Liverpool vs. Arsenal 13/12/09 (MOD NOTE: #119 and OP)

ilovelamp2000

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Good post. We have been genuinely good going forward this season, but defensively there has been a massive drop off. I'd add to the above points that not having Hyppia around training and the dressing room is proving to be a huge blow.

Yeah pretty much as soon as I posted that I realised I forgot about Sami. He's playing regularly for Leverkusen and they're top of the Bundesliga.

I can't for the life of me fathom why we let him go. He's clearly better than the Greek that cost us a couple of million.

I know he wanted to play a bit more, and I have to think him being left out of the CL squad in favour of Degen last yeat upset him but there was definitely room for him in the first team this season.

Galvasean

Osu wrote: »

This puts a smile on my weekend after our result yesterday.

aaronh007 wrote: »

I'm sorry, but you would rather see Liverpool lose than United win?



Some fan

ScienceNerd wrote: »

He never said that it was better, just that it helps

Wait, is he a United fan? then surely a Liverpool win or a draw would have been better for United than having Arsenal win and get right behind them?

SlickRic

well done arsenal.

but what the f*ck happened?

i missed the game, but from all the reports from friends and media, liverpool dominated for the 1st half, scored, came out second half, then didn't have a shot?

were arsenal that good? or did rafa do his caution first routine?

it's worrying that there seems to have been no reaction once we went behind. the confidence of the team must be shot.

spockety

SlickRic wrote: »

well done arsenal.

but what the f*ck happened?

i missed the game, but from all the reports from friends and media, liverpool dominated for the 1st half, scored, came out second half, then didn't have a shot?

were arsenal that good? or did rafa do his caution first routine?

it's worrying that there seems to have been no reaction once we went behind. the confidence of the team must be shot.

We had a stone wall penalty denied, and suffered an own goal to get arsenal their in. I'm numb to it at this stage. However, there is no shame in losing to a team like arsenal, and anybody using this particutlar loss as a reason to jump on rafa is misguided.

OPENROAD

SlickRic wrote: »

well done arsenal.

but what the f*ck happened?

i missed the game, but from all the reports from friends and media, liverpool dominated for the 1st half, scored, came out second half, then didn't have a shot?

were arsenal that good? or did rafa do his caution first routine?

it's worrying that there seems to have been no reaction once we went behind. the confidence of the team must be shot.

Arsenal very poor in the first half turned it around after Wenger apparently lost it at half time.

citytillidie

Redzer7 wrote: »

No, just no.

Even Lee Dixion on MOTD said that Arsenal got most of the luck from the ref

SlickRic

spockety wrote: »

We had a stone wall penalty denied, and suffered an own goal to get arsenal their in. I'm numb to it at this stage. However, there is no shame in losing to a team like arsenal, and anybody using this particutlar loss as a reason to jump on rafa is misguided.

there indeed isn't.

i've not known a season like this.

OPENROAD

Alan Hansen on MOTD :mad::mad:

Frisbee

OPENROAD wrote: »

Alan Hansen on MOTD :mad::mad:

Tell me about it.

Fabregas should have seen red?

I think the reason it was given against Mascherano was because his studs were up and Fabregas' weren't Alan...

OPENROAD

citytillidie wrote: »

Even Lee Dixion on MOTD said that Arsenal got most of the luck from the ref

Thats the way it goes, Liverpool have got plenty of luck with refs in the past.

OPENROAD

Frisbee wrote: »

Tell me about it.

Fabregas should have seen red?

I think the reason it was given against Mascherano was because his studs were up and Fabregas' weren't Alan...

"Two individual mistakes" so what about the Liverpool goal then, Mr Hansen?

wandatowell

MOTD is awful and has been for some time now. haven't watched it since eduardo broke his entire leg. Complete rubbish talk from the panel imo

jesus_thats_gre

wandatowell wrote: »

broke his entire leg.

This made me chuckle

L'prof

spockety wrote: »

We had a stone wall penalty denied, and suffered an own goal to get arsenal their in. I'm numb to it at this stage. However, there is no shame in losing to a team like arsenal, and anybody using this particutlar loss as a reason to jump on rafa is misguided.

