Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

yer man!

pigtown wrote: »

Why Galway commuter rail and not Limerick?

When it takes 55 minutes to go 6 km at 8:30 in the morning, it's easy to understand how galway commuter rail might work.....

pigtown

yer man! wrote: »

When it takes 55 minutes to go 6 km at 8:30 in the morning, it's easy to understand how galway commuter rail might work.....

Ah. We are pretty lucky with our roads around here alright. If they could just get the northern distributor road up and running then the city would be pretty much sorted. Still wish we had some half decent public transport though.

westtip

Did anyone see this propaganda movie about irish rail last night

http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10088571/

Hilarious stuff on he WRC - apparently according to West on Track we need the whole thing before it can be properly judged.#

Frank Macdonald of the IT had it right:

"Western Rail corridor is quite simply a fantasy, lack of density of population and between Claremorris and Sligo 200 level crossings, People in the west of ireland have got to face up to that"

Well said Frank - many in the west already agree with you!!
.

Our man in Havana

The Social Welfare Express will have to close sooner rather than later.

coylemj

westtip wrote: »

Did anyone see this propaganda movie about irish rail last night

http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10088571/

Hilarious stuff on he WRC - apparently according to West on Track we need the whole thing before it can be properly judged.#

Frank Macdonald of the IT had it right:

"Western Rail corridor is quite simply a fantasy, lack of density of population and between Claremorris and Sligo 200 level crossings, People in the west of ireland have got to face up to that"

Well said Frank - many in the west already agree with you!!
.

But the deluded proponents of the WRC won't agree. First they cook the numbers to justify public money being spent on the project, then when their numbers are shown to be false they fall back and blame IR for not promoting the line - where are the thousands of people they claimed would use it daily? Is it IR's fault that they never existed in the first place?

And please don't justify it on the basis of 'regional development'. The last time that was thrown in our faces (Maire Geoghean-Quinn) to defend the indefensible was to justify the Shannon stopover. This involved planes being forced to land at Shannon going to & coming from the US even though in a lot of cases the vast majority of the passengers were starting from or going to Dublin and they could easily have allowed at least one flight each day to fly DUB-NYC nonstop but no, 'regional development' meant that you had to stop in Shannon going both ways whether you liked it or not.

Sponge Bob

coylemj wrote: »

And please don't justify it on the basis of 'regional development'. The last time that was thrown in our faces (Maire Geoghean-Quinn) to defend the indefensible was to justify the Shannon stopover.

Well actually regional development never went away. I am involved in driving a few €100m worth of regional development projects myself right now and thankfully there is a vital national dimension to them as well. It is instructive that they play to our advantages rather than our disadvantages.

However none of them involve reactivating substandard light railway alignments that never even made sense in the heyday of the railways between 1860 and 1890 .

I'd sooner spend the money researching teleportation between Sligo and Tuam, I know that wouldn't work either but at least I'd have a bit of crack while blowing the cash.

dowlingm

If the county councils of the West wanted to show their commitment to rail travel by grade separating the crossings on their tab, I doubt IE would stop them. It seems though that most road/rail separations or level crossing improvements get charged to IE when arguably it should be a co-payment between IE and the responsible Road Authority. There is frequent criticism of what IE has been doing with the money they got from government in the 2000s but replacing waybeams on dodgy bridges and converting gates and AHBs to CCTV monitored full barrier crossings are neither cheap nor sexy.

One of the hallmarks of how the WRC phase 1 was a fiasco, done on the cheap to fulfill the "you can build it for buttons" rhetoric of WIRC is that Kiltartan crossing still exists when instead it should have been grade separated like the boreen this Street View was taken from. The same with Ardrahan although that is less of an issue since there's a halt nearby.

Sponge Bob

dowlingm wrote: »

like the boreen this Street View was taken from.

That 'boreen' is the original road that was replaced by the level crossing around 1970.

dowlingm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

That 'boreen' is the original road that was replaced by the level crossing around 1970.

Thought as much. Should have made it one way with a second bridge in parallel.

westtip

Sponge Bob wrote: »

That 'boreen' is the original road that was replaced by the level crossing around 1970.

dowlingm wrote: »

Thought as much. Should have made it one way with a second bridge in parallel.

Looks like the usual long term vision when it comes to planning - my guess is back in 1970's when the new road replaced the old one building a bridge for the new road would have been a lot more expensive than the level crossing approach, and the world was a different place apart from the fact - we were cash strapped then as well. Ah well just think between Claremorris and collooney there are apparently nearly 300 railway crossings -so when that happens (sic), we can have lots more photos like this one - btw how many level crossings are there between Athenry and Claremorris, I don't believe the line is as peppered with them as on the light railway built in the 1890s from Claremorris to Collooney. Does anyone know?

