Wrong to insist that people on JSA accept a job offer - Begg

Stark

http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/1210/budget.html

He said that anyone, of any age, on a jobseekers allowance who was offered a job would have to take it or have their benefits reduced.
He said this would trigger a scramble for jobs at the lower end of the labour market between those with jobs and those on welfare.
He said it would achieve a race to the bottom, and give an enormous advantage to employers in bringing down wages.

You couldn't make this sort of crap up. Does he not know that it has always been a condition of jobseeker's benefit/allowance that you be actively seeking work and by law are supposed to lose your benefits altogether if you turn down a job offer? The clue is in the name. Yet more evidence that the union leaders are living in a cuckoo land of entitlement, far from reality.

amacachi

Stark wrote: »

Does he not know that it has always been a condition of jobseeker's benefit/allowance that you be actively seeking work and by law are supposed to lose your benefits altogether if you turn down a job offer?

How would he, not like it's something he ever thought he'd need to worry about.

Rujib1

amacachi wrote: »

How would he, not like it's something he ever thought he'd need to worry about.

He and a few other beards might be looking for jobs in the not too distant future, when Biffo and Garlic are finished wiping their feet on them.
Sad day for them when Bertie copped it.

Padraig Mor

Not often I agree with Begg but I think it's perfectly fair to allow those on JSA to refuse a job offer.

Well, as long as we refuse to pay a single penny to the scrounging, whinging *****!

PeakOutput

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Well, as long as we refuse to pay a single penny to the scrounging, whinging *****!

thats not what he is saying so obviously you dont agree with him

Padraig Mor

PeakOutput wrote: »

thats not what he is saying so obviously you dont agree with him

Might want to turn on the ol' sarcasm meter there....

dvpower

He said that anyone, of any age, on a jobseekers allowance who was offered a job would have to take it or have their benefits reduced.
He said this would trigger a scramble for jobs at the lower end of the labour market between those with jobs and those on welfare.
He said it would achieve a race to the bottom, and give an enormous advantage to employers in bringing down wages.

Only a union leader would think this is a bad thing.

Noelisgod

I wouldn't worry about it too much - unless you are going through FAS how would the govt know you even had a job interview let alone a job offer?? And even for people using FAS they could always mess up accidently on purpose so they dont get an offer. Good tip is to stare directly at the person interviewing you the whole time with a blank look on your face - they'll think your a nutter and wont offer you a job for love nor money.

frman

Correct me if I am wrong.

David Begg is a Union representative paid to represent the views and defend the rights of his members.


WTF has he got to do with people who are claiming JSA ??


This is one of the many problems with the Unions in Ireland today.
They are far too involved in economic policies that are no business of theirs.


Smash them I say.

P. Breathnach

Where did Begg say that it was wrong to insist that people on JSA accept a job offer? What he did was to point out what he saw as the consequences of doing so.

Diarmuid

How can it be a race to the bottom, if you are going from JSA to even minimum wage? If JSA isn't the bottom then it should be cut.

Jessibelle

Can I ask what the implications are if the job offered gives less income than the JSA but is carried out over 4 days so therefore the extra day's allowance can't be claimed for? I'm aware of a few people who have turned down work because they were only guarenteed 3 hours a day at minimum wage over 4 days, which at the time, was not ecconomically viable. They have since gone on to full time work, but if they hadn't, what recourse, if any, should they have had?

Kensington

What will they come out with next? The bearded bunch should really take heed of their own advice:
"back off and keep their mouths shut"

Liam79

why would you do an interview for a job you dont want....????? Or is it mandatory to jo a certain amt of interviews to keep receiving JSA?

Stark

Liam79 wrote: »

Or is it mandatory to jo a certain amt of interviews to keep receiving JSA?

Yes. Not that it's properly enforced.

dan_d

Can't we switch them off?there has to be an off button some where.

Liam79

what happens if you dont get called to interview?
My brother must have sent off 100 cv's and at least half of them for advertised positions and as far as i know he has been called for no more than 2 interviews...

Most places wont even aknowledge receipt of his application :mad:

Stark

Then you provide them with rejection letters or if you didn't receive rejection letters, a list of places that you sent CVs to. This information is all available on www.citizensinformation.ie and it should all have been explained to your brother when he was signing on.

