Welfare cuts? What cuts?

phasers

thebman wrote: »

Try Dunnes, you know shop around!

Or buy online.

I know shopping online is cheaper, I just assumed the OP meant clothing prices in Ireland had fallen!

Dunnes clothes never fit right

Cadiz

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You're excused But please incorporate some compassion into your opinion.

You could be one of these free-loading dolies next year, wasting money on the house and your car etc. you had the nerve to purchase when you were working - try and bear that in mind.

ei.sdraob

Jimmyboss wrote: »

Have you any proof of this....if so, do the right thing!!!!!

confidential emails, papers from CRO few bits and bobs here

tho im not gonna do anything about it since it would cause alot of "collateral damage" sort of speak to good people who got duped, the cowboys will crash and burn eventually

best thing to do in this situation is to warn anyone involved to be careful of these people

this is only one example of bankruptcy (moral, ethical and financial) in companies i encountered, i dread to think theres more of this

Jimmyboss

ei.sdraob wrote: »

confidential emails, papers from CRO few bits and bobs here

tho im not gonna do anything about it since it would cause alot of "collateral damage" sort of speak to good people who got duped, the cowboys will crash and burn eventually

best thing to do in this situation is to warn anyone involved to be careful of these people

this is only one example of bankruptcy (moral, ethical and financial) in companies i encountered, i dread to think theres more of this

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

AlekSmart

Donegalfella, Every person pays tax in this country regardless of what position they are in!

Oddly enough gcgirl they DON`T !!

According to the Minister for Finance hisself...(`n he SHOULD know ?) 50% of the workforce pay NO tax.

This is after many years of succesive Ministers for Finance "protecting" the "Lower Paid" from the negative effects of their budgets.

This,unsurprisingly led to an ever decreasing number of ACTUAL taxpayers who ended up paying for everybody and everything whilst qualifying for almost none of the means tested benefits they were bankrolling.

We have an obsession with house ownership in this country if any one watched The Savage Eye the other night might get the gist but some people paid 360,000 for houses you might not have paid 200,000 now

Gcgirl is spot-on with the above comment,a trueism which if not rapidly tackled will leave us permanently fcuk`d.

Even now in the midst of the greatest property-driven economic collapse in our history,Government policy remains that of promoting universal Home Ownership....has nobody been paying attention ?

Nowhere in any of the Budgetary or NAMA calculations is there anything to indicate that a regulated,controlled and monitored Private Rental market offers so much more to the next generations than merely a roof over their heads.

The availability of such high-quality tenancy-protected rental units would allow people top divert spending into other area`s of their life,as most sensible Europeans have tended to do for....well...centuries,really

gcgirl

VAT is tax we pay tax on every thing ! Carbon tax car tax ect ect

Ginger83

Having read through the posts I can see some dont have much time or sympathy for people who have fallen on hard times.
Ok they made choices to buy the mansions and suv's to keep up with the jones' across the road but most are out of work through no fault of their own.

Having said that I do believe there is a comfortable standard of living from the social welfare system. We all see it, the people everyday in the pubs and bookmakers, the new cars,etc. I read in another post a family with 3 kids can have an income of 40k + without lifting a finger from one end of the week to the other. What about the people who have looked for help and been turned away-the self employed who paid people's wages and have had to shut up shop for various reasons.

No matter what the welfare payments are people will always find something wrong with them, there are jobs out there its just hard for people to give up what they have. I've heard 'oh,sure i'm better off on the dole'. There is a sort of tunnel vision for alot to compare the welfare payments to their previous basic 39hour working week or even now the 39 hour minimum wage week. Who set this figure in stone.

I've often had 3 jobs going at one time. Would it not be better to work a 60 hour week and bring home a decent wage than sit around and moan about whats being handed out.

Cadiz

AlekSmart wrote: »

This is after many years of succesive Ministers for Finance "protecting" the "Lower Paid" from the negative effects of their budgets.

They've done quite a good job protecting the highest earners from tax too - interesting detail on that here.

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:86kC-lYexgYJ:www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D126706+don+t+pay+income+tax&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

I like the way you put 'lower paid' in inverted commas, do you mean you think someone on minimum or basic industrial wage is only 'so-called lower paid'?

gcgirl

thebman wrote: »

Try Dunnes, you know shop around!

