GhostBusters 2016 **SPOILERS FROM POST 1751 ONWARD**

ps3lover

Oh no! Comicbookgirl19 made another video about Ghostbusters. Claiming it's awful and that the only reason it's getting good reviews is because critics are afraid of being labelled mysoginists!
Wow, what a woman hating man baby! Out of all the Internet personalities, she seems to be the hardest on it! She must really hate women!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn_vAcFGTJU

Arne_Saknussem

ps3lover wrote: »

Oh no! Comicbookgirl19 made another video about Ghostbusters. Claiming it's awful and that the only reason it's getting good reviews is because critics are afraid of being labelled mysoginists!
Wow, what a woman hating man baby! Out of all the Internet personalities, she seems to be the hardest on it! She must really hate women!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn_vAcFGTJU

Internalized misogyny, a really hard case of.

constitutionus

ps3lover wrote: »

Oh no! Comicbookgirl19 made another video about Ghostbusters. Claiming it's awful and that the only reason it's getting good reviews is because critics are afraid of being labelled mysoginists!
Wow, what a woman hating man baby! Out of all the Internet personalities, she seems to be the hardest on it! She must really hate women!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn_vAcFGTJU

she's a good point about the profesional critics.

one of the most enjoyable aspects of the whole furor for me has been watching the lads that get paid to critique this film almost fall over themselves to say at worst its fine.

its not . its a terrible film

not by my standards, like i posted earler i liked it. but by theirs.

i liked "gods of egypt", i liked ID4 2, battleship, suckerpunch, skyline.

ALL films those lads wouldve ripped a new one off of and the new ghostbusters fall right into that catagory. the ONLY thing it has going for it is the chemistry between the four main characters and the jokes - many of which depend on the "controversy" thats blown up on it.

take that out and your left with a god AWFULL script, woeful villain , pedestrian effects (which is the real crime TBH as technologys come along way and that shouldve been on of the strengths of the film0) and itsTHE most horrifically edited film ive ever seen. thats somethin ive never noticed in a film before.

seriously is NO ONE amongst the professional set all that pushed about the dance scene that got set up and just dropped ? its bizarre . thers is LOADS wrong with this film on an "artistic" level.

like i said , i go to be entertained at the cinema, and ghostbusters did that - just like all the other films i named did too.

these lads are PAID to do a job and their criteria goes beyond "was it a laugh". i can only presume just like the vloger thinks its cause theyre scared

WoolyJumper

ps3lover wrote: »

Oh no! Comicbookgirl19 made another video about Ghostbusters. Claiming it's awful and that the only reason it's getting good reviews is because critics are afraid of being labelled mysoginists!
Wow, what a woman hating man baby! Out of all the Internet personalities, she seems to be the hardest on it! She must really hate women!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn_vAcFGTJU

One thing that got me was how she described a good movie as "pushing the boundaries, making me think about things, making me see the world in different ways making me expand my consciousness" Indeed I like all these things in a movie too. But original ghostbusters was none of this. It was just another throw away comedy. No surprise then that the remake was the same.

smash

WoolyJumper wrote: »

One thing that got me was how she described a good movie as "pushing the boundaries, making me think about things, making me see the world in different ways making me expand my consciousness" Indeed I like all these things in a movie too. But original ghostbusters was none of this. It was just another throw away comedy. No surprise then that the remake was the same.

Yes it was. It was all of these things for a generation of people who saw it in their childhood. I somehow don't think the new movie will have the same impact on today's youth because it's the same kind of thing that kids see in all movies... A bit of action, loads of CGI, unoriginal storyline. The reason the original is well loved is because despite what you think, it was all of those things for a lot of people.

S.M.B.

constitutionus wrote: »

she's a good point about the profesional critics.

one of the most enjoyable aspects of the whole furor for me has been watching the lads that get paid to critique this film almost fall over themselves to say at worst its fine.

its not . its a terrible film

not by my standards, like i posted earler i liked it. but by theirs.

i liked "gods of egypt", i liked ID4 2, battleship, suckerpunch, skyline.

