I give up on the Irish people

Arnold Layne · 13-12-2009 9:16pm

Dr_Phil wrote: »

They should have bought cheaper house...

Should have, would have, could have. It doesn't matter, the fact remains that a drop in income can affect the ability to pay a mortgage. A couple may buy a cheap house, but the 2 incomes are needed to repay the mortgage, the fact that banks were throwing money at people didn't help the situation, as we all know.

Permabear · 13-12-2009 9:22pm

This post has been deleted.

Dr_Phil · 13-12-2009 9:26pm

Arnold Layne wrote: »

Should have, would have, could have. It doesn't matter, the fact remains that a drop in income can affect the ability to pay a mortgage. A couple may buy a cheap house, but the 2 incomes are needed to repay the mortgage, the fact that banks were throwing money at people didn't help the situation, as we all know.

Of course. Same if someone is employed in public sector and looses job. There are plenty of things like that, moreover, I'd say that 6% cut is one of "best" bad things that happen to people during recession.

And again, if mortgage repayments are in danger because of 6% cut, they must 80% or so of person/couple's total income (20% must be food&bills, as for 40k/annum I'd imagine) - it's not really smart, what OP is expecting me to say?

Dannyboy83 · 13-12-2009 9:32pm

I'll try to keep this brief;

You can argue about economic principles and that all day.
But its all irrelevant, if you do not understand that it was economically unsound to do the benchmarking in the first place, and could only end in disaster.
So any argument about economic soundness is going to have to revolve around austerity.

Its quite horrible for those of you who now have to go through this.
On the other hand, perhaps recognise that you are also lucky to have had those few years of high pay, while the vast majority of people didn't.

All I can say is, if you don't like it, use your vote.
But don't expect that there is anything you can do to change it, because there isn't. This is Ireland's reality and this is Ireland's future. And there is no way back now.

Be angry, be pissed off, but accept it and be prepared for more, its likely that there will be. And no amount of anger will change that.
We've just moved into the depression tunnel, but Brian Lenihan has given us a rocket engine to get through it much faster, because he had balls enough to put country before constituency, country before party.

If you don't feel like build any statues of Brian Lenihan for rescuing the country, then perhaps make some voodoo dolls of Bertie Ahern and Brian Cowen for destroying it.

Count Dooku · 13-12-2009 9:46pm

Sandvich wrote: »

Conveniently, it always has to be "their" fault. People don't seem to be angry at corrupt bankers or the wasteful, incompetent government anymore.

Public servants were not angry at corrupt bankers or the wasteful, incompetent government at September.
What is reason to be angry now when NAMA passed Dail and FF government survived after Lisbon?
It is time for public servants to learn that they are not alone, who can be selfish

cson · 13-12-2009 9:57pm

Christ that was the bitterest load of ****e I've ever read. I don't even know where to begin. :eek:

pah · 13-12-2009 10:23pm

Dr_Phil wrote: »

They should have bought cheaper house...

Aww c'mon what a load of crap. Who could have bought a house in the last 5 years that could have got it for a price, such that repayments could be maintained after one full income was gone and the other reduced by 15% ???

Cufflink · 13-12-2009 10:36pm

C'mon, OP, haven't you figured it out yet? The Irish people aren't worth a tear. I mean, let's face it, if this crowd that makes up the population of the country today were around in 1916 there wouldn't be an Irish Republic because they'd all be worrying about their next trip to Manchester to see MU play at home. We live in a country were 'the world' is something that exists only between the two ears of any given individual and so long as my immediate personal wants are taken care of, everything is all right.

