Schumacher return looking increasingly likely

Stargazer7

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Wasn't Schumacher blamed for driving millions of viewers away from the sport in the domineering years? It might get the tifosi excited, but it doesn't take much to excite a ferrari fan, paint anything red and they're happy. If the past 3 years of different drivers fighting it out all year isn't making you happy, I fail to see how one driver, whose teammate isn't allowed to compete with him, walking away with all the races is an improvement.

With your comment about ferrari fans it's hardly worth replying as you clearly don't know much about them but as for domineering the sport...there are plenty of other sports which are dominated by one personality and people don't moan about it as they get to appreciate the raw talent of the individual.

Besides that...while the past few seasons have been competitive...I'd prefer to see it competitive with lots of drivers driving very well rather than it being competitive as a lot are making mistakes.

Slutmonkey57b

If you don't remember the years 2000-2004 you'll have missed that TV audiences deserted the sport, as did media attention, casual fans and anyone who didn't enjoy watching the same driver walk away from the field every weekend, with a faithful lap dog in tow. Martin Brundle, who commentated on all those races, describes it as unutterably boring, and he's a racing driver who's used to running round the same track for hours on end looking at the same view. Yes he dominated the sport with his talent and the team around him. It was very very boring as a result. they even changed the scoring system to try and prevent it happening. It didn't work, and audiences stayed away.

As to making mistakes - last year was a landmark year with most races having more than 15 or 16 drivers finishing. The only drivers making mistakes in races were rookies. was there a single race where the backmarkers were 5 or 6 laps down, like they used to be in the "good old days"? No. Teams all the way up and down the grid were able to compete for podiums and wins. That's racing.

Again, people are bashing modern F1 drivers and teams when the obvious information tells you the exact opposite. The past few years was much better racing than when Ferrari was dominating (unless you're a Ferrari fan).

enzo7

I was giving you a fair say until you mentioned martin brundle, with all due respect his as bitter as you are over schumachers success oh i forgot your not bitter. Tbh i dont really care if the casual fan is watching or not, i can only speak for myself but as a genuine f1 fan who has been going to races since i was 5, I would choose out and out talent over a competitive race of lesser talented guys because if that was all i wanted i could just go down to mondello every wkend. As great as schumacher was there is no gurantee he will run away with the title next season if he does come back. I really dont think the casual fans need worry.

shamrock321

I seen him race and win at Hockenheim 2006, his last home race! Great athmosphere that day but I sure Monza the same year was one of the best races ever!

thegoth

Stargazer7 wrote: »

Well despite calling Schumi boring for having a wife and kids and being a good family man, he has been quite complimentary to Schumi in general since he left F1. I genuinely think he has a high regard for him.

Its more than that. I think Schmuacher is an idol of Eddies. Perhaps the only one he has. Even while he was an active driver, he openly admitted that Schmuacher was faster than him, and everyone else, but he was the second fastest driver on the grid

Joneser

An interesting read here about schumachers almost certain return now:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-1236221/Why-Michael-Schumacher-return-Formula-One--despite-red-faces-Mercedes.html

rohatch

I hope he comes back.

I was at melbourne 2000, dominant ferraris, 1st jaguar race, ran on to the track at the end, watching some loon trying to climb from the grid over the fence onto the ferrari pit wall booth, with loads of security waiting for him, and the crowds cheering. What a venue.

Mika passed within 10 feet of me on the back of a scooter after his retirement and boy did he looked pissed.

FerrariRed

Good reading in the article. I wonder when an official announcement will be made? I understand there's an official medical to be passed, and with the disappointment that arose following the abandoned comeback for Massa, they'll want to be 100% sure of everything before the big announcement. Early in the new year then to confirm the worst-kept secret in F1?

enzo7

There is unlikley to be an anouncement till the new year at this stage id imagine, gees i dont want to get my hopes up , do ye really think it going to happen.

EvilMonkey

Its looking increasing likely, and harder not to get excited about it.
Looks like he would be on less money than they were going to give Button, I hope he wipes the floor with him, if it happens.

