there suddenly going to be a city built just outside the metropolis of Crusheen?

Third world countries the world over have these railways and roads that are built for no reason at all (many lie empty, many dont even go anywhere) except to satisfy some dictators massively inflated ego!

end of the road

foggy_lad wrote: »

the Waterford-Rosslare line

well for a start its actually the rosslare limerick line and should have been ran as such instead of to separate services.
running 1 train a day up and down to waterford was never going to work, the fact that it got apparently 25 users (could have been more who knows where IE are concerned) with no promotion isn't bad compared to the amounts of passengers on each train on the WRC, the WRC it seems has more trains then rosslare dublin. i wouldn't just take IE'S word about passenger numbers, remember were dealing with a company who has no interest in any part of the rail network and who would shut and lift the lot if they could. i believe the rosslare waterford section may have been open if the WRC wasn't built, the whole excuse from IE about beat is bull because if they were telling the truth they probably would have closed the line once the last beat train ran. but well done bringing up the line every so often, you won't convince me the closure was a good thing, it didn't save money, nor will it, nor will any closure, IE will find some new toys to waste it on.

foggy_lad

end of the road wrote: »

well for a start its actually the rosslare limerick line and should have been ran as such instead of to separate services.
running 1 train a day up and down to waterford was never going to work, the fact that it got apparently 25 users (could have been more who knows where IE are concerned) with no promotion isn't bad compared to the amounts of passengers on each train on the WRC, the WRC it seems has more trains then rosslare dublin. i wouldn't just take IE'S word about passenger numbers, remember were dealing with a company who has no interest in any part of the rail network and who would shut and lift the lot if they could. i believe the rosslare waterford section may have been open if the WRC wasn't built, the whole excuse from IE about beat is bull because if they were telling the truth they probably would have closed the line once the last beat train ran. but well done bringing up the line every so often, you won't convince me the closure was a good thing, it didn't save money, nor will it, nor will any closure, IE will find some new toys to waste it on.

How many of those users were paying a fare? I was on that train several times and there was never more than 10 and most of them got off at Campile.

It doesn't matter how many times a day it was run or at what times because over the years it was ooperated at different times and the loadings never improved! people should stop moaning about what could have or should have been done and look to the future and what can be done to make sure Irish Rail survives! that will involve lesser used lines being closed and pointless maintenance being stopped for lines that have no future!

Stop wasting our money!

end of the road

foggy_lad wrote: »

How many of those users were paying a fare? I was on that train several times and there was never more than 10 and most of them got off at Campile.

when you were on. you didn't see what went on the times you weren't on. how many fare paying passengers use any of the railways, or the busses you so champion.

foggy_lad wrote: »

It doesn't matter how many times a day it was run or at what times because over the years it was ooperated at different times and the loadings never improved!

because of a lack of interest by IE in a deliberate attempt to run it into the ground, so how it was operated very much matters as this will probably be how the rest is operated in a few years when IE begins to get realy board of running railways.

foggy_lad wrote: »

people should stop moaning about what could have or should have been done and look to the future

i actually disagree, i think we should always remind people of irish rails failings and remind irish rail of those failings where possible as their are very many of them.

foggy_lad wrote: »

what can be done to make sure Irish Rail survives!

nothing, they will run the whole lot into the ground, the management only care about their pensions not the staff or the customers.

foggy_lad wrote: »

that will involve lesser used lines being closed

i would say the whole lot will be shut, they will probably make sure lines that they don't want to operate but have good loadings see their loadings drop so they can shut them and do whatever it takes to make sure it happens.

foggy_lad wrote: »

pointless maintenance being stopped for lines that have no future!

well for a start we don't know whether a line has a future or not for a long long time, all of what had no future was closed in the 60s and 70s, everything else survived for a reason. its their job to keep lines in working condition unless a greenway is put on the line to protect the alignement. so such maintenence isn't pointless at all.

