A little advice please

bernard0368

The wife went to a 40th party the other day where a present of framed photo was given to the birthday girl. However the image was one of mine. This image is not on any website and was only printed once in a shop. On asking around she found out that the giver of the present work/manages the same shop where I got the print done. She even managed to get a copy of the image on her mobile to be sure and yes it is a 100% the same image. There is also one very telling detail in the photo.
So what the hell do I do.

Rb

Go ballistic. That is absolutely disgusting behaviour.

I work part-time in a photolab and would never dream of touching a customers photos, even though I've access to them as they're stored in the main computer for up to 7 days. That's really, really bad form and I'd be looking for said employee to be relieved of their position immediately.

I think you should go into the shop, with your evidence and ask to speak to the manager and the employee together. If it's a retail chain, be prepared to follow it up the chain of command a bit.

Edit: Just saw that you said she manages there, is there a manager above her available? I'm really appalled by this. Theft at its finest.

bernard0368

Rb Go ballistic, the wife hasn't let me out of her sight all day.
The descrption of the giver leads me to think she is one of the owners or at least the wife of. I dont think the shop is part of a chain but I would have to check that out further.

Rb

Invoice them heavily for the use of the image and take them to court if they don't pay up so

Slidinginfinity

+1 to everything RB said.

CabanSail

That's just so wrong. They obviously have little regard for their customers.

Before you act though, how does your wife feel about this? No use being right & getting the wife off side. If she's OK with it then go for them & make them pay for the use of your Photo.

njburke

OP,

Are you certain this is a print reproduction of your shot ?

If so here is what I'ld do. This is standard practice for Intellectual Property.

I wouldn't assume this is the only instance, it may be the only instance you are aware of, incidentally the more there are out there the better for you, you might want to consider sitting on this while, let them run off a few more, ideally they'ld sell or attempt to sell them. A sales receipt for one would be splendid thing to have.

Pull the details for the print shop from the CRO, the issue you have here is with the print shop, not its employees, inform its directors of the infringement, but only after you can prove that someone in their employ replicated your image at least once. If you want to communicate through a solictor, do.

At the very least you've earned an option of a lot of printing.

bernard0368

Cabansail, The wife is very upset about this but for once she is the one with the calm head.

NJ Burke, Yes 100% positive as I said this has one very telling detail which is very personal and and has huge sentimental value to us. There couldn't be a similar image out there. That is why it never was and never will be on the web.
How would one find out if there are more images out there, I thought of that but have no idea of how to go around finding out.
As for the option of a lot of prints, the way I feel on this both the hurt and anger I would be afraid what would happen if I went into that shop. Even after two nights sleeping on it.

Fenster

Be sure it is your work. When I first entered photography, one of my very first images (this) came out almost identical to the work of a local professional photographer by virtue of us stopping at the same spot within five minutes of one another.

If it is yours, go ballistic.

njburke

Bernard,
To contradict the advice of others in the thread. Don't go balistic.

This could actually be or could be claimed as an 'honest mistake',so many many files/negs....

I assume you have the print they gave you along with the invoice /receipt for the printing, a first article. After that, perhaps someone attending the party was so taken by your work that they may wish to own copy of their own, they went to the printer and said "I saw this photograph at so and sos party recently,its a cracker, can I buy one". If they end up walking away with another instance and a receipt, then the print shop is systematically selling your work.

If its an honest mistake,settle for printing, it won't happen again.
If its exploitation of your work, then its up to you as to what you want to do about it. If you just want them to stop reproducing your work, go in, talk to a director, and as coldly as you can tell him to cease reproduction of your work, do not ask him to stop , tell him. Ask him for an explanation/apology, if thats what you want. If you want some guy on the dole for Christmas because his innovation backfired, fair enough. Either way a director will do whatever is in the best interests of the print business.

As I'm still thawing the fingers out, damn those metal bodied cameras, I know the effort that goes into taking a mediocre shot let alone a good one.

smelltheglove

I am astounded that this actually happened and makes me hope that it hasnt happened to anyone else. As above, don't go ballistic, losing the head won't do you any favours, go above her head, even if it means to her husband if he in fact owns the business. I would go prepared though, print out details on copyright infringement etc and be prepared to defend yourself to the nines.

On someone else requesting to the buy the image, I would be inclined to send someone in and see if it was on offer. Highly unlikely but the more proof the better. If you dont have your printing receipt dont worry, you still have proof the image is yours and I'm sure you have no doubt in your mind anyone else could have the same image. If you have the raw still bring that along with you on disc along with the finalised jpeg as proof that it was infact your image.

