Liverpool vs. Arsenal 13/12/09 (MOD NOTE: #119 and OP)

monkey9

KevIRL wrote: »

Ian St John getting emotional on SS1

wandatowell wrote: »

Jesus Ian St. John is gutted there,

I honestly thought he was going to break down there!!

Frisbee

Ardent wrote: »

Liverpool never going to the win the league while Kuyt is an ever-present in the team.

What? Kuyt was arguably one of Liverpool's better players today. Infact I'd say only Lucas had a better game than him, maybe Benayoun.

leninbenjamin

ROCKMAN wrote: »

To go from that to a second half where they could not get near or live with Arsenal passing and movement is just confusing.

To be fair to the Pool players, all the Arsenal players are giving credit to Wenger's teamtalk. Sometimes managers will just get it 100% right and the game completely turns.

Given how turbulent the match today was, I wouldn't read an awful lot into it.

monkey9 wrote: »

I honestly thought he was going to break down there!!

His reaction was creepy, it was like someone had died :rolleyes:

noodler

OPENROAD wrote: »

Priceless


Win our game in hand three points off the top, we are well off the pace

Come off it, he was clearly being based on the cripplefight that was today's game.

Spiritoftheseventies

leninbenjamin wrote: »

To be fair to the Pool players, all the Arsenal players are giving credit to Wenger's teamtalk. Sometimes managers will just get it 100% right and the game completely turns.

Given how turbulent the match today was, I wouldn't read an awful lot into it.



His reaction was creepy, it was like someone had died :rolleyes:

well sure he was brought up in shanks era when football wasn't a matter of life and death. It was more important than that. Tells you something when Saint gets upset.

Aidric

leninbenjamin wrote: »

His reaction was creepy, it was like someone had died :rolleyes:

The top four challenge certainly has.

We played very well first half followed by a shocker 2nd half.

The team seems to be lacking in serious confidence and the players didn't seem to respond when Arsenal scored the equalizer. They didn't seem interested in the 2nd half tbh.

Arsenal were no great shapes today and we couldn't even muster a shot on target in the 2nd half.

The players have to take a lot of responsability. How can they play so well in the first half and so shít in the 2nd?

Morale is rock bottom and gotta get it together asap.

A defeat to Wigan on Wednesday and Benitez may well be gone.

Btw, Glen Johnson was very poor today for their winner. Gerrard was shocking too, gave the ball away needlessly on a number of occasions.

The way we are crumbling in games and the subsequent reaction of the players this year makes me wonder has the manager lost the dressing room?

jesus_thats_gre

Well that was extremely frustrating. Couldn't have asked for much more in the first half. I said on the 3rd minute of the second half that the composure was gone and we never recovered it at any stage throughout the second half.

cson

Christ the pundits on Sky... do they just go down to the pub and go "you, you and you; come with us and put this suit on"? :eek:

raido9

Frisbee wrote: »

What? Kuyt was arguably one of Liverpool's better players today. Infact I'd say only Lucas had a better game than him, maybe Benayoun.

That statement sums up exactly what is wrong with Liverpool football club.

Spiritoftheseventies

rarnes1 wrote: »

We played very well first half followed by a shocker 2nd half.

The team seems to be lacking in serious confidence and the players didn't seem to respond when Arsenal scored the equalizer. They didn't seem interested in the 2nd half tbh.

Arsenal were no great shapes today and we couldn't even muster a shot on target in the 2nd half.

The players have to take a lot of responsability. How can they play so well in the first half and so shít in the 2nd?

Morale is rock bottom and gotta get it together asap.

A defeat to Wigan on Wednesday and Benitez may well be gone.

Btw, Glen Johnson was very poor today for their winner. Gerrard was shocking too, gave the ball away needlessly on a number of occasions.

The way we are crumbling in games and the subsequent reaction of the players this year makes me wonder has the manager lost the dressing room?

Yes reminds me of the situation Scolari had with Chelsea last year. Team just wouldn't play for him. Maybe a change of manager will breath life into a team.

OPENROAD

noodler wrote: »

Come off it, he was clearly being based on the cripplefight that was today's game.

Read his first sentance again.

cson

rarnes1 wrote: »

Arsenal were no great shapes today and we couldn't even muster a shot on target in the 2nd half.

I'd agree with that, we were very poor today.

evil_seed

rarnes1 wrote: »

The way we are crumbling in games and the subsequent reaction of the players this year makes me wonder has the manager lost the dressing room?

its starting to look that way. feeling eerily similar to when houllier was nearing the end of his time in charge

daithijjj

Frisbee wrote: »

What? Kuyt was arguably one of Liverpool's better players today. Infact I'd say only Lucas had a better game than him, maybe Benayoun.

I have to disagree, kuyt was average and this is pretty much where the club is at.

More than half of that liverpool squad (my team by the way), is europa league standard, shanks/paisley wouldnt have let half of them through the gate. Last season we played some absolute muck (boro x2, pompey, b'ham etc) and manged to squeeze out 3 points on occasions, our luck has changed.

leninbenjamin

Gray now talking about Masch's performance. And i have to say, it's the first time in a long time I'm listening to Gray and not finding what he says is utter [marketing] sh*te. Liverpool really are nothing without him, and we saw that today in the second half.

