Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

sligotrain

westtip wrote: »

It wasn't a crystal ball it was just common sense reasoning, derek is missed from these boards and this thread. We all know the WRC southern branch line has been an abject failure and so many of us predicted it and agreed with Derek. The northern branch line will become a greenway with an information superhighway laid along its length. It will be a huge economic success, will transform internet connectivity along its route and contribute to growth in west of ireland tourism - all this i can assure you will happen.

Do you know what? You're great entertainment value.:pac:

But seriously, what do you mean by an Information Superhighway? Will it be a cable, laid by bicycles pulling the cable drums?

westtip

sligotrain wrote: »

Do you know what? You're great entertainment value.:pac:

But seriously, what do you mean by an Information Superhighway? Will it be a cable, laid by bicycles pulling the cable drums?

YOu really don't gettit do you. This linear route is owned by the public, it is a piece of public infrastructure, high quality fibre optic cabling along this route with a greenway placed on the route will actually create jobs, not rosters for the sons of sons of sons of train drivers driving trains as a family right along a line no one will use; that prospect I do not find entertaining - the prospect of cabling along this route that will allow data storage houses to be able to send millions of tetrabytes of information from Kiltimagh to the rest of the globe in nanoseconds actually does appeal to me. the idea of using this route for such a sensible economic benefit to the west in this new age we live in - does. Take the pi** if you want - but could you tell me how a railway no one will use could benefit the west of ireland.

OurLadyofKnock

Interestingly enough, as data is now a kind of freight, a high speed data cable along the route would make it a state of the art transport network delivering millions of euros of commerce into and out of the Northwest.

dowlingm

There might be a data cable already running along it from the old Esat contract where they built out their network along IE rights of way.

LivelineDipso

dowlingm wrote: »

There might be a data cable already running along it from the old Esat contract where they built out their network along IE rights of way.

There is in the Burma Road - not sure if it is up to date - went in about decade ago.

westtip

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

Interestingly enough, as data is now a kind of freight, a high speed data cable along the route would make it a state of the art transport network delivering millions of euros of commerce into and out of the Northwest.

OLK exactly and lots of tired hungry tourists on the greenway, also think of the linear route as a potential route for a natural gas pipeline bringing corrib gas to all towns along the route. Natural gas could have a transforming effect on the food processing industry a good supply of natural gas in the UK made a huge difference to the food processing industry; we really have to change our thinking from Western Rail Corridor to Western Economic Corridor - used for power supply(gas), data freight and tourism - not four trains a day with one man and his dog on going from Charlestown to Kiltimagh. This is why I have gone on and on about this subject over the years, WOT just don't grab the nettle of why the route needs to be looked at as a potential goldmine for the west not restoring a railway that simply is not needed, but reinventing the route for relevance today.

sligotrain

westtip wrote: »

OLK exactly and lots of tired hungry tourists on the greenway, also think of the linear route as a potential route for a natural gas pipeline bringing corrib gas to all towns along the route. Natural gas could have a transforming effect on the food processing industry a good supply of natural gas in the UK made a huge difference to the food processing industry; we really have to change our thinking from Western Rail Corridor to Western Economic Corridor - used for power supply(gas), data freight and tourism - not four trains a day with one man and his dog on going from Charlestown to Kiltimagh. This is why I have gone on and on about this subject over the years, WOT just don't grab the nettle of why the route needs to be looked at as a potential goldmine for the west not restoring a railway that simply is not needed, but reinventing the route for relevance today.

So it will be a "gold mine" with "lots of hungry tourists"? Have you done proper market research?

And why do we have to wait until it becomes a cycle path before fibre optic cable can be laid?

This isn't a serious proposal, it's just the pipe dream of one person sadly egged on by an anti rail faction on a bulletin board. How many TDs and Councillors back this proposal? How many tourists want to cycle through the Burma Road line? Not many I suspect.

The Burma Road would be better off as part of a rejuvenated Derry--Donegal-Sligo-Limerick line. Oops I've just committed the C&T mortal sin by backing railways!

