public sector downing all tools indefinitely...is it a reality?

bamboozle

jon1981 wrote: »

why are you there 11 years and only on 31k? why didnt you leave and try to make more money?

cough cough job security cough cough pension cough

frman

BrianD3 wrote: »

LMAO. So being accused of "treason" by the Irish Examiner due to unproven "day of shopping" allegations doesn't constitute vilification.

Who reads the Examiner ?

And yes, it is unproven

No-one interviewed 100% of people in Newry that day.

ntlbell

EF wrote: »

Sorry to burst your bubble but your fellow workers will not be downing the tools. Industrial action will take the form of a sustained work to rule or the like.

does that mean when i'm trying to get through to the motor taxation office no one will answer the phone?

does that mean when someone signs on it will take over 6 months for the application to be looked at?

does that mean when I ring the revenue they won't be able to answer very simple straight forward questions?

does that mean when I ring the local council when my house is flooding it takes them two weeks to come out and 10 of them stand around a manhole for a week?

does that mean phones won't be answered in the hospitals causing blood test results to be delayed?

does that mean when i ring the guards to report a disturbance it takes them hours to arrive?

how is this any different from the normal run of things?

amacachi

ntlbell wrote: »

does that mean when i ring the guards to report a disturbance it takes them hours to arrive?

how is this any different from the normal run of things?

Brilliant when we called them once about some ****ers on the railway line throwing bottles at our car. They turn up half an hour later and meet my dad and me outside our house and the first thing they asked was "what's your address?" ****ing brilliant while the ****ers on the line laughed their heads off. Not too sure how the cops could make that any less effective.

ei.sdraob

quad_red wrote: »

Worked in the public sector for almost two years when I left college. In an office in Dublin. One guy did no work - he just read the paper and made bets all day. I'm being serious here. He did NO work. Not one minute of work in a day beyond maybe answering the phone if everyone else was busy. And even then that would happen on the odd day.

When it came time for computer upgrades, they didn't give him one (cos he did no work). But he went beserk, said this was discriminatory etc. so they put a brand new dell with flatscreen on his desk. So he could look up the football and the horses all day.

In the accounts office three of staff (ladies in their fifties) had refused all upskilling and training so all they did was frank the mail in the morning and shuffle around a few papers. I can remember when it got really busy feeling really galled cos they were all earning 40K plus and I was on 21k per year.

This isn't hearsay or 'my friend has a friend who' anecdotes. I witnessed all of this. And all of these people were 100% secure in the fact that pretty much no matter what they did, they couldn't and wouldn't be fired.

So either I happened to wander into the worst setup in Ireland or this was/is indicative of the way things roll.

ouch

i can confirm similar experience during my employment in 2 semi-state companies (one very large being ESB and one very small being a semi state due to EI buying half the shares)

there are some very nice and hard working people, and then there are those who float along read the independent and other newspapers all day but they cant be fired as they lodged themselves into the fabrik

GalwayITtrainer

I just have to reply to the above uninformed ravings about the public sector from EMBITTERED

* taxi drivers
* unemployed ex-plumbers, carpenters, builders, solicitors, etc,
* various bitter private sector workers.

And other uninformed nutters, typical types who regularly do Joe Duffy's job for him by calling up his show and ranting incoherently.

If the public sector is such an oasis of privilege why did you not take your chance to join it in recent years! Come on answer that ye brave souls. No ye took your chances in the private sector, so face the consequences, shut up and SUCK IT UP.

Get your facts right: there is no homogenous "Public Sector". For example, in the private sector would you compare the likes of an international chain such as HMV with the local record store in a small town?
Just like in the private sector, there are thousands of low paid temporary contract public sector workers being laid off at present. In this budget people earning €30000 have had an unfair and disproportionate cut to their wages, while top earners such as Hospital Consultants who could afford to give much more have got off very lightly.


IBEC are the real winners out of this budget because now that public sector wages have been cut, they will go after the private sector.

SO cop on all you people raving on about the public sector. This is a phoney war which has been orchestrated by the government and some sections of the media over the past year to distract from othe issues. You are just playing into their hands and they love it!
I'd advise you to put your energies into your own lives, such as trying to find a job (or a fare if you're a taxi driver).

