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public sector downing all tools indefinitely...is it a reality?

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  • 11-12-2009 10:19am
    #1
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭


    how real is this?

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/budget/news/budget-2010-cowen-to-hold-firm-as-unions-threaten-strikes-1971232.html
    "It is open to us to name a day in February and say 'that's the day we're stopping and we won't be starting again until there is some resolution one way or another'," Mr O'Connor said.


    will the government back down if this were to happen? Did the Government create some room for negogiation after the budget? i.e looking for 4billion in cuts but would negotiate down to 3billion if the above situation was to happen? It looks like the unions are willing to destroy the country to reverse the budget and with the gardai ballot about to take place... this is all extremely worrying!


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    #2
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users Posts: 10,798 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    personally i dont think that would happen. the goverment would have the backing of a sizeabloe portion of the population and i do not think the strikes would be well received. plus in reality i believe the cuts could have been a lot worse.


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    #3
    neilthefunkeone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,522 ✭✭✭neilthefunkeone


    The unions will prob push it but i reckon the members, after just taking a paycut, dont want to lose anymore wages...


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    #4
    frman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭frman


    Public Sector Workers have bills to pay like everyone else.

    Any strike action will not last long at all. Especially once it finally sinks in that this is a battle that they can't possibly win.

    Easy for JOC to talk tough when he wont have to go without his salary during any strike.


    Back to work now, carry on.


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    #5
    hem
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29 ✭hem


    Wow, just think of all the money that would be saved. 50 million a day by previous estimates.


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    #6
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,706 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Hopefully they'll take their twelve unpaid days off and save future generations some of the debt burden.


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    #7
    heavyballs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,683 ✭✭✭heavyballs


    it's time the pub s/cs should cop on,look at their payers (the gov and us ps workers)as a company,they can't afford to pay your wages at the going rate.
    in lots of private companys people are being called in,boss says we can't afford the wages at current rates,what can you do? accept it,get on with it,grow up,your not actually that hard done by
    they should be sacking the goons and increasing productivity so that the lazy b's in the civil service in particular can no longer hide behind their hard working collegue's


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    #8
    Inspector Coptoor
    Registered Users Posts: 6,818 ✭✭✭Inspector Coptoor


    I wouldnt be in favour of downing tools at all.
    the idea of going on strike and my leaving cert students sitting at home really pisses me off.
    It is time to get on with it.
    i dont like what they've done but as long as this is the end of targeting us, it's time to move on and get the work done.


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    #9
    future_plans
    Closed Accounts Posts: 380 ✭✭future_plans


    To be fair, I think the bottom end were hard done by in that budget. That 5% cut could have been avoided and the balance regained through a minimal tax increase at the higher rate. It would not have adversely affected the economy. That 5% is ultimately money that would have been put straight back into the economy.

    The higher salary cuts are justified in my opinion. I know plenty of PS workers (particularly Gardai) in this 30 - 70k bracket who have been away on holidays a few times already this year and bought new cars. Now, I've nothing against people going on hols or buying cars, but please do not have the gall to threaten strike because you're struggling.
    Liam Henners257 wrote: »
    I wouldnt be in favour of downing tools at all.
    the idea of going on strike and my leaving cert students sitting at home really pisses me off.
    It is time to get on with it.
    i dont like what they've done but as long as this is the end of targeting us, it's time to move on and get the work done.
    APPLAUSE!!!


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    #10
    Prenderb
    Registered Users Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭Prenderb


    astrofool wrote: »
    Hopefully they'll take their twelve unpaid days off and save future generations some of the debt burden.

    There is no 12 days unpaid leave scheme - that was not agreed to by the government.


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    #11
    --amadeus--
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,096 ✭✭✭--amadeus--


    Liam Henners257 wrote: »
    I wouldnt be in favour of downing tools at all.
    the idea of going on strike and my leaving cert students sitting at home really pisses me off.
    It is time to get on with it.
    i dont like what they've done but as long as this is the end of targeting us, it's time to move on and get the work done.