I know it is very irritating when people take your photos, sometimes you have to turn a blind eye to pals of pals copying your images for facebook or whatever but as this was done via a print shop this is serious, we are meant to trust those stores with our images, I know the local guy I use for my small prints gives quite a personal service, lovely fella but I'd hate to think he was even looking at the images I was printing never mind bringing them hoome with him.

bernard0368

I am honestly at a loss in what I should do about this but to explain a little more. The image is mainly a landscape with a person(family) in the backround taken upstate New York last winter. 20mins after the picture was taken there was a tragic accident.
The print was done in August and as I said it was only the one. This is December! While normally I would be a bit annoyed and let it go, this time it goes a little further and has caused a lot of distress.
A mutual friend of the girl who received the gift has talked to her and she is upset about it and wishes to return the image to us. Whilst I don't want to see anyone on the dole but I feel that this has to be dealt with it.
If I go to a printer to get something printed I would hope that no copies exist there after to see a image appear 3mths later is a bit disconcerting.

smelltheglove

bernard0368 wrote: »

I am honestly at a loss in what I should do about this but to explain a little more. The image is mainly a landscape with a person(family) in the backround taken upstate New York last winter. 20mins after the picture was taken there was a tragic accident.
The print was done in August and as I said it was only the one. This is December! While normally I would be a bit annoyed and let it go, this time it goes a little further and has caused a lot of distress.
A mutual friend of the girl who received the gift has talked to her and she is upset about it and wishes to return the image to us. Whilst I don't want to see anyone on the dole but I feel that this has to be dealt with it.
If I go to a printer to get something printed I would hope that no copies exist there after to see a image appear 3mths later is a bit disconcerting.

Thats a terrible situation Bernard and sorry about the conditions of the image.

Dont let it lie, I am sure what they have done has broken more than just copyright laws, I mean surely they legally cannot keep your image on file. I would do as above, send someone in to see if they print it one more time. There is no way you can let this lie, if they have kept your image and used it it is also likely they have done this with other people also and is scandalous. I would follow it through without a doubt.

32finn

i would pull no punches with someone like that! if it is the owners wife who gave it i feel you will get nowhere with him. i would say nothing and have my solicitor deal with them from the outset, at least that way you have a record of everything that happens in case you do end up taking this further!

Slidinginfinity

I can understand that you might not want to, but the name of the shop would be appreciated so we all can avoid it.

pixbyjohn

This is a very unfortunate thing to happen. The first thing I would do is ask the print shop for a copy of its terms and conditions, then take it from there.
The detail is in the small print.

njburke

Bernard, I wouldn't ask for terms and conditions after the fact, if you didn't sign them before you handed the source over, then they don't exist.
A term sheet that states the company reserves the right to plagerise the work of its customers with or without consideration, isn't relative either as its illegal. However, if you signed any assignment to them, thats significant.

Given what you've said about the mutual friend and the recipient of the print, I imagine its only a matter of time before someone from the printshop is in contact with you.

WedPhoto

There's only one solution to this: SUE THEM. For copyright infringement! the second you took that photo copyright came into effect and it has became your intelectual property.

It is clear the shop has no regards for you or your images since they printed the image without your consent.

Just to give you an example, i've recently heard of a case of copyright infringement in Galway where the guilty party had to pay 800 euro for the use, without permission, of some image...and it didn't even go to court, just some letters from sollicitors.

Who knows how many other people's images they have used. if you let this go unnoticed they will continue doing this.

good luck

bernard0368

Thanks every one, After talking to the parents today about this my father has contacted a barrister friend who has suggested we take them for copyright infringement and breach of customer confidentiality and something to do with expectations of service. I am not prepared to name the shop just yet, however the barrister has suggested that this can happen after a resolution has been reached. I hope to name and shame them in the future purely to cause the a fraction of the hurt they caused the wife.

Rb

bernard0368 wrote: »

Thanks every one, After talking to the parents today about this my father has contacted a barrister friend who has suggested we take them for copyright infringement and breach of customer confidentiality and something to do with expectations of service. I am not prepared to name the shop just yet, however the barrister has suggested that this can happen after a resolution has been reached. I hope to name and shame them in the future purely to cause the a fraction of the hurt they caused the wife.

Great news Bernard, do update us as things progress, they deserve everything that happens to them from here in.