ALL films those lads wouldve ripped a new one off of and the new ghostbusters fall right into that catagory. the ONLY thing it has going for it is the chemistry between the four main characters and the jokes - many of which depend on the "controversy" thats blown up on it.

take that out and your left with a god AWFULL script, woeful villain , pedestrian effects (which is the real crime TBH as technologys come along way and that shouldve been on of the strengths of the film0) and itsTHE most horrifically edited film ive ever seen. thats somethin ive never noticed in a film before.

seriously is NO ONE amongst the professional set all that pushed about the dance scene that got set up and just dropped ? its bizarre . thers is LOADS wrong with this film on an "artistic" level.

like i said , i go to be entertained at the cinema, and ghostbusters did that - just like all the other films i named did too.

these lads are PAID to do a job and their criteria goes beyond "was it a laugh". i can only presume just like the vloger thinks its cause theyre scared

Just did a very quick check on rotten tomatoes and went through a few random top critics that gave ghostubsters a favourable review. There seems to be a pretty strong correlation between a positive review for this movie and a positive review of Spy. So it looks like some critics like Paul Feigs brand of comedy (as do i) and are happy to judge the movie accordingly. But plenty of people here are happier to assume that critics have been bought or have some moral duty to give the movie a positive review. Some are even questioning fellow posters. Pretty embarrassing behaviour to be honest.

Fysh

constitutionus wrote: »

she's a good point about the profesional critics.

one of the most enjoyable aspects of the whole furor for me has been watching the lads that get paid to critique this film almost fall over themselves to say at worst its fine.

its not . its a terrible film

not by my standards, like i posted earler i liked it. but by theirs.

i liked "gods of egypt", i liked ID4 2, battleship, suckerpunch, skyline.

ALL films those lads wouldve ripped a new one off of and the new ghostbusters fall right into that catagory. the ONLY thing it has going for it is the chemistry between the four main characters and the jokes - many of which depend on the "controversy" thats blown up on it.

take that out and your left with a god AWFULL script, woeful villain , pedestrian effects (which is the real crime TBH as technologys come along way and that shouldve been on of the strengths of the film0) and itsTHE most horrifically edited film ive ever seen. thats somethin ive never noticed in a film before.

seriously is NO ONE amongst the professional set all that pushed about the dance scene that got set up and just dropped ? its bizarre . thers is LOADS wrong with this film on an "artistic" level.

like i said , i go to be entertained at the cinema, and ghostbusters did that - just like all the other films i named did too.

these lads are PAID to do a job and their criteria goes beyond "was it a laugh". i can only presume just like the vloger thinks its cause theyre scared

If you think that the kind of film writer who normally spends their time dissecting films like A Pigeon Sat On A Branch Contemplating Existence is daft enough to go and watch a film like Ghostbusters expecting the next revolution in cinematic technique, you're going to be disappointed

I don't particularly disagree with you on a lot of technical aspects in the film - but they didn't bother me enough to stop being entertained (a totally personal thing, obviously, and if someone else finds themselves bored enough to start picking holes in the film that's fair enough too). I'm sure professional critics are delighted when something like Fury Road crops up and combines fantastic genre spectacle with excellent technique, but those films are few and far between. So I'd expect at least a fair amount of them to approach it with more of a Roger Ebert-esque angle of "Will the audience this is aimed at enjoy it?". A lot of that enjoyment aspect is an absolutely personal thing that can be difficult to pin down, but it's still a legitimate aspect of how anyone responds to a film, I think.

I think Ghostbusters was superior to ID4 by a significant distance in that it had both chemistry and actual humour - ID4 was entertaining enough but for the most part had all the chemistry I'd expect from a flatpack bookshelf, and about as many jokes too

BMMachine

http://chicago.suntimes.com/entertainment/ghostbusters-hater-roeper-ive-had-a-dose-of-some-freaky-posts/


everyone is a d1ckhead shocker right there

e_e

https://twitter.com/Lesdoggg/status/755126377691680768
...and there are right now a load of guys with anime avatars calling Leslie Jones the n word on twitter.

Faith in humanity
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V

constitutionus

kevin smiths and marc bernardins take on it.

mark13

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUEKreyTkvA

e_e

e_e wrote:

...and there are right now a load of guys with anime avatars calling Leslie Jones the n word on twitter. .