Duiske

Stark wrote: »

Then you provide them with rejection letters or if you didn't receive rejection letters, a list of places that you sent CVs to. This information is all available on www.citizensinformation.ie and it should all have been explained to your brother when he was signing on.

I really don't see how this rule can be enforced

If someone is happy on the dole and has no intention of working all he/she has to do is send off a few cv's per year, and if they get rejection letters just show them to SW. If they don't get rejection letter, they just show a list of companies cv's were sent to. And, if they happen to get a letter saying they have been successful, they can just bin it !!

Unless we have something like the US system, where companies supply SW with a list of openings (normally unskilled / min wage) they have. SW then offer the jobs to people on welfare, and if they refuse to take the job they are cut off.

brianthebard

Diarmuid wrote: »

How can it be a race to the bottom, if you are going from JSA to even minimum wage? If JSA isn't the bottom then it should be cut.

Because it is not required that employers provide the minimum wage for everyone.

citizensinformation wrote:

The National Minimum Wage Act 2000 provides that the minimum wage rate for an experienced adult employee from 1 July 2007 is €8.65 an hour, (was €8.30). An experienced adult employee for the purposes of the National Minimum Wage Act is an employee who has an employment of any kind in any 2 years over the age of 18. (See also "Rates" section below).

source; http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/employment/employment-rights-and-conditions/pay-and-employment/pay_inc_min_wage

I'm pretty disappointed with the usual unthinking union bashing on boards (not you Diarmuid, I think your question was sincere).

While it has been fairly commonplace for employers to offer the minimum wage as a starting wage, it is not a requirement. Those who are underage or do not have enough experience do not have to be paid the minimum wage. Considering the sheer number of people on JSA/B right now there are bound to be thousands or tens of thousands of people who do not meet the requirement. Employers can if they wish play workers and unemployed off against each other in a variety of wages in order to pay the least wage possible. Given IBEC's dislike for the current minimum wage no one should be under the illusion that this is not a very serious and credible possibility.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

cupofbarrys

hi there,

this is my first post on boards, and this thread is the first one i saw about the unemployed, of which i am one. i have to get some things out of my head and into word format, maybe it will make me feel better, i dont know.

Im 24 and finished college last june, working hard all the way through my four degrees, including a masters in law. since june ive had 2 interviews, which were unsuccessful and recieved no feedback from, despite politely asking for it. never would have thought id be still on the bloody dole 6 months on.

my daily routine of endlessly applying for jobs on the laptop leaves me utterly spent. my eyes burn every day, and yes there are low points. almost every job requires 'experience', of which no graduate has, so you are hamstrung. last week i walked into over 30 shops and stores in dublin offering my cv for any part time work that might be needed in the run up to xmas. nothing. promptly shown the door almost every time. i'd stock boxes in a darkened cellar just so i can buy a few presents for my loving family who have had to put up with me constantly being irritable, inexorably sliding into a near constant state of negativity which is very hard to shift.

the new stipulaion that job seekers allowance will be reduced if people refuse job offers is utterly contemptible and meaningless. Because in case they havent noticed, i and many others have had sweet FA job offers and i dont see it changing soon. so im resigned to leaving in the new year, i have enough saved to buy a plane ticket out of here. i feel like spinning the model globe and just stopping my finger anywhere and going.

i am now ashamed to meet any of my friends and acquainteces and so avoid doing so. you can see the suspicious look in peoples eyes that they just dont believe that a guy who spends 6 years in college cant get any kind of a job. i know i am not the only one in this position, and im not asking for sympathy.

i just cant go on like this.

oscarBravo

cupofbarrys wrote: »

the new stipulaion that job seekers allowance will be reduced if people refuse job offers is utterly contemptible and meaningless. Because in case they havent noticed, i and many others have had sweet FA job offers and i dont see it changing soon.

I sympathise with your predicament, but I don't see the problem. Based on what you've said, you wouldn't refuse a job offer, so why does it matter that your JSA would be reduced if you did?

seclachi

cupofbarrys wrote: »

i am now ashamed to meet any of my friends and acquainteces and so avoid doing so. you can see the suspicious look in peoples eyes that they just dont believe that a guy who spends 6 years in college cant get any kind of a job. i know i am not the only one in this position, and im not asking for sympathy.

i just cant go on like this.