onedoubleo

The cuts were bad but I think that they have been compunded by the fact there does not seem to be any future plan in place. We know where the future is with regards demand - Energy. We are an island that could produce enough electricity to start exporting it in 10 years. Tho this is just one example of where we could focus efforts on the long term, if there was even an incling of forward thinking the cuts would be easier to take. A silver lining would be visible.
But based on the reports from those of you who have worked in the PS then setting up this would probable take 40 years and would staff 3 times more than is needed. This is the sad fact facing the PS, if they want the public support they have to have the public interest at heart which means showing that they will work for the money they are given. The image now is one of 3 council workers needed to fill a pot hole, with 2 supervisors and another 1 supervising the supervisor.
It doesnt matter what side of the debate your on the one common knowledge is that REFORM is needed in many areas and that this me me me economy that is lodged in everyones head needs to be replaced with the sense that holy sh*t we f****d up royally everywhere (now just Public or private sector) now lets fix it.

ei.sdraob

GalwayITtrainer wrote: »

If the public sector is such an oasis of privilege why did you not take your chance to join it in recent years!

because everyone cant work in PS

thats called communism

GalwayITtrainer wrote: »

No ye took your chances in the private sector, so face the consequences, shut up and SUCK IT UP.

:rolleyes: consequences and chances, something the PS employees know all about :rolleyes:

average_runner

To GalwayITTrainer


Why dont you "face the consequences, shut up and SUCK IT UP" your getting your wages cut and thats that.

Should also cut your xmas day off for shopping and the 10 days you get paid for when your out sick.

Move your pensions policies to the same as the private, ie goverment gives u 5% a month and you pay the rest.

GalwayITtrainer

ei.sdraob wrote: »

because everyone cant work in PS

thats called communism



Clarification, I never said everyone has to work in the public sector, but seems to me that these embittered souls posting here think they missed on being part of a "golden circle". The politics of envy will get you nowhere....

GalwayITtrainer

average_runner wrote: »

To GalwayITTrainer


Why dont you "face the consequences, shut up and SUCK IT UP" your getting your wages cut and thats that.

Should also cut your xmas day off for shopping and the 10 days you get paid for when your out sick.

Move your pensions policies to the same as the private, ie goverment gives u 5% a month and you pay the rest.

God you sound bitter, as I said already dear boy the politics of envy will get you nowhere. Hope you find a job / better job soon.

gandalf

GalwayITtrainer wrote: »

not worth quoting

You see you still don't get it do you. The PS wage bill is too high it had to come down. The Government have taken action against it.

I agree with only one aspect of your "post" and that is the government should have not cut the wages of the lower paid in the PS it should have lowered the tax threshold for all the lower paid so they were brought into the tax system even for a small contribution. They didn't do that this time, they will next time.

I advise you to put your energies into knuckling down and doing your job and less talk of work to rule and strikes. If any form of action happens now then the government will have the full support of the majority of taxpayers to totally clean house in the PS.

Oh in case you missed it in a l lot of cases private sector wages and jobs have already been cut.

Now I'm off to polish my taxi plate while I queue for the dole :rolleyes:

old boy

cAr0l wrote: »

If there is a work to rule, a lot of the general public will notice a difference unfortunately.
Waiting on your Jobseekers claim to be paid? The wait will be even longer now.
Want to claim taxback? You will be waiting.
Trying to call some department to get your query answered? You won't get an answer on the phone.
etc., etc., etc.
The people most hit by the 5% cut, the clerical officers in every department who before this weren't even taking home €400 a week, are the ones that do all the above.

i am waiting since 9/7/09 for my telephone allowance to be transfered, can you explain is this not work to rule,

gandalf

old boy wrote: »

i am waiting since 9/7/09 for my telephone allowance to be transfered, can you explain is this not work to rule,

No apparently that must be normal service

Padraig Mor

joolsveer wrote: »

Do you believe the politicians when they say the country is broke? In the Haughey era they lied through their teeth when they said the same thing.

:eek:

Do you actually, genuinely believe that the country is not broke? If so, I'll have some of what you're having!

gandalf

Padraig Mor wrote: »

:eek:

Do you actually, genuinely believe that the country is not broke? If so, I'll have some of what you're having!

Dammit they haven't fallen for the ruise, alright lads and lassies off those fake dole queues our deception has been uncovered

average_runner

GalwayITTrainer;

I aint bitter at all but i believe there should be no real difference between the public and private sector, so no special treatment like sick leave or pensions.
By that also the pension levy should go once the pensions are made like the private sector.

I believe the wages need to be readdress, ie if a teacher in public gets more/less than the ones in the private schools etc, they should match.

If a cleaner in public sector gets less than private it should be match, but all the benefits needs to be the same.

Also if the company is going bust there should be redundo's like the private.


Lets make like for like.

No bitterness there just fairness.

BC

ei.sdraob wrote: »

because everyone cant work in PS

True. But lots of PS jobs have been advertised over the years that people did not apply for because they were earning more in the private sector.