Or buy online.

Dunnes are far far dearer than penneys i would never go there! They are the irish m&s ! Things changed after ben dunne got the boot and margerat heffernan took over !

AlekSmart

A big chunk of people currently on the dole are recently unemployed. They would have bought their cars and houses before they became unemployed (and at a time that the prospect of becoming unemployed was remote).

I agree that the dole shouldn't (and doesn't) cover these items, but I do think there is a case for a higher rate for the recently unemployed, to help ease them into poverty or else to ease the pain a bit until they get a new job.

One of the continuing oddities about the current DSFA Jobseekers payments is how we arrived here.

Dvpower remarks upon the need for a tiered Unemployment payment to cover the "Sudden" period just following redundancy.

I often wonder what exactly became of the original notion of PAY RELATED Social Insurance (PRSI).

The very title of this explains its function,yet that appears to have been buried beneath a plethora of add-on "benefits" which were then paid to literally thousands of NON-Contributors.

The not unnatural result of this munificence was the eradication of the "Insurance" principle and its replacement with a form of nod and wink handout which now is being exposed for the folly it is.

One also needs to bear in mind the presence of the Statutory Redundancy payments,whose existance is also meant to act as a gap-filler funded by the State.

As somebody who interacts with unemployed and associated DSFA clients every day,I can say that the REAL impact of redundancy,particularly for those over 45 years of age does not hit until some 12 months have passed.
It is at this point that many such persons suddenly realize that the "Lump" has dwindled and that the reality of applying for a Means-Tested assistance payment now looms large.
This tends to be the point at which the Car or the Holiday suddenly becomes unaffordable and the permanence of the situation becomes an awful reality.

Also, in the 80's people got pulled into the civil service as a posh way of being on the dole, so you're not a million miles off...

And just to end on a high-note,along comes Dr Kamikazi with the above concise summation of the Charles J Haughey,Chrysler scheme,which I believe was the best example EVER of "An Irish solution to an Irish Problem" :rolleyes:

Idbatterim

The government should get a task force together of proven successful business leaders a few economists etc to prepare and implement a plan for growth! The problem now is we are experiencing the necessary cuts. But no one can see where any growth will come from! Alot of the state controlled costs, that are hindering growth and causing redundancies need to be addressed! The unions can hiss and make all the noise they want, but how many thousands of job losses have they caused over the years?! If they reckon they know so much about business, why dont they go out and set up their own?

AlekSmart

I've often had 3 jobs going at one time. Would it not be better to work a 60 hour week and bring home a decent wage than sit around and moan about whats being handed out.

Indeed t`would Ginger83,except that if you were doing this you would be breaking the Law !!!

Another oft forgotten aspect of our uncompetitiveness is the zeal with which our Government has embraced such twittery as the Working Time Directive,which as enshrined in Irish law limits YOU,the worker to a maximum of 48 hours a week averaged over 17 weeks.

Remember Ginger83,that IF you exceed that 48Hour average,YOU and your employer are jointly exposed to legal action by the Department of Enterprise,Trade and Employment which could result in a large fine AND a Jail sentance !!!!

AlekSmart

Cadiz asks....

I like the way you put 'lower paid' in inverted commas, do you mean you think someone on minimum or basic industrial wage is only 'so-called lower paid'?

The main reason for the IC`s is only to illustrate that even during the Great Boom we apparently quantified 50% of our workforce as lower-paid and absolved them from paying PAYE tax.

It is perhaps a wee bit "Irish" that even allowing for this huge Low-Paid sector,we managed to have a bit of an oul Property Purchase beanfeast.

Surely the Lower Paid did`nt use the money which could have been used to fund Public Services etc to fund the purchases of overvalued mass produced apartments and luxury townhouses...??

It`s all very mysterious really....one day we had money...next day we had none ??

Cadiz

AlekSmart wrote: »

Cadiz asks....

The main reason for the IC`s is only to illustrate that even during the Great Boom we apparently quantified 50% of our workforce as lower-paid and absolved them from paying PAYE tax.