CabanSail

I think that you are doing the right thing. What is different about this case, to other situations we have discussed in the past, is that this time the damages are not fiscal. A Photograph can hold very special meaning to people and to see that image used inappropriately can cause distress. Sending an invoice for the use of the image has no meaning in this instance.

Good luck with it & keep us informed (as you feel appropriate) of how things progress.

smelltheglove

Thanks for the update and do keep us informed on future happenings with this. Again sorry to hear it caused distress, I really hope the people in question learn from their mistakes, as above breach of customer confidentiality, I knew they were breaking more than just copyright laws, just couldnt think of the term for the life of me.

pixbyjohn

bernard0368 wrote: »

Thanks every one, After talking to the parents today about this my father has contacted a barrister friend who has suggested we take them for copyright infringement and breach of customer confidentiality and something to do with expectations of service. I am not prepared to name the shop just yet, however the barrister has suggested that this can happen after a resolution has been reached. I hope to name and shame them in the future purely to cause the a fraction of the hurt they caused the wife.

Is there any update on this ?

bernard0368

They are talking to my fathers friend the barrister, and at the moment I am not really allowed say much more however I think this will be resolved by the end of the month.

spav

That's outrageous.

Your next steps would depend on what you want to happen as a result of this, I suppose.

I'd suggest a letter to the shop if you'd be satisfied with an apology and the image in question never to be reproduced again. If you want to take it further (and you've ever right to), perhaps with a view to getting some financial recompense and/or punishment for the offender, then speak to a solicitor. While there has clearly been an infringement here, the area of intellectual property is a complicated one, so I'd suggest seeking professional advice.

Best of luck in whatever you do. A distressing situation to find yourself in, I'm sure.

Rb

bernard0368 wrote: »

They are talking to my fathers friend the barrister, and at the moment I am not really allowed say much more however I think this will be resolved by the end of the month.

Great, good to hear.

bernard0368

Okay this has been settled with the provision I dont name them.
The outcome was €1500 plus €1000 equipment/services and all parties received letters of apologies from the offender and from the managing director.

Slidinginfinity

If your content with the end result, that is all that matters.
Congrats and good job on fighting this

PCPhoto

bernard0368 wrote: »

Okay this has been settled with the provision I dont name them.
The outcome was €1500 plus €1000 equipment/services and all parties received letters of apologies from the offender and from the managing director.

hush money !!!

on principle alone I would have ignored any financial remuneration (ok - unless it was a significant number of zero's) ......

you have let them off lightly for illegally reproducing your work, the stress this caused to your wife and you...and the birthday girl who was presented with the image, breaking the law with respect to their customer relations....if you had brought this to court ....if you had named and shamed them they would also have learned a valuable lesson as it would have hurt in terms of business lost and reputation ruined....instead they pay out a small amount of money on condition you dont tell people who they are and what they did.

DaireQuinlan

Yes, it's disappointing. Entirely the OP's call though.

CabanSail

I don't think anyone else can decide what is a proper outcome other than you and your wife. As long as you are happy with it then that is all that is important.

A penalty of €2500 plus legal costs is not huge but it will still sting. It is probably enough to stop them taking the risk of pulling that stunt again. I get the feeling that this was not really about the money and as such you could have rejected that & on principle "named & shamed" the company involved. That would have caused them a LOT more damage than the agreed settlement. I am not sure that revenge would have made you feel any better though. To me it sounds like you have made a valid point & now can put this behind you.

Now here's the awkward question. After taking into account your legal costs, what will you do with the rest of the money? You said there was a tragic accident, could the rest of the cash be of any assistance to someone involved because of that?

bernard0368

While I agree with you all that they should be named and shamed it was discussed.
The compensation accounts for 80% of their last years profit. Our barrister friend and my wife felt that by naming them would put the jobs of three staff very much on the line and she didn't want anyone on the dole, not in these times..
The monies involved is after legal fees so the final cost to them is higher.

Disappointing maybe but it was the wife who felt the most pain and she had to figure strongly in the decision.

The monies are going to a charity yet to be decided. The equipment/service part of it will also go that route when we can figure the best way of doing so.

People may feel that they got off likely and I may not argue with you on this but some good will come out this for two charities. Above all else my family comes first and if the wife considers this fair retribution for the offenders stupidity well then she gets my full support and acceptance of her decision.

HxGH

Get s/he fired at least.
100 points if you destroy the business.