Grandeeod

sligotrain wrote: »

So it will be a "gold mine" with "lots of hungry tourists"? Have you done proper market research?

And why do we have to wait until it becomes a cycle path before fibre optic cable can be laid?

This isn't a serious proposal, it's just the pipe dream of one person sadly egged on by an anti rail faction on a bulletin board. How many TDs and Councillors back this proposal? How many tourists want to cycle through the Burma Road line? Not many I suspect.

The Burma Road would be better off as part of a rejuvenated Derry--Donegal-Sligo-Limerick line. Oops I've just committed the C&T mortal sin by backing railways!

How many passengers want to use a railway from Derry to Limerick?

In your heart of hearts you must know that what you are proposing is an expensive and unnecessary failure. I'm pro-rail, but this has been hammered out so many times before. The existing Athenry-Ennis line didn't even have a decent business case. We can't build railways for the sake of it. I sense you know that.

As far as I know the Greenway idea has a lot of support. I'm sure Westtip will enlighten you.

corktina

there already is a Limerick to Derry line. Almost noone makes that journey now and parts of it are likely to close soon.It's probably a lot quicker than the Burma Rd could ever be too!

Grandeeod on his 22nd post put it very well!

westtip

Grandeeod wrote: »

How many passengers want to use a railway from Derry to Limerick?


As far as I know the Greenway idea has a lot of support. I'm sure Westtip will enlighten you.

Indeed I will in a recent survey in one town on the route in Mayo a vision for the future has been published - the people of the town that will remain nameless for now have been consulted about what they want to see done in the town - there has been resounding support for a greenway on the old railway similar to that in Newport. People are beginning to stand up and there are now plenty of councillors, TDs and MEPs behind this idea. So SLIGOTRAIN wake up and smell the roses and stop dreaming about the smell of soot and sound of steam. The Western Rail Corridor is history, history my friend history. Get the octogenerian priest to have a requiem his dream is over.

In fact the use of the term western rail corridor is history - we should start using a new phrase the western economic corridor.

The Idyl Race

corktina wrote: »

there already is a Limerick to Derry line. Almost noone makes that journey now and parts of it are likely to close soon.It's probably a lot quicker than the Burma Rd could ever be too!

Grandeeod on his 22nd post put it very well!

Derry to Limerick sections closing? Unless you are talking about the secondary line from Ballybrophy and not the mains you are talking through your hole. NIR are rebuilding and upgrading the line from Derry to Coleraine, putting a three and a half hour journey from Dublin to Derry within reach.

The Idyl Race

sligotrain wrote: »

So it will be a "gold mine" with "lots of hungry tourists"? Have you done proper market research?

And why do we have to wait until it becomes a cycle path before fibre optic cable can be laid?

This isn't a serious proposal, it's just the pipe dream of one person sadly egged on by an anti rail faction on a bulletin board. How many TDs and Councillors back this proposal? How many tourists want to cycle through the Burma Road line? Not many I suspect.

The Burma Road would be better off as part of a rejuvenated Derry--Donegal-Sligo-Limerick line. Oops I've just committed the C&T mortal sin by backing railways!

Get BK's Delicious Toasted Rolls for them and they'll be laughing

Hotblack Desiato

The Idyl Race wrote: »

NIR are rebuilding and upgrading the line from Derry to Coleraine, putting a three and a half hour journey from Dublin to Derry within reach.

Who in their right mind is going to pay probably twice the coach fare to go at an average speed of 40-ish mph. This is not the 19th century.

sligotrain

ninja900 wrote: »

Who in their right mind is going to pay probably twice the coach fare to go at an average speed of 40-ish mph. This is not the 19th century.

The bus is timetabled at 3 hours 40 minutes (in my experience it usually takes 4 hours plus), it's cheaper but the train is going to be faster. We don't know what the fare structure will be but if Translink have their heads screwed on then there should be good promotional fares.

