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I give up on the Irish people
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em last i checked the private sector has those same issues, yet we're losing jobs like theres no tomorrow, so should we be moaning about our pensions/minimal contribution? will it work when on the dole?Public Servants have always paid a contribution towards their pensions - granted not as much as those in the private sector with private pensions but that was part of the terms and conditions of their employment. Why should they not be bitter about having their salaries cut when they've seen a totally incompetent Financial Regulator, a corrupt head of FAS and various directors of Anglo Irish Bank been allowed to retire with not only extremely generous pensions but also golden handshakes which makes a fireman or nurse's salary look like peanuts?0 -
Not sure where all the confusion is coming from.
Dole cuts were inacted as part of a policy of
reducing wages across the board. - can't do that unless welfare is lower.
Was there alternatives (property taxes reduction of taz breaks, direct taxation on wealth etc) yes, but that's not the point.
The catchphrase is 'competitiveness' - started by IBEC and echoed through ther halls of power since. Next on the agenda will be the minimum wage laws.
It's amazing. THe super rich pull a world class heist in front of our eyes and we're bickering about who left the door opened and who should close it.0 -
Making Public Servants pay a contribution towards the pension they will receive is not really a cut.
I think the fact that the attorney-general ruled that the levy could not be imposed on judges (for the reason that the constitution forbids a cut in their pay) should clarify that it was - in fact and in law- a pay cut.Free Excel net pay calculator- https://taxcalc.eu/monthlyss/Employee%20PAYE%20calculator.xlsm
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Aww c'mon what a load of crap. Who could have bought a house in the last 5 years that could have got it for a price, such that repayments could be maintained after one full income was gone and the other reduced by 15% ???
I didnt buy a house as the prices weren't affordable and I was called a fool by everyone. So now i've bought a house 2 months ago and for a reasonable price which we can afford on 1 income even with a paycut.
I guess my problem with it is that people didn't give a flying f*ck what they could afford, just what the bank would give them.0 -
T real deal J wrote: »Far too simplistic kid. High salaries does not necessarily mean a wealthy person.
This is a misperception. you're on eur26,000 but you don't have crippling mortgage payments, 3 children to educate, feed etc, expensive bills like life & house insurance etc.
1. Developers/Irish Banks/Fianna Fail created a poorly managed excessive inflationary situation in which houses were crazily overpriced (ie. a ****ty bungalow in Rathfarnham costs eur800,000)...and it is in this environment that all people (high or low salaries) had to borrow to buy houses. Forgive me for stating the obvious, but these households have to service these inflated outstanding liabilities (constant) on deflated lower incomes (decreasing with each budget hence the squeeze).
2. Please don't get confused with wealthy people and "people on high salaries". Fianna Fail/Irish media have successfully pummeled into the dumbass irish public that they are one and the same (especially high paid civil servants). The wealthy are people who derive their income from sources OTHER than salaries and their assets/income streams are nestled abroad. This constitutes the golden circle/Galway races Fianna Fail tent attendees
Yet another who never heard of renting.
They were not forced to take out a huge mortgage. And why is that the public sector posters with mortgages seem to be the most that are moaning about these cutbacks and their affect on their mortgages?
Other PS posters who didn't overextend themselves in personal debt see common sense and take the cut.
Reduce your lifestyle to within your means and you will have decent standard of living like Slusk.0 -
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Okay OP - so from your original post (which I've reread a few times), you think we're all whining, selfish, and uncaring....creating a "sinister" society. The banks are to blame, along with builders and the government,it's not the public sector's fault, there should be no paycuts and someone else should solve the problem.
I'm paraphrasing but I think I'm fairly accurate in that appraisal.
We do whine and we're great at blaming. However in this particular medium people are entitled to their opinion. Now fair enough it's been way over done the last few weeks, but then, so was Lisbon when we were coming up to that vote. Don't read threads that harp on about it if you've that much of a problem with the thing.