I think it would be good for Rosberg to learn from the master, it didn't seem to do Massa any harm.

enzo7

I dont think money was ever an issue, he will be just happy to get a decent car under him.

I said that a few weeks ago if nothing else it would be fantastic for rosberg , massa is a diffrent driver because of schu.

Slutmonkey57b

enzo7 wrote: »

I was giving you a fair say until you mentioned martin brundle, with all due respect his as bitter as you are over schumachers success oh i forgot your not bitter. Tbh i dont really care if the casual fan is watching or not, i can only speak for myself but as a genuine f1 fan who has been going to races since i was 5, I would choose out and out talent over a competitive race of lesser talented guys because if that was all i wanted i could just go down to mondello every wkend. As great as schumacher was there is no gurantee he will run away with the title next season if he does come back. I really dont think the casual fans need worry.

Martin Brundle wasn't expressing any bitterness over Schumacher's success, he merely pointed out that watching, or commentating on those races was unbearably boring. Which it was. Even my dad stopped watching them.

You're also accusing me of bitterness over Schumacher's success. I have no bitterness at all towards his success, in fact I've mentioned several times that he's one of the greatest drivers of all time. How good he was does not change whether watching a processional pole-to-flag victory in practically every race of the season from a man who builds up a 40 second lead in 10 laps is boring or not. Making disparaging remarks about the current crop of drivers, one of whom beat Schumacher two years in a row despite several dubious FIA decision limiting his campaign is both unjustified and ironic given your quickness to assume that anyone making a (factual) criticism of the Schumacher years of F1 is "bitter".

When you can form a coherent, punctuated sentence then I'll pay more attention to whether your judgement of what I write here has any merit. There is a dictionary and spelling checker available for Firefox which may help you in this regard.

rohatch

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Martin Brundle wasn't expressing any bitterness over Schumacher's success, he merely pointed out that watching, or commentating on those races was unbearably boring. Which it was. Even my dad stopped watching them.

You're also accusing me of bitterness over Schumacher's success. I have no bitterness at all towards his success, in fact I've mentioned several times that he's one of the greatest drivers of all time. How good he was does not change whether watching a processional pole-to-flag victory in practically every race of the season from a man who builds up a 40 second lead in 10 laps is boring or not. Making disparaging remarks about the current crop of drivers, one of whom beat Schumacher two years in a row despite several dubious FIA decision limiting his campaign is both unjustified and ironic given your quickness to assume that anyone making a (factual) criticism of the Schumacher years of F1 is "bitter".

When you can form a coherent, punctuated sentence then I'll pay more attention to whether your judgement of what I write here has any merit. There is a dictionary and spelling checker available for Firefox which may help you in this regard.

Schumacher in Brazil 06. Almost gets lapped by massa yet still dominates the race and ends up 4th. Who else could have done that. A 2nd place while stuck in 5 th gear.

Ability to spin off the track at high speeds and casually make his way back to the race track because he had done a full rec of the track and knew where all the escape roads were.

6 seconds a lap faster (opening laps) than anyone in a wet german race.

Most dominant driver at spa.

Imola car control
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eVyHkMny7c Imola car control


It will be great to see him back. I may even go to Monaco this year.

Slutmonkey57b

Again, who's denying the man's talent? Not me. But Schumacher = Good for the sport isn't necessarily the case.

EvilMonkey

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Again, who's denying the man's talent? Not me. But Schumacher = Good for the sport isn't necessarily the case.

I often heard it said tat the Schumacher dominance drove fans away but any evidence was anecdotal.
Anyway even if true, that was then and this is now when Schumacher coming back first to replace Massa and now for Merc seems to have sparked a lot of peoples interest.

So Schumacher = Bad for the sport probably isn't necessarily the case either.

enzo7

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Martin Brundle wasn't expressing any bitterness over Schumacher's success, he merely pointed out that watching, or commentating on those races was unbearably boring. Which it was. Even my dad stopped watching them.

