Wiring for Massey Ferguson 35X

Deskjet

can anybody tell me how i would go about wiring the lights alternator etc correctly for a 35x. Wiring diagram with colour coding or a brief explanation would be helpful and get me started

snowman707

http://vintagetractorengineer.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/mf35-wiring-diagram001.pdf

emaherx

snowman707 wrote: »

http://vintagetractorengineer.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/mf35-wiring-diagram001.pdf

That is the correct wiring diagram for the original dynamo setup.

OP are you wiring an original type dynamo or retro fitting a modern alternator?
An alternator will require a new type lucas ignition switch and dash mounted bulb.

Deskjet

Thanks fellas for the diagram. It is the original altenator that is on the tractor. would i get all these different colours of wires in a tractor shop as a set or how do i start. I have absolutely no idea what to do here so any help would be great.

emaherx

you can buy the complete loom from any MF dealer or vintage tractor specialist, also try EBay.
you won't even need the diagram if you take this approach.

Casinoking

Deskjet wrote: »

Thanks fellas for the diagram. It is the original altenator that is on the tractor. would i get all these different colours of wires in a tractor shop as a set or how do i start. I have absolutely no idea what to do here so any help would be great.

I don't mean to be smart but if there's an alternator on the tractor it's not original. They were all originally fitted with dynamos. Bear that in mind if you're working off an original wiring diagram

emaherx

Casinoking wrote: »

I don't mean to be smart but if there's an alternator on the tractor it's not original. They were all originally fitted with dynamos. Bear that in mind if you're working off an original wiring diagram

I am guessing from his reply to my previous post to clearify that, he is calling the original dynamo an alternator. I'm sure its a common mistake.

OP if your not sure if its an alternator or a dynamo. Basicly the most notable diffrance is with an alternator you have to turn off tractor using key after you pull the stopper. If its a dynamo then you can just pull stopper and walk away.

mossfort

i suppose the fact that an alternator looks totally different to a dynamo could be another clue.:)

emaherx

mossfort wrote: »

i suppose the fact that an alternator looks totally different to a dynamo could be another clue.:)

That would really help someone who dosen't know the diffrence. You could say the same about any two things. besides they look similar enough if you don't know that old engines have dynamos rather than alternators. Most people with limited engine knowlage would mistake a dynamo for an alternator.

Micksheenb

A dynamo is generally just a cylinder, with a pulley on one end and one output wire going to a little box called a regulator iirc.
An alternator will be ventilated, and have two wires going to it, usually a heavy red wire and a light blue one, with no seperate regulator, they are built in.

emaherx

Micksheenb wrote: »

A dynamo is generally just a cylinder, with a pulley on one end and one output wire going to a little box called a regulator iirc.
An alternator will be ventilated, and have two wires going to it, usually a heavy red wire and a light blue one, with no seperate regulator, they are built in.

pretty good description. Although some older alternators are externally regulated also. I still think the easyiest way to know if you are dealing with an alternator over a dynamo is; you have to switch an alernator off when you stop the engine.

Deskjet

its a dynamo alright, i was just replying quickly without really thinking about the detail to much. Why do i not need the diagram if i get the wiring loom, what exactly will come as part of this wiring loom .is that the cheapest way of rewiring the tractor. thanks for the help everybody

Micksheenb

emaherx wrote: »

pretty good description. Although some older alternators are externally regulated also. I still think the easyiest way to know if you are dealing with an alternator over a dynamo is; you have to switch an alernator off when you stop the engine.

Never encountered that myself, but thats not saying much..

Deskjet wrote: »

its a dynamo alright, i was just replying quickly without really thinking about the detail to much. Why do i not need the diagram if i get the wiring loom, what exactly will come as part of this wiring loom .is that the cheapest way of rewiring the tractor. thanks for the help everybody

There isint too much to a tractor of that age re. wiring, we had to re-wire a MF 290 here when one of the wires at the starter shorted and melted part of the loom.

We got a replacement loom with everything tagged where it goes to, off Sylvan tractor spares outside kells, co. meath. might not be the cheapest option, but it should be done for once and for all.

emaherx

Complete loom is pretty obvious where the wires go as mentioned above. Diagram wont do any harm if your not sure but you'll know when you see one. Also buying complete loom is very neat compared to making your own from scratch plus may be more relaible than wires crimpped yourself.

marlyman

a new loom is the easiest and cheapest option as its color coded to match this diagram. keep in mind some looms, including massey looms are not color coded to match the origional diagram. i learned this the hard way.

also you will need to polarise the dynamo when you get it.