Link please? This figure doesn't include the high earners who don't pay tax or pay very little, does it not?

dan719

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Well last week they had X, this week they have Y. Y<X and the cut is the difference between them. That is the only response this thread deserves TBH.

P. Breathnach

AlekSmart wrote: »

... According to the Minister for Finance hisself...(`n he SHOULD know ?) 50% of the workforce pay NO tax...

He didn't say that.

ParkRunner

Dr Kamikazi wrote: »

That's what people make in the civil service, they've been cut and now telling us the exact same thing, funny, isn't it?
Also, in the 80's people got pulled into the civil service as a posh way of being on the dole, so you're not a million miles off...

1,000 a week, I wish! The CSO said in 2008 the average wage in the civil service was 916 gross. Take about 33% approx off that at least to take account of income tax, prsi, and the pension contributions and now take another 6% approx off that from Budget 2010 and you are left with about an average take home pay of 583 in the civil service. Some of that is a pension contribution but it is a compulsory deduction.

thebman

gcgirl wrote: »

Dunnes are far far dearer than penneys i would never go there! They are the irish m&s ! Things changed after ben dunne got the boot and margerat heffernan took over !

It was an example of another store to price check in. Most people won't even check Dunnes because they assume they won't have nice clothes or will be more expensive.

I doubt they are always more expensive on things, it pays to shop around and then buy and not just go to the shop you always go to and buy which is what most people do. Most Irish people don't know how to live on a budget. They are used to just being able to afford things they want or get it on the credit card.

phasers wrote: »

I know shopping online is cheaper, I just assumed the OP meant clothing prices in Ireland had fallen!

Dunnes clothes never fit right

Sure they don't :pac:

aurelius79

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Really? That's strange. I seem to be paying the exact same for groceries as I did a year ago. The price of milk, sugar, coffee, cereals, etc. are all the same. The only difference to me now is that I have to buy nothing but 2 for 1 or 50% off deals. My diet is f**ked to be honest.

I live in a rural town with no transport. The only shop is an overpriced Centra. I could take the bus into Sligo but that costs 11 euros for a day return and hauling a week's worth of groceries across town isn't much fun.

thebman

aurelius79 wrote: »

Really? That's strange. I seem to be paying the exact same for groceries as I did a year ago. The price of milk, sugar, coffee, cereals, etc. are all the same. The only difference to me now is that I have to buy nothing but 2 for 1 or 50% off deals. My diet is f**ked to be honest.

I live in a rural town with no transport. The only shop is an overpriced Centra. I could take the bus into Sligo but that costs 11 euros for a day return and hauling a week's worth of groceries across town isn't much fun.

Tesco do deliveries, it cost a little for delivery but worth checking if you can make the difference on savings on groceries.

Tesco delivery price depends on the day but it was 4 euro for cheapest day when I tried it out just now for a 10 euro basket.

Cadiz

thebman wrote: »

Tesco do deliveries, it cost a little for delivery but worth checking if you can make the difference on savings on groceries.

Tesco delivery price depends on the day but it was 4 euro for cheapest day when I tried it out just now for a 10 euro basket.

Tesco don't deliver everywhere - rural areas particularly, and the cheap delivery only applies to certain times. It's more typically €8 - not cheap for a basket of groceries. Anyway very few of us can still afford to shop in Tesco.

thebman

Cadiz wrote: »

Tesco don't deliver everywhere - rural areas particularly, and the cheap delivery only applies to certain times. It's more typically €8 - not cheap for a basket of groceries. Anyway very few of us can still afford to shop in Tesco.

As opposed to Centra??????

You wouldn't do it for a basket, you'd have to be buying at least a full weeks groceries. The dole is a massive amount if your single TBH, you could easily shop in any shop for food and have spare money left over doing it if you were single.

Either that or ask a neighbour when they are going to Tesco and ask can you get a lift. Not something anyone would want to do but if you need to save the money, do it.

aurelius79

thebman wrote: »

Tesco do deliveries, it cost a little for delivery but worth checking if you can make the difference on savings on groceries.

Tesco delivery price depends on the day but it was 4 euro for cheapest day when I tried it out just now for a 10 euro basket.

That's not the point I was making. My point was that this claim that cost of living is going down is a lie.