You're also accusing me of bitterness over Schumacher's success. I have no bitterness at all towards his success, in fact I've mentioned several times that he's one of the greatest drivers of all time. How good he was does not change whether watching a processional pole-to-flag victory in practically every race of the season from a man who builds up a 40 second lead in 10 laps is boring or not. Making disparaging remarks about the current crop of drivers, one of whom beat Schumacher two years in a row despite several dubious FIA decision limiting his campaign is both unjustified and ironic given your quickness to assume that anyone making a (factual) criticism of the Schumacher years of F1 is "bitter".

When you can form a coherent, punctuated sentence then I'll pay more attention to whether your judgement of what I write here has any merit. There is a dictionary and spelling checker available for Firefox which may help you in this regard.

It might be an idea to read the stickey at the top of the page, i think you might have broken every rule on it in the last few days:rolleyes:

Frank Bullitt

EvilMonkey wrote: »

I often heard it said tat the Schumacher dominance drove fans away but any evidence was anecdotal.
Anyway even if true, that was then and this is now when Schumacher coming back first to replace Massa and now for Merc seems to have sparked a lot of peoples interest.

So Schumacher = Bad for the sport probably isn't necessarily the case either.

But the fact that so many people are just talking about it is good for the sport no? so i can only seeing it being a good thing if /when he returns.

enzo7

I cant understand it either, i feel very lucky growing up watching such hugely talented sports men in loeb, man utd and schumacher i would happily watch them all day even if they won every rally match or race. For me thats what sport is all about watching the most gifed display their talent.

EvilMonkey

Gintonious wrote: »

But the fact that so many people are just talking about it is good for the sport no? so i can only seeing it being a good thing if /when he returns.

Yeah that's what i was trying to say

FerrariRed

I would definitely think it's a good thing for the sport for him to come back, even people who know nothing about Formula 1 know the name and reputation of Schumi. I'd imagine it'd bring a lot of people to the TV audiences and even the races, especially if he's only back for a year.

Kevski

Luca di Montezemelo has given an interview which pretty much confirms that Schumacher is going to Mercedes. It sounds like the medical is the only thing standing in the way now. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8420601.stm

Sounds like Montezemelo is really struggling to come to terms with this !

BoardsRanger

Kevski wrote: »

Luca di Montezemelo has given an interview which pretty much confirms that Schumacher is going to Mercedes. It sounds like the medical is the only thing standing in the way now. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8420601.stm

Sounds like Montezemelo is really struggling to come to terms with this !

Interesting "Twin" analogy. Perhaps some of the idiots on here who insisted the reason Michael did not replace Massa was because he was too slow should read the article above.
The 2010 season is shaping up nicely indeed.

EvilMonkey

I would say there is a few in Ferrari that aren't too happy about this. Loosing the brand association between Schumacher and Ferrari will probably hurt them financially in the years to come.
And I would guess in hindsight di Montezemelo regrets pushing Schumacher out in 06 too.

He can only blame himself for that, It will be great to have Schumacher back with Brawn too

frostie500

EvilMonkey wrote: »

I would say there is a few in Ferrari that aren't too happy about this. Loosing the brand association between Schumacher and Ferrari will probably hurt them financially in the years to come.
And I would guess in hindsight di Montezemelo regrets pushing Schumacher out in 06 too.

He can only blame himself for that, It will be great to have Schumacher back with Brawn too

I was just about to bring that point up.
If Schumi does race he will retire as a Mercedes Benz driver and the last image of him forever will be in a silver arror. How Ferrari can let that happen is beyond me. Pay Massa whatever it takes to say 'I've a headache from the crash' and give Schumi the drive for the year(how much longer will he be likely to race?), Schumi retires as a Ferrari driver as he was meant to do and they keep the brand association.
It's the same situation as in MotoGP with Rossi, everyone wants to be his last manufacturer and to be able to use him in ad campaigns for the next 40 years, see what Yamaha are doing with Ago. By letting him go to Merc Ferrari will lose out big time in the future as far as having Schumi as an abassador for future campaigns

Slutmonkey57b

That's exactly right - Ferrari's actions here are very strange from a business point of view, but I would say they're simply aware (or Wili Weber has reminded them) just how quickly their image would suffer if they were portrayed as petulant hot-blooded Italians acting childishly in preventing the return of the Master to the sport. It will certainly damage them, but so many fans and media outlets are already in favour of it there's little they can do. Not to mention there's a small mop-headed old car salesman who will have had a word in their shell like about what they'd be costing him.