A sinister society is not quite right.Laissez-faire. Moaning.Inactive.Constantly watching each other.Maybe all of the above. But.....sinister.No.
The Gov, banks and builders are all equally responsible for the mess we're in. But what people don't seem to notice is that we are being paid far above most European wages.And yeah I know, cost of living blah blah. The cost of living is high because our wages are high. Think of the - eighties. Cost of living was pittance compared to now. Because wages were pittance, and unemployment was rife. Cost of living grew as our wages grew.
Mortgages are a major problem, because people can't afford them anymore. Yes some sort of rescue plan has to be put in place. But some people are going to lose out and that is a fact of life. The way you have said this is that you don't care about people who could "afford" the 5% but think it a fair budget. You care about those who can no longer make their mortgage payments. Ok fine. So how exactly do we seperate the members of the public service (and I refer to them specifically because you are telling us to lay off and they're hard done by) into those who can "afford" said paycut, and those who can't, because they won't make their mortgage payments?
We can't. And given that the public sector paybill and pension is a third of Government spending and we're borrowing just to maintain that, public servants need to accept that they have to take a paycut. No union agreements, no alternative arrangements.....just a paycut.
Now before you land on me like a ton of bricks, let me explain something. I'm taking a 5% paycut on a salary of 39,000 in Jan. I pay for my own pension and I have a mortgage of about 350,000. I've no car loan - but then my car is a 98 - and very little credit card debt. I live within my means, with a couple of hobbies, and I work damn hard (50+ hours a week) for what I get.
I couldn't care less who works in PS and private sector. But it sticks in me a bit when I hear people on the radio, and here, and on TV saying they're PS and they are on 550eur a week for a 4 day week ( after the pension cut) and they can't afford any more cuts. Why? Because I 'll probably have no job this time next year (I'm an engineer), they're on as much as me ( if I was on a 4 day week) and I can guarantee you that most don't work 7.30 to 6 everyday.
I conciously chose my job, and I love it. I have no desire at all to work in the PS. But I do believe that there is no realisation there of the reality of the whole situation that we're in, and benchmarking works both ways.I don't understand why they can't just accept this cut and have done with it. It has to be done. There are no other alternatives. I do think that we need to stop blaming the PS - it's not their fault. But equally I think they need to come into the real world with the rest of us and realise they are no longer affordable.
In conclusion, Sandvich, you are entitled to your opinions, but I don't see you offering any other viable long term solution to this problem. I appreciate there are people out there who are extremely hard done by in life. I am well aware that there are people in this country who should have been locked up years ago for what they've been let get away with in the last ten years. But the Budget was quite fair, by general standards. The Gov made decisions, and as always, not everyone agreed with them. They were however very necessary and (surprisingly) decent decisions. We need to get out of the mess we are now in, and the first step was to do what we did. The adjustment period will hurt like hell, but people will survive. And hopefully we'll all come out the better for it at the other end.
(I'll sit back and wait for the explosion now);)0 -
Your obviously vexed, I took some time to see what you had to say.Looking at this forum I see insane volumes of apathetic apologists, and far too many right wing "hard knock life" themed posts.
What is a 'hard knock life' right wing theme? Is this the cheeky private sector concerning themselves with matters of state that as the unions would have us believe are none of our bloody business? I just don't grasp this opening statement.
Equally it does not make it incorrect, however I fail to see the link to compensation, perhaps it is explained below?It was a rough budget. Just because a decision is "tough" does not make it correct, and when your main argument is that people are immature moaners for not accepting it, it becomes more and more obvious you're compensating for something..