Just as an aside isn't building bridges a problem when it comes to when new roads meet old rail lines - I seem to remember reading somewhere the m3 cuts through the navan line somewhere along the line, I may be completely wrong but got a feeling I saw it on this thread or is predecessor somewhere.

maninasia

end of the road wrote: »

ah but shur why would you take the train when you could take instead (a bus with a jacks) sure it may be cheeper but just because something is cheep doesn't automatically make it the best option for everyone, train wins hands down for me all the time because of comfort ease and it takes me right to where i need to go, sure the bus is way cheeper but it just doesn't suit me.

Sure I'd like to take Concorde to New York when it was flying, pity I could never afford it, like 99% of the population.
EDIT- probably the first time Irish Rail and Concorde have appeared in the same sentence!
EDIT- seems my sarcasm meter was out of batteries yesterday!

Sponge Bob

westtip wrote: »

Looks like the usual long term vision when it comes to planning - my guess is back in 1970's when the new road replaced the old one building a bridge for the new road would have been a lot more expensive than the level crossing approach, and the world was a different place apart from the fact - we were cash strapped then as well.

A lot of them, eg around Ballindine, replaced MANNED level crossings don't forget. The housheens are still there.

I seem to remember reading somewhere the m3 cuts through the navan line somewhere along the line, I may be completely wrong but got a feeling I saw it on this thread or is predecessor somewhere.

Not 'somewhere', here....as in here and here

westtip

Sponge Bob wrote: »

A lot of them, eg around Ballindine, replaced MANNED level crossings don't forget. The housheens are still there.




Not 'somewhere', here....as in here and here

I take it the M3 bridges over the old rail alignment weren't built then!!! On the WRC can you imagine how slow trains on the northern branch line would be with the number of railway crossings there would have to be....Maybe there was cunning plan to have a railway crossing on the m3 as there is apparently so little traffic on it (the M3).

Of course the issue of railway crossings north of athenry is all a bit of fantasy - to quote Frank Macdonald in relation to the fantasy of the WRC, when the new M17/18 is built - as one of the few projects that is apparently going to happen from north or Gort to just north of Tuam, this whole thing will be quietly brushed under the carpet for another government to address. The Fianna Fail/Sinn Fein incoming coalition (ahem watch this space strange bedfellows love power), will of course promise the WRC, WOT will believe them, numerous more feasibility studies will be done, the FF/SF coalition will run out of steam/time and then the next government in about 7/8 years time will offer the same ....and groundhog day will come around again and again.....

This thread will be on post number 12, 570 ...........

Sponge Bob

westtip wrote: »

I take it the M3 bridges over the old rail alignment weren't built then!!!

They were once enquiries were made as to WFT was happening. It'd make a lovely greenway for now with the nearby Bective bridge over the Boyne in such good nick.

then the next government in about 7/8 years time will offer the same ....and groundhog day will come around again and again.....

Like every politician in Galway promised to drain the Dunkellin river starting with the original Free State government and ending (nearly) with Martin Mansergh.

In 2012 they are 'planning away' still. They can chuck the WRC into that neverland and build a greenway on it for 'inspection and surveying purposes' in the interim.

http://www.galway.ie/en/about/Finance/AnnualBudgets/Budget2012/FilesTable/Budget%202012%20Report.pdf

planning is continuing for the Major Schemes on the Dunkellin and
Clare Rivers.

Supposed to be finished an EIS and gone to an Bord Pleanála before the summer, did it green bananas.

westtip

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Supposed to be finished an EIS and gone to an Bord Pleanála before the summer, did it green bananas.

Never thought I would agree with ronald reagan - but he came up with a phrase "too much government", it's an apt way of describing why it takes so long to get things done here - to many "stakeholders" too much government - even on the greenway idea - if the WRC does officially get kicked into touch instead of being allowed a slow agonising death on its own sword, and the greenway does get the nod to happen - we will have so many stakeholders involved it will take years to happen, Government and administration strangles progress in this country.... and then there is the problem of which politician or brand of government wants to claim the idea. An example is Varadakars big new idea for a greenway across the country and rather pompously instructing "his" department to investigate the idea - when in actual fact the idea is already in the programme for government, to much flannel and huff and puff from our politicians and not enough action on the ground. Too much Government.

westtip

Jim Higgins is drinking too much Belgium Trappiste beer out there in Brussels

http://www.galwaynews.ie/29101-call-investment-western-rail-corridor

It does make you wonder how these peoples minds work!!! Ive got this really great idea - we invested in a railway that nobody wanted, nobody used it so lets waste more money investing in extending it!!!