..and there are right now a load of guys with anime avatars calling Leslie Jones the n word on twitter.

Faith in humanity | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | V

Those are the real fans, the ones we've hears so much about. Look at how passionate they are, it's shocking that the studio aren't going out of their way to appeal to such precious souls. It's disgusting that there's still such vile people out there and I hope that everyone one of them spends the rest of their lives watching as everything they love is taken from them

ps3lover

Deleted User wrote: »

Those are the real fans, the ones we've hears so much about. Look at how passionate they are, it's shocking that the studio aren't going out of their way to appeal to such precious souls. It's disgusting that there's still such vile people out there and I hope that everyone one of them spends the rest of their lives watching as everything they love is taken from them

Yet you don't seem to have a problem with Richard Roeper getting abuse telling him to kill himself and calling him a woman hater, all because he gave the movie a negitive review. Why do those people get a pass? Is this the kind of fan you are?
Or do you hope they spend the rest of their lives watching women getting lesser and lesser roles in movies due to their vile behavior?

johnny_ultimate

Anybody who sends or encourages abusive tweets to reviewers, actors or anyone at all really over a goddamn film has, quite simply, the emotional maturity of a particularly petulant eight year old. While perhaps there are scales to these things - the 'anime avatar army', egged on by a certain troll-in-chief, systematically sending racially abusive messages is sadly not surprising - abuse is not something that should be tolerated regardless of what side of the argument one falls on. Anybody who took the time to send an insulting tweet to Richard Roeper deserves no sympathy or respect whatsoever. All over a Ghostbusters movie.

It all feeds into the nastiness and divisiveness that has made reasonable discussion on many parts of the internet almost impossible.

ps3lover

ps3lover wrote:

Yet you don't seem to have a problem with Richard Roeper getting abuse telling him to kill himself and calling him a woman hater, all because he gave the movie a negitive review. Why do those people get a pass? Is this the kind of fan you are? Or do you hope they spend the rest of their lives watching women getting lesser and lesser roles in movies due to their vile behavior?

What in the love of fcuk are you on about, way to work your agenda. Didn't realise that by not commenting on something that it would mean that I agree with the abuse. Hang on, does that mean that you think that everyone who didn't comment on link about Roeper has no problem with it or thinks its okay? I never commented on the attack in Nice, does that mean that as far as you are concerned than that you think I'm OK with it?

orubiru

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Anybody who sends or encourages abusive tweets to reviewers, actors or anyone at all really over a goddamn film has, quite simply, the emotional maturity of a particularly petulant eight year old. While perhaps there are scales to these things - the 'anime avatar army', egged on by a certain troll-in-chief, systematically sending racially abusive messages is sadly not surprising - abuse is not something that should be tolerated regardless of what side of the argument one falls on. Anybody who took the time to send an insulting tweet to Richard Roeper deserves no sympathy or respect whatsoever. All over a Ghostbusters movie.

It all feeds into the nastiness and divisiveness that has made reasonable discussion on many parts of the internet almost impossible.

Yup. Things have gone WAY too far at this point.

Crazy that this is over a movie with ZERO controversial content.

orubiru

Deleted User wrote: »

Those are the real fans, the ones we've hears so much about. Look at how passionate they are, it's shocking that the studio aren't going out of their way to appeal to such precious souls. It's disgusting that there's still such vile people out there and I hope that everyone one of them spends the rest of their lives watching as everything they love is taken from them

Excuse me, you forgot to mention "parent's basement".

ps3lover

Deleted User wrote: »

What in the love of fcuk are you on about, way to work your agenda. Didn't realise that by not commenting on something that it would mean that I agree with the abuse. Hang on, does that mean that you think that everyone who didn't comment on link about Roeper has no problem with it or thinks its okay? I never commented on the attack in Nice, does that mean that as far as you are concerned than that you think I'm OK with it?

