Heuston Station incident

walter81

Hi does anyone know what happened at Heuston Station yesterday. there were guards blocking the entrance into the station and two luas were stopped there.

kravmaga

Why do you want to know........does it really matter...........:D

foggy_lad

around the same time i was told at connolly station that there had been an incident at hueston at the bridge and that the connolly stop was closed for the night with the two trams there being used as spare trams,

a while after that i noticed luas repair vans at the bridge at heuston station erecting a sign for luas drivers advising them to check their route so maybe two trams collided? was it driver error or was it maybe one of the many junkies that hang around there assaulted a driver or damaged a tram?

monument

A Luas tram -- set for the Heuston to Connolly service -- was parked at middle platform, a tram heading to Tallaght was then incorrectly directed into the same space.

I don't know if contact was made between the two tram, when I was there a there was a meter of two between them:

foggy_lad

monument wrote: »

A Luas tram -- set for the Heuston to Connolly service -- was parked at middle platform, a tram heading to Tallaght was then incorrectly directed into the same space.

I don't know if contact was made between the two tram, when I was there a there was a meter of two between them:

another human error incident like the o'connell street incident?

KC61

Basically the third platform at Heuston is now in regular use all day for Connolly-Heuston workings. It would appear that the driver of the Point-Tallaght tram forgot to check that the points were set correctly (the driver sets them as he approaches the junction) and went into the terminal platform, where there already was a tram stabled.

I don't think that the trams collided, it is just quite difficult to reposition the trams in these circumstances given signalling regulations.

AlekSmart

I was one of many Luas customers unceremoniously turfed off a Point bound tram at Blackhorse in the immediate aftermath of this "Incident".

The driver of my tram did make a few PA announcements concerning the situation and had to endure quite some blank stares as folks simply refused to accept Veolia Irl`s invitation to take in the flaura and fauna of Bluebell and Inchicore whilst awaiting one of the many Bus Atha Cliath services.

What really did surprise me was how little information the driver was recieving...all his controller was telling him was there was an "Incident" and the service was not going to resume "anytime soon".

The RPA really should have incorporated a few more switchback points on this system,to enhance flexibility and cater for just this type of occurence.

Tallaght bound trams operating only to Smithfield.
Point bound operating to Blackhorse.

That`s a very BIG bit in the middle left to fume and curse in the cold night air.....

As for me......a short walk through Drimnagh brought me to a 123 Bus and a fast trouble free entry to the metropolis !!

foggy_lad

KC61 wrote: »

Basically the third platform at Heuston is now in regular use all day for Connolly-Heuston workings. It would appear that the driver of the Point-Tallaght tram forgot to check that the points were set correctly (the driver sets them as he approaches the junction) and went into the terminal platform, where there already was a tram stabled.

I don't think that the trams collided, it is just quite difficult to reposition the trams in these circumstances given signalling regulations.

imagine if two loaded trams had collided though it is astonishing that the switching is left to the drivers and such a mistake was made!! also do veolia think that putting a small sign on a pole at the bridge is going to help when the driver was not able to notice from all the instruments in fromt of him/her that the tram was heading along the wrong track?

KC61

foggy_lad wrote: »

imagine if two loaded trams had collided though it is astonishing that the switching is left to the drivers and such a mistake was made!! also do veolia think that putting a small sign on a pole at the bridge is going to help when the driver was not able to notice from all the instruments in fromt of him/her that the tram was heading along the wrong track?

Well I assume he did notice once the tram went across the points - but at that stage it would be too late to do anything about it. He would have applied the emergency brake and that would appear to be what happened as from the photos above.

KC61

AlekSmart wrote: »

I was one of many Luas customers unceremoniously turfed off a Point bound tram at Blackhorse in the immediate aftermath of this "Incident".

The driver of my tram did make a few PA announcements concerning the situation and had to endure quite some blank stares as folks simply refused to accept Veolia Irl`s invitation to take in the flaura and fauna of Bluebell and Inchicore whilst awaiting one of the many Bus Atha Cliath services.

What really did surprise me was how little information the driver was recieving...all his controller was telling him was there was an "Incident" and the service was not going to resume "anytime soon".

The RPA really should have incorporated a few more switchback points on this system,to enhance flexibility and cater for just this type of occurence.

Tallaght bound trams operating only to Smithfield.
Point bound operating to Blackhorse.

That`s a very BIG bit in the middle left to fume and curse in the cold night air.....

As for me......a short walk through Drimnagh brought me to a 123 Bus and a fast trouble free entry to the metropolis !!

I would guess that the second tram was fouling the crossover - hence no trams could get through going towards Tallaght. It would make no difference how many crossovers there were in those circumstances.

G_R

LUAS had a bad night that night. I too was on a tram from the Red Cow to the Point and got thrown off at Black Horse. I got the bus into town and that was grand.

Then i went to get on another tram in abbey st to finish the journey to the o2. There was announcements saying that full tram services had resumed it was going to be 10/15 mins late while they got back up to a full schedule. When it got there we got on. There was easily 300 people on the tram so it was pretty squashed. When the tram got passed Busarus is just stopped, the power went. We werent allowed off for 20 mins while the driver tried to fix the problem but when he was unsuccessful he let us off via the single door at the top. We then had to walk up to the o2. Not a good night for LUAS in general:D

it was alright coming back though

markpb

I spotted two trams sitting outside LaTouch house on Saturday evening, I guess one was dannym08's one. They were linking the two together and later on they used one to tow the other towards the Point. Service resumed on the red line about half an hour later (8.30pm). I don't know if it's related to the problem at Heuston though.