When you say "our fault" are referring to the people of Ireland or do you mean people who are dependent on government borrowed money? Admittedly there are some people who were not affected by the budget but I think if you are of the latter group I describe above you have a blind spot that has been opened in that now you are getting a taste of what the private sector has endured for well over a year, in excess of 150,000 jobs gone. This does not make it good, nor do I wish it on anyone, however we have to borrow money to pay the bills today. Isn't that what got us into the problem? Do you not see the connection...when you borrow it is expected you will pay it back or are you suggesting something else?It makes me sick because the people who are saying the budget was fair, are obviously not being affected by it and are passing nasty sweeping remarks against people who got in situations they couldn't predict. Conveniently, it always has to be "their" fault. People don't seem to be angry at corrupt bankers or the wasteful, incompetent government anymore. No, it's all our fault, and especially anyone on welfare, or a public servant, or anyone that uses a credit card ever that isn't rich.Not everyone is completely competent with their finances, nor can you expect them to be. Yet some little scumbags here are acting like they're MORALLY WRONG for not keeping their bookkeeping in order - yet the people whose JOB it actually is to do and screwed up royally are being forgotten about.
I think you need to think about this, when you ask for a loan is it morally right to refuse? The consequences of not doing so are all very clear now, and as another poster has put it, if you loose 6% of your income and are broke you should never have had a loan in the first place. But remember most of this country walked into the bank asked for a loan and when refused went down the road to someone else who would give them a loan. If indeed you are advocating that bankers governments etc should have policed the individual, made judgement and cut their ability to have credit you are completely advocating the right wing "hard knock life" as I understand it. That does somewhat contradict what you have said above.It just goes to show how little the average Irish person gives a care about people other than themselves. There is no intellectual honesty in these arguments. These are tough times, but it's no excuse for the level of gullibility and lack of compassion and logical reason some people are coming out with.
This of course depends on which side of the fence you sit. If you believe that more tax's are evidence of compassion I do not believe you are in the private sector and again we must add our dependence on borrowing, which at some point has to be paid back.....unless of course you are suggesting something else?There are people who were already thoroughly boned and are now even more so because of it. I'm tired of reading posts that are WELL MY WIFE IS DOWN 6% BUT IT WAS A FAIR BUDGET WE THINK. I do not give a **** about you and your wife. I give a crap about the people who are down 6% and now can't repay their mortgage or loans like they expected. Of course I see lads like Donegalfella saying how that's not what welfare is no. Well, you know what, saying "THIS ISN'T WHAT IT'S MEANT FOR" isn't a very good argument. The argument is the bit where you actually explain why. Welfare is a good cash injection back into the comedy and no matter how much you think something is or isn't meant, it matters what it can be best used for in this situation. The lack of grasp these people have on the idea of "utility" is astonishing. People on the right end of the spectrum, socially and economically, always like to hide behind their ideas instead of defending them. "TOUGH TIMES" is not an argument, "CAPITALISM" is not an argument, "RESPONSIBILITY" is not an argument.
The ability to borrow to pay for government expenditure (welfare and public sector jobs) is an argument and a pretty serious one. Frankly this is the core issue. We are borrowing with no hope of paying it back. This is where responsibility quite rightly is not an argument it is a necessity. We were warned about this for years and choose not to take any notice. No one, not even the opposition spoke up about government expenditure being a problem. Infact anyone who did just didn’t get elected. How is it then their fault they represented the people. No the government public sector and semi-state sector all profited and forgot that they needed a private sector. The best demonstration of this recently is the nurses union leader telling people to mind their own business!!!!If the economy collapses then all our efforts to bail the government out will be for naught.
I don't follow your logic here; if we were bailing out the government we would have had 23billion of cuts instead of 1.3billion. That is how much of a hole we are in.I can't stress enough how someone disagreeing with a "tough" decision, even one less tough than expected, isn't in automatically the wrong. Otherwise all you have to do is make a bunch of dumb, harsh decisions, call them tough, and get away with not thinking very hard about it. Solving this mess would require a level of actual work which our TDs and economists don't seem to want to put in.
Are you saying the government didn't go far enough?The worst thing of all is when certain people say we should just shut up and put up, and not be at each other's throats, it'll never be good for the economy. What this has done is revealed a far more sinister side to the Irish social conscience, a malign, selfish entity with a false sense of what's "practical".