Also the run from Coleraine to Derry is one of the most spectacularly beautiful train journeys in Ireland. Much better than staring at all those dreary Monaghan Drumlins.

And your assertion that the train will average 40mph is fundamentally wrong. The distance by rail is significantly longer than by road, yet the train will still beat the bus and you can get up and walk about in comfort.

Hotblack Desiato

sligotrain wrote: »

And your assertion that the train will average 40mph is fundamentally wrong. The distance by rail is significantly longer than by road

Let's achieve transport efficiency in the 21st century by sending people out of their way on 19th century alignments that save them at best a whole ten minutes over a coach which is far cheaper. Yeah, that makes good business sense.
I'm amazed the Derry line wasn't ripped up years ago. From Belfast it's bad enough but you'd need to have your head examined to take it from Dublin.

Hotblack Desiato

sligotrain wrote: »

Also the run from Coleraine to Derry is one of the most spectacularly beautiful train journeys in Ireland. Much better than staring at all those dreary Monaghan Drumlins.

Yes, we should add a 'looking at beauty' tariff to the fares. Perhaps demand 10 euro to open the window blind?

And your assertion that the train will average 40mph is fundamentally wrong.

It may well be. I'm far from convinced that the train will average 40mph in service!

sligotrain

ninja900 wrote: »

Let's achieve transport efficiency in the 21st century by sending people out of their way on 19th century alignments that save them at best a whole ten minutes over a coach which is far cheaper. Yeah, that makes good business sense.
I'm amazed the Derry line wasn't ripped up years ago. From Belfast it's bad enough but you'd need to have your head examined to take it from Dublin.

No you happen to have a set way of doing things which may suit you but that doesnt give you the absolute right to shove your opinions down other people's throats which is what you're doing here.

You make several statements that are purely based on your opinions rather than facts.

We don't know how much the fares are going to be and we have told you the train will be faster but you won't listen to that either.

Sure the lines follow Victorian alignments but what does that matter? New straighter alignments *could* be used but to build a new direct Dublin Derry line would be of an astronomical cost and one that neither the Northern or Southern governments could or should afford.

So to be pragmatic, Translink make the best of the existing alignments and build continously welded track on new, tamped ballast. Speeds are improved and everyone who takes the train benefits.

Is the route that Translink use the *best* route? No, in my opinion the Northern Government should never have closed the GNR Belfast Derry route which was shorter. But we are where we are.

sligotrain

ninja900 wrote: »

Yes, we should add a 'looking at beauty' tariff to the fares. Perhaps demand 10 euro to open the window blind?

Codswallop.

Hotblack Desiato

sligotrain wrote: »

No you happen to have a set way of doing things which may suit you but that doesnt give you the absolute right to shove your opinions down other people's throats which is what you're doing here.

My opinion is presented on the same basis as yours. You (or others reading) may choose to reject it as I (or others reading) may choose to reject yours. Nothing is being shoved down anyone's throat, I think you'll find. I won't hold my breath for the apology.

You make several statements that are purely based on your opinions rather than facts.

:pac:

We don't know how much the fares are going to be and we have told you the train will be faster but you won't listen to that either.

Ten minutes faster. Woo.
Look at coach fares in ROI versus train fares. The usual ratio is half. The coaches are making money. The trains are losing money (so the fares need to be even higher.)

Sure the lines follow Victorian alignments but what does that matter? New straighter alignments *could* be used but to build a new direct Dublin Derry line would be of an astronomical cost and one that neither the Northern or Southern governments could or should afford.

When they were built they were competing with horse and cart, now the alignment is competing with modern roads (even though we haven't fully upgraded the N2 - if we had, forget it.)

So to be pragmatic, Translink make the best of the existing alignments and build continously welded track on new, tamped ballast. Speeds are improved and everyone who takes the train benefits.

I'm all for pragmatic, I suspect you are using 'pragmatic' as code for 'massive rail subsidies at all costs' which is not remotely realistic. Pragmatic means investing taxpayers' money where it will produce the greatest benefit.

