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Welfare cuts? What cuts?

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    #92
    gerry28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 438 ✭✭gerry28


    aurelius79 wrote: »
    I'm paying 70 euros of rent a week out of my dole because I can't get rent allowance. My landlord refuses to sign the papers. I plan on moving out soon but not many places take animals anymore and I'm not getting rid of my pets.

    I would suspect the authorities don't know your landlord is renting the house.


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    #93
    aurelius79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 395 ✭✭aurelius79


    gerry28 wrote: »
    I would suspect the authorities don't know your landlord is renting the house.

    I would suspect the authorities are unaware of a large percentage of tenancies that go unclaimed every year. The landlords of this country are as crooked as the banks and the politicians. I suspect in some cases they are one in the same.


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    #94
    doc_17
    Registered Users Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭doc_17


    aurelius79 wrote: »
    What about the disabled? They and their carers got cuts in the budget. Not everyone is able to work and carers actually save the State money.

    What about the hundreds of mental patients who have been turned out into the streets and homeless shelters because of facility closures around the country?

    Try thinking about someone other than yourself for once. Not everyone can afford to be as arrogant and self-righteous as you.

    I'm not making a case for cutting carers and the disabled. I'm making a case for cutting the lazy people who just sponge of the state. It's because of these people that carers and disbled have been cut, because there's not enough to go round. those who never worked and never will get of a wee bit too easy. What would you do with these people?


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    #95
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    Cadiz wrote: »
    LOL thanks for the tips! Something tells me I've been economising longer than you have.

    A tip for you: don't do your shop at Tesco or Dunnes at all - the 25% and 50% reductions usually come with a compromise on quality. Lidl and Aldi = better quality for price and an instant 50% reduction on all your groceries, not just shady 'special' offers.

    well that 'something' is wrong. I dont shop in the one place, I shop in aldi,tesco,super valu,2euro store and wherever I see a special offer or anything thats good value. I also buy things that are going out of date, can save 75% on good cheeses. if theres a load of cheese half price in tesco come back the next day and the price is halved again for whatever is left, the next day they are taken off the shelves.

    I dont compromise on quality, malt wheats and oat crunch with strawberry cereal(same ratio of strawberries) are the same price in tesco and aldi and taste the same

    I not only buy with price in mind I also read the ingredients of everything I buy.

    'the curry leaf- rogan josh' is around 80c a jar in tesco, has no artifical anything in it and when used properly tastes amazing. just add chicken and basmati rice(very cheap and healthy) and you have a nice meal for 3

    I wouldnt buy anything if it didnt taste good/wasnt good quality

    *I'll also add that Ive been cooking and baking since the age of 14


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    #96
    Cadiz
    Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭Cadiz


    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    well that 'something' is wrong.

    I dont compromise on quality, malt wheats and oat crunch with strawberry cereal(same ratio of strawberries) are the same price in tesco and aldi and taste the same

    Bully for you - that's certainly not my experience and it's not borne out by comparing the ingredient lists on similar products.

    Anyway, this is the digression, the point is: you can do your upmost to economise and still find living on dole-level money very tough.


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    #97
    aurelius79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 395 ✭✭aurelius79


    doc_17 wrote: »
    I'm not making a case for cutting carers and the disabled. I'm making a case for cutting the lazy people who just sponge of the state. It's because of these people that carers and disbled have been cut, because there's not enough to go round. those who never worked and never will get of a wee bit too easy. What would you do with these people?

    Actually, no. It's because of Brian Lenihan that the disabled and carers got cut and his own Office of the Minister for Finance got an 11 million increase in spending next year.

    Don't blame the people who've just got used to a welfare state. Social welfare pays better than a minimum wage 40 hour job and they pay just as much VAT as a working person. Where's the incentive?

    By the way, let's not pretend that every bit of money that goes to social welfare recipients doesn't go right back into the economy through rents, goods purchased etc. You think people on the dole are saving to buy a new car or a house?


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    #98
    Sandvich
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭Sandvich


    Hogzy wrote: »
    Most people just wanna fight with the government because you could never be happy with a decision taken by FF.TBH i was expecting ALOT worse

    If I'm to be honest, you're a complete and utter sucker. It was a horrible budget and your reasoning is terrible. People are unhappy with FF's decisions because they've nearly always been rubbish but now everyone's OH IT COULD HAVE BEEN WORSE.
    Social welfare payments are not supposed to cover your mortgage and car loan.

    It doesn't matter a toss what social welfare is normally "Meant" to be for, the fact is that currently it is a cash injection back into a failing economy and yes, it does make help people out of a job pay off debts. People can't help the fact that they're losing jobs left and right. Because of that, it's irrelevant if the cost of living has fallen(and in my experience it has not fallen to the degree you claim it is on average) as it's effectively increased for some.
    waraf wrote: »
    Good lord that is the most simplistic, myopic, unsympathetic view of the dole.