Its an accepted fact that graduates cant get jobs in many circles, I`m in a similar age group, and I got extremely lucky in getting my job, I have seen many of my friends who werent so lucky go through the same soulless grind.

The first jobs to go when this recession has hit were the ones that werent created yet, lots of company's that took on graduates by the boat load shut there doors, company`s that took placement students told them to get lost, graduate programs in general are disappearing.

Nobody could really give a rats ass about graduates though, the government havent brought out any schemes, and have made it even worse with the moratorium on new jobs. We`ll get the same brain drain that has plagued Ireland for generations, and if we get a boom certain sectors will be stifled once again by the fact there are no suitable people to be found.

All I can say is cheer up, your not in a bad position either, going abroad at this stage can be fantastic for your career, and when things pick up you may have a good position to get back here (I`m assume your childless & mortgageless here). Its a good age to travel too, most of my friends weren't too upset at having to go abroad for a while.

Dannyboy83

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Its because social welfare is too high.

Last year, a friend of my girlfriend had no job, while I had 2.
I did my best to organise a job for her where I was doing my 2nd job, paying a little above the minimum wage, which she refused.

Her reasoning:
A) By the time she deducted travel and food, she would be slightly better off on the dole.
It would impact on her social life.
C) It was below her.

Surprising attitude to someone like me who had 2 jobs for most of his working life & doesn't really know what 'social life' means. Even more frustrating, by the time my taxes etc. were deducted, I had worked November and December for free. Time I would have happily spent with my GF instead of paying it for her dole.
In the end, it was Polish girl who got it, and she was proud to have it.

Conclusion: Social welfare is too high. People have no incentive to get off their ass while the rest of us pay for them. Stop b1tching about foreigners taking your jobs if you're too lazy to take one when offered.

Bluetonic

It's hardly rocket science, if you don't want a job you won't get offered one.

As you were folks, no change here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O6bWb7oEuE

Dannyboy83

cupofbarrys wrote: »

hi there,

this is my first post on boards, and this thread is the first one i saw about the unemployed, of which i am one. i have to get some things out of my head and into word format, maybe it will make me feel better, i dont know.

Im 24 and finished college last june, working hard all the way through my four degrees, including a masters in law. since june ive had 2 interviews, which were unsuccessful and recieved no feedback from, despite politely asking for it. never would have thought id be still on the bloody dole 6 months on.

my daily routine of endlessly applying for jobs on the laptop leaves me utterly spent. my eyes burn every day, and yes there are low points. almost every job requires 'experience', of which no graduate has, so you are hamstrung. last week i walked into over 30 shops and stores in dublin offering my cv for any part time work that might be needed in the run up to xmas. nothing. promptly shown the door almost every time. i'd stock boxes in a darkened cellar just so i can buy a few presents for my loving family who have had to put up with me constantly being irritable, inexorably sliding into a near constant state of negativity which is very hard to shift.

the new stipulaion that job seekers allowance will be reduced if people refuse job offers is utterly contemptible and meaningless. Because in case they havent noticed, i and many others have had sweet FA job offers and i dont see it changing soon. so im resigned to leaving in the new year, i have enough saved to buy a plane ticket out of here. i feel like spinning the model globe and just stopping my finger anywhere and going.

i am now ashamed to meet any of my friends and acquainteces and so avoid doing so. you can see the suspicious look in peoples eyes that they just dont believe that a guy who spends 6 years in college cant get any kind of a job. i know i am not the only one in this position, and im not asking for sympathy.

i just cant go on like this.

You're unlucky in that Law is one of the harder hit professions.
I have a relative working in a top firm, and he was telling me they had massive lay offs across the sector and most others took big pay deductions. And because law is a difficult one to get into, nearly all of the entry positions were taken up by skilled people or there were recruitment freezes.

A friend of mine went to London with an Irish law degree last year, can't tell you what conversion he had to do because I don't remember, but he did pick up a fairly good job and relatively quickly. (His parents did help him with the rent for a bit at the start tho)
Not exactly what he wanted, but it will suffice until things pick up.

I wouldn't stress too much about it, you have your qualifications and you're eager to work. Ireland might stay in a recession for a number of years, but the rest of the world won't.
I would say start looking in the UK and further afield.
Good Luck, I hope things will work out for you.