PeakOutput · 13-12-2009 10:52pm

Cufflink wrote: »

I mean, let's face it, if this crowd that makes up the population of the country today were around in 1916 there wouldn't be an Irish Republic because they'd all be worrying about their next trip to Manchester to see MU play at home. We live in a country were 'the world' is something that exists only between the two ears of any given individual and so long as my immediate personal wants are taken care of, everything is all right.

couldnt have described the public service and their unions better myself good job

Daithinski · 13-12-2009 11:28pm

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

If you don't feel like build any statues of Brian Lenihan for rescuing the country

I wouldn't go passing around the cigars just yet...:rolleyes:

Cufflink · 13-12-2009 11:36pm

PeakOutput wrote: »

couldnt have described the public service and their unions better myself good job

I was actually referring to the famous 'plain people of Ireland', but by all means display your ignorance. It just goes to prove my point.

PeakOutput · 13-12-2009 11:53pm

Cufflink wrote: »

I was actually referring to the famous 'plain people of Ireland', but by all means display your ignorance. It just goes to prove my point.

oh were you? i never could have guessed maybe i should have added /sarcasm to the end of my point

being called ignorant form someone who just called the entire population of a country selfish and self serving dosnt mean all that much tbh

SLUSK · 13-12-2009 11:59pm

Sandvich wrote: »

It was too long for you, and you seem to be siding with the jobbos with a skewed view of "Personality responsibility".

This kind of proves my point - the "hard knock life" crowd here are nowhere near as intellectual as they like to think. If you were, you'd have read my post no problem and disected it.

Get what they deserve my ass. Can you not tell how the tone of that comes off to people who don't share your "ideology"? Nothing nice, that's for sure.

I'd love to see you in that situation - the fact is you can't comprehend how anyone honest could end up in that situation because not only are you a borderline sociopath, you also don't have the balls to accept that fact and admit you're a bad person for feeling that way. This represents for me the sinister side of Irish culture I was talking about.

6% is a lot when you're on 40,000 a year. Now should be a time for compassion and understanding for those hardest hit, not some ridiculous contest of who can be the biggest asshole to people that don't deserve it.

During my 2 years in Ireland I never made more than 26 000 euro per year yet I managed to save 10 000 euro per year. If other people with higher salaries can't cope it is their own fault.

Daithinski · 14-12-2009 12:49am

SLUSK wrote: »

During my 2 years in Ireland I never made more than 26 000 euro per year yet I managed to save 10 000 euro per year. If other people with higher salaries can't cope it is their own fault.

I agree.:rolleyes:

Yer man Baz Aswamy(can't remember his last name) did a show where he met people who saved loads of money by being "frugal".

If anybody has any more ideas feel free to add them to the list.

This list could be printed on the back of the receipt that social welfare recipients sign in the post office.

The government should consider making at least one item of this list compulsory, with non cooperating recipients being struck of the dole.

Reduce food bill
These TV guys ate roadkill. There's plenty of eating on a badger.
You could make further savings by making a "Davy Crockett" type hat from the fur.

These guys also rooted in the bins of Tescos for food. They found loads of stuff. Cowboy up. A bit of mould never killed anybody. (Note: This may not be true).

Reduce Accomodation / Utility Bills

Live in an abandoned vehicle. Like the weirdos er. individuals on Baz's TV show. They had a lovely bus.

Or better still, buy a caravan and go on the road. If its good enough for the travelling folk, its good enough for everybody else. It might be fun, a bit like wanderly wagon or something. Into the west Tayto and all of that.

For those who can't afford a caravan, tents can be bought for as little as 20 euro.

Clothing / Shoes
Why go to the expense of a charity shop?

Get up early in the morning and steal collect the bags filled with clothing that are left out on peoples doorsteps for various eastern european / african "charities".

With some simple changes to your lifestyle, you too can save €1000's. Easy peasy. Recession schmession.

Dannyboy83 · 14-12-2009 1:04am

Daithinski wrote: »

I wouldn't go passing around the cigars just yet...:rolleyes:

It was meant in jest, probably not clear to be fair.
(Although it looks like somebody got berlusconi and bertie's doll mixed up)

Sandvich · 16-12-2009 8:00pm

SLUSK wrote: »

During my 2 years in Ireland I never made more than 26 000 euro per year yet I managed to save 10 000 euro per year. If other people with higher salaries can't cope it is their own fault.