    Sums up nearly every post I've seen donegalfella make to be honest... I hate these tough guy right wingers who put their economic "Beliefs" before actual human wellbeing.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    Surviving on the dole is easy. Paying your mortgage, car loan, credit card debt, etc., is not easy on the dole, I'll admit—but social welfare is not designed to provide mortgage/loan payment protection. As Stark says, there's something wrong when the dole can help you buy a house.

    There's something wrong with the government if they allow people to be in serious debt just because some eejit with a hard knock life attitude thinks the welfare is too much when money is scarce enough as is, and personal debt is much greater than the national debt.

    The alternative is that the dole doesn't help people keep up payments, and they end up going. To me you're just proving further and further your school of thought does not care about human beings or practicality, just ideals.


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    #99
    ghost_ie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 545 ✭✭✭ghost_ie


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Could you really? By the time you take your NTL/Sky package, heating, electricity, clothing, rent/mortgage, petrol and food into account?


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    #100
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,995 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    aurelius79 wrote: »
    Really? That's strange. I seem to be paying the exact same for groceries as I did a year ago. The price of milk, sugar, coffee, cereals, etc. are all the same. The only difference to me now is that I have to buy nothing but 2 for 1 or 50% off deals. My diet is f**ked to be honest.

    I live in a rural town with no transport. The only shop is an overpriced Centra. I could take the bus into Sligo but that costs 11 euros for a day return and hauling a week's worth of groceries across town isn't much fun.

    You'd think with the entire social welfare population of Ireland living in your town, that they'd have a second shop.
    aurelius79 wrote:
    Actually, no. It's because of Brian Lenihan that the disabled and carers got cut and his own Office of the Minister for Finance got an 11 million increase in spending next year.

    Don't blame the people who've just got used to a welfare state. Social welfare pays better than a minimum wage 40 hour job and they pay just as much VAT as a working person. Where's the incentive?

    And yet few people seem to have a problem with people on social welfare getting more than people working.
    aurelius79 wrote:
    By the way, let's not pretend that every bit of money that goes to social welfare recipients doesn't go right back into the economy through rents, goods purchased etc. You think people on the dole are saving to buy a new car or a house?

    Give me some of your money then. It'll all end up back in the economy eventually so it's not like you're losing anything.


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    #101
    Rev. BlueJeans
    Closed Accounts Posts: 600 ✭✭✭Rev. BlueJeans


    More flippin' whinging.

    This thread has become something of an advice column. Seriously, can you not get the bus once a week, and get your essentials? Not that hard, surely?

    Or should we just throw more money at it, sure us working folk have loads.


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    #102
    Cadiz
    Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭Cadiz


    Rev. BlueJeans wrote: »
    More flippin' whinging.

    And yet here you are, whinging yourself! :rolleyes:


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    #103
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    aurelius79 wrote: »
    That's not the point I was making. My point was that this claim that cost of living is going down is a lie.

    It isn't though, my shopping is a lot cheaper than it was last year.
    My rent would still be the same as it was last year but I decided to just pay my landlord 10 euros less a week. I now ignore all his calls (about 5 per week) and don't answer my door if I don't know who it is.

    Well that is just irresponsible TBH. You should have spoken to him about it. Most landlords are reasonable ATM as there are so many empty houses and people looking to rent. My landlord contacted me coming up to lease end to offer to lower the rent.

    Sounds like you need to move TBH.
    Cadiz wrote: »
    €8 of €40 weekly shop = 20%. And you need to have the internet.

    You've had the experience of living on this massive amount yourself, have you?

    I don't have to disclose my personal circumstances to you but I have lived on much less than the dole for months because I had no choice. For a single person, the dole is way too high.
    ghost_ie wrote: »
    Could you really? By the time you take your NTL/Sky package, heating, electricity, clothing, rent/mortgage, petrol and food into account?

    You don't need NTL/Sky, heating/electricity have both come down in price by a fair bit. Mortgage is something you should have savings to pay for as you can't rely on the dole to pay it for you. I took my car off the road to save money as I live in a town (I'm perfectly aware someone in a rural area can't do this).


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    #104
    Rev. BlueJeans
    Closed Accounts Posts: 600 ✭✭✭Rev. BlueJeans


    Cadiz wrote: »
    And yet here you are, whinging yourself! :rolleyes:

    No doubt you think there's a bottomless pit of money there too?


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    #105
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    aurelius79 wrote: »
    That's not the point I was making. My point was that this claim that cost of living is going down is a lie.

    My rent would still be the same as it was last year but I decided to just pay my landlord 10 euros less a week. I now ignore all his calls (about 5 per week) and don't answer my door if I don't know who it is.