The whole process has revealed much of the Irish character. We love to blame someone else. Bottom line Ireland is broke and no one will give us money (this money is not going to the private sector just to the public sector) unless we get down off our high horses and learn quickly what it is like to be frugal.We have been given our instructions by the ECB.
Nobody will admit to this but most young people have the ability to go and live with their parents, if you are going to cut welfare which I admit is harsh this is the demographic that suffers the least. As for what are they going to do, that is a different question. If they have no job I guess nothing, but welfare won't change that. They could endorsing your compassion theme from earlier go out and help the carers, but I guess they'll only do that if someone is paying.I understand I am by no means an economic expert, but the ones I do know don't seem to quite align with the supposed ones on this forum. There are so many basic economic principles going out the window, as well as a lack of sense - if young people are only getting 100 euro a week, what are they meant to do? I can understand some decisions in the budget, but this is just crazy. The main justification for it seems to be that typical right wing GET A JOB HIPPIE kind of drivel, which isn't practical, obviously, in a recession.There aren't jobs out there for them, and most places in education are taken up - the government are even looking to cut some! We're going to end up with a lot either leaving the country or becoming a bigger burden on their parents. When young people have less money and independence, local business is going to suffer too. What's so great about keeping the country slightly more afloat if half the local businesses nearly go under?.
Back to the borrowing issue, frankly this is what it is like to be a poor country with no safety net. We blew ours in that last ten years doubling welfare when there was the least need for it. It is now water under the bridge; yes emigration will probably be the only option in the short term until we correct the finances. I lived through this before and will do so again if necessary. Life will go on.The social attitudes here are an even bigger long term problem than the debt we're in. I don't think there's much point continuing to argue in this forum, there are too many people with a smug sense of self righteousness that think because they found the budget not to be harsh, that nobody else should. That's what it comes down to. I expect however some smug, smarmy posts about how everyone needs to "cop on" and accept being ****ed in the ass with another 1000 "thanks" from various people that deserve a slap.
Here I agree with your first statement. It is our social problems that got us into this mess; we collectively always want someone else to be responsible. Unfortunately it will take discipline to get out of it. Look at it this way; every day you'll wake up and do something with your day, what you do fortunately is still your choice. You can make of it what you will. I know you'll get a lot of stick for what you've posted but you don't seem to be of the brigade that expects money to magically appear from nowhere, so you’ll be alright.0 -
I have to laugh at claims from the PS that they are struggling to repay their mortage with their cuts, and lets be fair, the only ones who could claim that is anyone under 40k ish! Have they noticed that interested rates are at the lowest they will ever be and how much this is currently saving them! If you think its bad now, give it a year or two, the country will still be screwed but Europe will be growing again and interest rates will rise! The bottom line is that any PS now has to be better off than in 06,07,08 etc if they own property due to said huge reguction in mortgage repayments and cost of living!0
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Join Date:Posts: 13665
It just goes to show how little the average Irish person gives a care about people other than themselves. There is no intellectual honesty in these arguments. These are tough times, but it's no excuse for the level of gullibility and lack of compassion and logical reason some people are coming out with.
These are tough times, but would you not accept that arguing for cuts is not intellectually dishonest so much as looking at the big picture. Notwithstanding that I am directly affected by cuts in the government's budget, I look beyond my own cirucmstances and see that the government is in serious trouble.
Equally I don't lack compassion for the people whose lives are materially worse after the budget, but the cuts have to be made somewhere and I don't think my compassion for those people should cloud my judgement as to what the right thing to do is.
Therefore, while I don't like cuts and wish the gravy train would keep going, I accept that it can't go on like this.0 -
The lack of empathy and understanding of another persons plight on this forum is vomit educing.
How a country and its people are judged is how it treats their most vulnerable in society.....the only thing this budget serves to do is put more people on the poverty line.
Is that enough "taking of the pain" as you all so gallantley put it?!
I am ashamed to be Irish.0 -
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The lack of empathy and understanding of another persons plight on this forum is vomit educing.