KC61 wrote: »

It would appear that the driver of the Point-Tallaght tram forgot to check that the points were set correctly (the driver sets them as he approaches the junction) and went into the terminal platform, where there already was a tram stabled.

Surely the points are centrally controlled and not manually set by the drivers?

L1011

markpb wrote: »

Surely the points are centrally controlled and not manually set by the drivers?

Nearly sure they're not centrally controlled. The Luas's are basically very high capacity buses on tracks, really. The driver controls all movement.

L1011

KC61 wrote: »

I would guess that the second tram was fouling the crossover - hence no trams could get through going towards Tallaght. It would make no difference how many crossovers there were in those circumstances.

He may have been suggesting that extra switchovers would have let them run to James' and Museum from each end, leaving a (just about) walkable gap...

Not sure theres enough space for that at James' mind!

dowlingm

Special work is expensive from what I hear so you don't want to simply put crossovers everywhere - plus it's just another thing that can break. At least they can be remotely operated - in Toronto you often see a driver get out with a yoke like a crowbar to manually change points when taking an infrequently used turn, then drive the vehicle around the corner, stop again and change it back. Best part? Downtown Toronto streetcars run almost entirely in general traffic, so everything behind him is basically held up.

KC61

markpb wrote: »

Surely the points are centrally controlled and not manually set by the drivers?

No they are set by the drivers.

foggy_lad

dowlingm wrote: »

Special work is expensive from what I hear so you don't want to simply put crossovers everywhere - plus it's just another thing that can break. At least they can be remotely operated - in Toronto you often see a driver get out with a yoke like a crowbar to manually change points when taking an infrequently used turn, then drive the vehicle around the corner, stop again and change it back. Best part? Downtown Toronto streetcars run almost entirely in general traffic, so everything behind him is basically held up.

would this be what the long red bar in the drivers cabins on the luas is for?

markpb

MYOB wrote: »

Nearly sure they're not centrally controlled. The Luas's are basically very high capacity buses on tracks, really. The driver controls all movement.

Crazy, I never knew that! Is any of it centralised (ie luas to red cow to junction) or is each junction totally independent? I presume it's cheaper than full signaling or is there another reason?

BrianD

I notice that they have temporary signs on the approach to The Point terminus saying "Drivers, check your route"

foggy_lad

BrianD wrote: »

I notice that they have temporary signs on the approach to The Point terminus saying "Drivers, check your route"

they have the same signs put up at hueston since the "incident"

monument

foggy_lad wrote: »

they have the same signs put up at hueston since the "incident"

The "incident" at "hueston" is it?

bmaxi

KC61 wrote: »

No they are set by the drivers.

Is there a system to determine the driver is in full control of his faculties at any given time?

KC61

Is there a system that determines bus, car and train drivers are in full control of their faculties perpetually?

There are procedures to be followed, but like anything in life, the unplanned can happen.

bmaxi

KC61 wrote: »

Is there a system that determines bus, car and train drivers are in full control of their faculties perpetually?

There are procedures to be followed, but like anything in life, the unplanned can happen.

I asked the question because, as a former employee of Dublin City Services I know, from first hand, that many breaks were taken in The Palace, Fleet, Agnew's, Moran's etc. In the R and RA buses of the time, this largely went unnoticed.
The picture of a tram, hurtling down Steevens' hill with a driver half out of his head and having to make a decision to change points at the bottom is a frightening one, so let's not be flippant.

karlr42

bmaxi wrote: »

The picture of a tram, hurtling down Steevens' hill with a driver half out of his head and having to make a decision to change points at the bottom is a frightening one,

It's also completely alarmist.

KC61

bmaxi wrote: »

I asked the question because, as a former employee of Dublin City Services I know, from first hand, that many breaks were taken in The Palace, Fleet, Agnew's, Moran's etc. In the R and RA buses of the time, this largely went unnoticed.
The picture of a tram, hurtling down Steevens' hill with a driver half out of his head and having to make a decision to change points at the bottom is a frightening one, so let's not be flippant.

I am not being flippant. It didn't even enter my head that you would be suggesting that they could be drunk. That frankly is outrageous. I was referring to the possiblity that a driver might suffer a heart attack etc. as being possible in any circumstance.

Being under the influence of alcohol would be an immediately sackable offence.

To suggest that they even might be is to say the least disingenuous and unfair. Times have moved on in this country from 30/40 years ago and this sort of sensationalist nonsense is not helpful.

foggy_lad

karlr42 wrote: »

It's also completely alarmist.

so is driving a tram out into the path of a bus

L1011

Veoila do drink and drug testing on drivers.

I would assume the tram has a 'dead mans handle' which stops it if input is stopped.

bmaxi

KC61 wrote: »

I am not being flippant. It didn't even enter my head that you would be suggesting that they could be drunk. That frankly is outrageous. I was referring to the possiblity that a driver might suffer a heart attack etc. as being possible in any circumstance.

Being under the influence of alcohol would be an immediately sackable offence.

To suggest that they even might be is to say the least disingenuous and unfair. Times have moved on in this country from 30/40 years ago and this sort of sensationalist nonsense is not helpful.

MYOB was able to give a simple straight answer to a simple straight question.
Being under the influence of alcohol was a sackable offence in my time too, didn't stop it though.
I wonder where this place the country has moved on to is, it's not away from the drink if that's what you mean.
If you consider that two full laden trams is almost equivalent to two jumbo jets, then I don't think enquiring if a system is in place to ascertain if a driver is fit to drive is alarmist or sensationalist.