I was quite looking forward to the season as it was before all this speculation raised its head, what it will be like if he does get the medical OK and it goes ahead is a bit uncertain. Maybe people will feel different about Ross Brawn winning the first 6 or 7 races if it's Schumacher doing the winning than when Button the apparently unworthy was doing it?

I give Button far more kudos for risking the whole of his reputation by going up against Hamilton in his own team than I do Schumacher for returning to a team he knows is going to win and where he won't compete with the other driver. Still maintain it sucks balls to be Nico Rosberg right now though.

Top Dog

EvilMonkey wrote: »

And I would guess in hindsight di Montezemelo regrets pushing Schumacher out in 06 too.

He can only blame himself for that, It will be great to have Schumacher back with Brawn too

At the risk of possibly going OT - can you tell me more about Montezemelo pushing Schumacher out? Must have missed that so genuinely interested to hear/read more.

FerrariRed

At the time that Schumacher announced his retirement, there was a consensus he was being leaned on to make that decision - as Montezemelo wanted Raikkonen lined up for Ferrari in 2007. While thoughts of retirement were definitely already in his head, it is believed he was 'pushed' towards it, whether by being offered unfavourable terms for the next season or something else, who knows. (A pretty bad move by Montezemelo if true.)

"Schumacher retired at the end of the 2006 season. The circumstances of his retirement have always been hotly debated. For all the world, it looks like he and his people were pushed out the door at Ferrari in a power struggle. Although Schumacher remained a consultant, the likes of Byrne, Brawn and Jean Todt moved on."

rohatch

FerrariRed wrote: »

At the time that Schumacher announced his retirement, there was a consensus he was being leaned on to make that decision - as Montezemelo wanted Raikkonen lined up for Ferrari in 2007. While thoughts of retirement were definitely already in his head, it is believed he was 'pushed' towards it, whether by being offered unfavourable terms for the next season or something else, who knows. (A pretty bad move by Montezemelo if true.)

"Schumacher retired at the end of the 2006 season. The circumstances of his retirement have always been hotly debated. For all the world, it looks like he and his people were pushed out the door at Ferrari in a power struggle. Although Schumacher remained a consultant, the likes of Byrne, Brawn and Jean Todt moved on."

They were going to put massa back as a tester and give Kimi equal status with MS. Kimi is amazingly quick but in a turn off your brain kind of way, watch kimi in Spa, with Sauber losing grip at Pouhon 2001 and somehow keeping the car on track, and again when he was in quali ignoring the engine blow up in front of him after eau rouge, and casually saying I saw the oil line and went the other side.

MS would have beaten Kimi as equal no. 1's

thegoth

Its been widely reported that Schmuacher wanted to drive in 2007 but would not commit beyond that. Montezemelo wanted a commitment beyond that and would not grant him a one year contract

FerrariRed

rohatch wrote: »

They were going to put massa back as a tester and give Kimi equal status with MS. Kimi is amazingly quick but in a turn off your brain kind of way, watch kimi in Spa, with Sauber losing grip at Pouhon 2001 and somehow keeping the car on track, and again when he was in quali ignoring the engine blow up in front of him after eau rouge, and casually saying I saw the oil line and went the other side.

MS would have beaten Kimi as equal no. 1's

I'd never heard that 'equal status' for Kimi and Schumi was on the table. 100% agree Schumi would have beaten him - Raikkonen had great raw speed and instinct, but seemed to rely on that too much. Schumi had all that plus was willing to put the work in.