Is the route that Translink use the *best* route? No, in my opinion the Northern Government should never have closed the GNR Belfast Derry route which was shorter. But we are where we are.

Indeed, but could that route be competitive with today's road transport, without major re-engineering? Given the low standard of most rail built in this country in the 19th century, I'd say unlikely.

Hotblack Desiato

sligotrain wrote: »

Codswallop.

Well if as you maintain, the scenery is an attraction, why not monetise it?

I think you'll find though that most passengers on a transport system are interested in the transport rather than the system. Train users rather than train fans.

dermo88

sligotrain

Is the route that Translink use the *best* route? No, in my opinion the Northern Government should never have closed the GNR Belfast Derry route which was shorter. But we are where we are.

I agree on this, but it was also because the ex GNR line connected towns which are quite large, such as Omagh (15,000 people in 1965 at the time of closure, now 22,000 odd), Strabane (10,500), and Dungannon (10,000).

However, it was a full 20 minutes slower than the line via Coleraine because of terrain. Out of Dungannon, there was a series of severe 1.3% grades for successive miles. It was also from what I am told by people who were alive then, rather run down, because the track was not renewed. I am told the axleload tolerance was less than 17 tonnes, which would even prevent the use of an 071 class locomotive, although 141's were in regular use on Pilgrimage trains to Omagh for Lough Derg and the likes.

ninja900

Well if as you maintain, the scenery is an attraction, why not monetise it?

I think you'll find though that most passengers on a transport system are interested in the transport rather than the system. Train users rather than train fans.

At last, someone who speaks the language of business. Monetise it. Wonderful phrase.

Now, most know I have what you could term a pragmatic pro rail stance. As such, Ireland has tried reviving regional routes, and sadly it has not worked. Therefore, the growth has to be in getting faster times, better fares, revenue yield management systems. All these are being done, but in a recession, its a hell of a lot harder. History is repeating itself, with mass unemployment and emigration. It reminds me of the story of CIE in the 1950's prior to the Beddy Report:

"The role of the railway was bringing emigrants to the ports, and internal traffic was in terminal decline"

corktina

The Idyl Race wrote: »

Derry to Limerick sections closing? Unless you are talking about the secondary line from Ballybrophy and not the mains you are talking through your hole. NIR are rebuilding and upgrading the line from Derry to Coleraine, putting a three and a half hour journey from Dublin to Derry within reach.

indeed that is one section likely to close and perhaps I should have said "section" . However you can usually tell when you are winning an argument when one point is picked on to hurl insults and the rest ignored!

However the investment being made by NIR emphasises my point. Derry has the Train, indeed so does Sligo.

westtip

sligotrain wrote: »

So it will be a "gold mine" with "lots of hungry tourists"? Have you done proper market research?

I haven't done the market research but Failte Ireland have. In 2006 they issued a report that showed we were losing cycling tourists; one of the main criticisms of tourists who tried to have a touring holiday in Ireland was the lack of safe cycling routes. Failte Ireland have also issued figures on the outstanding success of the Great Western Greenway - all this stuff has been posted up earlier - what was it 7 million into the local economies along the GWG in the first year of operation. That's not market research its fact. As is the fact that its costing IR circa 3 million a year to subvent the southern branch line of the WRC from Athenry to Ennis, not to mention the cost of furnishing the debt on capital cost of 106 million, shall we say about another 4 million a year in interest alone. "gold mine" with "lots of hungry tourists"? - try and book a room at the Mulranny park hotel - most weekends its now full of tired hungry tourists.

If you want research type in the "economic benefits of greenways" into google I will tell you what look at this link http://www.americantrails.org/resources/economics/index.html

Also try sustrans

http://www.sustrans.org.uk/search-results search=economic+benefits+of+greenways

Research!!!! Facts!!! What evidence do you want.