Micksheenb

marlyman wrote: »

a new loom is the easiest and cheapest option as its color coded to match this diagram. keep in mind some looms, including massey looms are not color coded to match the origional diagram. i learned this the hard way.

also you will need to polarise the dynamo when you get it.

What does it mean to polarise the dynamo?

emaherx

look at this link http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/htm/gen.htm.
the dynamo will only need to be polarized if it is new or has not been used for a long time.

Micksheenb

emaherx wrote: »

look at this link http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/htm/gen.htm.
the dynamo will only need to be polarized if it is new or has not been used for a long time.

Thats very interesting, cheers for that.

Deskjet

again thanks for all the help lads, ill also have to get a new set of head lights the originals are in bad shape and the loom definitely sounds like the way to go and that way i will hopefully be done with it.

Deskjet

Lads some help, 35x would not start so i took the battery out and put it on a charger seemed to charge ok. Put the battery back in and it started first turn and started first turn the evening after. This evening all i get is a clicking noise when i turn the key. one of the clasps is snapped that fix on to the terminals so this is probably more than likely the problem. But what i am wondering also is have i put the correct leads to the correct terminal on the battery. I have put the lead that is connected to the body of the tractor on the positive terminal and i have put the other lead that is connected to the starter motor to the negative terminal is this correct ? ?

who the fug

Deskjet wrote: »

Lads some help, 35x would not start so i took the battery out and put it on a charger seemed to charge ok. Put the battery back in and it started first turn and started first turn the evening after. This evening all i get is a clicking noise when i turn the key. one of the clasps is snapped that fix on to the terminals so this is probably more than likely the problem. But what i am wondering also is have i put the correct leads to the correct terminal on the battery. I have put the lead that is connected to the body of the tractor on the positive terminal and i have put the other lead that is connected to the starter motor to the negative terminal is this correct ? ?

Negative = earth = wire to body of tractor

Positive = live = wire to the starter

snowman707

who the fug wrote: »

Negative = earth = wire to body of tractor

Positive = live = wire to the starter

NOT Always,

some of the older tractors were positive earth
"Be aware that MF35 tractors can be both positive and negative earth, so check this first before flashing the dynamo."

http://www.ssbtractor.com/wwwboard/view_all.cgi?bd=massey&msg=13376

who the fug

snowman707 wrote: »

NOT Always,

some of the older tractors were positive earth
"Be aware that MF35 tractors can be both positive and negative earth, so check this first before flashing the dynamo."

http://www.ssbtractor.com/wwwboard/view_all.cgi?bd=massey&msg=13376

Sorry me bad.

Deskjet

Thanks lads but i am still not really any the wiser.

emaherx

IF its a 35X then its going to be a later model with negative earth.

Deskjet

i should of mentioned earlier that the cable that is connected to the starter motor has a green wire connected to the clasp that connects to the terminal (which ever terminal it is supposed to be i.e positive or negative). This goes back in under the dash probably to earth the lights ? ? The clasp or what ever it is called is different than the one on the other side in that it has two screws and one of these has the green wire connected to it.

Casinoking

If the tractor started with the leads on as you have described then they're on the right way around, otherwise the starter would spin in the wrong direction. TE-20's and some 35's were positive earth originally but as far as I know all 35x's were negative earth, same as a 135. The problem is more than likely the broken terminal as you have already mentioned

emaherx

The negative terminal will be slightly smaller. Look at the battery the two poles are slightly different sizes

Deskjet

yea i thought it could be the broken clasp but i could not understand why the battery was starting first tip for two evenings in a row and then just the clicking noise the third evening it could be that the battery is just shot coul could be the clasp. but i was wondering would having the terminals connected to the wrong cables have drained the battery. I think i had the battery set up correctly - Positive terminal connected to body of tractor : Negative Terminal connected to starter motor.

Deskjet

Casinoking wrote: »

If the tractor started with the leads on as you have described then they're on the right way around, otherwise the starter would spin in the wrong direction. TE-20's and some 35's were positive earth originally but as far as I know all 35x's were negative earth, same as a 135. The problem is more than likely the broken terminal as you have already mentioned

By negative earth does that mean that the negative terminal is connected to the cable connected to the starter motor because that is the way i started out.

