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Welfare cuts? What cuts?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭KerranJast


    If you are unlucky enough to lose your job and you have a mortgage, the sensible thing to do is to ask the Bank to be allowed to pay off the interest only. The Dole cannot and should not cover paying off a mortgage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭KerranJast


    iPink wrote: »
    You are living in cloud cookoo land if you think someone on the dole will be approved a credit card!!
    3V vouchers can be bought for cash and used for online purchases.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    woodseb wrote: »
    not sure what your point is here? the best advice for anyone is never to borrow the full amount for any asset, finance some of it with your savings so if you do lose your job you can sell your assets and hopefully not owe more than their value. i know that doesn't really fit in the real world of falling asset prices but you are not being very realistic either

    fact is welfare is to cover the basics of living and provide for a little more on top of that


    anybody who smokes while on the breadline needs their head examined and plenty of socialising and recreation can be done extremely cheaply. poor-mouting like this serves nobody

    I think you missed the heavy dose of sarcasm


  • Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭iPink


    Well people could try and be responsible for their debts and take out insurance to cover them rather than whinging when they lose their job. I'm paying €130 a month for insurance to cover me if I lose my job (which I don't expect to happen for at least a year, if at all).

    Fair play to you that you have the extra cash to spare to take out insurance cover :)
    I did have cover on one or two but they were rendered invalid due to the fact that the details of the loan had changed ie my ex. disappeared, dead for all I know, and I was forced to take responsibility... also some of these cover redundancy only (for example) or only cover one or two months of repayments, I genuinely hope you never are in a position to try to cash in on your insurance cover cos they will use any opportunity NOT to pay it!! I know I've been there, fought that war... and lost!! Check the fine print with a tooth comb!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    KerranJast wrote: »
    3V vouchers can be bought for cash and used for online purchases.

    student credit cards are easy enough to get during the summer even if you dont have a job, thats also if you dont have very bad credit


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  • Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭woodseb


    I think you missed the heavy dose of sarcasm

    the sarcasm was obvious, the point behind it isn't.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭iPink


    KerranJast wrote: »
    3V vouchers can be bought for cash and used for online purchases.

    that's true but if you're going to go out and buy vouchers to use a 3V card, you might as well just go into the shop and buy the food in the first place & not use the online facility... you also save out on delivery charges & the 3V service charge!!

    Also the point I was making was in answer to the previous poster saying that people on the dole can have whatever they want!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭iPink


    murphaph wrote: »
    I'm genuinely sorry for your troubles. Your ex sounds like a pr!ck but the bit in bold is important. You were NOT forced to take out all these loans. You applied for each and every bit of credit you got.

    Of course I take full responsibility, hind-sight is 20/20 vision & just about flawless!!
    Of course I never expected to find myself as a deserted wife with a fatherless child either or any of the myriad of decisions I have taken in the past which turned out perhaps NOT to have been great decisions to have made!

    I did what most people do- I made the decision I thought suited best with the information I had at hand AT THE TIME of making it!! Does that mean that now I should be homeless or go to jail? I didn't kill anyone or break any laws (that I am aware of), though I am now due to not honoring the contracts I took out at that time...

    If I climb a tree to try to get higher or to get a better view of the world and fall out and break my leg, I hope someone would help me get to a doctor rather than beating me up for having climbed the tree in the first place!!

    People on the dole still pay taxes; VAT etc, they inject the money they receive from welfare straight back into the system which in turn insures jobs etc for others and MOST importantly they are still valid members of society and human beings...

    If you live in Ireland you live in a Welfare State, which means you enjoy all the benefits and responsibilities of living here (such as caring for the more unfortunate members of society), If you don't like it then really you should think about moving to a different country where welfare does not exist... although probably your possibility of finding a job there will also be lessened... it's very complex but employment and unemployment actually go hand in hand..

    All I'm asking is for a little compassion for those less well off; mentally, physically & economically for whatever reason...


  • Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭iPink


    How to prepare for the possibility of unemployment:
    - don't buy a home using mortgage finance
    - don't have a car
    - save lots, and don't borrow for anything
    - learn and practise frugal habits
    - accustom yourself to an unheated environment

    If you lose your job, then you also need to
    - quit smoking
    - abandon all social life
    - cut out all recreation except for walks in the park and other free stuff
    - spend all your time looking for a new job
    - whatever else you do or don't do, do not complain about anything -- be invisible
    - it would be a good thing if you forgot to claim your JSA some weeks -- it's good for the soul
    -

    :D are you for real?? seriously??? took me a while to recover from laughing there.... I wouldn't even know where to start!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭iPink


    student credit cards are easy enough to get during the summer even if you dont have a job, thats also if you dont have very bad credit

    and also presumably if you actually ARE a student!! which I don't think comes into this particular discussion... different thread maybe?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭Cadiz


    thebman wrote: »



    I don't have to disclose my personal circumstances to you but I have lived on much less than the dole for months because I had no choice. For a single person, the dole is way too high.


    You don't, but if you're going to come on a public forum and claim the "dole being way too high" you need to show that you've some experience of what you're talking about.

    If you won't do that, then people will assume you're talking rubbish. The vagueness makes me think you haven't a clue really.


  • Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭Cadiz


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    I refer deppitty Cadiz to this stuff when deppity P Breathnach is finished wit it....

    http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=DAL20091117.xml&Page=1&Ex=725#N725

    This bit is perhaps of note...



    Presumably the self-employed would be regarded as higher-earners...??

    This is the third time you haven't answered my question, because you know that's not correct. That 50% does not refer to low earners exclusively. Instead of avoiding an answer you might have the grace to admit that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭Cadiz


    No doubt you think there's a bottomless pit of money there too?

    And still whinging - hilarious.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 98 ✭✭Atwork


    How to prepare for the possibility of unemployment:
    - don't buy a home using mortgage finance
    - don't have a car
    - save lots, and don't borrow for anything
    - learn and practise frugal habits
    - accustom yourself to an unheated environment

    If you lose your job, then you also need to
    - quit smoking
    - abandon all social life
    - cut out all recreation except for walks in the park and other free stuff
    - spend all your time looking for a new job
    - whatever else you do or don't do, do not complain about anything -- be invisible
    - it would be a good thing if you forgot to claim your JSA some weeks -- it's good for the soul
    -

    Over the years I have read some shocking Sh1t on this website, but this beats all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭iPink


    Atwork wrote: »
    Over the years I have read some shocking Sh1t on this website, but this beats all.


    agreed... but perhaps that was the idea (to get a reaction) can't believe anyone would actually come up with that crap and be serious!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭Eliot Rosewater


    woodseb wrote: »
    poor-mouting like this serves nobody
    iPink wrote: »
    are you for real?? seriously??? took me a while to recover from laughing there.... I wouldn't even know where to start!!
    Atwork wrote: »
    Over the years I have read some shocking Sh1t on this website, but this beats all.
    iPink wrote: »
    perhaps that was the idea (to get a reaction) can't believe anyone would actually come up with that crap and be serious!!

    People not picking up on sarcasm on Internet boards has got to be one of the best, recession-proof, forms of humor!


  • Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭iPink


    People not picking up on sarcasm on Internet boards has got to be one of the best, recession-proof, forms of humor!

    Maybe you're right, hard to pick it up through the the written word... I'm not 100% convinced though, I've come across people that think like that, someone said they would like to see the return of Work Houses or similar modern versions


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 98 ✭✭Atwork


    People not picking up on sarcasm on Internet boards has got to be one of the best, recession-proof, forms of humor!

    If it is sacasm then fair enough, but over the last three to four months its genuinely getting harder and harder to spot sarcasm when topics like this are being discussed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 600 ✭✭✭Rev. BlueJeans


    Cadiz wrote: »
    And still whinging - hilarious.

    I'm glad you find the whole situation amusing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    People not picking up on sarcasm on Internet boards has got to be one of the best, recession-proof, forms of humor!

