Vitamin D

Mentalmiss

I have had a problem getting a supplement as many studies have shown that D2 (the veg one) is not very effective and that D3 is the only one to take.
I would not take D3 that was animal derived.
I have found one that is made from the lanolin in sheep's wool and I find that less objectionable so I have been taking it recently.
It is NutriCology SuperD3 vege caps.
Unless you work in the fields all day you need to supplement as our skin can not get enough sun these days.

sweet-rasmus

interesting information. i see that the D2 one is the one in my Veg1 multivitamin.

can you link to any of these studies? still, 'not as effective' still means you get it, right?

Tar.Aldarion

I believe no as effective means it is not as bioavailable, i.e. you won't get most of it into your system. This is why eating eggs raw, which people did for 'health' purposes is silly, it is much less bioavailable.

I didn't think you needed a lot of sun to get enough Vitamin D.

Sunbeds are the cure for getting d3 :-p


Also I looked this up over a year ago and came across contradictions.

Healthy individuals absorb cholecalciferol and ergocalciferol approximately equally well, and while initial reports suggested that vitamin D3 was more potent in humans, the same journal has published newer research which contradicts those initial reports. The human body does not tolerate vitamin D3 as well as vitamin D2, limiting the maximum efficacy of vitamin D3 supplementation compared to vitamin D2. Cholecalciferol is synthesized by the bone marrow of the skeletal system. Hepatic synthesis of 25-hydroxycholecalciferol is only loosely regulated, and blood levels of this molecule largely reflect the amount of vitamin D produced in the skin or ingested. In contrast, the activity of 1-alpha-hydroxylase in the kidney is tightly regulated and serves as the major control point in production of the active hormone.

Cholecalciferol is the form of vitamin D normally added during fortification of foods. Cholecalciferol is produced industrially by the irradiation of 7-dehydrocholesterol extracted from lanolin found in sheep's wool. In products where animal products are not desired, the alternative is to use ergocalciferol (also known as vitamin D2) derived from the fungal sterol ergosterol.

And it matters how different the bioavailablilty is. If you are getting 66% of what is eaten or whatever number it is.

Sapsorrow

It's not a matter of bioavailability, both forms are present in the body and can be absorbed from the digestive tract. By having both an active and an inactive form of the vitamin the body is able to closely regulate circulating vitamin D levels according to need by inconverting the two forms. Vitamin D3 is simply the physiologically active form. Your body can convert the D2 form to D3 via the hydroxylase enzyme in the liver so supplementing with D2 isn't a problem in terms of absorbability it's potency that may be an issue. I don' think it's anything too much to worry about myself as your liver should be able to handle the conversion anyway.

Tar.Aldarion

Oh I think I was mixing up bioavailability with potency, the quote itself says theya bsorb them equally well. Although several of teh papers comment on bioavailability saying D2 was less or equal and I never knew.

Do you not need sunshine to produce D3 and that is why some people say that you need supplements this far north, due to lack of potency of D2?



Oh so you don't need to make D3 is the point as the liver makes both D2 and D3 into 25-hydroxyvitamin D aand 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D

Sapsorrow

Ya there used to be concern about the bioavailability alright but I think thats been found to be a non-issue now.
Pretty much ya vitamin D3 is made under the skin when exposed to UV radiation, D2 is made by plants.

kumate_champ07

sweet-rasmus wrote: »

interesting information. i see that the D2 one is the one in my Veg1 multivitamin.

this is not a dig at you but why would you need a multivitamin if you have a balance vegan diet? I know you would prob need to supplement d2 and iron but what else do you need from pills?

sweet-rasmus

that is a personal question and not a discussion for this thread :rolleyes:

kumate_champ07

sweet-rasmus wrote: »

that is a personal question and not a discussion for this thread :rolleyes:

I dont understand what you mean, isnt every question asked a 'personal question'?

Tar.Aldarion

There's a difference between personal and something that is personal and private. What one person will share is not the same as what another person will share.

In answer to your question for a generic vegan, nothing they need from a vitamin. If they don't eat well perhaps they will need something and a good quality brand will probably serve them well I imagine. Perhaps theyy don't want to eat the things that yield that vitamin? Perhaps medical? Dunno, any range of reasons.

kumate_champ07

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

There's a difference between personal and something that is personal and private. What one person will share is not the same as what another person will share.

In answer to your question for a generic vegan, nothing they need from a vitamin. If they don't eat well perhaps they will need something and a good quality brand will probably serve them well I imagine. Perhaps theyy don't want to eat the things that yield that vitamin? Perhaps medical? Dunno, any range of reasons.

fine

kumate_champ07

sweet-rasmus wrote: »

that is a personal question and not a discussion for this thread :rolleyes:

sorry I didnt realise you were the person I had asked the question to, just noticed again when I re-read

Mentalmiss

Vitamin D2 vs. vitamin D3
An interesting question came up on the Track Your Plaque Member Forum about vitamin D2 vs. vitamin D3. This often comes up among our patients, as well.

Vitamin D is measured in the blood as 25-OH-vitamin D and is distinct from 1,25-diOH-vitamin D, a kidney measure, a test you do not need unless you have kidney failure.

The human form of vitamin D is cholecalciferol and is usually obtained via activation of a precursor molecule in the skin on activation by the sun. You can also take cholecalciferol and it increases blood levels of 25-hydroxy vitamin D reliably.

However, there is a cheap, plant-sourced, alternative to vitamin D3, called vitamin D2, or ergocalciferol. D2 has far less effect in the body. Taking D2 or ergocalciferol orally is an extremely inefficient way to get D. Unfortunately, it's the form often used in milk and many supplements, even the prescription form of D. About half the multivitamins and calcium supplements I've looked at contain ergocalciferol rather than cholecalciferol.

Taking vitamin D2 yields very little conversion to the effective D3. This particular issues is maddening, as the USDA requires dairy farmers to add 100 units of vitamin D to milk, and D2 is often used. In other words, the D in many dairy products barely works at all. There are many children who rely on D from dairy products who are at risk for rickets and are not getting the D they need from dairy products because of this cost-saving switch. Do not rely on milk for vitamin D for your children.

D2 or ergocalciferol is often included in the blood measures of vitamin D along with vitamin D3. The only reason it's checked with blood work is to ensure "compliance,", i.e., see whether or not you're taking a prescribed ergocalciferol. Beyond this, it has no usefulness.

25-OH-vitamin D3, or cholecalciferol, is both the blood measure and the supplement you need. This is the one that packs all the punch. Keep in mind also that it is the oil-based gelcap you want, with more consistent and efficient absorption. Tablets usually barely work at all, even if it contains cholecalciferol. Most people who take calcium tablets with D, or multivitamin with D, not only are getting a powdered form of D, but also in trivial doses. It's the pure vitamin D3, cholecalciferol, in gelcap form you want if you desire all the spectacular benefits of vitamin D.
Taken from the following site
http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2007/04/vitamin-d2-vs-vitamin-d3.html

Mentalmiss

A friend of a friend (I know) has been working on VitD research at a N.Y. hospital for some time and says that D2 is ineffective. I have been watching for an acceptable form of D3 for a few years now and am happy to have found it.
I should also point out that when it is made by sunshine on the skin it takes a time (from 24 to 48 hours) to make and if you use soap and wash the oils off your skin in the meantime then the effect is lost. If you have been in the sun you should only use water to wash and try to let your oils intact.

A lack of Vit D is now being tied (as a contributor) to many diseases.
I think that it is evident that we need it as there is no other reason for our skin lightening the further man got from the equator. That was in a time when we would have spent most of the day outside in the sun but we still were not getting enough when we had darker skin.