Spiritoftheseventies

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Gray now talking about Masch's performance. And i have to say, it's the first time in a long time I'm listening to Gray and not finding what he says is utter [marketing] sh*te. Liverpool really are nothing without him, and we saw that today in the second half.

Yes but to be fair he has been in the team for last few months and we haven't been making waves. Ill say it again. Not enough goals coming from midfield.

noodler

OPENROAD wrote: »

Read his first sentance again.

Yep and the point stands. Both performances were well off the pace expected by the top.

Frisbee

raido9 wrote: »

That statement sums up exactly what is wrong with Liverpool football club.

Torres and Gerrard are both just returning from semi-lengthy lay off's.

I though both Lucas and Mascherano were very good today.

OPENROAD

noodler wrote: »

Yep and the point stands. Both performances were well off the pace expected by the top.

I read it differently but there you go

Possibly not the best of matches but from Arsenals point of view, we are the away team, in the past have played teams off the park and ended up with nothing, we are not at our best today maybe, still go to Anfield in a huge pressure game, take the three points that gets us back in the league.

invincibleirish

leninbenjamin wrote: »

What people always forget is that Villa and City always fall off in the second half of the season. They are where they are due to wins against teams in the bottom half of the table, that becomes much more difficult though as the relegation battle heats up. Pool should be fine for 4th.

Villa record Versus current top 10 this season:

Chelsea 16 37 - Villa win
Man Utd 16 34 - Villa win
Arsenal 15 31 - Dec 27th
Aston Villa 16 29 -
Tottenham 16 27 - Draw
Man City 15 26 - Draw
Liverpool 16 24 - Villa win
Birmingham 16 24 -Villa win
Fulham 16 23 -Villa win
Sunderland 16 21 -Tuesday
Stoke City 16 21 -Saturday

If anything Villa are where they are despite the teams failings against bottom half teams.

noodler

OPENROAD wrote: »

I read it differently but there you go

Possibly not the best of matches but from Arsenals point of view, we are the away team, in the past have played teams off the park and ended up with nothing, we are not at our best today maybe, still go to Anfield in a huge pressure game, take the three points that gets us back in the league.

No question - I still feel a point was fairer. I know it doesn't matter now but you tend to cling to whatever you can in dark times like this.

Bloody recession, Ireland cheated out of the WC and Pool out of everything important well before Xmas.

The Muppet

Frisbee wrote: »

What? Kuyt was arguably one of Liverpool's better players today. Infact I'd say only Lucas had a better game than him, maybe Benayoun.

Thats puts Liverpools problems in a nutshell for me, When Kuyt and Lucas are your seen as your best players it doesn't reflect very well on the rest of the team. IMO the two of them are very ordinary players and that's being kind to them.

Frisbee

Song was Arsenal's best player today.

Does that reflect badly on the rest of the Arsenal team?

CCCP^

So are we (Pool) looking at a 5th or 6th place this season?

OPENROAD

noodler wrote: »

No question - I still feel a point was fairer. I know it doesn't matter now but you tend to cling to whatever you can in dark times like this.

.

I know mate I do the same myself all the time, I wouldn't worry, Liverpool will go on a run, they are always strong in the second half of the season, as long as you keep Gerrard and Torres fit, you will be fine

Spiritoftheseventies

The Muppet wrote: »

Thats puts Liverpools problems in a nutshell for me, When Kuyt and Lucas are your seen as your best players it doesn't reflect very well on the rest of the team. IMO the two of them are very ordinary players and that's being kind to them.

Who said they were our best players? Oh i see what happended. Some one remarked Kuyt was our best player today. two different things entirely

leninbenjamin

invincibleirish wrote: »

If anything Villa are where they are despite the teams failings against bottom half teams.

That's a very interesting set of results. So how come they always seem to flag off in the last few months of the season? I'd just assumed it was because of the bottom half teams...

noodler

OPENROAD wrote: »

I know mate I do the same myself all the time, I wouldn't worry, Liverpool will go on a run, they are always strong in the second half of the season, as long as you keep Gerrard and Torres fit, you will be fine

Not if the captain doesn't stop diving, whinging, throwing his hands up in the air and generally being a crap leader.

It doesn't matter anyway - the burden needs to be shared. We clearly can't rely on a player who may well be passing his best and another who can't stay fit for half the season.

raido9

leninbenjamin wrote: »

That's a very interesting set of results. So how come they always seem to flag off in the last few months of the season? I'd just assumed it was because of the bottom half teams...

Lack of squad depth. And Martin O Neills March curse!

CCCP^

CCCP^ wrote: »

So are we (Pool) looking at a 5th or 6th place this season?

there's 22 games left.

Our bad spell has to end sometime, hopefully starting on Wed followed by Pompy away saturday morning.