Our man in Havana

The Ennis-Athenry line should have been kept for freight only.

purplepanda

corktina wrote: »

im not sure what demand there would be for a Cork to Galway journey, and I don't think we can affored more services from Lim Junc to Cork as we already have one per hour. Would it be possible to provide Junc to Galway journeys and still provide the same level of service? I'm not sure.

bk wrote: »

Problem is Galway to Cork takes less then 3 hours (2:50) by CityLink coach and is cheaper.

So even with more direct services / cutting waiting times for connections for cross country services the journeys would still usually slower than express bus?

Seems that line speed is the issue that needs to be urgently dealt with, is there any way that even modest speed increases can be achieved on GL- LK / LJ WD lines? Are they even bothering to try?

If IE can't make any increase in line speeds in the very near future they might as well close these lines or hand them over to anyone who want's to take on the challenge :rolleyes:

corktina

its because the line isnt very direct.It wasnt built to go to any of the places its being made ot serve, rather it is a mish-mash of lines cobbled together.Even if you put on a through Cork to Galway train, it would probably still be slower than the road as it would have to reverse twice en route and there are too many vilage stations enroute (and more planned!) IMHO the WRC should serve Limerick,Ennis and Athenry only (OK maybe Gort too as it has a loop)

Maybe funds should be found to instal a direct loop at Athenry to eliminate the reversal with a new station west of the current one. (This wont suit WoT AT ALL)

westtip

Our man in Havana wrote: »

The Ennis-Athenry line should have been kept for freight only.

What freight?

BTW I see Varadkar has finally listened to some of us Greenway lobbyists

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0914/1224324009474.html

Dublin to Galway cycle link proposal
MINISTER FOR Transport Leo Varadkar has instructed the National Roads Authority to examine possible routes for a cross-country cycle path from Dublin to Galway, similar to the award-winning Great Western Greenway in Co Mayo.

Mr Varadkar, who is also responsible for tourism and sport, said he wanted to secure funding for the project he predicted had the potential to bring in at least €15 million per annum. While a proposed route remained to be decided, the Royal Canal was an “obvious candidate” for the stretch outside Dublin from Mullingar to Maynooth, he said.

The National Transport Authority is already funding detailed design work for sections along the Royal Canal in Dublin, while funding of €600,000 has been allocated to develop the Royal Canal path from Blanchardstown to Ashtown. The NTA and local authorities are considering how to extend this to Maynooth.

Mr Varadkar said funding from his department had already extended the Grand Canal cycle scheme through the south docklands to Sheriff Street.

“A national off-road cycle trail would be a first for Ireland and would be a great tourism asset. I have instructed the National Roads Authority and the National Transport Authority to start planning for the project,” he said.

“Cycling holidays are already hugely popular in Europe. If we can secure necessary levels of funding, I would love to see this project being completed within the next few years.

“It has the potential to bring in at least €15 million per annum, much of that going straight into local businesses along the route.”

Mr Varadkar said the proposed Galway-Dublin facility should be open to walkers as well as cyclists, like the Great Western Greenway. The Co Mayo route runs along the line of the disused Westport to Achill railway track, which closed in 1937. At 42km (26 miles) it is the longest such facility in the country.

Mr Varadkar cycled the route when he was in Westport for the Fine Gael “think-in” recently, while colleagues climbed Croagh Patrick.

Only a matter of time before he says do the same to the WRC north of Athenry.

yer man!

What ye think of the Oranmore station then?

dowlingm

let's hope they own the land for the road into it this time, unlike Hansfield :rolleyes:

foggy_lad

yer man! wrote: »

What ye think of the Oranmore station then?

I'd say far too many parking spaces by about 150, there's not that many living in the area!

CrowdedHouse

yer man! wrote: »

What ye think of the Oranmore station then?

Pity it's not in Oranmore though

If you drive out that far you might as well stay going

corktina

i'm not sure the idea is to serve Oranmore as such, and maybe it should have been called "Parkway" or somesuch. Isn't the idea for it to be a Park and Ride location?