I'm sorry but you tried to make it sound like anyone who ever has an issue with any remake or fan property is the kind of person who would send out nasty and racist abuse to people on Twitter. You tarred everyone with the same brush, I was pointing out that by your logic, anyone who doesn't have an issue with it is the kind of person who would tell a critic to go kill themselves because their negitive review means they obviously hate women.
It's inexcusable to send anyone racist abuse over Twitter but I'd bet most of that is just from racists who really don't give a **** about Ghostbusters and are using all this as an excuse to spew hate, I'd say it's the same for the **** Roeper got.
Also Leslie Jones replying to the trolls isn't helping and is probably going to encourage more abuse, she's feeding the trolls.
There have been plenty of remakes I have had issue with but I have never ONCE sent a cast or crew member nasty messages over the internet because of it. Imagine an Irish film maker came to boards and started posting about their movie, even if they made the worst ****, you aren't going to attack them over it. It's just rude and disrespectful.
Yet you tar everyone who has an issue with a remake as a vile racist, that's where I have the problem.

ps3lover

ps3lover wrote: »

I'm sorry but you tried to make it sound like anyone who ever has an issue with any remake or fan property is the kind of person who would send out nasty and racist abuse to people on Twitter. You tarred everyone with the same brush, I was pointing out that by your logic, anyone who doesn't have an issue with it is the kind of person who would tell a critic to go kill themselves because their negitive review means they obviously hate women.
It's inexcusable to send anyone racist abuse over Twitter but I'd bet most of that is just from racists who really don't give a **** about Ghostbusters and are using all this as an excuse to spew hate, I'd say it's the same for the **** Roeper got.
Also Leslie Jones replying to the trolls isn't helping and is probably going to encourage more abuse, she's feeding the trolls.
There have been plenty of remakes I have had issue with but I have never ONCE sent a cast or crew member nasty messages over the internet because of it. Imagine an Irish film maker came to boards and started posting about their movie, even if they made the worst ****, you aren't going to attack them over it. It's just rude and disrespectful.
Yet you tar everyone who has an issue with a remake as a vile racist, that's where I have the problem.

Where did I tar everyone who has an issue with the remake a vile racist? Can you please point out where I said that or are you referring to when I called the guys attacking the actress as the real fans, the passionate ones? Nice that you were able to take my words and twist them to suit your own agenda.

Plenty of actors have gotten abuse for taking on a certain role, Michael B Jordan got a bit when he was cast in Fantastic Four when fans felt that casting a black actor as a character who was traditionally white was an attack on them. If this remake had been all male then there would most likely been a hell of a lot less fuss, the fact that they cast a black woman has a lot to do with the abuse being sent.

She's entitled to reply and stand up for herself and it's nice to see others are coming in to defend her. I hope that every single person who attacked her sees some form of punishment, lot of big men out there when they can hide behind they keyboards.

Most people welcome intelligent criticism and it would be a very boring world if everyone liked the same thing. I have no problem with a well thought out critical drubbing of the film, what I do have a problem with is the people writing it off without having watched it. How many of those who have attacked it in this thread have actually seen the film? The people attacking the critics for their negative reviews are just as back as the fans taking issue with the casting

super_furry

Like you say, it's the 'anime avatar army', the same creepy Gamergate and 8chan people who think they're on a some twisted moral crusade and talk endlessly about cuckold sex and "cultural marxism".

pixelburp

ps3lover wrote: »

[...]
Also Leslie Jones replying to the trolls isn't helping and is probably going to encourage more abuse, she's feeding the trolls.

Turning the other cheek works up to a point, but I've seen a few people suggest the above and frankly I'm a little fed up reading tacit or explicit victim blaming. As if its Jones fault for having the temerity to be upset about these attacks & wanting to do something. Sure it's just the internet etc. etc.. She absolutely should not be expected to 'just' ignore the vile abuse being sent her way. It comes across as more than a little glib to suggest someone just 'ignores the trolls' when the abuse is this personal and directed towards a personal account - it's no different to getting hate mail in the post or being physically confronted on the street and tbh legally, should be treated the same.

kunst nugget

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

It all feeds into the nastiness and divisiveness that has made reasonable discussion on many parts of the internet almost impossible.

I tried to understand the motivations of people posting on both sides of gamergate (which this is an extension of, imo) at the beginning and if they had genuine concerns but I gave up. It's a disgusting mess and anyone that involves themselves in campaigns to destroy someone's career and mental health because of an opposition (real or perceived) to their stance on identity politics today is an absolute stain on humanity.