Spiritoftheseventies

noodler wrote: »

Not if the captain doesn't stop diving, whinging, throwing his hands up in the air and generally being a crap leader.

It doesn't matter anyway - the burden needs to be shared. We clearly can't rely on a player who may well be passing his best and another who can't stay fit for half the season.

This is getting a bit crazy. How is Gerrard past his best. One season does not make him a bad player. As for Torres he has being playing football for three consecutive summers. Which has contributed to his injuries

raido9

noodler wrote: »

Not if the captain doesn't stop diving, whinging, throwing his hands up in the air and generally being a crap leader.

It doesn't matter anyway - the burden needs to be shared. We clearly can't rely on a player who may well be passing his best and another who can't stay fit for half the season.

Shocking from Gerrard today. At one point he ran into a player (Song I think) looking for a free, instead of easily going around him. Glad the ref wasn't fooled by this blatant manipulation of the officials.

Beau x1

€5 on Arsenal coming from behind and winning at 12/1 odds..**** yeah.

mormank

one thing of note from the game was that i thought lucas looked quite assured in midfield once masch had gone off. i wouldve thought he might have shriveled away a little being the 'senior' midfielder but thought he got even more possesion once aquaman came on. perhaps they could form quite a good partnership with lucas playing a similar role to mikel at chelsea

greendom

noodler wrote: »

Yep and the point stands. Both performances were well off the pace expected by the top.

Same goes for Man U and Chelsea this weekend. Don't think it proves an awful lot tbh.

Le King

This puts a smile on my weekend after our result yesterday.

LuckyLloyd

Frisbee wrote: »

Delighted with that result.

Liverpool were unlucky (penalty shout, Torres 1-on-1) not to be comfortably ahead at HT, they completely outplayed us in the first half.

Second half started much the same, then we got a massive slice of luck with the OG and Liverpool's heads went down which gave us a chance to play.

Overall I think a draw would have been a fair result but delighted with the three points.

Yep, pretty much that.

NukaCola

Osu wrote: »

This puts a smile on my weekend after our result yesterday.

:rolleyes:

Glico Man

Osu wrote: »

This puts a smile on my weekend after our result yesterday.

I'm sorry, but you would rather see Liverpool lose than United win?



Some fan

NukaCola

Beau x1 wrote: »

€5 on Arsenal coming from behind and winning at 12/1 odds..**** yeah.

Thanks for sharing :rolleyes:

LuckyLloyd

Rosco1982 wrote: »

There are numerous factors, even if we leave out the effect that Alonso's ability to control the rhythm of game and his ability to cut out attacks before they get going.

I would say our main problem is at the back, we've conceded 20 goals already in the league, we normally concede a little more than that in a whole season.

Reasons for that:

1. We've replaced solid full backs with more attacking ones that don't defend particularly well. Riise had his knockers but he defends much better than Dossena, Aurelio and Insua. Arbeloa is better defensively than Johnson.

2. Age is not being kind to Jamie Carragher.

3. Martin Skrtel doesn't look as assured as he did in his first six months with us.

4. Agger doesn't stay fit for long enough.


I think the problems run a lot deeper than that though, but that's our problem on the pitch for me.

Good post. We have been genuinely good going forward this season, but defensively there has been a massive drop off. I'd add to the above points that not having Hyppia around training and the dressing room is proving to be a huge blow.

GLaDOS

aaronh007 wrote: »

I'm sorry, but you would rather see Liverpool lose than United win?



Some fan

He never said that it was better, just that it helps

LuckyLloyd

Beau x1 wrote: »

€5 on Arsenal coming from behind and winning at 12/1 odds..**** yeah.

Just a general note on betting / gambling etiquette: after timing is generally considered to be poor form.

Mr Alan

i'd rate Aurelio as a better defender than Riise, certainly in his last couple of years with us.

i also think the difference defensively between Arbeloa Johnson is very small.

i agree with the rest of the points.

monkey9

BumbleBee123 wrote: »

Thanks for sharing :rolleyes:

Ah it's a recession!! Always good to see someone fleece the bookies!

LuckyLloyd

Ardent wrote: »

Liverpool never going to the win the league while Kuyt is an ever-present in the team.

lol

NukaCola

monkey9 wrote: »

Ah it's a recession!! Always good to see someone fleece the bookies!

In some ways i'm a bitter bitter man

jaykay74

Beau x1 wrote: »

Arsenal fan here, bets on:

€5 Fabregas first goal
€5 Vermaelen first goal
€5 Arshavin first goal
€5 Arsenal to win from behind

Providing Arsenal don't bottle this it's ours.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Just a general note on betting / gambling etiquette: after timing is generally considered to be poor form.

BumbleBee123 wrote: »

Thanks for sharing :rolleyes:

He posted it before the game as well. I think accusing someone of after timing wrongly is also poor form

NukaCola

jaykay74 wrote: »

He posted it before the game as well. I think accusing someone of after timing wrongly is also poor form

Part of me knew that....
Well done to Beau and Arsenal on the win.
Worrying for Liverpool now...