CrowdedHouse

Maybe but I can't help feeling it's just another waste

corktina

Craughwell is a waste (sooo close to Athenry) Crusheen WILL be a waste, no new passengers and a slower service...) but Oranmore should have been there from the start.

yer man!

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

Pity it's not in Oranmore though

If you drive out that far you might as well stay going

True however I'm considering using it, it takes me an hour to drive from Oranmore to westside everyday a journey which takes 16 mins without traffic. I'd use the bus but you can't park it anywhere near the bus stop in oranmore and if you do park it near the shuttle bus then it'll take 30mins on the bus as it goes out to Galway clinic now which is completely pointless and adds at least 10 to 15mins to the journey. Best option would be to cycle really but Galway isn't the nicest city to cycle in as it's so narrow.

Sponge Bob

Automatic Seat Reservation is coming wahhhay. Funny how the WRC will get this before Heuston Station all the same.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/27824-iarnrod-eireann-defends-lack-online-facility-galway-limerick-route

Iarnród Éireann has dismissed suggestions that it's witholding online ticket services on the Galway to Limerick train line. [b[Barry Kenny is spokeperson for the group and says the reason for the lack of online facility is because the train fleet on the route does not support the automated online reservation system at this time.[/b]

Thanks for sorting that out for us Baz.



[/QUOTE]

westtip

MEP Higgins, who is Ireland's member on the European Parliament's Transport Committee says the software is already in operation elsewhere and failing to extend it on the Western Rail Corridor will ultimately have an impact on passenger numbers

this is from the same article in the Galway news

It seems to me that the failure of the WRC to perform is being blamed entirely on the operator and things like the lack of on line ticketing. We saw the ludicrous passenger forecast numbers that justified the re-opening of this route, is someone out there seriously suggesting that because tickets could not be purchased on line this has affected passenger numbers in anyway. Tell me has anyone ever decided not to make a rail journey because they had not bought tickets on line, what % of tickets for rail journies are actually purchased on line; it seems to me that all of this is more flannel and smokescreen to deny the fundamental failings of this route. The sob story is being written now - it didn't work because: Irish rail didn't provide on line ticketing, Irish rail didn't provide enough trians (FFS 6 up and 6 down for this route is overkill), there were no express trains (try to go fast on this line with dirver changeover at Athenry), it was too expensive (each passenger is being subvented how much €80 per journey, they have to charge something), It took too long compared with the bus (Irish rail are stuck with the infrastructure that was campaigned for - a rail line along an old alignment that swung into Athenry for a driver changeover), the bus is much cheaper and faster (buses run by private companies), Its just not fair and the wesht as usual is suffering worse than it did in the famine.

At some point a politician with responsibility like Jim Higgins might just say - do you know what Irish rail have tried really hard with this route - but at the end of the day you just have to accept - this one was a mistake. does anyone think this will every happen??

black47

westtip wrote: »

this is from the same article in the Galway news

It seems to me that the failure of the WRC to perform is being blamed entirely on the operator and things like the lack of on line ticketing. We saw the ludicrous passenger forecast numbers that justified the re-opening of this route, is someone out there seriously suggesting that because tickets could not be purchased on line this has affected passenger numbers in anyway. Tell me has anyone ever decided not to make a rail journey because they had not bought tickets on line, what % of tickets for rail journies are actually purchased on line; it seems to me that all of this is more flannel and smokescreen to deny the fundamental failings of this route. The sob story is being written now - it didn't work because: Irish rail didn't provide on line ticketing, Irish rail didn't provide enough trians (FFS 6 up and 6 down for this route is overkill), there were no express trains (try to go fast on this line with dirver changeover at Athenry), it was too expensive (each passenger is being subvented how much €80 per journey, they have to charge something), It took too long compared with the bus (Irish rail are stuck with the infrastructure that was campaigned for - a rail line along an old alignment that swung into Athenry for a driver changeover), the bus is much cheaper and faster (buses run by private companies), Its just not fair and the wesht as usual is suffering worse than it did in the famine.