    You need to check out other places in your local area.
    You're hesitant to answer the door? Seems like you're a prisoner in your own house. You do realize your landlord can't enter your house without permission unless it's an emergency.
    If they want to do repairs they have to make an appointment with you.

    10 euros less a week isn't a huge reduction, shop around and find somewhere better if you can.
    And ask your landlord for their PPS number so you can claim your rent relief which is your entitlement! If they fob you off, tell them it's ok as you'll just give their name and address to Revenue instead ;)
    But to fair to your landlord you don't just decide on a rent yourself and ignore their calls. At least talk to them and reach an agreement.


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    #106
    whatdoicare
    Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭whatdoicare


    Forget shopping in Dunnes or Tesco that's for rich people, Aldi/Lidl and your local Asian shop is the way to go. I learnt how to shop on an insanely tight budget from my Asian friend loooooong before the durty recession word was ever mentioned- those huge bags of rice and noodle boxes of fifty are great value and last for ages (make sure you store it all properly or it'll go mouldy) Get yr veggies from aldi/lidl and buy the slabs of eggs and tofu blocks in the Asian store.
    Pennies for the rare clothes purchase or if possible down the market for the dodgy off the back of a van deals. If all else fails- learn how to sew.
    This of course could mean that you may have to give your kids up for adoption as the malnutrition/neglect part might get you in trouble law wise.


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    #107
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    P Breathnach said.....
    He didn't say that.

    Given that it is pantomine season I just cannot resist this...........

    OH YES HE DID !!!!
    However, who funds the income tax yield tells its own story. In overall terms 4% of income earners contribute approximately half of the income tax yield. For 2010, it is estimated that approximately half of income earners will pay no income tax. While they may have some exposure to the income levy, having 50% of earners out of the tax net is not viable if we want to fund the range of services we expect Government to provide.

    The full version is here....

    http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=DAL20091117.xml&Page=1&Ex=725#N725


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #108
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Link please? This figure doesn't include the high earners who don't pay tax or pay very little, does it not?

    I refer deppitty Cadiz to this stuff when deppity P Breathnach is finished wit it....

    http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=DAL20091117.xml&Page=1&Ex=725#N725

    This bit is perhaps of note...
    Turning to where the adjustments should come from, as I said at the outset, I welcome the views of this House, but it is important to bear in mind some key facts. Taking account of the significant increases that have been made to personal taxation this year, the marginal tax rate now stands at 52% for PAYE earners and is higher for the self-employed.

    Presumably the self-employed would be regarded as higher-earners...??


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #109
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Given that it is pantomine season I just cannot resist this...........

    OH YES HE DID !!!!

    The full version is here....

    http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=DAL20091117.xml&Page=1&Ex=725#N725

    Compare what he said with what you claimed he said. There is a significant difference.


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    #110
    iPink
    Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭iPink


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    No the dole doesn't help you buy a house or car, of course it doesn't, but what are people supposed to do???

    You are in a job with no thought of ever being unemployed, you buy a car, a house whatever... next thing you know you are unemployed.... WHAT ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO???

    So you struggle to try to make ends meet, you rob Peter to pay Paul, tread water, hope that you will SOMEHOW bu some miracle get through this... look for a job that is non-existant... try to feed/clothe your family etc
    WHAT DO YOU EXPECT PEOPLE TO DO???

    If they don't pay their debt they will end up homeless or in jail, are you that naive that you don't think that will have some sort of price to pay for society the 'tax-payer'....

    Everyone and I mean EVERYONE could find themselves in that situation at ANY time.... I keep coming across the same names over & over again on these forums saying the dole is too high, people can survive on a lot less, it's not designed to buy houses & cars etc etc etc
    I seriously hope you will never be in the position to find out what it really means...

    Me? I was sitting pretty, married, one child, both working... joint loans; car, credit card, education etc... all thrown at us by the lending institutions.... next thing I know my ex. (Turkish) husband has left me & the country, leaving me a single Mother with responsibility for all the debts... including the astronimical cost of childcare etc... next thing I know I'm unemployed....

    When I was working (17 years out of 37) I would never have begrudged anyone doing the best they can with the circumstances they have found themselves in...


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    #111
    iPink
    Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭iPink


    thebman wrote: »
    Try Dunnes, you know shop around!

    Or buy online.

    I'm guessing you'd need a credit card & internet connection to do that???:confused: oh wait you aren't supposed to have either of those it you are a dole scrounger...:eek:


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    #112
    billy the squid
    Registered Users Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭billy the squid


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Oddly enough gcgirl they DON`T !!

    According to the Minister for Finance hisself...(`n he SHOULD know ?) 50% of the workforce pay NO tax.

    That is income tax. There is tax on most things you buy, or utilities such as gas electricity and telephone.

    it is astounding how some people on this thread can talk so much yet know so little.