This just proves my point that the people coming out in support of this are completely unable to imagine situations outside of their own. I've known a guy who managed to survive on the dole without rent allowance, renting a 100 euro a week room(well, for a little while). Yet most people would struggle with that, this doesn't change. You have to accept that you are not an empathic person and that there are so many situations and living situations that make what you claim possible. Some people have different hobbies, some people require expensive medication, some people live in more expensive areas than you.

Also, I'd like to make one comment I saw on another forum. There was absolutely no increase in Income tax in this budget for the private sector. At the end of the day, blind people have to take a cut in their income, but the bankers who caused the mess get off scot free. Why is this fair?

I know people are all trendy these days and like to believe ethics are relativistic, but should one try to develop a system that was not, I can't see how the people in this thread/forum would come out smelling like roses in it. It wasn't a bad budget for you maybe, it was still a bad budget.

Permabear · 16-12-2009 8:08pm

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deadinterest · 16-12-2009 8:11pm

Sandvich wrote: »

I dunno, I hear there's this thing called "Personal debt" which is a million times worse, but I'm sure that's all a conspiracy to make the government look bad. After all, what the government tells us is best to happen must always be true, that's why they've made so many great decisions in the past.

...

Sandvich · 16-12-2009 8:11pm

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Previous budget also had Pension levies and scrapped the Christmas bonus. Don't be smart. They're still at the end of the day taking it out on the more needy members of society when it's not really necessary.

deadinterest · 16-12-2009 8:12pm

Sandvich wrote: »

Previous budget also had Pension levies and scrapped the Christmas bonus. Don't be smart. They're still at the end of the day taking it out on the more needy members of society when it's not really necessary.

Remember baby infants, if you have two apples you can't take away three apples.

Dr Galen · 16-12-2009 8:13pm

Sandvich wrote: »

Previous budget also had Pension levies and scrapped the Christmas bonus. Don't be smart. They're still at the end of the day taking it out on the more needy members of society when it's not really necessary.

how are you defining not really necessary? Our finances are in ruin OP. What do you suggest we do instead?

jimmycrackcorm · 16-12-2009 8:16pm

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It's also quite likely that there will be some form of tax increase in the next budget, a combination of the two would be quite damaging. But the primary objective of this budget was to reign in government overspending which the real problem. If it is unfair that there was no tax increases for the private sector then I would say it is unfair also that there was no Public sector reform undertaken as well as spending cuts.

jimmycrackcorm · 16-12-2009 8:20pm

Sandvich wrote: »

Previous budget also had Pension levies

Making Public Servants pay a contribution towards the pension they will receive is not really a cut. Otherwise I've had to start paying my own pension levy a few years ago.

Permabear · 16-12-2009 8:25pm

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ei.sdraob · 16-12-2009 8:26pm

Sandvich wrote: »

Welfare is a good cash injection back into the comedy and no matter how much you think something is or isn't meant, it matters what it can be best used for in this situation.

yes it is a good cash injection

but since our tax income is half of the expenditure, that means the cash for welfare etc is being borrowed

this money will have to be paid back + interest

who will pay for it??

Cian92 · 16-12-2009 11:05pm

Sandvich wrote: »

This just proves my point that the people coming out in support of this are completely unable to imagine situations outside of their own. I've known a guy who managed to survive on the dole without rent allowance, renting a 100 euro a week room(well, for a little while). Yet most people would struggle with that, this doesn't change. You have to accept that you are not an empathic person and that there are so many situations and living situations that make what you claim possible. Some people have different hobbies, some people require expensive medication, some people live in more expensive areas than you.

Also, I'd like to make one comment I saw on another forum. There was absolutely no increase in Income tax in this budget for the private sector. At the end of the day, blind people have to take a cut in their income, but the bankers who caused the mess get off scot free. Why is this fair?

I know people are all trendy these days and like to believe ethics are relativistic, but should one try to develop a system that was not, I can't see how the people in this thread/forum would come out smelling like roses in it. It wasn't a bad budget for you maybe, it was still a bad budget.