I'm a PS worker. I work in IT. I earn less than any of my friends in the same industry in the private sector. Thats fine, i knew that when i signed up, my pay is less, my benefits are more. I'm not in the union and neither are the majority of people I work with so any work to rule/strike etc doesn't apply to us other than the fact we will have to pass the picket. I think that people forget that the unions don't speak for everyone in the PS. I don't see strikes happening because people can't afford to loose the pay. I imagine the work to rule will apply to job descriptions and doing the work of people who have been let go. E.g there are a lot of people on contracts that were ended, their work is being shared out. The union (where I work) initially sent a directive telling people not to do the additional work in cases where contracts were ended. They then stepped back from that. I'd guess they'll start it again and will advise their members to their own job and nothing else (even if their own job is not enough to keep them busy).

In relation to the pay cuts, I do object. Of course the bill for the PS has to come down but I don't believe pay cuts should have been the starting point. The reason I object is because there is no sign of any sort of reform. We keep hearing about it but nothing is being done. I see money being wasted left right and centre. The management structures are a disgrace, theres no accountability and in my experience, the management are the biggest problem. Many people at management level just do not know how to do their jobs and have no concept of the real world. There is no such thing as a 'budget', its a random figure, if i overspend i'll just get more. That sort of attitude. I work hard for my money and I object to my pay being cut when I see the amount of wastage around me. If the PS had cut costs, slimmed down on non essential expenditure, general common sense things, and still the country couldn't afford it then yes of course there should be pay cuts. But i see new (non essential) projects being approved, money going on consultants for absolutely no reason, newspapers are still delivered to senior managers in the mornings, tea, coffee and biscuits for every single meeting in the building etc etc. Some of them are small things, some of them aren't. There has been no effort to address the 'dead wood' issue and people are taking the pi** all over the place. They should have been the first things to go in any cost cutting exercise. Having said that, i'm not going to run out and join the union, i won't be on a work to rule and i'll pass the picket if/when the time comes.

GalwayITtrainer

I advise you to put your energies into knuckling down and doing your job and less talk of work to rule and strikes. If any form of action happens now then the government will have the full support of the majority of taxpayers to totally clean house in the PS.

Oh in case you missed it in a l lot of cases private sector wages and jobs have already been cut.


Oh try to be less angry, maybe take up yoga. As I said already you are being played by the Government, engaging in a phoney war with your fellow workers. Anger and revenge are very destructive emotion.

quad_red

GalwayITtrainer wrote: »

I just have to reply to the above uninformed ravings about the public sector from EMBITTERED

* taxi drivers
* unemployed ex-plumbers, carpenters, builders, solicitors, etc,
* various bitter private sector workers.

And other uninformed nutters, typical types who regularly do Joe Duffy's job for him by calling up his show and ranting incoherently.

To be fair - the only one who sounds bitter here is you. I think people are speaking quite coherently.

GalwayITtrainer wrote: »

If the public sector is such an oasis of privilege why did you not take your chance to join it in recent years! Come on answer that ye brave souls. No ye took your chances in the private sector, so face the consequences, shut up and SUCK IT UP.

Listen - there isn't some magic pot of gold that people are fighting over. Not some magic money pit that the public sector can sit on which is 'theirs and no one elses'. Your employer is borrowing half a billion a week to pay your wages. We the Irish people are borrowing half a billion euro a week. We are passing half a billion a week of debt onto our children.

GalwayITtrainer wrote: »

Get your facts right: there is no homogenous "Public Sector". For example, in the private sector would you compare the likes of an international chain such as HMV with the local record store in a small town?
Just like in the private sector, there are thousands of low paid temporary contract public sector workers being laid off at present.

What's your point? The 'public sector' is considered to be an entity because of it's policy of collective bargaining, it's unified intransigence in accepting reforms and change etc. The unions have staunchly contributed to a situation where gross inefficiency is endemic in many sectors of the service. To be fair - it's also present in senior management. But in the end, the taxpayer still foots the bill for this ****.

And you should bear in mind that most private sector workers (who make up the majority of workers in the this country and pay the majority of taxes) are modestly paid and have terms and conditions that pale in comparison with workers in the wider public sector.

GalwayITtrainer wrote: »

In this budget people earning €30000 have had an unfair and disproportionate cut to their wages, while top earners such as Hospital Consultants who could afford to give much more have got off very lightly.

Couldn't agree more that hospital consultants etc are grossly overpaid. It's obscence that a country in our level of economic disarray should be paying anybody more than 100k.

old boy

gandalf wrote: »

No apparently that must be normal service

how can this be called public service, this is a public discrace, 6 months and still waiting, if this was the private sector heads would have rolled, no they are cosseted in their own imaginary world of injustice.

gandalf

GalwayITtrainer wrote: »

Oh try to be less angry, maybe take up yoga. As I said already you are being played by the Government, engaging in a phoney war with your fellow workers. Anger and revenge are very destructive emotion.