I will tell you what go and talk to Don Dirrane - he is the owner of the yeats county inn on the N17 just north of Charlestown - he is begging for the greenway to happen - it will run through his hotel grounds. Oh and by the way I have done some research in this sector - and have got the support of many of the key hotels along the route who want to see it happen, I interviewed many of them 2 years ago and submitted my evidence to the politicians you say don't support this campaign oh by the way - check the friends of the campaign on facebook. see the number of local people, businesses, organisations and politicians support this idea.,Try and look at the quotes from politicians on the sligomayogreenway website: I tell you what have a read of these:

Enda Kenny Leader of Fine Gael, and at the time Leader of the opposition and now Taoiseach stated in an email to Sligo Mayo Greenway Campaign on 6th December 2010:

Re the “Greenway along the section of the Claremorris/Collooney Western rail line. I favour this kind of development…… for relatively small money….. which will have a considerable impact in respect of tourism”

Enda Kenny in an email to Sligo Mayo Greenway Campaign in January 2011-06-07

“May I also congratulate you on your efforts to date in progressing the Mayo-Sligo Greenway”

Eamon O’Cuiv: In a speech at a conference about the Western Rail Corridor in May 2009. Mr O’Cuiv when Minister for Community and Gaeltacht affairs said:

“should we use the section of the railway line north of Claremorris as a walkway and cycleway while it is not open as railway?” - A Good question Mr O’Cuiv and why not?

Michael Ring TD and Minister of State for Tourism and Transport commenting about the impact The Great Western greenway was having on Mayo Tourism, in the Mayo News 4th May 2011

“The Great Western Greenway is a perfect example of the type of innovative project which this country needs for a sustained economic recovery. This project, which has crucially involved the local community in its development, is now generating extra visitors, revenues and jobs for Mayo.”

So tell me what research have you got SLIGOTRAIN or indeed concrete evidence that the northern branch line will do anything for the west. Here are the facts for you: southern branch line: FAILURE Great West Greenway: SUCCESS

Do you want to know anything else SLIGOTRAIN or is your head still buried in the sand, tell me do you find all this research and evidence entertaining - what I find is that it sad our politicians don't have the gumption to get on with it and make it happen - but that will change of that I am confident.

Sponge Bob

Ya cant be banging facts at poor sligotrain like that westtip. Not fair on the poor lad.

Grandeeod

And here's another fact. The Athenry - Ennis section of the WRC has failed.

sligotrain

corktina wrote: »

indeed that is one section likely to close and perhaps I should have said "section" . However you can usually tell when you are winning an argument when one point is picked on to hurl insults and the rest ignored!

However the investment being made by NIR emphasises my point. Derry has the Train, indeed so does Sligo.

And Donegal doesn't. Nor does Fermanagh, Cavan, Monagan etc. So you are also distorting the argument to suit your own case.

I like the way you wade in to defend ninja when he/she was the first one to hurl the insults. I guess that's because ninja says what you agree with isn't it?

:pac:

The Idyl Race

corktina wrote: »

indeed that is one section likely to close and perhaps I should have said "section" . However you can usually tell when you are winning an argument when one point is picked on to hurl insults and the rest ignored!

However the investment being made by NIR emphasises my point. Derry has the Train, indeed so does Sligo.

Bloody hell Corktina, this is the internet! Winning arguments on the the internet is as useful as a chocolate saucepan but not as delicious.

The Idyl Race

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Ya cant be banging facts at poor sligotrain like that westtip. Not fair on the poor lad.

Did you play that game in school as well Sponge Bob?

sligotrain

The Idyl Race wrote: »

Bloody hell Corktina, this is the internet! Winning arguments on the the internet is as useful as a chocolate saucepan but not as delicious.

Are you implying Corktina has ever won an argument?

As far as I can see Corktina would reduce the entire railway network to a circular track with plenty of car parking outside Mallow where an 071 could roar round and round all day to his hearts content...:pac:

The Idyl Race

ninja900 wrote: »

Who in their right mind is going to pay probably twice the coach fare to go at an average speed of 40-ish mph. This is not the 19th century.

The clue is in the word "upgrade".

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/upgrade_1?q=upgrade