    Well, I thought it was satire, but what would I know? It was largely a distillation of thoughts I found posted here.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭gcgirl


    oh you forgot the mass sternlization of kids 17 and older from really bad places and termination of people 66 and older ! Christ the amount of money we'd save gcgirl for the dail :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    How to prepare for the possibility of unemployment:
    - don't buy a home using mortgage finance
    - don't have a car
    - save lots, and don't borrow for anything
    - learn and practise frugal habits
    - accustom yourself to an unheated environment

    You can do all those things just have rainy day fund in case it all goes pear shaped to last you for at least 6 months.

    The problem on here is its a sin to say someone should ever have had more than a euro in their account. That nobody is doing anything wrong by living on their overdraft/credit card month to month. Well it is wrong and always has been so I don't see why people are surprised and think Social Welfare should be enough to cover all their debts and expenses.

    The money for social welfare comes from people still in work. Why should anybody that didn't buy a house, didn't take out a car loan to buy an SUV and only uses their heating when they need to have to fund the lifestyles of those that don't want to?

    Its completely illogical to suggest that I should pay off somebody else's mortgage because they lost their job.
    If you lose your job, then you also need to
    - quit smoking
    - abandon all social life
    - cut out all recreation except for walks in the park and other free stuff
    - spend all your time looking for a new job
    - whatever else you do or don't do, do not complain about anything -- be invisible
    - it would be a good thing if you forgot to claim your JSA some weeks -- it's good for the soul
    -

    Yes you should quit smoking if you are going hungry to pay for smokes because food is more important. There are plenty of social activities that are free or very cheap. Its impossible to spend all day every day looking for a job, it will drive you insane. You should check once or twice a day and if you have lots of experience working Mon-Fri jobs then there probably isn't much point checking all the time at the weekend so relax. I don't think anybody should be invisible, they should hang out with mates in their house and watch a DVD. I'd hope most peoples friends would invite them over and collect them if needs be for a night of fun. Otherwise they aren't really mates IMO.

    Its just bollocks trying to demonise the people that say social welfare shouldn't pay for luxuries like credit cards and car loans. Its not supposed to, thats what your savings are for when you fall on hard times.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    aurelius79 wrote: »
    What about the disabled? They and their carers got cuts in the budget. Not everyone is able to work and carers actually save the State money.

    What about the hundreds of mental patients who have been turned out into the streets and homeless shelters because of facility closures around the country?

    Try thinking about someone other than yourself for once. Not everyone can afford to be as arrogant and self-righteous as you.

    just to add , the reason mental patients are being discharged is nothing to do with facility closures , its because wooly liberals call the shots when it comes to our mental health services nowadays and theese people believe its wrong to lock someone up indefinatley and to hell with the consequences for the patient or society in general , as someone who has a relative who is not the full schilling , i know a little about this area , unless you litterally kill someone , you cannot be locked up against your will in this country anymore


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    iPink wrote: »
    I don't have one, always been hand to mouth, since I was a child, no whinging, that's just the way it has always been, I've never had the opportunity to be able to put money aside. I'm sure there are others like me...

    You are living in cloud cookoo land if you think someone on the dole will be approved a credit card!!

    You've never had any savings? How did you get the mortgage with no money in your account?

    Most people would already have the credit card from their time in employment as even when employed most people buy online to save money.
    Cadiz wrote: »
    You don't, but if you're going to come on a public forum and claim the "dole being way too high" you need to show that you've some experience of what you're talking about.

    If you won't do that, then people will assume you're talking rubbish. The vagueness makes me think you haven't a clue really.

    Eh no thats bollocks. There are many reasons why someone would not want to disclose person information about themselves online. It is foolish to suggest that I should give the information because you want to verify my situation :rolleyes:

    For one thing, this is the Internet I can make anything up that I want so it doesn't verify anything by me typing it. If I said, I lived with Willy Wonka in his chocolate factory as a worker but he had to make me redundant so I had to find a new job, would that be acceptable to you?

    Welcome to the Internet, I don't have to tell you anything I don't want to and it doesn't make anything I say invalid except to you. I can just as easily turn around and spout the same rubbish at you or any other poster here saying everything everyone has said is invalid as there is no verification.