I'm sure people are jumping on 4 wins in 15 rather than losing to Arsenal!

Spiritoftheseventies

wandatowell wrote: »

MOTD is awful and has been for some time now. haven't watched it since eduardo broke his entire leg. Complete rubbish talk from the panel imo

Silly comment. Lee Dixon's analysis (particulary of first half was very good). two keys to the game. Poor refereeing (and openroadit doesn't matter one iota about past refereeing decisisions, we are talking about this game) and Benny's slack play for Arsenals second goal. Yossi has been very good for us in past but he never closed down for cross which led to winner while also giving initial possession away

cson

If he'd closed down the cross he would have had to foul Fabregas giving away a free kick in the exact same postion. He came from behind therefore to stop the cross he would have had to foul Fabregas.

Are we really reduced to picking over such nuances? Don't they happen in every game? - If x had done y then z would not have happened, repeat ad infinitum.

spockety

jasonorr wrote: »

I'm sure people are jumping on 4 wins in 15 rather than losing to Arsenal!

I think it's fair to be concerned, I am concerned myself. However, I temper it with the fact that we have had some bad injury problems, and that half the season hasn't even been played yet.

If the form of the last 3 months continues for the next 5 months, then I will be extremely disappointed, and will be looking for action from the owners in the Summer. By which I mean provide Rafa with an investment fund for decent transfers.

Although I feel Liverpool were hard done by yesterday with the penalty claim, I accept the result. Arsenal are a team that when we play them there simply is no way to call it for sure going into the match. They are one of the top sides, and there is no shame in losing to them.

Ush1

"By which I mean provide Rafa with an investment fund for decent transfers"

Remember, this is Rafa.;)

spockety

Ush1 wrote: »

"By which I mean provide Rafa with an investment fund for decent transfers"

Remember, this is Rafa.;)

Nice try.

There is an entire thread dedicated to the discussion you are trying to provoke there.

kida

spockety wrote: »

Although I feel Liverpool were hard done by yesterday with the penalty claim, I accept the result. Arsenal are a team that when we play them there simply is no way to call it for sure going into the match. They are one of the top sides, and there is no shame in losing to them.

Fair enough but are you not worried by the second half performance? Where was the desire? After Arsenal scored the first you were never going to win? Heads dropped, including the captains. Something looks wrong in the dressing room. Even the kop seemed to accept you were not going to get back into the game. There was not one chance created in the 2nd half, thats in a home game that could be argued was make or break.

Ush1

spockety wrote: »

Nice try.

There is an entire thread dedicated to the discussion you are trying to provoke there.

Not trying to provoke anything, just pointing something out is all.:)

spockety

kida wrote: »

Fair enough but are you not worried by the second half performance? Where was the desire? After Arsenal scored the first you were never going to win? Heads dropped, including the captains. Something looks wrong in the dressing room. Even the kop seemed to accept you were not going to get back into the game. There was not one chance created in the 2nd half, thats in a home game that could be argued was make or break.

I think if Arsenal had scored their first, it might have been different, but it wasn't Arsenal that scored their first, it was Glen Johnson. This was typical of the run Liverpool are on, with beach balls and denied penalties littering the last few months. I'd say when Glen Johnson scored that goal, the players felt the same way I did, "Bloody typical, luck is not shining on us", and that immediately drained the confidence.

The only way to combat that is to go out and start winning a lot of games in a row. It's not uniquely a Liverpool problem, other top sides have suffered from these kind of runs in the past, and the only cure is a set of victories.

jesus_thats_gre

The side looked terrified from the start of the second half. They had no confidence that they would maintain the lead and when Johnson stuck the ball in his own net, their worst fears were realised. Tis a very worrying state of affairs. It's unfortunate too as Arsenal were there for the taking - had an off day but took their chances when they came.

jesus_thats_gre

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

The side looked terrified from the start of the second half. They had no confidence that they would maintain the lead and when Johnson stuck the ball in his own net, their worst fears were realised.

That's spot on. No confidence at all. The team needs a few wins on the trot to get it back starting Wednesday.