Avns1s

I have never seen a 35X positive earth so I am guessing your tractor should be Negative earth so therefore the cable from the +ve terminal of the battery should be connected to the top heavy connection on the solenoid and the -ve terminal of the battery should be connected to the terminal on the front of the starter.

snowman707

Deskjet wrote: »

By negative earth does that mean that the negative terminal is connected to the cable connected to the starter motor because that is the way i started out.

no that is positive earth

I will have re read the thread to morrow I forget your original query , too tired now

Avns1s

snowman707 wrote: »

no that is positive earth

I will have re read the thread to morrow I forget your original query , too tired now

Not necessarily, for negative earth, the negative terminal is attached to the front of the body of the starter and the positive cable is connected to the solenoid..... which sits on top of the starter.

snowman707

Avns1s wrote: »

Not necessarily, for negative earth, the negative terminal is attached to the front of the body of the starter and the positive cable is connected to the solenoid..... which sits on top of the starter.

correct,

i thought he meant (-) to the solenoid,

better go to bed before I cause a fire

Deskjet

Avns1s wrote: »

Not necessarily, for negative earth, the negative terminal is attached to the front of the body of the starter and the positive cable is connected to the solenoid..... which sits on top of the starter.

Sorry for causing all the confusion lads. ~This is what i have - positive terminal of the battery is connected to the body/engine block of the tractor no where near the starter as far as i am aware. Negative terminal of the battery is connected to the top of the starter. is this correct.Is this negative earthing

emaherx

No thats positive earth.
Think of the engine block/ tractor body as the earth.

Avns1s

snowman707 wrote: »

correct,

i thought he meant (-) to the solenoid,

better go to bed before I cause a fire

Deskjet

how exactly do i wire in the lights. where exactly do the wires from the the head lights etc go to.

marlyman

Deskjet wrote: »

how exactly do i wire in the lights. where exactly do the wires from the the head lights etc go to.

not to be smart but from your wiring knowledge show so far you shouldnt be wiring a tractor at all. by that i mean even when someone wires a tractor when and they're good at it ca still do it wrong. ive seen laods of tractors in flames from bad wiring.

that said if you still want to do it, you have a light switch on the dash - which takes in power from the 2 position on the ignition switch which should be fused inline. the you have a pole on the switch for parks, a pole for dims and a pole for heads. pake take in the 2 white bullet lamps on the mudguards and rear lamps on the first stage. dims fires on the front lights at the second stage and the third stage put on heads. the plough lamp goes on at stage one i think also.

a handy tool is a continuity tester for tracing wires. i like to use six core cable for the job as its less messy.

it you need more detail fire me a pm and ill get you the origional instructions. always rememver EVERY TRACTOR SHOULD HAVE A KILL SWITCH. theyre cheap and prevent a fire.

pakalasa

marlyman,

How is the kill-switch wired?
Surely the full load of the starter doesn't go through it?
If not, it doesnt fully isolate everything!

marlyman

i have it breaking the negative batter cable. between the treminal on the battery ant the earth.

Deskjet

Thanks Marlyman,
Not smart at all it is very sound advice to stay away from it all together but i have learned alot from this discussion, even if i never do anything with the wiring its good to learn something. i think i can follow the wiring loom pretty easily from the diagram and following the one that already is there. i know that i must have the lights etc properly earthed to the tractor. the most akward part is gettin access underneath the dash. also knowing what parts to get, such as the six core cable i guess all these are readily available in tractor part stores. there was also a license plate light on the back of the seat that i would like to replace and wire up . how do you send a pm. the power seems to be coming directly frrom the ammeter could that be possible ? ? does not sound safe compared to what you are proposing

marlyman

Deskjet wrote: »

Thanks Marlyman,
Not smart at all it is very sound advice to stay away from it all together but i have learned alot from this discussion, even if i never do anything with the wiring its good to learn something. i think i can follow the wiring loom pretty easily from the diagram and following the one that already is there. i know that i must have the lights etc properly earthed to the tractor. the most akward part is gettin access underneath the dash. also knowing what parts to get, such as the six core cable i guess all these are readily available in tractor part stores. there was also a license plate light on the back of the seat that i would like to replace and wire up . how do you send a pm. the power seems to be coming directly frrom the ammeter could that be possible ? ? does not sound safe compared to what you are proposing

for transperency, pm sent to deskjet

Figerty

I have an article from Irish tractor & Machinery that I can scan if for you for the 35 wiring. got the whole lot on it.

Two different version of the Magazine had it March 2009 and Dec 2010 which should still be in the shops.

The also did a fine article on the overhaul of the Lift and linkages this month.