RDM_83 again

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

It all feeds into the nastiness and divisiveness that has made reasonable discussion on many parts of the internet almost impossible.

While not condoning the trolls it does seem like that they have a point about some of the professional reviewing, like does anybody honestly think that the Guardian giving it 4 out of 5 is judging the film on its merits and interestingly one of its more feminist collumists has been fairly lukewarm about it.
Like most of what I have heard from real people that arent invested is that its OK and a bit stupid but fun
As a general wider social point these backlashes be they in gaming, fiction or movies generally IMO at least include some valid points before they go overboard with the extremism.
Take gamer gate developers and games reviewers probably shouldn't have the relationships they do.
Written Sci-fi, the sad puppies did have a point about ideological voting and cliques.
And with this film many people were predicting no matter what the film was like because of the casting choice it would get good reviews.

This doesn't excuse the abuse and personal targeting but does that invalidate all their points?

Mickeroo

RDM_83 again wrote: »

While not condoning the trolls it does seem like that they have a point about some of the professional reviewing, like does anybody honestly think that the Guardian giving it 4 out of 5 is judging the film on its merits and interestingly one of its more feminist collumists has been fairly lukewarm about it.
Like most of what I have heard from real people that arent invested is that its OK and a bit stupid but fun
As a general wider social point these backlashes be they in gaming, fiction or movies generally IMO at least include some valid points before they go overboard with the extremism.
Take gamer gate developers and games reviewers probably shouldn't have the relationships they do.
Written Sci-fi, the sad puppies did have a point about ideological voting and cliques.
And with this film many people were predicting no matter what the film was like because of the casting choice it would get good reviews.

This doesn't excuse the abuse and personal targeting but does that invalidate all their points?

People could have easily predicted good reviews due to the cast & director anyway who have a pretty good track record in that regard. It's actually the 2nd worst reviewed film Fieg has made as director going by RT.....

RDM_83 again

RDM_83 again wrote: »

While not condoning the trolls it does seem like that they have a point about some of the professional reviewing, like does anybody honestly think that the Guardian giving it 4 out of 5 is judging the film on its merits and interestingly one of its more feminist collumists has been fairly lukewarm about it.
Like most of what I have heard from real people that arent invested is that its OK and a bit stupid but fun
As a general wider social point these backlashes be they in gaming, fiction or movies generally IMO at least include some valid points before they go overboard with the extremism.
Take gamer gate developers and games reviewers probably shouldn't have the relationships they do.
Written Sci-fi, the sad puppies did have a point about ideological voting and cliques.
And with this film many people were predicting no matter what the film was like because of the casting choice it would get good reviews.

This doesn't excuse the abuse and personal targeting but does that invalidate all their points?

Maybe one reviewer liked the film and another didn't? Opinions can vary and it's what makes the world so interesting, it would be very boring if we all enjoyed the same things. I like plenty of films that others have hated and vice versa have loved some films that have been hated by the masses, doesn't mean that my enjoy or disliking of something was based on some agenda I had going in.

orubiru

RDM_83 again wrote: »

While not condoning the trolls it does seem like that they have a point about some of the professional reviewing, like does anybody honestly think that the Guardian giving it 4 out of 5 is judging the film on its merits and interestingly one of its more feminist collumists has been fairly lukewarm about it.
Like most of what I have heard from real people that arent invested is that its OK and a bit stupid but fun
As a general wider social point these backlashes be they in gaming, fiction or movies generally IMO at least include some valid points before they go overboard with the extremism.
Take gamer gate developers and games reviewers probably shouldn't have the relationships they do.
Written Sci-fi, the sad puppies did have a point about ideological voting and cliques.
And with this film many people were predicting no matter what the film was like because of the casting choice it would get good reviews.

This doesn't excuse the abuse and personal targeting but does that invalidate all their points?

It doesn't invalidate their points but it makes it all but impossible to stand beside them and say "I agree with their points".

The conversation itself becomes toxic. Unless you REALLY care about this stuff then there's no point in continuing.