How a country and its people are judged is how it treats their most vulnerable in society.....the only thing this budget serves to do is put more people on the poverty line.
Is that enough "taking of the pain" as you all so gallantley put it?!
I am ashamed to be Irish.
since when are 150K+ people who earn more than 40K a year (taking the union figures of half our member earn under 40K
)
are vulnerable?0 -
I suspect that the poster was referring to welfare recipients who were targeted for cuts in the Budget rather than union members.
Free Excel net pay calculator- https://taxcalc.eu/monthlyss/Employee%20PAYE%20calculator.xlsm
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Unions are cheatingsince when are 150K+ people who earn more than 40K a year (taking the union figures of half our member earn under 40K)
are vulnerable?
They are included family members into their statistic
As result we have 400,000 in public services
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/Xml/30/DAL20091103A.PDF
38669/09up to
10,000 49,747
20,000 64,116
30,000 69,766
40,000 69,954
50,000 55,586
60,000 34,562
70,000 22,555
80,000 15,635
90,000 10,379
100,000 7,045
100,000+ 15,2780 -
The lack of empathy and understanding of another persons plight on this forum is vomit educing.
How a country and its people are judged is how it treats their most vulnerable in society.....the only thing this budget serves to do is put more people on the poverty line.
This type of argument is a bit iffy.0 -
tbh i've never heard that as a measure of a country. Most countries are judged in terms of it's GDP, per capita income, life expectancy, military capability, stuff like that.How a country and its people are judged is how it treats their most vulnerable in society.
I have little idea how our eu neighbours treat their most vulnerable in society never mind countries halfway round the world.
And tbh, it's sorta sticking our noses in their business isn't it?
I mean, as long as they aren't gas chambering them what business is it of mine whether the most vulnerable get free money deposited in their bank accounts or not in other countries?
Besides, i'd wager that most countries don't even offer dole.0 -
Looking at this forum..........
The worst thing of all is when certain people say we should just shut up and put up, and not be at each other's throats, it'll never be good for the economy. What this has done is revealed a far more sinister side to the Irish social conscience, a malign, selfish entity with a false sense of what's "practical".
.........
I apologise from the start for not having read all the posts in this thread before replying. However by the time I read everything, I won't have much time left this afternoon to reply as I would wish, if at all.
And I'm only replying because, having stumbled upon the opening post, I cannot help thinking that the OP had me in mind, as I was the one who mentioned throats and the economy in another thread. But I was not the one who said shut up and put up, but by the poster himself (or herself) by presuming that's what I meant when he highlighted a question while ignoring the rest of my post. I feel I should explain my position, as it seems I was not clear.
First out, I'm not irish. I don't know if that disqualifies me from voicing an opinion, but I'm saying it anyway. I can only comment on MY perception of things, as someone who's made Ireland her and her family's home, without the benefit of an irish person's inside knowledge (e.g. having lived here all her life). But I do have the benefit of experiencing similar scenarios elsewhere. I'm not a spring chicken.
It is NOT about "surrendering" to the government. First of all, who is the government? Who gave them permission to run the country? If some of us could see the the hopeless way some things were done, (admittedly my worries focused around health and education back then) how couldn't those who'd been around for many many years not see? Why the blinkers BACK THEN? If there ever was an insensitive part of society, it was then. I admit to having had fits of 'desperation' (for want of a better word) at some points, through the total lack of interest. Not desperate at being in Ireland, but the attitude of who cares?, and things like but sure, FF are grand, we've never had it so good. Never mind the people on trolleys or the kids in prefabs. Or the homeless. Or those in leaking houses. I also remember my alarm bells started to ring deafeningly when Amgen pulled out,only to be accused of being silly, and what did I know? (Unfortunately, I took their advice, ignored my bells and bought my house.) Regardless of that, I still lost a few quid in the last election, as I was sure this crowd wouldn't get in again.