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    #113
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    iPink wrote: »
    I'm guessing you'd need a credit card & internet connection to do that???:confused: oh wait you aren't supposed to have either of those it you are a dole scrounger...:eek:

    People can have whatever they want when on the dole, just don't expect the dole to pay for it all. Use your rainy day fund.


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    #114
    Padraig Mor
    Registered Users Posts: 9,564 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    iPink wrote: »
    No the dole doesn't help you buy a house or car, of course it doesn't, but what are people supposed to do???

    You are in a job with no thought of ever being unemployed, you buy a car, a house whatever... next thing you know you are unemployed.... WHAT ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO???

    So you struggle to try to make ends meet, you rob Peter to pay Paul, tread water, hope that you will SOMEHOW bu some miracle get through this... look for a job that is non-existant... try to feed/clothe your family etc
    WHAT DO YOU EXPECT PEOPLE TO DO???

    Well people could try and be responsible for their debts and take out insurance to cover them rather than whinging when they lose their job. I'm paying €130 a month for insurance to cover me if I lose my job (which I don't expect to happen for at least a year, if at all).


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    #115
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    iPink wrote: »
    Me? I was sitting pretty, married, one child, both working... joint loans; car, credit card, education etc... all thrown at us by the lending institutions.... next thing I know my ex. (Turkish) husband has left me & the country, leaving me a single Mother with responsibility for all the debts... including the astronimical cost of childcare etc... next thing I know I'm unemployed....
    I'm genuinely sorry for your troubles. Your ex sounds like a pr!ck but the bit in bold is important. You were NOT forced to take out all these loans. You applied for each and every bit of credit you got.


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    #116
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    How to prepare for the possibility of unemployment:
    - don't buy a home using mortgage finance
    - don't have a car
    - save lots, and don't borrow for anything
    - learn and practise frugal habits
    - accustom yourself to an unheated environment

    If you lose your job, then you also need to
    - quit smoking
    - abandon all social life
    - cut out all recreation except for walks in the park and other free stuff
    - spend all your time looking for a new job
    - whatever else you do or don't do, do not complain about anything -- be invisible
    - it would be a good thing if you forgot to claim your JSA some weeks -- it's good for the soul
    -


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    #117
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    What I said........
    According to the Minister for Finance hisself...(`n he SHOULD know ?) 50% of the workforce pay NO tax.

    What I shudda said...
    .According to the Minister for Finance hisself...(`n he SHOULD know ?) 50% of the workforce pay NO Income tax.
    P.Breathnach. Compare what he said with what you claimed he said. There is a significant difference.

    Just have to agree to disagree here P.

    My point was always in relation to Income Tax or PAYE,whats taken from your paypacket at source.

    The stealthier taxes are,of course payable by all,even the Ciggie sellers in Moore Street,but the fact remains that a VERY significant amount of the Irish workforce pays nowt....

    With a steadily,and from reading Boards.ie posts,rapidly declining average income,Mr L now faces the unpalatable reality of even more direct contributing taxpayers slipping below the "Low Income" threshold.

    What`s he to do.....? :(


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #118
    woodseb
    Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭woodseb


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    How to prepare for the possibility of unemployment:
    - don't buy a home using mortgage finance
    - don't have a car
    - save lots, and don't borrow for anything
    - learn and practise frugal habits
    - accustom yourself to an unheated environment

    -

    not sure what your point is here? the best advice for anyone is never to borrow the full amount for any asset, finance some of it with your savings so if you do lose your job you can sell your assets and hopefully not owe more than their value. i know that doesn't really fit in the real world of falling asset prices but you are not being very realistic either

    fact is welfare is to cover the basics of living and provide for a little more on top of that
    P. Breathnach wrote: »

    If you lose your job, then you also need to
    - quit smoking
    - abandon all social life
    - cut out all recreation except for walks in the park and other free stuff
    - spend all your time looking for a new job
    - whatever else you do or don't do, do not complain about anything -- be invisible
    - it would be a good thing if you forgot to claim your JSA some weeks -- it's good for the soul
    -

    anybody who smokes while on the breadline needs their head examined and plenty of socialising and recreation can be done extremely cheaply. poor-mouting like this serves nobody


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    #119
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    woodseb wrote: »
    not sure what your point is here? ...

    Yes. I think that you didn't quite get my point.


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    #120
    woodseb
    Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭woodseb


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    Yes. I think that you didn't quite get my point.

    how about you elaborate then


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    #121
    iPink
    Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭iPink


    thebman wrote: »
    People can have whatever they want when on the dole, just don't expect the dole to pay for it all. Use your rainy day fund.

    I don't have one, always been hand to mouth, since I was a child, no whinging, that's just the way it has always been, I've never had the opportunity to be able to put money aside. I'm sure there are others like me...

    You are living in cloud cookoo land if you think someone on the dole will be approved a credit card!!


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