CrowdedHouse

You won't believe me but Saturday morning at 1129 I was stopped by the crossing in Oranmore. Two railcars passed heading for Galway and they actually looked pretty full !!

LXFlyer

There's an online promotion for the Christmas market in Galway.

westtip

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

You won't believe me but Saturday morning at 1129 I was stopped by the crossing in Oranmore. Two railcars passed heading for Galway and they actually looked pretty full !!

Must have been the WOT Christmas outing.:D

serfboard

westtip wrote: »

Jim Higgins is drinking too much Belgium Trappiste beer out there in Brussels

http://www.galwaynews.ie/29101-call-investment-western-rail-corridor

It does make you wonder how these peoples minds work!!! Ive got this really great idea - we invested in a railway that nobody wanted, nobody used it so lets waste more money investing in extending it!!!

From your link:

Galway Bay FM wrote:

Iarnród Éireann has announced it's to reduce its daily services on the Galway to Limerick line due to a lack of passenger demand.

The schedule will be reduced from six to five each way journeys daily which involves cutting the 11.55 Limerick to Galway service and the 12.10 Galway to Limerick service.

... Barry Kenny of Iarnród Éireann says the services cut on the Limerick line were not heavily loaded.

No shít Barry! If this thing could work, it would most likely only work on commuter rush-hour times, and, tipping my hat to another post, possibly on busy shopping days.

Can you imagine how many people were on the trains at 12 noon on weekdays?! (Ah come on, Barry, tell us - please!)

munchkin_utd

anyhow, on a positive note the new draft timetable for Galway-Limerick sees a number of trains extended to Limerick Junction meaning a 1 change journey From Galway to Cork becomes possible, which in all honesty makes the idea of Cork-Galway by train now actually half ways attractive compared to the sometimes 3 change journey it can currently be.

Now the only stumbling block to anyone considering using the Western Rail corridor is the price.
Seeing as theres no promo rates on the Cork-Galway route even off peak, you are realisticly looking at a price north of €60 return regular price (although the only info on the Irish rail site is for a Cork-Limerick + Limerick-Galway ticket which is €90 return!).

That doesn't really compare favourably to paying €26.50 return for the hourly bus that takes more or less the same time.

goingnowhere

Might not be 100% accurate but it's probably close http://www.railusers.ie/passenger_info/fare_calc_2013.php?station_from=CORK&station_to=GALWY&stage1=Submit

purplepanda

Reduced services from six to five return journeys on Galway Limerick whilst Limerick Junction Waterford gets reduced from three to two return trips :rolleyes:

At least more feasible connections & journeys are possible like Galway Cork, but the timetable should also have been updated to allow similar integrated journeys to Waterford.

Even better would be Galway / Limerick to Cork / Waterford without the changing trains & waiting about which puts potential passengers off using railways.

Running longer distance, properly connected services to other regional destinations might well increase passenger numbers on the WRC. It's worth a try at least

Even if it means cutting the frequency of underused services on the WRC & bypassing some stations on off peak services :pac:

serfboard

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Now the only stumbling block to anyone considering using the Western Rail corridor is the price. ...

That doesn't really compare favourably to paying €26.50 return for the hourly bus that takes more or less the same time.

Wrong. Price is not the only stumbling block now. You're forgetting about the Citylink express service to Cork which gets you from Galway->Cork in 2:50 and which even throws in a trip to Cork Airport too!

And just as they've shown on Galway->Dublin, their prices will (almost) always be cheaper, specially at peak times, without massive subsidy from IE, which ain't gonna happen on Galway->Cork, given the passenger numbers involved.

Oh, and when/if the M18 is finished and the M20 is built, expect those times to come under 2:30 or better.

No way is the train gonna compete with that.

The Idyl Race

westtip wrote: »

Never thought I would agree with ronald reagan

Fúcking sell out

No pasaran!

munchkin_utd

serfboard wrote: »

Wrong. Price is not the only stumbling block now. You're forgetting about the Citylink express service to Cork which gets you from Galway->Cork in 2:50 and which even throws in a trip to Cork Airport too!

And just as they've shown on Galway->Dublin, their prices will (almost) always be cheaper, specially at peak times, without massive subsidy from IE, which ain't gonna happen on Galway->Cork, given the passenger numbers involved.

Oh, and when/if the M18 is finished and the M20 is built, expect those times to come under 2:30 or better.