    Great sentiments and I hope that kind of common sense gets fed up to and understood by teh union leadership


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    #12
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,706 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Prenderb wrote: »
    There is no 12 days unpaid leave scheme - that was not agreed to by the government.

    The point is, if they strike, is it not the same thing? If we can let them strike for 12 days, then we have the savings from the budget, and the savings they were going to agree to anyway.

    Nothing says you're an indispensible member of the public service than being asked to take a two week holiday ;)


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    #13
    Dirk Gently
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,784 ✭✭✭Dirk Gently


    I don't think public members have the resolve for a long strike tbh. It would be different if they were fighting for their jobs and it was all or nothing but in reality their jobs are safe. within a few days people will be filtering back into work. within a week and the majority will be demoralised, especially if the gov show no sign of movement or negotiation. Certainly when the mortgage repayments and loan repayments are due they'll scurry back to work. I know the unions have a big war chest built up but I doubt it's enough to sustain members for any length of time. The gov / media strategy of polarising public and private workers has been too effetive for any major show of solidarity. divide and rule has been all too easy. The public sector has very effectivly been demonised and made the focus of our economic woes.

    The union will be hoping for a quick turnaround I reckon by shocking the government with as big a work stopage as they can achieve. The longer it goes on the more likely it will be that the unions will collapse though, moreso than the gov.

    I'd say the gov are bracing themselves to ride it out untill it collapses. It will be messy, the country might efectivly shut down for a while but really the gov have them over the debt barrell. The major headache for the gov will be the Gardai role in all of this.


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    #14
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Well hopefully the government call their bluff. Leave em strike even if they are out for a few weeks. Break the unions and then push through on efficiency , cull the dead wood and install proper modern management structures that actually turn the PS back into a service for the taxpayer.


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    #15
    RedPlanet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭RedPlanet


    How to cut out the dead wood?
    Could be it's own thread.


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    #16
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,253 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    I really can't see the PS workers going on a general strike. Something tells me that public reaction to the last strike, the proposal for unpaid days and the budget will have filtered through to the vast majority of them.

    Any vote for industrial action called by the likes of O' Connor would be doomed to failure and even if they were stupid enough to vote in favour of it, the government should be able to crush the strike pretty easily.


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    #17
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    future_plans wrote: »
    To be fair, I think the bottom end were hard done by in that budget. That 5% cut could have been avoided and the balance regained through a minimal tax increase at the higher rate. It would not have adversely affected the economy. That 5% is ultimately money that would have been put straight back into the economy.
    BUT it doesn't come out of the economy so it's not going straight back into the economy. It is being borrowed (indirectly) from Germany.

    The 5% of all earnings was the best part of it tbh and will probably reduce the most borrowing of all the various percentages, not small money as people seem to believe, but he should have also targeted the low paid private sector workers and brought them into the tax net. Nobody should be able to work and pay no income tax on it.


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    #18
    johngalway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    They've very little public support now I reckon, after their last antics. Union leaders don't seem to be living on the same planet as us little people at all. Let them strike all they want, paint the country in the worst light and make things worse, that would be their doing. There's how many unemployed now? Start training them up for the troublemakers jobs. I'm sure there are many collecting welfare would be happy to be doing PS/CS jobs even at less wages than now.

    Call their bluff and break the Unions as said.


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    #19
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    February eh? Gives me time to write to my local FF TDs and GP members to let them know they'll not be getting votes from me if they back down on this. (Not that they were getting them anyway, but that's not the point.:pac:)


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    #20
    frman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭frman


    In order for the Unions to be smashed, there has to be a strike.

    I hope they do, and when workers have to go back to work having gained nothing, that will be the end of the unions as we know them.

    Breaking the Unions is now such an important issue for this country.


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    #21
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    frman wrote: »
    In order for the Unions to be smashed, there has to be a strike.

    I hope they do, and when workers have to go back to work having gained nothing, that will be the end of the unions as we know them.