Joneser

Another small update from the times, not much that we don't already know tho tbh but thought id link for anyone that might want to read it:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article6964463.ece

EvilMonkey

Top Dog wrote: »

At the risk of possibly going OT - can you tell me more about Montezemelo pushing Schumacher out? Must have missed that so genuinely interested to hear/read more.

Pretty much what the everyone else have said, it was widely rumoured that Schumacher wasn't ready to retire or hadn't fully made up his mind at the time. Actually the way it came about is fairly similar to the way Kimi was replaced by Alonso

enzo7

How is it similar to the kimi situation.
Ferrari wanted schumacher on a long term contract he wasnt willing to commit longer than a 1yr deal. They couldnt agree so schuey quit, it was on the cards anyway but if he had got a 1yr deal he would prob would have agreed. Ferrari sacked kimi because they didnt want him,they didnt want him so badly they wasted £17mil buying him out of his contract.

They only signed kimi in the first because they need a top driver on a long term contract and there was a high possibility schuey didnt want a long term contract even at the stage. In hignsight its easy to criticise montezemelo but i dont think anyone believed that massa was going to out drive kimi as easily as he did and kimi would turn into the lazy waste of space he did.

EvilMonkey

Similarity's:
Kimi wanted to stay at Ferrari for another year
Schumacher wanted a 1 year contract
Massa had a contract for 2007
Massa has a contract for 2010
Rumours about Kimi moving to Ferrari started before Schumacher retirement was announced.
Rumours about Alonsos move to Ferrari started before Kimi's retirement was announced.
Montezemelo wanted Kimi and got him.
Montezemelo wanted Alonso and got him.

I said it was similar not the same, no need to get upset every Kimi's name is mentioned.

By the way i always rated Massa as a top driver. :P

enzo7

Im not upset just dont think you can compare kimi sacking to schumacher quitting.

1) massa didnt have a contract at the time
2)ferrari only wanted kimi because they knew they couldnt get schuey on a long term deal, Ferrari wanted alonso because they wanted to replace kimi they didnt want him on any kind of contract hence them paying him £17 mil to destroy the one he had.
3) schueys retirement/kimi sacking were widely rumoured for mth before they were announced to it only natural they would be talk of a new driver.

Andrew76

Sounds like it's a done deal now: BBC Sport

Brilliant news.

Frank Bullitt

Andrew76 wrote: »

Sounds like it's a done deal now: BBC Sport

Brilliant news.

Beat me to it,shaking here,my idol is back!!!!!

chris_c

Brill news cant wait till next year now

Andrew76

Gintonious wrote: »

my idol is back!!!!!

Same here, just hoping the car is competitive. Have a feeling the first chance he gets he'll put a move or two on the youngsters to show them he's serious about it.

Frank Bullitt

Andrew76 wrote: »

Same here, just hoping the car is competitive. Have a feeling the first chance he gets he'll put a move or two on the youngsters to show them he's serious about it.

Hope so yeah

enzo7

OH MY GOD!!!

Best christmas pressie ever!!!

So which races are yr going to nxt season:D

Joneser

Great News!!! Gotting start planning for a race weekend, just in time for xmas

enzo7

apparently it will be announced tom:D

homer90

Just been announced on rte news on 2 .. It's a done deal !!!
Happy days !!
Roll on march 12 2010

Koloman

It hasn't been the same without him. I might start watching it again!

mickdw

Class, hopefully the car is somewhere near the front. Should be good season then.

Slutmonkey57b

Now all we need is for Legard to get the sack and we're sorted!

BoardsRanger

Best news iv had in awhile! Roll on March!!!

brownacid

Not really a micheal fan but this is great news. It means that hamilton is definately going to be chewed up and spat out. Also another opp for alonso to prove how much better he is that micky. Just a pity kimi isn here, 05/06 were my fav season of the last ten years

EvilMonkey

Excellent news, cant wait.