My rent would still be the same as it was last year but I decided to just pay my landlord 10 euros less a week. I now ignore all his calls (about 5 per week) and don't answer my door if I don't know who it is.

Cadiz

thebman wrote: »

As opposed to Centra??????

You wouldn't do it for a basket, you'd have to be buying at least a full weeks groceries. The dole is a massive amount if your single TBH, you could easily shop in any shop for food and have spare money left over doing it if you were single.

Either that or ask a neighbour when they are going to Tesco and ask can you get a lift. Not something anyone would want to do but if you need to save the money, do it.

€8 of €40 weekly shop = 20%. And you need to have the internet.

You've had the experience of living on this massive amount yourself, have you?

doc_17

I honestly think that there are too many righteous B*****ks in this country that get "outraged" when we cut a service that affects the poor. Lets not forget that some of these poor are just people who could not be bothered working because they know the rest of us will pick up the tab. Here's a novel idea. Social welfare should be proportional to how muchyou have contributed down the years so that if you have been unlucky in these tough times then we will help you through it. However, if you were claiming dole in 2004 -2006 then cut it down to the UK rate. If you didn't have a job at that time then it's clear you didn't want one. Why should you get the same as someone who worked all their life?

aurelius79

thebman wrote: »

As opposed to Centra??????

You wouldn't do it for a basket, you'd have to be buying at least a full weeks groceries. The dole is a massive amount if your single TBH, you could easily shop in any shop for food and have spare money left over doing it if you were single.

Either that or ask a neighbour when they are going to Tesco and ask can you get a lift. Not something anyone would want to do but if you need to save the money, do it.

I'm paying 70 euros of rent a week out of my dole because I can't get rent allowance. My landlord refuses to sign the papers. I plan on moving out soon but not many places take animals anymore and I'm not getting rid of my pets.

aurelius79

doc_17 wrote: »

I honestly think that there are too many righteous B*****ks in this country that get "outraged" when we cut a service that affects the poor. Lets not forget that some of these poor are just people who could not be bothered working because they know the rest of us will pick up the tab. Here's a novel idea. Social welfare should be proportional to how muchyou have contributed down the years so that if you have been unlucky in these tough times then we will help you through it. However, if you were claiming dole in 2004 -2006 then cut it down to the UK rate. If you didn't have a job at that time then it's clear you didn't want one. Why should you get the same as someone who worked all their life?

What about the disabled? They and their carers got cuts in the budget. Not everyone is able to work and carers actually save the State money.

What about the hundreds of mental patients who have been turned out into the streets and homeless shelters because of facility closures around the country?

Try thinking about someone other than yourself for once. Not everyone can afford to be as arrogant and self-righteous as you.

kumate_champ07

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

and why is that? is it in the rule book somewhere?

social welfare pays for rent allowance, rent allowance is actually alot more expensive than mortgage repayments.

kumate_champ07

Cadiz wrote: »

€8 of €40 weekly shop = 20%. And you need to have the internet.

You've had the experience of living on this massive amount yourself, have you?

why cut food expenses? can you not cut other things as well?




there are many food and household items that have been reduced by more than 25%, some even by 50%, this is what Ive seen in tesco.

brand names are one of the biggest reasons some people waste so much money.

the quality is the same, just the recipe is slightly different than the one you may be use to.

Cadiz

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

why cut food expenses? can you not cut other things as well?




there are many food and household items that have been reduced by more than 25%, some even by 50%, this is what Ive seen in tesco.

brand names are one of the biggest reasons some people waste so much money.

the quality is the same, just the recipe is slightly different than the one you may be use to.

LOL thanks for the tips! Something tells me I've been economising longer than you have.

A tip for you: don't do your shop at Tesco or Dunnes at all - the 25% and 50% reductions usually come with a compromise on quality. Lidl and Aldi = better quality for price and an instant 50% reduction on all your groceries, not just shady 'special' offers.

I'm not on the dole right now but I'm coasting close to it. I've cut all my expenses, by the way, to the bone - not just food. I got rid of my car, got rid of NTL, I cut my own hair, I don't buy clothes.

It's a nightmare living on the little I have now, so I'm dreading the possibility having no choice but to sign on. People who pontificate about it being a massive amount haven't a clue.