Good magazine, worth having

Deskjet wrote: »

Thanks Marlyman,
Not smart at all it is very sound advice to stay away from it all together but i have learned alot from this discussion, even if i never do anything with the wiring its good to learn something. i think i can follow the wiring loom pretty easily from the diagram and following the one that already is there. i know that i must have the lights etc properly earthed to the tractor. the most akward part is gettin access underneath the dash. also knowing what parts to get, such as the six core cable i guess all these are readily available in tractor part stores. there was also a license plate light on the back of the seat that i would like to replace and wire up . how do you send a pm. the power seems to be coming directly frrom the ammeter could that be possible ? ? does not sound safe compared to what you are proposing

Deskjet

cheers figerty ill see if i can pick up a copy of this in the newsagents

Deskjet

tried to buy irish tractor and machinery in the newsagents but they only have the latest issue i think i can buy back issues of this magazine online is it the one with "wiring clinic" on the cover

Yab da do

Hi all, Hope someone can help. I have a 1961 MF 35 which at a charge problem. (NOTE:tractor is positive earth, earth cable from battery going to the engine block, and negative going to the starter). The tractor is running fine but the battery was not charging. The ammeter showed a discharge when the lights were on but no increase in amps when reeving the engine. I tested the dynamo with multimeter and it no generating a charge. I brought the dynamo to be reconditioned and was told the armature was damaged and it need a new bearing, and it was cheaper to by a new one. I got a new one and put it on the tractor, connect it as per the original. I checked the ammeter and noticed the charge was generating negatively. The guy in the shop where i bought the part has been very helpful in the past and i called him for some advice. He told me I should swap the contacts on the battery and the problem maybe be resolved. I did this with no effect and the charge is still negative on the ammeter. I don't want to try anything else with out getting further advice. From the little I know I think i have to polarizing the dynamo which i believe maybe the problem.

Figerty

Yab da do wrote: »

Hi all, Hope someone can help. I have a 1961 MF 35 which at a charge problem. (NOTE:tractor is positive earth, earth cable from battery going to the engine block, and negative going to the starter). The tractor is running fine but the battery was not charging. The ammeter showed a discharge when the lights were on but no increase in amps when reeving the engine. I tested the dynamo with multimeter and it no generating a charge. I brought the dynamo to be reconditioned and was told the armature was damaged and it need a new bearing, and it was cheaper to by a new one. I got a new one and put it on the tractor, connect it as per the original. I checked the ammeter and noticed the charge was generating negatively. The guy in the shop where i bought the part has been very helpful in the past and i called him for some advice. He told me I should swap the contacts on the battery and the problem maybe be resolved. I did this with no effect and the charge is still negative on the ammeter. I don't want to try anything else with out getting further advice. From the little I know I think i have to polarizing the dynamo which i believe maybe the problem.

Yes, you have to polarise the dynamo, How to do it is something I have forgotten! I think you have to disconnect the battery and touch one of the dynamo terminals with a lead from the battery directly.

ABlur

Re polarising theres a link on page 2 of this thread.

Yab da do

Sorry i re-read my original posting and want to be clear on the polarity of the tractor. The negative was connected to the starter and the positive was connected to the engine block.

The tractor had been running perfect for years with no issue. battery stopped charging and it turn put to be the dynamo. When new dynamo was installed i found the amp meter needle was moving in the negative direction when i rev the tractor.

To correct the issue to asked the guy in the shop where i bought the dynamo and he told me to change to connections on the battery. The tractor now has the positive connected to the started and the negative to the engine block. I started the tractor and the problem still exists.

I contacted the with the guy who sold me the dynamo again. He said to leave the connections on the battery with the positive connected to the started and the negative to the engine block as this is standard for all tractors now. He said i should swap the connections on the amp-meter and this would resolve the problem. If not i should put the connection on the amp meter back to the original setup and then polarize the battery. Does this should like good advice?

Figerty

Yab da do wrote: »

Sorry i re-read my original posting and want to be clear on the polarity of the tractor. The negative was connected to the starter and the positive was connected to the engine block.

The tractor had been running perfect for years with no issue. battery stopped charging and it turn put to be the dynamo. When new dynamo was installed i found the amp meter needle was moving in the negative direction when i rev the tractor.

To correct the issue to asked the guy in the shop where i bought the dynamo and he told me to change to connections on the battery. The tractor now has the positive connected to the started and the negative to the engine block. I started the tractor and the problem still exists.

I contacted the with the guy who sold me the dynamo again. He said to leave the connections on the battery with the positive connected to the started and the negative to the engine block as this is standard for all tractors now. He said i should swap the connections on the amp-meter and this would resolve the problem. If not i should put the connection on the amp meter back to the original setup and then polarize the battery. Does this should like good advice?

I don't think he right. A positive earth isn't unusual and nothing wrong with it and your Battery cables will refelect the position, Putting them on the wrong way is a hassle.
The dynamo need to be polarised to create the magnetic field for the correct current flow. Your voltage regulator will getting fed current this way also. It should be as simple as touching the field coil with a jump lead from the battery.