You hit the nail on the head there!

lmimmfn · 16-12-2009 11:37pm

my wife took a 5% hit so we're down, she got a 2% increase in may and is due another next year, boo feckin hoo, dole up 3.5% in april, down 4% now=next to no impact.

This whole thing is a joke, barely anything has changed from that budget, over the comming year or 2 the cuts will be nullified and we're back in the same boat, theres just a song and dance being made about it at the moment

heavyballs · 16-12-2009 11:51pm

Sandvich wrote: »

Also, I'd like to make one comment I saw on another forum. There was absolutely no increase in Income tax in this budget for the private sector

maybe the government took pity on us private sector workers,they have seen the tax take decrease more they or anyone else could have predicted,i think even you would agree a large part of this decrease is as a result of bonus and wage deductions as well as redundancies in our sector,
oh to have a secure job,it must be great for piece of mind regardless of the cut in wages.
btw i work for a bank if you need a lend for the chritmo give me a shout

T "real deal" J · 17-12-2009 12:17am

SLUSK wrote: »

During my 2 years in Ireland I never made more than 26 000 euro per year yet I managed to save 10 000 euro per year. If other people with higher salaries can't cope it is their own fault.

Far too simplistic kid. High salaries does not necessarily mean a wealthy person.
This is a misperception. you're on eur26,000 but you don't have crippling mortgage payments, 3 children to educate, feed etc, expensive bills like life & house insurance etc.

SLUSK wrote: »

If other people with higher salaries can't cope it is their own fault.

1. Developers/Irish Banks/Fianna Fail created a poorly managed excessive inflationary situation in which houses were crazily overpriced (ie. a ****ty bungalow in Rathfarnham costs eur800,000)...and it is in this environment that all people (high or low salaries) had to borrow to buy houses. Forgive me for stating the obvious, but these households have to service these inflated outstanding liabilities (constant) on deflated lower incomes (decreasing with each budget hence the squeeze).

2. Please don't get confused with wealthy people and "people on high salaries". Fianna Fail/Irish media have successfully pummeled into the dumbass irish public that they are one and the same (especially high paid civil servants). The wealthy are people who derive their income from sources OTHER than salaries and their assets/income streams are nestled abroad. This constitutes the golden circle/Galway races Fianna Fail tent attendees.

It's surprising (not surprising) how thick irish people are. Their venom has been media directed at the public service workers. This "serves them right" "tough luck" "it's their own fault" attitude is poisonous and divides our society distracting us from the cancerous golden circle/status quo which caused this mess. How can one ignore the misery some families are going through...being dragged through the courts by AIB because they missed a few mortgage repayments...we bailed the james blunts out!! Why aren't people absolutely going mad over that??!! But no, the budget was fair, "it's the public sector's fault" "they're preventing us from paying off our debt". Tackle the foreign national social welfare fraud and you've eur2bn back in the exchequer instantly...2008 only saw a yield of eur500m from the fraudsters...

inconclusion I agree with the author of this thread...especially after reading the ill thought callous posts on this thread...I give up on irish people...
We'll look back on Brian Lenihan as having been a "strong leader" in the budgets and mark my words Fianna Fail will be voted back in.Corruption? Mismanagement? Awful value for money? Greed? No real sense of social conscience? The Irish electorate consistently see these as merits

ghost_ie · 17-12-2009 1:38am

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Making Public Servants pay a contribution towards the pension they will receive is not really a cut. Otherwise I've had to start paying my own pension levy a few years ago.

Public Servants have always paid a contribution towards their pensions - granted not as much as those in the private sector with private pensions but that was part of the terms and conditions of their employment. Why should they not be bitter about having their salaries cut when they've seen a totally incompetent Financial Regulator, a corrupt head of FAS and various directors of Anglo Irish Bank been allowed to retire with not only extremely generous pensions but also golden handshakes which makes a fireman or nurse's salary look like peanuts?

I give up on the Irish people

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