    Breaking the Unions is now such an important issue for this country.

    Cmon Jack "make my day"....


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    #22
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    I'd like to see the beards lead their members to the top of the hill (calling ballots) only to have to march back down again (lose the ballots) rather than the strikes going ahead, but if the members are stupid enough to vote for industrial action (in a basically bankrupt state living on borrowed money) then they need crushing once and for all.

    I think most members will indeed look at O'Connor and Begg etc. on their big fat salaries and start to ask questions of them.....not before time.


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    #23
    joolsveer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭joolsveer


    johngalway wrote: »
    They've very little public support now I reckon, after their last antics. ..................

    Do you think that public support is important to public servants? There has been a sustained campaign against all workers in the public service and it seems to be continuing.

    I am not a public servant but my wife is and she reckons that her salary will be down about 20% because of cuts already made and those yet to be made.


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    #24
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    joolsveer wrote: »
    Do you think that public support is important to public servants? There has been a sustained campaign against all workers in the public service and it seems to be continuing.

    I am not a public servant but my wife is and she reckons that her salary will be down about 20% because of cuts already made and those yet to be made.
    Well, her employer (the state) is broke. Lucky her employer is a country and not a private company or she'd be on the dole with no redundancy right about now, eh?!


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    #25
    ParkRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭ParkRunner


    Sorry to burst your bubble but your fellow workers will not be downing the tools. Industrial action will take the form of a sustained work to rule or the like.


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    #26
    dRNk SAnTA
    Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭dRNk SAnTA


    joolsveer wrote: »
    Do you think that public support is important to public servants? There has been a sustained campaign against all workers in the public service and it seems to be continuing.

    I am not a public servant but my wife is and she reckons that her salary will be down about 20% because of cuts already made and those yet to be made.

    The sustained campaign against public sector workers is based on the fact that cuts are either going to have to come from social welfare or from public sector pay. Considering the generous pay and conditions that public sector workers enoy, the decision is a no brainer.

    You can't expect pay rises in times of inflation and then maintain your income in a time of such high deflation.


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    #27
    joolsveer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭joolsveer


    murphaph wrote: »
    Well, her employer (the state) is broke. Lucky her employer is a country and not a private company or she'd be on the dole with no redundancy right about now, eh?!

    Do you believe the politicians when they say the country is broke? In the Haughey era they lied through their teeth when they said the same thing. How do you account for the money that came in after the tax amnesties otherwise?


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    #28
    frman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭frman


    EF wrote: »
    Sorry to burst your bubble but your fellow workers will not be downing the tools. Industrial action will take the form of a sustained work to rule or the like.


    The general public will notice no difference then.


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    #29
    ParkRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭ParkRunner


    frman wrote: »
    The general public will notice no difference then.

    Funny man. It is not intended to impact the general public, we dont have an agenda to vilify the workers and unemployed of this country, it is the elected representatives it will be directed at.


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    #30
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    EF wrote: »
    Funny man. It is not intended to impact the general public, we dont have an agenda to vilify the workers and unemployed of this country, it is the elected representatives it will be directed at.

    explain work to rule... what duties would you not do?


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    #31
    Flex
    Registered Users Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭Flex


    EF wrote: »
    Sorry to burst your bubble but your fellow workers will not be downing the tools. Industrial action will take the form of a sustained work to rule or the like.

    The "work to rule" approach thats being spouted makes me sick, as does the whole "we coulda got reform if you didnt cut our pay, now we wont ahve another chance for 20 years because we're throwing a hissy fit". What other group of workers can anyone think of that would turn around after taking a paycut from a near bankrupt employer and smuggly say to them and the people who pay their wages to provide services for everyone "OK, so just because my employer is facing bankruptcy he gave me a paycut, so now Im going to be obtuse, and as inefficient and unproductive as I possibly can be". It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Surely if your employer was in such a dire financial position you would endeavour to work even harder and really try to make things more efficient and productive to try improve the situation??? God knows I would.


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