But, as I said in that particular post, the past should be studied and shredded to death, AFTER we try and crawl out of this hole. At this point in time, please tell me who'll benefit, exactly, if people in this country keep attacking each other while the country goes down the pan. It's like organising, and putting on, the trial of an offender while his victim is still waiting to be taken to hospital. I assure you, those that benefit will be none other than the politicians, their contacts and the unions. FF will be back in power before we know it, because they'll say didn't we try and do something about it, it's them (us) that didn't want to. And people with short memories, come election time, will say "They're right, it's not their fault we're in an even worse mess than a year (or two, or three) ago." Think Berlusconi. He's taken a physical hit, but you can be sure those around him are elevated as his popularity (therefore their pockets) will go sky high. Even if another party comes in, you have to make sure it's not a case of different faces, same agenda.
We have to get our act together. There's no two ways about it. THEN we take action. That is, YOU take action, as I can't vote. As they say, I'm the bun without the cream.
Do you have any idea of the consequences if the country keeps borrowing, in the meantime? What are the alternatives? The OP mentions economists he knows and there are holes in the budget. Fair enough. What do they suggest? Everyone knows what needs to be done but not many of us are saying anything. What came out of the much-publicised meeting/s a few weeks ago with the successful irish abroad? What was their input? What was the outcome? Did the budget take into consideration what was said? What? What do the unions suggest, except for going on strike. Pay cuts are not the answer, with which I'd agree/disagree if I knew what their answer is. Will they keep insisting that a competent hospital worker (I think it was, a few years ago) shouldn't change a light bulb, but to send for the electrician instead? What are their solutions to the worker who's been laid off without the, at least, solace of a redundancy package? We could go on.
Everyone has a right to protest publicly. I joined in a few myself through the years. But only when there was a chance of getting a few drops of water out of the stone. Say we all agree and protest, we succeed and everything stays the same, or is marginally different. What then? What will we say to our children a few years down the road when they would not be able to afford ever living away from their family, not just short-term, let alone buy their own house, because all their income will be going towards the interest and taxes that are necessary for today's borrowings? Only someone who really doesn't want to see will take this to mean, in any way, as condoning whatever the government does. There ARE many things which are harsh in the budget. If there was ONE thing I'm particularly angry about, it's the carers and disability allowance. The carers, especially, are already saving the taxpayer millions. Why doesn't any politician give a portion of his remaining salary to one such carer? I'm sure even €10k will go a long way. And that the generous politician will not expect to be compensated through the tax office for it, either. Wishful thinking? No politician will come forward? So maybe it is true that they're all out for themselves. So, in essence, if FF are done away with today, who's going to take their place tomorrow?
I'd like to say more, but I think I've bored enough people already. Indeed, sorry for being long-winded, but sometimes one has to be in order not to be misunderstood. I hope I haven't been this time, anyway.0 -
You do of course understand the concept of the "poverty line"?The lack of empathy and understanding of another persons plight on this forum is vomit educing.
How a country and its people are judged is how it treats their most vulnerable in society.....the only thing this budget serves to do is put more people on the poverty line.
Is that enough "taking of the pain" as you all so gallantley put it?!
I am ashamed to be Irish.
Someone who goes without any kind of food or shelter more more than 24 hours for no reason other than they do not have it, is on the poverty line. Someone who huddles in a cold house eating tins from the SVP because they don't have money for heating or food, is on the poverty line.
Someone who's no longer able to go out for two pints on a Friday evening, but has to watch the late late instead or who's struggling to pay their mortgage, but is otherwise OK, is not on the poverty line.
As a country, we have one of the lowest rates of true poverty in the world, and the simple fact is that a 4.5% drop in social welfare will not make much difference to this rate when the actual cost of living in Ireland has dropped by much more than 4.5%.