    Should we just delete boards.ie and save everyone some time? :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭Sandvich


    The money for social welfare comes from people still in work. Why should anybody that didn't buy a house, didn't take out a car loan to buy an SUV and only uses their heating when they need to have to fund the lifestyles of those that don't want to?

    Yes, people just "don't want to". All of a sudden at the turn of the recession, hundreds of thousands of people simultaneously decided, you know what, I don't want to go to work anymore. That's how this mess started.
    Its completely illogical to suggest that I should pay off somebody else's mortgage because they lost their job.

    Saying something is illogical means you have to follow it up with a damn good explanation as to how, not I NEED MY MONEY MORE THAN PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY NEED IT MORE.

    It's not "Illogical". If it actually pulls the economy out of the ****ter, then it's a good idea. Something isn't illogical just because you don't like it. I'm sure the people with crippling mortgages don't like it either, or your right wing attitude.

    The reason I always hate libertarianism/right wing economics is because without the country, the government protecting your property rights you would have nothing to begin with. When you are asked to give a little something back so people don't end up homeless, then you seem to throw a hissy fit, or pin the blame on the welfare feens for not giving back, when most of them need that money right now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Sandvich wrote: »
    Yes, people just "don't want to". All of a sudden at the turn of the recession, hundreds of thousands of people simultaneously decided, you know what, I don't want to go to work anymore. That's how this mess started.
    You've completely misunderstood what thebman wrote.

    He said 'why should people who live within their means fund the extravagant ones'. Nothing about funding people who don't want to work. Everyone knows loads of people who thought they had to have that new car because the neighbours got one. Out and out jealousy it was.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    Sandvich wrote: »
    Yes, people just "don't want to". All of a sudden at the turn of the recession, hundreds of thousands of people simultaneously decided, you know what, I don't want to go to work anymore. That's how this mess started.

    I never said that at all but nice to see there is another person on here trying to put words in my and anyone else that doesn't want to pay for someone else's house mouths.
    Saying something is illogical means you have to follow it up with a damn good explanation as to how, not I NEED MY MONEY MORE THAN PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY NEED IT MORE.

    Ok how about I earned it, you didn't, hands off :rolleyes:

    How about its their mortgage, it isn't a necessity so why should a payment for basic needs cover it other than because they want to?

    I thought it was fairly obvious why it was illogical. I've yet to see a good reason why it should. I've seen plenty of stories trying to generate sympathy but no logic yet.
    It's not "Illogical". If it actually pulls the economy out of the ****ter, then it's a good idea. Something isn't illogical just because you don't like it. I'm sure the people with crippling mortgages don't like it either, or your right wing attitude.

    How does me paying for someone else's mortgage rescue the economy?
    The reason I always hate libertarianism/right wing economics is because without the country, the government protecting your property rights you would have nothing to begin with. When you are asked to give a little something back so people don't end up homeless, then you seem to throw a hissy fit, or pin the blame on the welfare feens for not giving back, when most of them need that money right now.

    They won't end up homeless, they can rent or talk to their mortgage lender who doesn't want the property anyway.

    This whole part of your post is just an attempt to demonise. I never said there should be no social welfare or anything of the sort. I just said it should cover necessities and that a mortgage payment isn't a necessity. Food/water/shelter is.

    A mortgage is a loan, it should not pay off someone else's loan. That is unfair to the other unemployed people. Social Welfare should not be a guy sitting behind a counter saying how much do you want :rolleyes:

    Why the hell would anybody ever work if that was the case. Its supposed to cover necessities. Why do people think their luxuries are necessities?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 243 ✭✭KC JONES


    iPink wrote: »
    You are living in cloud cookoo land if you think someone on the dole will be approved a credit card!!
    you could get www.3v.ie visa. But read TC re charges


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 243 ✭✭KC JONES


    irish_bob wrote: »
    unless you litterally kill someone , you cannot be locked up against your will in this country anymore
    not true. you can be locked up, as you put it, if you are a danger to yourself/others. you don't have to carry out a killing but be thought likely to..


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  • Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭Cadiz


    I'm glad you find the whole situation amusing.

    I don't, particularly, you'd know that if you'd read through this thread, but I do find your inability to make any constructive contribution to a debate except whinging amusing.


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