Fuhrer

spockety wrote: »

I think if Arsenal had scored their first, it might have been different, but it wasn't Arsenal that scored their first, it was Glen Johnson. This was typical of the run Liverpool are on, with beach balls and denied penalties littering the last few months. I'd say when Glen Johnson scored that goal, the players felt the same way I did, "Bloody typical, luck is not shining on us", and that immediately drained the confidence.

After the calamity that was Almunia in goal for Arsenal, its hardly fair to say that Arsenal had a monopoly in luck.

kida

rarnes1 wrote: »

That's spot on. No confidence at all. The team needs a few wins on the trot to get it back starting Wednesday.

they don't look like getting that though. If Wigan were to score early midweek I wouldn't fancy you to come back. Even a 0-0 at half time would cause the nerves to set in again.

gosplan

Yesterday seemed really down to confidence and a bit of bad luck for me.

Now that all the players seem fit, I reckon Liverpool will go on a decent run.

The only worry is that Aqualini didn't look very good. He is just settling in but he needs to perform because Liverpool simply won't create enough with both Mascherano and Lucas on the pitch.

jaykay74

gosplan wrote: »

Yesterday seemed really down to confidence and a bit of bad luck for me.

I didn't get to see all of the 2nd half as my stream went to sh!t but is some of it also down to Gerard and Torres not having 90 minutes in them yet ?

I guess it will take a couple of weeks before the pair of them finish games strongly although from what I saw Gerard wasn't great throughout.

kida

kida wrote: »

they don't look like getting that though. If Wigan were to score early midweek I wouldn't fancy you to come back. Even a 0-0 at half time would cause the nerves to set in again.

I'd tend to agree. It's like they need a 2 goal cushion to settle as they did against Everton.

I feel that a 2nd goal in the first half yesterday for us could have killed the game as we were playing well. Hindsight is great though

Ush1

Thought the game really could have went either way. Both teams are abit tender at the moment but Arsenal got the rub of the green and a fantastic goal from Arshavin. Liverpool should have had a penalty though.

kida

from F365 and something I thought at the time

Regarding Arsenal's equaliser: Glen Johnson should have reacted better. He also should have been goalside of the ball when Samir Nasri crossed. Watch replays again and there was no reason - such as a covering attacker on his side of the pitch - for him not to have tracked back Theo Walcott and thus been in a better position from which to clear the danger. As Nasri broke clear, Johnson dawdled on the turn and then trotted towards goal. That was his real mistake.

Prufrock

Liverpool were good in the first half. They had a high tempo and hassled Aresnal all over the pitch. However, in the second half did they even register a shot on target!? Shocking.

Quick question. When Rafa brough on Aqua was Lucas the one droping deep to get the ball from the full backs and start the play?
Lucas played well but he's a very side to side player when he has the ball. Aqua should be dropping off and picking out forward passes for Torres and, later on, Ngog. He's very good at that kinda thing. Also if he starts behind the ball theres a better chance for him to latch onto a rebound and hit one of those thunderbolts he can produce every now and again.

kida

kida wrote: »

from F365 and something I thought at the time

I wouldn't blame Johnson for the first.

If he had time to get out of the way he would have !!

kida

rarnes1 wrote: »

I wouldn't blame Johnson for the first.

If he had time to get out of the way he would have !!

read what it said - the problem was caused earlier than that

OPENROAD

bayviewclose wrote: »

Silly comment. Lee Dixon's analysis (particulary of first half was very good). two keys to the game. Poor refereeing (and openroadit doesn't matter one iota about past refereeing decisisions, we are talking about this game) and Benny's slack play for Arsenals second goal. Yossi has been very good for us in past but he never closed down for cross which led to winner while also giving initial possession away

And for Liverpools goal, terrible mistake/goalkeeping from Almunia.

My point was re MOTD coverage and particularly Alan Hansen analysis and analysis in the past, though as a ex Liverpool player I suppose he was upset.

NinjaTruncs

I loved his comment about the liverpool player who "could have gone down" in the box without getting challenged.

Spiritoftheseventies

agreed Hansens comment on that was silly but Dixon did a good job on the analysis .