With the Sad Puppies, for example, I absolutely agree with their point of view but do I really care THAT much who ends up winning a crummy book award? No. So once the conversation descends into accusations and hyberbole then I'm just gonna give up. It's not worth it.

With this movie, I think that a lot of people are treating it more kindly than they would if it didn't have the "drama" surrounding it but it's not like the film is sitting there with a 90+ rating on Metacritic. It's got a 60 rating and I don't feel like that's really a big deal.

Is a political bias tainting the reviews? Maybe. What is an appropriate response to that though? I honestly can't think of anything except for just calmly talking about it.

The thing about Gamergate etc is that, yeah, they probably are highlighting a genuine issue and they are actually exposing some mildly corrupt and dishonest individuals but the actions taken in response to that corruption is ridiculous.

The only really acceptable response here is calm and civilised discussion. Maybe some people end up having to answer some difficult questions in the media or in corporate boardrooms but that's about as far as it should go.

People who want to shut down that discussion? That's another issue on it own. The thing is that as long as there are these levels of extreme trolling there will be no space for the conversation to happen.

johnny_ultimate

ps3lover wrote: »

Also Leslie Jones replying to the trolls isn't helping and is probably going to encourage more abuse, she's feeding the trolls.

No. Just no. She needs to shout about this. Everybody with an interest in creating a healthy Internet needs to shout about this. They need to shout directly at Twitter to force them to shut down these vile jackasses and do everything in their power to try and stop it happening to more people. Every piece of evidence that this kind of horrific bull**** is still ongoing needs to be flagged and countered with genuine urgency. That a prominent comedian can be bullied off a popular social media platform is in no way, shape or form acceptable. Nor should anybody on the receiving end of such ugliness have to simply put up with it or shut up about it.

This isn't low level trolling, or mere personal abuse, and it sure as hell isnt a simple difference of opinion over a comedy film - this is despicable, organised hate speech (and it's particularly deplorable to see a few high-profile ringleaders sitting by and encouraging it), and needs to be condemned in the strongest possible way. Even if the people responsible - and I have to retain some hope they're a reasonably small group of people all-in-all - were just in it for 'the lulz', that's probably even more frightening. Leslie Jones was brave enough to actually show what is happening to her, and deserves only praise and support for doing so. The 'trolls' need to be mocked and disdained, but mostly they need to be silenced - and sadly drawing attention to them is pretty much a necessity to ensure those who can shut them up will listen. This isn't a free speech issue, incidentally - it's a basic common decency issue.

Arne_Saknussem

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

ps3lover wrote: »

Also Leslie Jones replying to the trolls isn't helping and is probably going to encourage more abuse, she's feeding the trolls.

No. Just no. She needs to shout about this. Everybody with an interest in creating a healthy Internet needs to shout about this. They need to shout directly at Twitter to force them to shut down these vile jackasses and do everything in their power to try and stop it happening to more people. Every piece of evidence that this kind of horrific bull**** is still ongoing needs to be flagged and countered with genuine urgency. That a prominent comedian can be bullied off a popular social media platform is in no way, shape or form acceptable. Nor should anybody on the receiving end of such ugliness have to simply put up with it or shut up about it.

This isn't low level trolling, or mere personal abuse, and it sure as hell isnt a simple difference of opinion over a comedy film - this is despicable, organised hate speech (and it's particularly deplorable to see a few high-profile ringleaders sitting by and encouraging it), and needs to be condemned in the strongest possible way. Even if the people responsible - and I have to retain some hope they're a reasonably small group of people all-in-all - were just in it for 'the lulz', that's probably even more frightening. Leslie Jones was brave enough to actually show what is happening to her, and deserves only praise and support for doing so. The 'trolls' need to be mocked and disdained, but mostly they need to be silenced - and sadly drawing attention to them is pretty much a necessity to ensure those who can shut them up will listen. This isn't a free speech issue, incidentally - it's a basic common decency issue.

Who are the high profile people encouraging it?

BMMachine

The Guardian giving it 4/5 is of absolutely no surprise

ps3lover

Sony deleting every comment on YouTube that contained constructive criticism or criticism that came from a female, while leaving all the sexist / racist comments didn't really help. It's clear they where trying to make it look like sexism / racism was the only reason people where hating on it.