No way is the train gonna compete with that.

that bus is a pretty good service on the face of it.
Does it manage to achieve the claimed times at peak rush hour?
It has Limerick to Cork timetabled at 1h20min but I've seen others driving by car mention times far longer than that, and that's not city centre to city centre.

And thats not taking into account how bad Limerick or Galway can be when they are busy.

corktina

serfboard wrote: »

Wrong. Price is not the only stumbling block now. You're forgetting about the Citylink express service to Cork which gets you from Galway->Cork in 2:50 and which even throws in a trip to Cork Airport too!

And just as they've shown on Galway->Dublin, their prices will (almost) always be cheaper, specially at peak times, without massive subsidy from IE, which ain't gonna happen on Galway->Cork, given the passenger numbers involved.

Oh, and when/if the M18 is finished and the M20 is built, expect those times to come under 2:30 or better.

No way is the train gonna compete with that.

the train wont compete with that, you are right. It wont because the WRC is a cobbling together of various branch lines and bits of lines offering a stopping service to tiny places (which only get to get a station because they used to have one decades ago ) on an indirect route whilst having pretentions to be INTER CITY.

Citylink have clearly found their best bet is a fast GALWAY LIMERICK CORK express service. IE could learn from this and drop the tiny stops, thus speeding the end to end service.
Reducing the service from 6 to 5 trains each way will simply reduce the usefulness and is clearly a nail in the coffin.

Reducing the service to Waterford from Lim Junction is a sure sign that it wont survive much longer. I haven't seen much effort put into promoting the route, which serves some quite important towns and should be doing better if it had a decent service.

serfboard

munchkin_utd wrote: »

that bus is a pretty good service on the face of it.
Does it manage to achieve the claimed times at peak rush hour?
It has Limerick to Cork timetabled at 1h20min but I've seen others driving by car mention times far longer than that, and that's not city centre to city centre.

And thats not taking into account how bad Limerick or Galway can be when they are busy.

That's where a train always has an advantage over a bus.

I can't tell you how near or far the services are to the timetables in rush hours. I can say that the Bus Lanes in Limerick and Galway have improved things, though personally I'd be in favour of more bus lanes.

When they make me Transport Czar, I'll be putting bus (and train) park and rides on the outskirts of our cities, and running bus services from there. :rolleyes:

The park and ride at Athenry train station is a good example - it used to be about 10 spaces, now it's probably around 60 (if not more).

ongarboy

corktina wrote: »

the train wont compete with that, you are right. It wont because the WRC is a cobbling together of various branch lines and bits of lines offering a stopping service to tiny places (which only get to get a station because they used to have one decades ago ) on an indirect route whilst having pretentions to be INTER CITY.

Citylink have clearly found their best bet is a fast GALWAY LIMERICK CORK express service. IE could learn from this and drop the tiny stops, thus speeding the end to end service.
Reducing the service from 6 to 5 trains each way will simply reduce the usefulness and is clearly a nail in the coffin.

Reducing the service to Waterford from Lim Junction is a sure sign that it wont survive much longer. I haven't seen much effort put into promoting the route, which serves some quite important towns and should be doing better if it had a decent service.

Anytime they propose dropping a station from a route (even just from certain services on the route) there is uproar and you have classic parochial politics interfering. They tried that with a Tralee to Dublin early morning service a few years ago and dropped Farranfore, Rathmore and Banteer which sped up the journey time but because of a backlash, they were reinstated (even if the most vocal complainants weren't the ones who ever used the damn service!). Likewise with Broombridge on the M3 Parkway to Docklands service - got reinstated due to uproar but rarely do I see a passenger get on/off even though I use it daily.

serfboard

ongarboy wrote: »

Anytime they propose dropping a station from a route (even just from certain services on the route) there is uproar and you have classic parochial politics interfering. They tried that with a Tralee to Dublin early morning service a few years ago and dropped Farranfore, Rathmore and Banteer which sped up the journey time but because of a backlash, they were reinstated (even if the most vocal complainants weren't the ones who ever used the damn service!). Likewise with Broombridge on the M3 Parkway to Docklands service - got reinstated due to uproar but rarely do I see a passenger get on/off even though I use it daily.

That's just typical of what's wrong with this country - close or downgrade a station and people will be up in arms. But ask them to use it and, well now, that's a different matter entirely.

Even the WRC itself originally got built by WOT organising a petition saying "Would ye like a train service?", rather than "If we spend over 100 million on a train service will ye use it?". Of course, if they had asked that, the answer would have been "Of course we'll use it, we promise we'll use it".

Pathetic passenger numbers show that not to be the case. And this BS about insufficient marketing is just that - bullshít.