At some point a politician with responsibility like Jim Higgins might just say - do you know what Irish rail have tried really hard with this route - but at the end of the day you just have to accept - this one was a mistake. does anyone think this will every happen??

Not while the country and western brigade of Enda & Michael Ring are in power. Longford bypass done. Ballaghadreen commencing in October. Gort/Tuam on the way in 2013. Galway City outer bypass will proceed if it gets through european court. Transport investment is continuing in the west.
IMO this line will be extended at least as far as Tuam and possibly onto Claremorris without ever being officially backed by the mayo boys in power.

westtip

black47 wrote: »

Not while the country and western brigade of Enda & Michael Ring are in power. Longford bypass done. Ballaghadreen commencing in October. Gort/Tuam on the way in 2013. Galway City outer bypass will proceed if it gets through european court. Transport investment is continuing in the west.
IMO this line will be extended at least as far as Tuam and possibly onto Claremorris without ever being officially backed by the mayo boys in power.

Longford bypass was started before these boyos got into power. Gort/tuam though surely will be the killer of the WRC extension. Is the M11 extension bypassing enniscorthy part of the western mafia as well? The three projects you mentioned are the remnants of the national road building programme that needs completing; As long as Varadkar is MOT, I cannot see extension to Tuam and Claremorris happening, it will do nothing to win votes in the West - the extension of the M17 however will.

corktina

at some stage the extending of the WRC further (and the money it would waste) will become politically damaging. I think it may already have reached the stage where noone will dare waste more money on it.

westtip

spotted this one in the Irish Times today - interesting debate going on in their letters pages about cycling tourism and the whole issue of using redundant rail lines as greenway has raised its head a few times, this letter published today makes direct reference to what could be done to the WRC for good public benefit.

Sir, – Leo Varadkar (Home News September 14th and Letters September 18th) wants a feasibility study done on a potential route for a greenway from Dublin to Galway. He will be aware of a full report on the potential of a National Cycle Network of “greenways” published by the NRA in August 2010. Page 15 said, “The next step could be to select a major route corridor (eg Dublin-Galway corridor) or a segment of the route corridor to carry out a feasibility study and route selection report.”

Two years after this report was produced by the NRA, we are going to get another report with pretty lines on maps, but no real progress on what is needed – a national cycle network being built.

John Mulligan (September 15th) and other letter writers have suggested that the canal banks and disused rail lines – already in public ownership – would give us a head start in creating a national cycle network almost immediately.

In the west, a dose of realism about the future of the Western Rail Corridor on the section north of Athenry to Collooney is needed; the failure of the new rail line from Ennis to Athenry has all but killed off any talk of further extensions north from Athenry of the Western Rail Corridor. Convert this redundant rail line to a greenway now and see the immediate impact on cycling tourism in the west; and while doing the work why not put in a fibre-optic cable network along the greenway routes?

Mr Varadkar knows the potential of this route as a greenway; but won’t give it his public support for fear of upsetting the West on Track campaign. Convert this line to Greenway and watch the tourist money roll in.

We don’t need a feasibility study to take this action now; we have the canal banks, we have the old railways in public ownership. We just need someone with strength in government to say let’s just do it. – Yours, etc,

BRENDAN QUINN,

Enniscrone,

Co Sligo.

http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/index.html#1224324199116

what_traffic

westtip wrote: »

spotted this one in the Irish Times today - interesting debate going on in their letters pages about cycling tourism and the whole issue of using redundant rail lines as greenway has raised its head a few times, this letter published today makes direct reference to what could be done to the WRC for good public benefit.




http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/index.html#1224324199116

Trouble is that its the NRA tasked with this job - just watch what they will do with the Dublin -> Galway route. Guarantee that they will put significant sections of it on the old N6 i.e converting the hard shoulders as they already have "responsibility" for this road. They have no interest in Greenways IMHO; they just want to protect their jobs; they will always take the easiest option.