Our most vulnerable are, relatively speaking, well looked after - probably because there is such a history of widespread poverty through the 1800s and 1900s in this country. We should look at how we are treating the most vulnerable in our society and be proud at how far we've come in such a short space of time.0 -
Seamus i think you are describing absolute poverty. The poverty line describes someone who does not have the minimum amount of income to cover basic needs. And yes i do think the cut to the budgets, job cuts, pay decreases etc will lead to more people being on the poverty line. Common sense really, but having apathy for people dealing with this situation is too difficult for your right wing brain. Thinking of others, wow a hard concept?!0
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I've read through most of the posts on this and have to say that some of them are a bit whining yet complaining about others whining.
Yes the Budget was tough and in some ways, probably a bit unfair. But that is why we elect people to represent our interests. I know for a fact that one of my local TD's voted against the social welfare bill so I'm glad I voted for him. If your local TD's did not represent your view then why didn't you contact them after the Budget was announced. It still had to be signed into law after that so you could have made some what of a difference. And I'd like to ask how many who are complaining about the government actually voted in the election?
I'm in the private sector & in the past year I've had a 5% pay cut that didn't hit me hard but did hit friends of mine who were renting places. Do you know what they did? They stopped spending on things other than the basics. I've also had to pay all the levys and the health increases. And yes I do accept them. I work in the Financial industry - I know the country is going down the swanny if we don't do something to sort it out. Ok the bankers may be to blame for some of it but the government didn't exactly put away anything for the rainy day that's now here.
I do feel for those on social welfare - I know people facing cuts that are going to be tough.
For people who are struggling with mortgages after a 6% drop then yes I do think they should have thought about the mortgage first. I can understand for people who've lost their jobs but people should have realised that a boom can't last forever. Never has, never will.
I know in some ways I sound unsympathic but it's the facts that we now have to deal with. The banks may have been offering the 100% mortgages but we were the ones taking them out.0 -
Apologies, you are right, but the poverty line is still a far cry from not being able to afford a couple of pints, or not being able to spend €500 on "Santy" or struggling with your mortgage. The poverty line is where you are at risk of poverty - i.e. where the slightest drop in your income will leave you without the basics you need for everyday life. A single person can more than adequately live on €27/day without even being at risk of poverty.Seamus i think you are describing absolute poverty. The poverty line describes someone who does not have the minimum amount of income to cover basic needs. And yes i do think the cut to the budgets, job cuts, pay decreases etc will lead to more people being on the poverty line. Common sense really, but having apathy for people dealing with this situation is too difficult for your right wing brain. Thinking of others, wow a hard concept?!
And I'm not being apathetic - if I actually thought there was some kind of humanitarian travesty taking place here, I guarantee you I'd be out there protesting with everyone else. But there's not. I accept that life isn't fair and it can't be rosy for everyone all the time. If I was to worry about everyone else all the time, I'd hate life.0 -
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witchgirl26 wrote: »
Yes the Budget was tough and in some ways, probably a bit unfair. But that is why we elect people to represent our interests. I know for a fact that one of my local TD's voted against the social welfare bill so I'm glad I voted for him.
You are lucky that you voted for someone who actually got elected.
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The welfare recipient's purchasing power in December 2009 is higher than it was in January 2009- this was due to the deflation in the price of goods and services while welfare rates remained fixed. However, after a reduction in welfare rates effective January 1 2010, the purchasing power will be lower in January 2010 compared to December 2009 unless prices decline in January 2010 to compensate for the decline in income.
They will still be ahead relative to January 2009 but they won't be able to 'fill their basket' as much as they could in December 2009.Free Excel net pay calculator- https://taxcalc.eu/monthlyss/Employee%20PAYE%20calculator.xlsm
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alot of emotion and fluffy long sentence in this thread
but very little common sense or pragmatism from some people
what it falls down to is very simple
the Incoming cashflow of the country is smaller than the Outflow
anyone here tries to run a household dependent on ever increasing debt taken from loan shark would understand why such a situation is BAD0 -
donegalfella wrote: »This post has been deleted.
I think you might be a bit lost... you have posted a thread dedicated to this subject.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055768131
Best of luck with your social welfare payment witchhunt.0
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