Oh the Government have not played me. I have enough experience in dealing with the PS from a business point of view to realise that it has needed change for a large number of years. I also know there are some excellent people working for the PS who are being held back by people who won't embrace change and whose only mission is to take a wage and as much else that they can extract from the system for the minimum amount of return. There are people in the private sector like these but in most cases they get found out and are removed.

I have had dealings with the local council from a personal point of view that has had me scratching my head afterwards as to why they even pretent to be customer facing, is there no pride at all in what they are supposed to be delivering?

I do have a lot of respect for the Frontline workers in the Health Service, they do a very difficult job and on the whole they do it well. Especially after having dealings with the Management as I have in HSE who provide pathetic backup to those who are delivering the services.

You see most of us have formed opinions from our interactions with the PS and not from what is written in the papers or spews from Government spindoctors. I suggest you digest this and don't be so quick to accuse people of being "nutters" or worse.

funnyname

Why are the PS unions talking about strikes?

What they proposed was effectively a pay cut of 5%, the Govenment cut the PS by that amount so why do they feel the need to strike?

onedoubleo

funnyname wrote: »

Why are the PS unions talking about strikes?

What they proposed was effectively a pay cut of 5%, the Govenment cut the PS by that amount so why do they feel the need to strike?

Gota keep those Prime Time appearences up, god forbid people forget about them

freewheeler

gandalf wrote: »

Well hopefully the government call their bluff. Leave em strike even if they are out for a few weeks. Break the unions and then push through on efficiency , cull the dead wood and install proper modern management structures that actually turn the PS back into a service for the taxpayer.

Dream on...as unfortunately the country is being run by a FOREST of dead wood who caused this mess in the first place..a fact that some seem to have forgotten...

danman

A small question for all the Union members on here.

Do the union beards cut their over inflated salaries in solidarity with their members?
Would they have taken a 5% cut with the rest of you if the 12 days of Christmas scheme had worked?
Just a thought.

Sweet, hope this means there'll be loads of scab work going for those of us who'd chop our right arm off to be getting 25k+ a year for VERY simple office work.



RE: You could have applied for a PS job.... I've never heard of a PubS job that went advertised and not filled. Have you? In fact, I know that any PubS job I ever applied for always had a load of applicants. When I did Summer work in college etc there was always a load of people trying to get in. The money was sweet. The first summer I earned 390, second I earned about 420 and the third I earned about 450 P/W.
And all I was doing the same work as everyone else in the office - all I remember thinking is this is an awful lot of money for the work being done.
I worked alot harder when I was working in retail, I'll tell you that much.


Oh, and I can also back up the guys story that it was FULL of people who did absolutely nothing all day and were very vocal whenever any changes to that regime were threatened.

BC

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

RE: You could have applied for a PS job.... I've never heard of a PubS job that went advertised and not filled. Have you?

Yep. I've been on the interview panel for 2 jobs that we could not fill. They are still empty and so now will probably never be filled. They were programming jobs and we just didn't get anyone qualified. We ended up hiring contractors on short term contracts instead. Its more expensive if you have to do it regularly and it means the knowledge generally walks out the door with the contractor and you have to keep getting them back. I have also seen the other side though where people have been hired because they were the best of a bad lot which is obviously a stupid thing to do. It possibly depends on the area though. Admin jobs usually have plenty of applicants.

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Oh, and I can also back up the guys story that it was FULL of people who did absolutely nothing all day and were very vocal whenever any changes to that regime were threatened.

I think anyone who has ever worked in the PS even for a short time can back this up!!

paraiceen

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

The sustained campaign against public sector workers is based on the fact that cuts are either going to have to come from social welfare or from public sector pay. Considering the generous pay and conditions that public sector workers enoy, the decision is a no brainer.

Is it because of these generous pay and conditions that you and the majority of the posters here, were flocking to public sector employment during the last 12 years?

Ginger Nut

Will ye all give it up and leave us PS workers alone. Where were ye all a few years ago when the Private sector - especially those in the building sector were getting huge bonus for sales on overpriced boxes. Where are all ye cribbers when the banks made billions and gave it to the property developers who lost it all when the "bum" fell out of the market. These same developers are now selling these houses for many thousands less and still making a profit. Also I know for a fact one bank got a pay rise in October -I lost 10.5% of my salary last year between Pension Levy 7.5%, Income levy 2% and PRSI levy 1%. Now I face another pay loss which equates to €43 per week gross. Shortly I will not be able to afford to go to work - so give me a break and will ye all get over yerselves!!!